This is why they kneel

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Originally Posted by valade16

So you want to honor Robert E Lee so badly, but also you don’t give a **** what he said? Sounds like you don’t care about Robert E Lee at all, you just care about his statues.

How do I know? Because historians studied them:

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/54426...emacist-future

Did you know the vast majority of monuments were erected when they were enacting Jim Crow Laws and during the 50’s/60’s. Isn’t it odd the only time people wanted to properly honor confederate s was during times of black rights/oppression movements?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tow...ate-monuments/

Did you know that 35 monuments to confederates were built in North Carolina since 2000? If they can build monuments to them, why can’t people take down monuments?


Also, just an FYI, it’s not hard to look for racism when it comes to the confederacy, whose Vice President literally said the foundations of the confederacy rest on the idea the negro is not equal to the white man.

The problem isn’t that we look for racism everywhere, it’s that you think it doesn’t exist. You think racism against white people is worse today than racism against black people. Anytime someone says something is racist you’re against it. I doubt you believe there has been a single instance of racism since 2000.

We are not the religious right, you’re literally the right, and your religious. How can I be the religious right when I’m neither right nor religious and you are both? What a hypocrite lol

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For starters, I’m not religious at all. If I have to describe my thoughts on religion, it’s agnostic. Because atheism is just another religion. The reason you are the new religious right is because you believe your morality is superior to others. You look for the “sins” of others and feel the need to squash them. Remember when Janet Jackson accidentally showed a boob on tv? The religious right were there to tell us how we should feel about it. This is no different than the modern SJWs. They want to cancel anything that doesn’t fit their modern day “morality.” I may not disagree with their morality, just the plight to push it on others. You are basically Jehovah Witnesses showing up at my door on a Saturday afternoon. You are not needed.

By historians do you mean “people who study history with my modern day morality?” Historians are mostly just people with opinions. The same ones who want to go on about Christopher Columbus and the like. Times were different and I’m sure some who wanted to erect statues had what we would consider to be racist beliefs. But again, times were different. I mean we were given the civil rights act by an extremely racist person in Lyndon Johnson. Should we abolish the civil rights act since a racist signed it into law? I’m sure if we studied Lincoln we would consider him racist as well, should we abolish the 13th amendment? That’s the part of history you and others don’t seem to understand, it’s complicated. No one person is either all good or all bad.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

I could be wrong, but I think he's saying similar to what I am....hearing Black Lives Matter can strike you like they're looking to elevate themselves beyond equal status, instead of to it.

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Nope not all. Black lives are every bit as important to the vast majority of Americans as white Asian or Hispanic. What I'm saying is that by stating it... you are making the claim that there is a % of the population who believe that black lives don't matter. by stating it, youre saying that if I don't agree with you on your political persuasion, then I don't believe that black lives matter.

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Originally Posted by The20thK

If someone insinuated that I didn't believe water was wet...id laugh at them. Like I laugh at the insulation that anyone believes that black lives don't matter. No one is upset at the claim... theyre upset with what the claim insinuates.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

I could be wrong, but I think he's saying similar to what I am....hearing Black Lives Matter can strike you like they're looking to elevate themselves beyond equal status, instead of to it.

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In response to both these posts: any insinuation that saying Black Lives Matter means you don’t believe that or that they are trying to say Black Lives Matter more is entirely on you. If you’re insinuating, that’s a personal problem.

If someone tells you The Godfather was a good movie do you instantly assume they’re insinuating you don’t think it is? I completely reject the notion that the reason you don’t want to follow them is because you agree with them but are insulted that you perceive they don’t agree.

If you’d agree with them you’d just... agree with them. I’ve never seen a sports fan say “I am a fan of the Yankees but the reason I oppose Yankees fans is because one asked if I was a Yankees fan and to me that insinuates they don’t think I am so now I’m not gonna agree with something I agree with”

It’s just absurd logic

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Originally Posted by valade16

In response to both these posts: any insinuation that saying Black Lives Matter means you don’t believe that or that they are trying to say Black Lives Matter more is entirely on you. If you’re insinuating, that’s a personal problem.

If someone tells you The Godfather was a good movie do you instantly assume they’re insinuating you don’t think it is? I completely reject the notion that the reason you don’t want to follow them is because you agree with them but are insulted that you perceive they don’t agree.

If you’d agree with them you’d just... agree with them. I’ve never seen a sports fan say “I am a fan of the Yankees but the reason I oppose Yankees fans is because one asked if I was a Yankees fan and to me that insinuates they don’t think I am so now I’m not gonna agree with something I agree with”

It’s just absurd logic

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That's not even remotely close to a good analogy. As a matter of fact... its horrible. it doesn't even make sense.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, is against black lives. I think BLM is a horrible organization... but not because black lives don't matter.

