Because across the board people consider it vastly more essential than other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by mngopher35
What is "valid reasoning"? Reasoning that your opinion aligns with?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Because across the board people consider it vastly more essential than other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by mngopher35
What is "valid reasoning"? Reasoning that your opinion aligns with?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
We can go without air conditioning and survive too. Should we ban AC use? This IS an airborne virus which requires proper ventilation after all...Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
You guys are essentially repeating that you don't find religion to be necessary, anf so you think that means it is subjectively not necessary. You see what's wrong with that, right?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
What makes religious service essential? How do people survive for decades without it, as I have? Am I in some medical danger that I was not aware?Quote:
Originally Posted by nastynice
Roads are not essential to survive, neither is travel, we've gone centuries without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
Should we shut it all down in the name of stopping covid? If not then I guess you need a better argument..
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Like anything more than just your opinion on what should happen/how it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by nastynice
There has to be legitimate reasoning they are essential but other similar businesses/events aren't. Proof of being singled out to harsher levels than similar things. Something. You thinking it should be a certain way isn't really valid reasoning for special treatment.
Driving a car on a road doesn't make anyone more likely to get COVID and I know damn well you know that. Is this the best argument you have?Quote:
Originally Posted by nastynice
Depends on what you are comparing it to, but religion is more essential than other business because vast amounts of people base their entire identity and outlook on life on it and lean on it since their childhood to a degree beyond what most other businesses do and a tradition beyond what other businesses bring.Quote:
Originally Posted by mngopher35
That is a legitimate reason.
So then what?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
People traveling to different places does.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
I know damn well you know this.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Obviously. We need a plan to restrict/open businesses as numbers go up and go down. It makes sense to do this by type/size of business based on need to do in person, ability to open at a reduced rate using safety protocols and if the service provided is life/death. I don’t want any business to have to close down. I down want any religious businesses to close down. I do believe places of worship can close during a pandemic if needed (as has been done for periods of time in some areas during surges in Covid number) without denying people the freedom of religion. I’m not looking to single places of worship out, I just want them treated like other businesses that can be done remotely, can be done at a reduced capacity and are not essential to be open short term. This does not mean they can’t continue work that is providing critical services to their members in the community, that should be deemed essential. This does not even mean they aren’t important. But if an area is closing down non-essential businesses for a period of time during a surge, in person worship should be shut down too. Maybe the problem is the nomenclature, maybe non-essential feels demeaning but it’s not my nomenclature it’s how businesses are classified.Quote:
Originally Posted by mngopher35
And despite what some are saying, there is no atheism agenda. We don’t hold meetings or go to atheist service. If there is an atheist political machine then I’m unaware of it and I’m certain is doesn’t have anywhere near the footprint of religious political machines. We are generally underrepresented in all areas of government and in fact not being religious or being the wrong religion makes you unelectable in most of the country. I generally keep it to myself because I don’t care what others believe and I have no interest in changing their minds.
There is a Christian agenda though. Plenty of money is spent to fortify or expand their political power. Plenty of money is spent to recruit new christians. There’s also a lot of complaining about being the victim although I’m not sure who the aggressor is in that scenario.
I don’t disagree agree with this and I don’t think it contradicts anything in the post that you quoted. I would like to ask you of those countless communities how many of them are the main source of connection and purpose for more people and have ritual gatherings that are central to there being? If they existed do you think they might get more consideration? We deemed liquor stores essential in NJ bc enough need it to get by. If they should be essential is a subjective discussion and debatableQuote:
Originally Posted by GasMan
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Most communities are that way. It’s a human thing not a religion thing. Most people need connections with others and seek them out through communities whether it’s religion/family/sports/hobbies/work/etc. Non-religious people aren’t any less social or in need of a sense of belonging.Quote:
Originally Posted by ewing
Liquor stores are deemed essential because for alcoholics they are essential. Going without alcohol outside a controlled setting could be lethal.
It’s obvious what your opinion is. You do not think they should be seen as essential. I don’t hold that opinion against you. I recognize that there is some subjectivity in how states have defined essential and that there is a case that can be made based on community benefit and health for places of worship to be grouped differently. I don’t think denying them that status is taking away the freedom of religion nor do I think that feeling they should have it is an invalid point if viewQuote:
Originally Posted by GasMan
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To be clear, I’m not arguing that religion isn’t essential. I fully believe that for many people religion is essential. My argument is only that public worship isn’t essential during a pandemic. We have so many other ways for people to connect and share experiences that when it is a public health issue, public worship does not rise to the level of food and health care.Quote:
Originally Posted by ewing
We are all sacrificing time in our communities because it is for the public benefit, I don’t see why religious communities should get a special benefit at an increased risk to us all.
Pages and pages of debate that literally come down to the same thing:
What category of business/organization should churches be placed in during a pandemic?
Quite obviously, the answer to that question is heavily skewed by your participation in it.
One side thinks a church is getting special treatment to be treated like a restaurant.
Part of this, too, is people see the bad examples of churches and think that is the norm. It isn't.
I guarantee you there are bad examples in virtually every category.
A liquor store isn't the same thing as a bar- I don't care whether it's deemed essential or not because the point of restrictions is to prevent spreading the virus and regarding businesses that means restricting gatherings, not business. People walk in and out of a liquor store indivicually, they gather in a bar. Yes, the same is true with a church, but I've consistently said churches should follow the same restrictions as other businesses...the argument here has been, same as which other businesses.
but again, you're talking 'special treatment' when that's not what I've argued, I've argued about the category a church should be put inQuote:
Originally Posted by GasMan
Food is essential, but I can get food without gathering in a restaurant....yet the capacaity limits in NY for a restaurant are less restrictive than that of a church....and the argument surrounding that always comes down to how to categorize the church.