They have...Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
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They have...Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
I think I just got Jedi mind tricked.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
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Where are you getting that?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
Please use your logic. neither black nor white are likely to be murderers. Stats will bear out for any violent crime. If you have a predetermined conclusion you can use the stat black people are twice as likely to commit murder as white people (1 in 10,000 vs 1 in 20,000). But when you actually understand risk you can be way more appropriate and say, neither white nor black people are likely to murder you.
(And just because neither group is likely to murder you doesn't mean that the 15 - 20K murders each year are not important. That is also not logical, bordering on absurd)
I know you won't back down from your position. Not your style. But it's a dumb position.
How? What am I doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
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You cannot believe that the US has a gun death/ problem so much so that you would change our constitutional rights (2A) but simultaneously believe a small portion of the population (roughly 3-5%) committing over half of those murders is of no concern. It should be a huge concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by flips333
Logically, I know it’s unlikely a black person is going to harm me. That’s based on the statistics involving murders among the same race. I’m much more likely to be killed by a white person than I am a black person while I type this message from my toilet. That being said, if I’m in a high crime area, where violent crime in more prevalent, I’m on guard, looking for anyone who can endanger myself or my family. That’s not racism. That’s noticing a problem and being alert of it.
By denying the issue, you are holding black people to lower expectations. It’s the racism of low expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by ewing
The real issue as everyone has clearly pointed out is it isn't lower expectations, you simply have higher demands because you ignore all context/reality/facts to push the narrative. Once you acknowledge the starting point/history in this country leading to the current system your argument falls apart. You are saying let's ignore all circumstances/systematic issues/history that got us here and justify stereotyping groups as dangerous based on extremely low percentages when convenient.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
You actively ignore this to call others racist because they don't assume the worst of a group based on race or compare a human race to a weapon repeatedly. That isn't their racism inserting itself, it's yours.
Holding the expectation that people should not kill each other is not higher expectations. It’s supporting rule of law. Also, racism does not lead to higher murder rates. Was systemic racism worse or better in the 1940s and 1950 than in the 2000s? Hopefully, you believe it was worse. Than why is the murder rate among young black males higher in the 2000s?Quote:
Originally Posted by mngopher35
No one said that shouldn't be the expectation for people and I think it has clearly been pointed out an extremely large % of black people aren't doing that...Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...than-free.html
Now not best type of media but they use statistics like you are trying it seems and how about that, jail is safer than our streets. It's almost like when people are not actually free their ability to harm others might be lessened due to some system in place at the time. Does this mean people in jail are better than those not? What is the point here anyways?Quote:
The overall murder rate in Washington in 2011 was 17.5 per 100,000, which means free people in the nation’s capital are more than five times more likely to be murdered than inmates. Before you flee the district, though, keep in mind that local jails boast a lower murder rate than most places. Nationwide, there were 4.7 murders per 100,000 people in 2011, making local jails and state prisons safer than the average American town.
Now if you want to get into issues since the 1940's/50's you would have to respond to multiple things mentioned previously. War on drugs and stop and frisk for starters. Via the creation or application of laws like this it can be used to attack, imprison, break up families and more in order to continually hold back certain demographics.
https://www.drugpolicy.org/press-rel...-go-after-anti
So when you have government actively searching to make people into criminals and flooding the streets like this of course there can be more conflict too.Quote:
“You want to know what this was really all about,” Ehrlichman, who died in 1999, said, referring to Nixon’s declaration of war on drugs. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying. We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
Then you mention poor people often have similar issues in general. Well what if we used redlining and our housing/suburbs to in many ways still have segregated areas and not allow as much access.
https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...n-segregation/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/u...r-decades.html
Now much of this has been covered before and I think last time without links you just left me without response. At some point though you need to answer this or just admit you are ignoring all of it to keep pushing this racist narrative.
What is the issue, when did I deny it, and what expectation am I holding black peoples to?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
I said was murder is bad. If anything I think that suggests I expect people not to murder.
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Then you don’t believe the US has a problem with high gun violence/murder?Quote:
Originally Posted by mngopher35
What do you mean by that, it doesn't seem to address anything I said nor am I sure in what way you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
If you are asking do I think we should generally assume a person (of any race) isn't a murder and stereotype them of course, most people won't kill or attack you with a gun. If you mean are there ways we could potentially limit murder/violence by guns with proper policy and looking at other countries around the world seeing our being a higher number in comparison that's a completely different topic though.
Like if you are wondering my thoughts on gun control Joey it isn't take all guns away. It isn't that most gun owners are bad. It is that a gun is a tool that can be used to kill many people quickly, closer to a bomb than a human or anything related to this scenario. Somewhere between that and a car probably makes sense if you want an idea of the level of danger I see given the benefits of use (cars are extremely useful to most on a daily basis, bombs not so much and guns in between). I think we arguably have more regulation on driving a car right now though (license/testing along with ability to track each with licence plates/rules on road etc). I think we need a much more comprehensive approach to a dangerous weapon like we do with a car (and even moreso given where it falls in danger/usefulness) but it isn't like I am saying assume all people with a gun are bad or most guns will kill you either.
It is just a basic policy approach we take towards many "tools" in this country. They are not people though so it is a different topic completely than the main points here despite you regularly bringing it up.
But only a tiny number of Americans kill someone with a gun. Why the need for more laws to maybe (not even definitely) deter a tiny number of Americans. Shouldn’t the majority of Americans be free to exercise a constitutional right? Furthermore, do you think black people will be able to purchase a firearm legally? I mean, if they don’t have an ID how can they?Quote:
Originally Posted by mngopher35
Ya, that's why I don't think anyone with a gun is a bad person just like black people aren't etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyc77
Why should we have regulation against any weapon or tool? I am not saying take away their constitutional rights, I am saying have better regulation to make sure it continues for the long haul. I am basically saying treat guns like a weapon or tool as opposed to a person, do you actually disagree with this?
We should make I.D. free to the public and it would help solve multiple I.D. issues.