BLM was born on a false lie that black people are over-represented in police brutality cases.

They're not. They are actually under-represented for the amount of police interactions they have.

I don't say any of that to justify police brutality. The taking of ANY life isn't something we should take lightly. But to claim that black people have been especially victimized is false and cant be proven with any kind of serious data.

Not trying to deflect or diminish, but saw this video again today and it's pretty shocking how cavalier the police are, but in some ways even more how the paramedics administer a sedative without even checking on him at all. Then when they get him moved they are just taking their time it seems.

https://youtu.be/_c-E_i8Q5G0

I know detachment is normal for people who deal with trauma but when the detachment get this far it's inhuman. May need to have a maximum street career life to keep people from getting to this point, but none of these guys looked all that old. I know my cop and paramedic and military friends all have dark senses of humor, joking about this kind of stuff.

At this point, what's absurd is that we're still debating it when we're all basically on the same page...we all know black lives matter as much as any other...

A stickler in that regard is...a good friend of mine is native...and while she knows blacks have been mistreated for decades, she only knows that by what she's read or seen on TV because in these parts (and even more so hers) there are basically no blacks in her daily life.....but she sees firsthand HER people mistreated.

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

For starters, I’m not religious at all. If I have to describe my thoughts on religion, it’s agnostic. Because atheism is just another religion. The reason you are the new religious right is because you believe your morality is superior to others. You look for the “sins” of others and feel the need to squash them. Remember when Janet Jackson accidentally showed a boob on tv? The religious right were there to tell us how we should feel about it. This is no different than the modern SJWs. They want to cancel anything that doesn’t fit their modern day “morality.” I may not disagree with their morality, just the plight to push it on others. You are basically Jehovah Witnesses showing up at my door on a Saturday afternoon. You are not needed.

By historians do you mean “people who study history with my modern day morality?” Historians are mostly just people with opinions. The same ones who want to go on about Christopher Columbus and the like. Times were different and I’m sure some who wanted to erect statues had what we would consider to be racist beliefs. But again, times were different. I mean we were given the civil rights act by an extremely racist person in Lyndon Johnson. Should we abolish the civil rights act since a racist signed it into law? I’m sure if we studied Lincoln we would consider him racist as well, should we abolish the 13th amendment? That’s the part of history you and others don’t seem to understand, it’s complicated. No one person is either all good or all bad.

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It’s cute how anytime you start getting destroyed on the points you abandon them and make it some overarching philosophical point.

I’m not talking about canceling anything but taking down confederate monuments. But you don’t have a valid argument so now it’s talking about canceling things nobody is talking about canceling. The fact you are fighting tooth and nail to keep these statues tells me you definitely want them to stay. The question is, why?

By historians I mean historians. I should have known you, having no respect for education, would essentially trivialize their expertise. But nevertheless, let’s disregard them and focus on the facts. Times were different. Explain how the times were different in the 1910’s and 1960’s where they wanted to build a bunch of statues to civil war vets from a war 50-100 years ago? Why do you think they suddenly decided after all those years to build the statues?

Of course, that question will go unanswered just as my “if it’s OK to build statues of confederates today as North Carolina did in erecting 35 statues since 2000, why is it not ok to take them down?”

Here’s some other questions you won’t answer: if history is always complicated and no person (or cause) is good or bad, what do you say to the US taking down statues of Saddam or Hitler when we occupied Germany and Iraq? Should we have left those up? What is the difference?

It’s funny whenever I see you guys resort to “worst case scenario” like if we tear down a statue of a confederate we will be tearing down statues of Lincoln or repealing amendments. As John Oliver says whenever some idiot asks “but where does it stop” the answer is “SOMEWHERE”.

Should we make murder illegal? No because where does it stop? If we make murder illegal the. Eventually everything will be illegal so we can’t make anything illegal. It’s the logic of an infant.

For instance, I’m smart enough to look at each side through the lens of history, specifically even at the time the South was disgusting for wanting slavery. You act like everyone wanted slavery back then, but so many people didn’t want it they literally went to war over it. Not to mention much of the rest of the western world had abolished it by that point.

I am smart enough to realize that tearing down a statue of a side trying to preserve slavery doesn’t mean we have to tear down statues to MLK. Are you smart enough to realize that? Or do we have to keep everything exactly as it is because your side can’t comprehend degrees of thought?

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Originally Posted by Scoots

Not trying to deflect or diminish, but saw this video again today and it's pretty shocking how cavalier the police are, but in some ways even more how the paramedics administer a sedative without even checking on him at all. Then when they get him moved they are just taking their time it seems.

https://youtu.be/_c-E_i8Q5G0

I know detachment is normal for people who deal with trauma but when the detachment get this far it's inhuman. May need to have a maximum street career life to keep people from getting to this point, but none of these guys looked all that old. I know my cop and paramedic and military friends all have dark senses of humor, joking about this kind of stuff.

