COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Originally Posted by valade16

Notice I didn’t bring up that China had a massive increase in Flu during December (20 times normal yearly rates) as evidence they were covering up Covid or under reporting, because that is exactly the sort of inconsistencies you’d expect trying to identify a novel virus.

So yes, I understand the difference. But there’s a difference between mid diagnosing it as the flu because you don’t know, and knowing the number of infected and reporting a lower number.

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Generally speaking, why do we care so much about China underreporting or not? Like, yeah...it's bad. They should've been transparent. But then what? What's the takeaway message you're trying to make. Why should I care? Or anyone here care?

Genuine question. I perhaps am just ignorant. I haven't spent much time thinking about China.

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Originally Posted by ManRam

Generally speaking, why do we care so much about China underreporting or not? Like, yeah...it's bad. They should've been transparent. But then what? What's the takeaway message you're trying to make. Why should I care? Or anyone here care?

Genuine question. I perhaps am just ignorant. I haven't spent much time thinking about China.

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Same here.

Maybe because it deflects us from looking too deeply into our own situation. And it is a whole lot easier to argue about stuff you don’t really know anything about and can’t prove one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by ManRam

Generally speaking, why do we care so much about China underreporting or not? Like, yeah...it's bad. They should've been transparent. But then what? What's the takeaway message you're trying to make. Why should I care? Or anyone here care?

Genuine question. I perhaps am just ignorant. I haven't spent much time thinking about China.

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The takeaway is Nasty should stop acting so smug and all knowing about things for which he is literally wrong.

He mocked and laughed at everyone who said China was under reporting their numbers. Yet, everyone but him knew the truth.

I wouldn’t even be bringing this up except Nasty was so haughty and arrogant that we were all idiots despite the fact we were all right.

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Originally Posted by ManRam

Generally speaking, why do we care so much about China underreporting or not? Like, yeah...it's bad. They should've been transparent. But then what? What's the takeaway message you're trying to make. Why should I care? Or anyone here care?

Genuine question. I perhaps am just ignorant. I haven't spent much time thinking about China.

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Originally Posted by Crovash

Same here.

Maybe because it deflects us from looking too deeply into our own situation. And it is a whole lot easier to argue about stuff you don’t really know anything about and can’t prove one way or the other.

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It has nothing to do with blaming China/deflecting from America's inadequacies and everything to do with putting a clueless know-it-all in his place.

China’s obfuscation of the virus probably would have hindered the US’ response if we had competent leadership that was reacting based off information received from China.

But we had complete incompetence so China’s response was wholly irrelevant. Had China been completely transparent and honest from the beginning, our response still would have been an absolute catastrophe.

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Originally Posted by valade16

No, you’re not comprehending this is not the same thing. The US has reporting inconsistencies, under reporting, etc. but we did not have an actual number of cases or deaths and report a different number, Chinese officials did.

These are not normal inconsistencies of a miscount, this was they knew the count and gave a different number anyway.

It specifically said Wuhan officials intentionally under reported fearing punishment for high numbers, which is expected of authoritarian countries where the populace is afraid of government. It is exactly what happened in the USSR when Chernobyl blew, the plant managers immediately tried to downplay it and cover up its severity.

China was not nearly as forthcoming and helpful as you Believe. And that in no way excuses the US, we have had probably the worst Covid response of any nation on earth (like, legitimately the worst). But China downplayed and tried to cover Covid up and it was wrong.

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So if people in Wuhan are under reporting then that means the govt is purposefully lying? Doesn't that mean they lied to the govt too?

If someone here labels a car accident victim with covid as a covid death, that means the govt is purposefully lying?

This **** happens.

I know china downplayed the virus. I also know in January they realized it was beyond their control and they shot the flare gun for the whole world to see. This isnt me loving china or backing them up, it's just what happened.



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Originally Posted by nastynice

So if people in Wuhan are under reporting then that means the govt is purposefully lying? Doesn't that mean they lied to the govt too?

If someone here labels a car accident victim with covid as a covid death, that means the govt is purposefully lying?

This **** happens.

I know china downplayed the virus. I also know in January they realized it was beyond their control and they shot the flare gun for the whole world to see. This isnt me loving china or backing them up, it's just what happened.

