How is saying all sides are wrong picking a side? They were all wrong. The left was wrong to come armed. The city was wrong for granting the permit. And (read this carefully), the Nazis/KKK were wrong just for existing.
I am not picking any side here.
"Let the nazis march everywhere!!" - Catman
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I guess this is where we disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
The "left", or whomever was counter protesting, had every right to defend themselves against being attacked about white supremacists. And yes, spreading hate speech at an armed rally is an attack.
OK Kenny, what makes you make a statement of that sort? Is my renounciation of the KKK and Nazis not strong enough for you? If not, what do you want me to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
Just so long as they file their paperwork appropriately. Because we have to be neutral towards Nazis!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
What part of "the city was wrong to grant the permit" did you miss, DB? Apparrently that passed you by.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
Another day of catman flailing around like a damned fool.
Great. Now that we can dispense with the neutrality stuff, you're still wrong in your judgment. This is what you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
First, let's deal with the city: The mayor, city council, city manager, and police chief all said they would only approve a permit for the rally if it was moved to a different park due to safety concerns they had.Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
The rally organizers sued the city, and a federal judge granted them an emergency injunction allowing them to use the park.
So, the city that you think shares "50% of the blame" for what happened actually tried to prevent it, as you said you would've done, and was ordered by a federal judge to allow it to go forward at that time and in that place.
Second, the counter-protesters: To start, you keep talking about "the left" as if left wing political organizations were the only ones taking part in counter-protests; they were not. Rather far from it, in fact.
A multi-denomination and interfaith group called Congregate Charlottesville called for a thousand faith leaders to attend.
Students and faculty of the Univeristy of Virginia.
Average, everyday citizens from Charlottesville.
People from Black Lives Matter.
And, of course, there were groups like Redneck Revolt and Antifa that were there as well.
The idea that all of these groups and people were, one, left wing, and two, all working together is obviously just not true. It seems strange to even assert that the only people protesting against the KKK and Nazis would be from the left, but maybe you have a worse view of everyone on the right than I do. Either way, many groups were there from many places, and the only real thing uniting them was showing that they oppose the message the rally was there to spread. If you'd like to argue that Jewish Rabbis and Buddhists monastics have the same politics and tactics as Antifa I'd be happy to hear it, but I think we both know that's not an argument you're going to make.
So the idea that there even was a united "left" there, much less that the counter-protesters as a whole bear 10% of the blame for what happened is as clearly wrong as blaming the city for issuing the permit was.
Lastly, the KKK, Nazis, and white nationalists. Somehow you decided to give the people that were there to spread hate and intolerance only 40% of the blame, which is astonishing on a few levels. The simple fact that they are accountable for the hate they spread and the actions they take in the name of that hate is apparently, in your mind, not quite as bad as... issuing a permit. But why would issuing a permit to them be bad if you can't even give them the majority of the blame for what happened? Not only did they literally murder people that day, the organizers were found liable by a federal jury for what happened, and order to pay $25 million in damages to counter-protesters that were there.
So a hate group holds a rally that leads to multiple injuries and someone dead, they're ordered to pay $25 million in damages and more than one are currently serving prison sentences... and you think they're second in the list of who deserves the blame for all of it? As I said, it's astonishing.Quote:
Still, the verdict was a clear rebuke of the defendants — a mix of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and Confederate sympathizers. They were found under Virginia law to have engaged in a conspiracy that led to injuries during the rally. The “Unite the Right” march began as a demonstration over the removal of a Confederate statue and led to the death of the counterprotester Heather Heyer, 32, when she was struck by a car driven by one of the defendants.
Also, while the rally in 2017 may have been bad, the counter-protests had an impact. Jason Kessler, who was one of the organizers of the first rally in 2017, tried to hold a second one on the anniversary, and the counter-protests basically stopped it before it even began.
They didn't stop it by ignoring them, they stopped it by overwhelming them and showing them that Charlottesville wouldn't tolerate another one.Quote:
After weeks of hype, white supremacists managed to muster just a couple of dozen supporters on Sunday in the nation’s capital for the first anniversary of their deadly rally in Charlottesville, Va., finding themselves greatly outnumbered by counterprotesters, police officers and representatives of the news media.
There's your "moral high ground."Quote:
WAMU's Carmel Delshad reported that hundreds of counterdemonstrators converged in Lafayette Square, the grassy, White House-adjacent park, to meet the white supremacists. As NPR's Tim Mak reported, the counterdemonstrators began gathering in the early afternoon as music played and speakers talked about the importance of their protest. NPR's Jeff Brady told NPR's All Things Considered that though he was in Lafayette Park for the demonstrators' speeches, it was impossible to hear them because of the overwhelming dominance of the counterdemonstrators.
Speaking of things that passed someone by.Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
"The left" didn't come armed.Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
It's crazy how much you talk about something you clearly know so little about.
catman's just going to "add one more thought and leave it". :laugh2:
If you confront the KKK and Nazis you are as bad as the KKK and Nazis. Pretty insane
Yep. Sorry but I'm never going to be tolerant of the intolerant. The KKK and Nazis can kiss the whitest part of my *** and anyone who in any way equivocates in stating the same can **** off like a KKK or Nazi member.Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by natepro
I'm glad they weren't allowed to hold another march in Charlottesville. They never should have been granted to permit to do so the first time.
I do not in any way support the KKK/Nazis. I do not in any way support ANTIFA or the decision by the city of Charlottesville (and subsequently the court) to allow the first march to take place.
The decision to allow the march was the worst part of the situation, hence 50% fault. The KKK/Nazis are wrong, regardless of where they are or what they do -- 40% fault. The leftist counter-protestors that brought weapons were wrong -- 10% fault.
All parties involved in this march were wrong.