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That whole scene from beginning to end was wrong on all kinds of levels. That's coming from a healthcare worker who sees death almost daily.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

At this point, what's absurd is that we're still debating it when we're all basically on the same page...we all know black lives matter as much as any other...

A stickler in that regard is...a good friend of mine is native...and while she knows blacks have been mistreated for decades, she only knows that by what she's read or seen on TV because in these parts (and even more so hers) there are basically no blacks in her daily life.....but she sees firsthand HER people mistreated.

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So you're saying that the only way "she knows" is because of what she's seen on tv? Interesting right?

For the record... I have no problem with taking down monuments or renaming military installations.

My only worry is going to far with it (some people will, some will not) but do we then say that we have to take down GW statues or Jefferson statues? I hope it wouldn't come to that but the far left has a way of dragging the moderate left their way.

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Originally Posted by valade16

Do Joey and Sluggo seriously think, given their views and opposition to black causes today, that they’d actually have been on the side of black rights if they’re ere born during the civil war? Or during Jim Crow? Or the civil rights movement? Like, they oppose all black issues now but back then they’d have totally pulled a 180?

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Well I was raised near Philadelphia so yes, I would have been on the side of anti slavery during the civil war. The civil war was as much about were you lived than anything else. People didn’t “choose sides” based on morality

I’ve also said this before but I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood. Martin Luther King lived in the same area for a few years and he was honored often. Ive watched or participated in many events doing so.

I know you need to feel superior to others. I know you believe not everyone shares your exact morality so you must help them repent. But as I said previously, you are not needed.

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Originally Posted by The20thK

That's not even remotely close to a good analogy. As a matter of fact... its horrible. it doesn't even make sense.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, is against black lives. I think BLM is a horrible organization... but not because black lives don't matter.

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First, literally no one is against black lives? Obviously you’ve never heard of the kkk. Your ignorance here tells me you’re probably Ignorant about most of this subject

Second, it’s a good analogy because obviously you have no counter. Can you name a single other instance where someone saying something made you feel they’re ere insinuating you didn’t believe it and got angry and decided even though you agree with them you were going to oppose them?

Third, you never answered my question; are you really arguing that the reason people disagree with BLM is because they agree with it?

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Originally Posted by valade16

It’s cute how anytime you start getting destroyed on the points you abandon them and make it some overarching philosophical point.

I’m not talking about canceling anything but taking down confederate monuments. But you don’t have a valid argument so now it’s talking about canceling things nobody is talking about canceling. The fact you are fighting tooth and nail to keep these statues tells me you definitely want them to stay. The question is, why?

By historians I mean historians. I should have known you, having no respect for education, would essentially trivialize their expertise. But nevertheless, let’s disregard them and focus on the facts. Times were different. Explain how the times were different in the 1910’s and 1960’s where they wanted to build a bunch of statues to civil war vets from a war 50-100 years ago? Why do you think they suddenly decided after all those years to build the statues?

Of course, that question will go unanswered just as my “if it’s OK to build statues of confederates today as North Carolina did in erecting 35 statues since 2000, why is it not ok to take them down?”

Here’s some other questions you won’t answer: if history is always complicated and no person (or cause) is good or bad, what do you say to the US taking down statues of Saddam or Hitler when we occupied Germany and Iraq? Should we have left those up? What is the difference?

It’s funny whenever I see you guys resort to “worst case scenario” like if we tear down a statue of a confederate we will be tearing down statues of Lincoln or repealing amendments. As John Oliver says whenever some idiot asks “but where does it stop” the answer is “SOMEWHERE”.

Should we make murder illegal? No because where does it stop? If we make murder illegal the. Eventually everything will be illegal so we can’t make anything illegal. It’s the logic of an infant.For instance, I’m smart enough to look at each side through the lens of history, specifically even at the time the South was disgusting for wanting slavery. You act like everyone wanted slavery back then, but so many people didn’t want it they literally went to war over it. Not to mention much of the rest of the western world had abolished it by that point.

I am smart enough to realize that tearing down a statue of a side trying to preserve slavery doesn’t mean we have to tear down statues to MLK. Are you smart enough to realize that? Or do we have to keep everything exactly as it is because your side can’t comprehend degrees of thought?

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You're really bad at this analogy thing... It makes it difficult to respond because it doesn't seem like you understand.

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Originally Posted by The20thK

BLM was born on a false lie that black people are over-represented in police brutality cases.

They're not. They are actually under-represented for the amount of police interactions they have.

I don't say any of that to justify police brutality. The taking of ANY life isn't something we should take lightly. But to claim that black people have been especially victimized is false and cant be proven with any kind of serious data.

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Do you think black people are discriminated against in this country?