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1. I did not say lying, I said under reporting

2. It was government officials who provided the false numbers

3. If someone labeled 3,000 car accidents a day as Covid when they were not that would be misrepresenting the number of Covid cases.

4. For all your talk of letting everyone know in January, they still waited days after they knew information to tell the world, and they were still misrepresenting their numbers all the way into March.

This is a you loving China thing. You keep acting like they were the greatest handlers of this disease anyone had ever seen. Your infatuation with China is bizarre.

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Originally Posted by valade16

1. I did not say lying, I said under reporting

2. It was government officials who provided the false numbers

3. If someone labeled 3,000 car accidents a day as Covid when they were not that would be misrepresenting the number of Covid cases.

4. For all your talk of letting everyone know in January, they still waited days after they knew information to tell the world, and they were still misrepresenting their numbers all the way into March.

This is a you loving China thing. You keep acting like they were the greatest handlers of this disease anyone had ever seen. Your infatuation with China is bizarre.

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We already know car accident deaths have been reported as covid. So I guess americas numbers are false too.

No, South Korea, Singapore, New Zealand, and Taiwan all had better response than China, and they are non authoritarian.

You think I have an infatuation with china because you have a very biased perspective. I see the world as one planet. You see it as us vs them. You dont recognize how similar us is to them.

Well, that's what we imported Hitlers propaganda scientists here for. Job well done.

You think I keep responding to you to show you I'm right. I'm not. Im responding to you because you still dont grasp some very basic concepts regarding statistical data sets and epidemics. I am trying to help you grasp these concepts regarding inaccurate data collection.

You're trying to make a molehill a mountain. Its not. Its just a molehill.

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OK. Didn't realize this was more personal. Fair enough. I am not active in this thread and jumped in late.

Have at it!!

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Originally Posted by nastynice

We already know car accident deaths have been reported as covid. So I guess americas numbers are false too.

No, South Korea, Singapore, New Zealand, and Taiwan all had better response than China, and they are non authoritarian.

You think I have an infatuation with china because you have a very biased perspective. I see the world as one planet. You see it as us vs them. You dont recognize how similar us is to them.

Well, that's what we imported Hitlers propaganda scientists here for. Job well done.

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No, I think you have an infatuation with China because you have an infatuation with China. Even when you tried to explain your view on China the tenor of your post can best be described as “fawning”.

It’s even funnier that you constantly talk about America’s propaganda and then blindly believe any and all Chinese propaganda.

You actually think is being factually correct about China under reporting their numbers is us succumbing to US propaganda but you not believing they were under reporting (and being wrong) simply because China said they weren’t is not being influenced by Chinese propaganda.

My biased perspective in this case is I think the US was literally the worst country on earth at handling Covid and no matter how China responded we still would have done terribly. Yes, that really sounds like a hard American bias and me trying to make it an us vs them thing :laugh2:

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Originally Posted by nastynice

You think I keep responding to you to show you I'm right. I'm not. Im responding to you because you still dont grasp some very basic concepts regarding statistical data sets and epidemics. I am trying to help you grasp these concepts regarding inaccurate data collection.

You're trying to make a molehill a mountain. Its not. Its just a molehill.

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You were the one who was wrong but we all don’t grasp the concepts that led to us being right and you being wrong?

If you are so smart on these concepts, why the **** were you wrong? Lol

And I think China under reporting their numbers is a molehill. I think you being wrong yet refusing to believe it and still acting like you are smarter than everyone else despite being wrong, is the Mountain.

Serious question, have you ever felt you were ever wrong or not the smartest person about a subject? I seriously doubt it.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

I didn't say you did, boy genius.

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maybe you're so busy trolling you don't even pay attention to what you do say.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

It's downright ****ing hilarious. At least Trump can count on Special to always be here championing him no matter what.

I can't imagine any scenario where all the people fed up with Trump would just abandon PSD in unison....but these guys? It's like someone flipped a switch or pulled the rug right out from underneath 'em.

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I'm not always championing him no matter what.

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Originally Posted by valade16

You were the one who was wrong but we all don’t grasp the concepts that led to us being right and you being wrong?

