This is why they kneel

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Originally Posted by ewing

You are insane

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And willfully ignorant. He keeps repeating that Liberals are vague in what they want but they've been abundantly clear they want a $15 minimum wage. It's more of his paranoia that if he compromises or agrees with a Liberal he'll become one.

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Originally Posted by valade16

You keep saying this and it isn't true. They are very clearly asking for a $15 minimum wage. You can take exception to that number, but you cannot argue they have not been specific in their demand, especially because you (and Republicans in general) have not given a concrete amount themselves.

It is especially galling you accuse liberals of only being able to speak in vague terms when your entire argument here has been against some vague "they".

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You yourself said $15 is too high. $15 would kill many small businesses. Why not $20? $25? Of course there’s a limit to it and $15 isn’t close to doable. In negotiating, there is amount the opposing side shouldn’t even consider. Everyone knows a car salesman will negotiate. But if the dealer is asking $25,000 and I counter with $1. Will they entertain that offer? Of course not. This is extremely similar.

Politicians gain support/power by being exactly supportive of individuals who are angry. Anything less is considered against them. This use to be true of the religious right. For years, conservative politicians played on this. Being against gay rights and against abortion. Now liberal politicians use racism and the wage gap as their calling cards. It’s not difficult.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

No one who is successful is racist? :laugh2:

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Lol, the president of the US is a racist, I'd say that pretty much tops the successful chart.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

What? You most certainly can. You can educate people. You can teach empathy and compassion.

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Even if you only believe in individual racism and not systemic racism, there's a black guy that has been going to KKK rallies and getting people to disavow them and their racist ways.

He's wrong on every level. He just doesn't want to combat racism.

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

You yourself said $15 is too high. $15 would kill many small businesses. Why not $20? $25? Of course there’s a limit to it and $15 isn’t close to doable. In negotiating, there is amount the opposing side shouldn’t even consider. Everyone knows a car salesman will negotiate. But if the dealer is asking $25,000 and I counter with $1. Will they entertain that offer? Of course not. This is extremely similar.

Politicians gain support/power by being exactly supportive of individuals who are angry. Anything less is considered against them. This use to be true of the religious right. For years, conservative politicians played on this. Being against gay rights and against abortion. Now liberal politicians use racism and the wage gap as their calling cards. It’s not difficult.

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I did, but you accused them of being vague in their desires. They are not being vague. They want $15. You can disagree, but you can't claim they're being vague.

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

You yourself said $15 is too high. $15 would kill many small businesses. Why not $20? $25? Of course there’s a limit to it and $15 isn’t close to doable. In negotiating, there is amount the opposing side shouldn’t even consider. Everyone knows a car salesman will negotiate. But if the dealer is asking $25,000 and I counter with $1. Will they entertain that offer? Of course not. This is extremely similar.

Politicians gain support/power by being exactly supportive of individuals who are angry. Anything less is considered against them. This use to be true of the religious right. For years, conservative politicians played on this. Being against gay rights and against abortion. Now liberal politicians use racism and the wage gap as their calling cards. It’s not difficult.

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Here's a question for you (since we went through the same thing here a few years ago, and made the change by raising min wage to $14).

Do you really want to support a business whose model relies on keeping it's employees in poverty?

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

That's because living wage varies from place to place. What they should do, is do like Canada does where it's up to the provincial gov instead of the feds. Living wage in Ontario is much higher than New Brunswick. It's really not complicated. Or you can even have the federal government make it for each region and have different amounts for each. And that information is actually very easy to find.

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But define what “livable” means? Does that include cell phone plan? Internet? Cable tv? Car payment? Auto insurance? For most it defines much more than it use to...

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Originally Posted by valade16

Even if you only believe in individual racism and not systemic racism, there's a black guy that has been going to KKK rallies and getting people to disavow them and their racist ways.

He's wrong on every level. He just doesn't want to combat racism.

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Oh I agree. I think we've all noticed a change on some levels in the past 20-30 years already.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

Here's a question for you (since we went through the same thing here a few years ago, and made the change by raising min wage to $14).

Do you really want to support a business whose model relies on keeping it's employees in poverty?

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Companies should be able to set their wages at whatever they want. If their wages are keeping their employees in poverty, people shouldn’t work for them. Working for a company is a choice. It’s not mandatory.

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

But define what “livable” means? Does that include cell phone plan? Internet? Cable tv? Car payment? Auto insurance? For most it defines much more than it use to...

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Even if it didn't include any of those things, do you think $7.25 an hour is a livable wage for just food, transportation, clothing, groceries, etc.?

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

Companies should be able to set their wages at whatever they want. If their wages are keeping their employees in poverty, people shouldn’t work for them. Working for a company is a choice. It’s not mandatory.

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So would it be fair to say that not only are you against raising the minimum wage, you want to abolish it?

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Originally Posted by valade16

I did, but you accused them of being vague in their desires. They are not being vague. They want $15. You can disagree, but you can't claim they're being vague.

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Protestors aren’t being vague. They are being unrealistic. Politicians who support them are vague.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

No one who is successful is racist? :laugh2:

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No. Not in this century. It’s impossible.

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

But define what “livable” means? Does that include cell phone plan? Internet? Cable tv? Car payment? Auto insurance? For most it defines much more than it use to...

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Besides cable TV which is not an essential for people to have today? I mean sure if you are living in a major metropolitan area you might not need a car... but then your rent is way higher. Auto insurance is mandatory most places now... and should be. Cell phone and the internet? Do you not think these are the bare minimum today?

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

But define what “livable” means? Does that include cell phone plan? Internet? Cable tv? Car payment? Auto insurance? For most it defines much more than it use to...

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Again, it varies from place to place. In my province, the list is easily accessible.

Food, clothing, shelter, child care, transportation, medical expenses, recreation and a modest vacation.

It does not include home ownership, retirement savings, debt repayment, savings for a child's education, "anything other than the smallest cushion for emergencies"

https://www.ontariolivingwage.ca/wha...he_living_wage

No home phone, no cell phone, no cable tv, etc. Those are not necessities of life.

Just because you don't know what the definition means and think it's vague, doesn't mean that it is, it just means you haven't educated yourself about it.