If you are so smart on these concepts, why the **** were you wrong? Lol

And I think China under reporting their numbers is a molehill. I think you being wrong yet refusing to believe it and still acting like you are smarter than everyone else despite being wrong, is the Mountain.

Serious question, have you ever felt you were ever wrong or not the smartest person about a subject? I seriously doubt it.

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Haha you're just honestly not comprehending.

China can have diff conflicting numbers, so can america, so can England, so can India. In the context of a pandemic, this doesn't mean much. It doesn't mean much because in a pandemic the parameters are constantly changing.

Even the US can have diff data sets. You can break it down as "confirmed" cases, vs "highly suspicious", vs "low suspicious", there's a dozen diff number sets that can all be accurate.

China having diff data sets in of itself means nothing. There's a hundred easily believable legitimate reasons as to why that could happen. One set could have counted only positive test confirmed via pcr. One set could also include chest x ray diagnosis (which they later abandoned because surprise surprises, they soon learned it wasnt as accurate as they would like). One could have been strictly clinical diagnosis.

Do you get what Im saying? Do you see how that inconsistency in their numbers in of itself means nothing?

This is the point I am driving home to you.

I cam easily change US covid numbers significantly just by changing a few simple parameters of what constitutes a positive case. This doesn't mean America has just been lying about our numbers all along.

I'm not as smart as you regarding evolution. I'm not as smart as MRSpock, period. But when it comes to this pandemic conversation, I am clearly leagues beyond where you are. Bro, I've taken and passed the ****in USMLE. Do you know what that is? Obviously I'm league beyond you on this topic...

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Originally Posted by nastynice

Haha you're just honestly not comprehending.

China can have diff conflicting numbers, so can america, so can England, so can India. In the context of a pandemic, this doesn't mean much. It doesn't mean much because in a pandemic the parameters are constantly changing.

Even the US can have diff data sets. You can break it down as "confirmed" cases, vs "highly suspicious", vs "low suspicious", there's a dozen diff number sets that can all be accurate.

China having diff data sets in of itself means nothing. There's a hundred easily believable legitimate reasons as to why that could happen. One set could have counted only positive test confirmed via pcr. One set could also include chest x ray diagnosis (which they later abandoned because surprise surprises, they soon learned it wasnt as accurate as they would like). One could have been strictly clinical diagnosis.

Do you get what Im saying? Do you see how that inconsistency in their numbers in of itself means nothing?

This is the point I am driving home to you.

I cam easily change US covid numbers significantly just by changing a few simple parameters of what constitutes a positive case. This doesn't mean America has just been lying about our numbers all along.

I'm not as smart as you regarding evolution. I'm not as smart as MRSpock, period. But when it comes to this pandemic conversation, I am clearly leagues beyond where you are. Bro, I've taken and passed the ****in USMLE. Do you know what that is? Obviously I'm league beyond you on this topic...

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You claim I’m not comprehending and then regurgitate nonsense demonstrating you don’t understand what you’re talking about.

This was NOT a case of conflicting numbers. This wasn’t a case of two different parameters coming up with different amounts. This wasn’t them getting 2,800 cases confirmed via pcr and 5,900 from chest X-rays and deciding to use one number or the other.

This was them having only one number: 5,900 and then based on absolutely nothing medical or having to do with confirmed, suspicious, etc. reporting that number as 2,800.

This is not a case of inconsistency in different datasets. This is them saying a dataset is a number which it is not.


You don’t seem to want to believe that, hence your inability to comprehend (and then project and say it’s everyone else who doesn’t understand).

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Originally Posted by nastynice

So if people in Wuhan are under reporting then that means the govt is purposefully lying? Doesn't that mean they lied to the govt too?

If someone here labels a car accident victim with covid as a covid death, that means the govt is purposefully lying?

This **** happens.

I know china downplayed the virus. I also know in January they realized it was beyond their control and they shot the flare gun for the whole world to see. This isnt me loving china or backing them up, it's just what happened.



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The truth is that China intentionally released their manufactured virus onto the world intentionally. They were getting their *** kicked economically and had to do something to weaken the world around them.