COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men

At a time of urgency like this? Yes I did expect different. It’s bizarre that such an egomaniac has no interest in looking like a hero like our past presidents. He has golden opportunities to become a great president and chooses not to take them.

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But there is only one person he needs to think he's a great president and that person loves everything he does.

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Originally Posted by pierzynski4prez

i don't believe he has no interest or chooses to act this way. Choosing would imply that he could if he wanted.

I just don't think his personality is wired in any way to allow him to lead in a professional manner.

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this!

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Originally Posted by Crovash

True, but in things like epidemics, population density matters a great deal (obviously, one reason why with a population of 10 million NYC suffers far more than, say Georgia, which has the same population). So, the current per capita death rate in the US (22 per 100K) tells only a facet of the story. Likewise, there are also regional and local hot spots.

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Yeah very true. And in these projected increases over the next month it looks like they are based in the Midwest where it just hasn’t hit yet.


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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Do you actually believe anything that China says????

Built hospitals in two weeks…that happened here too. Field hospitals went up in a matter of days.

We ran out of masks and ventilators in two weeks…seems like there were several stories of China making and hoarding supplies while keeping info on the virus quiet. And the nature of our economy can work against us at times. No one want to buy items to store, it's costly. China couldn't care less about that. bThey do what they are told. There was also that story that one company (back in 2008 I believe) contracted to build ventilators are a cheap price than a competitor bought out the original company and cancelled the deal for the lower price. That wouldn't have happened in China. In our capitalist society, that is more common than many think. In an emergence situation, that may not work in society's favor.

I'm not saying that we couldn't have done a better job…we could have. We also could have done a worse job.

Some poster compared us to South Korea…my point is that that is ridiculous.

I also mentioned that the countries with high rates of contagion are pretty much the same countries that receive a lot of international travel. Not many people travel to Korea (none of you addressed this point). China had quite a few people moving about the world as they kept this quiet…think that may have had something to do with it.

With all that has happened, China is getting off this pretty easily.

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I know everyone likes the black and white approach with China but it’s not that simple.

Yes they are severely flawed in many areas, but we can’t discredit some truths.

We were late on resources. They specialize in manufacturing and have tons of resources. The reaction to build hospitals and move that quickly was great. They’re now studying results of all those treated and providing some valuable insight on patients who had more severe cases. Interesting notes on the effect of the gut microbiome and how this hit people, and it’s an area we’re still learning about.

I’m all about being tough on China as a global economic competitor and from many human rights and environmental failures. But we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

I just think there’s a lot to learn at this point. Like in Sweden where there was minimal tactics but they seem to have handled it well.

We really won’t know enough for another year at least.


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Originally Posted by Crovash

I would have to say the “thionking” is a good word to describe precisely what you do.

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Wow. Got me with that one.

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Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men

I know everyone likes the black and white approach with China but it’s not that simple.

Yes they are severely flawed in many areas, but we can’t discredit some truths.

We were late on resources. They specialize in manufacturing and have tons of resources. The reaction to build hospitals and move that quickly was great. They’re now studying results of all those treated and providing some valuable insight on patients who had more severe cases. Interesting notes on the effect of the gut microbiome and how this hit people, and it’s an area we’re still learning about.

I’m all about being tough on China as a global economic competitor and from many human rights and environmental failures. But we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

I just think there’s a lot to learn at this point. Like in Sweden where there was minimal tactics but they seem to have handled it well.

We really won’t know enough for another year at least.


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Bolded…probably true.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Bolded…probably true.

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Yeah that’s why all of this is frustrating. We’re at a time/culture where we demand instant gratification.

I think there are plenty of things to criticize Trumps administration on in this process and certainly his confusing and hurtful messaging, but his opposition runs too far with it and attacks things that are really unreasonable given how little we knew about this. Everything gets spun into this black v white battle and we get nowhere.

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Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men

Yeah that’s why all of this is frustrating. We’re at a time/culture where we demand instant gratification.

I think there are plenty of things to criticize Trumps administration on in this process and certainly his confusing and hurtful messaging, but his opposition runs too far with it and attacks things that are really unreasonable given how little we knew about this. Everything gets spun into this black v white battle and we get nowhere.

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I'll level with you.

The think that irritates me here is that it's a constant "Trump is wrong about everything." Every little thing and someone is compelled to post an "incriminating" video that is "further proof" of something or other. In the mind of most of the posters here Trump can never do anything right.

Is he an unpleasant, arrogant, egotistical prick…absolutely. He is also not wrong 100% of the time. Of all the president's I've witnessed, he is the one that comes across the most as always putting the US interests first. I don't think that fact can be disputed.

All too often here, people react to the event and pay little attention to the whys and wherefores. E.g the US pays far more than its share in the Paris Green Deal, the UN, Nato, the WHO. Why should we? Trump doesn't think we should and pulls us out or puts pressure on others. Do you really think he doesn't care about the environment or world health or Europe's defense? We were being played for suckers and he stepped in.

The Iran deal was a joke. Pallets of money going t them for basically nothing. The Iranians weren't going to stop nuclear research or producing a weapon. We were looking foolish on that.

Pulling out of the Russian nuclear deal allowed us to expand missile defenses in the far east to counter China…the real enemy here. We're losing the advantage there and now there is hope to catch up.

Trump is what he is (and as I have said numerous times, he was never my choice) but he always has the best interest of the US first and foremost. If it wasn't for the virus, things would be going pretty well right about now.

People need to look a little more deeply into what os really going on.

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Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men

Yeah that’s why all of this is frustrating. We’re at a time/culture where we demand instant gratification.

I think there are plenty of things to criticize Trumps administration on in this process and certainly his confusing and hurtful messaging, but his opposition runs too far with it and attacks things that are really unreasonable given how little we knew about this. Everything gets spun into this black v white battle and we get nowhere.

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We also have people taking "science" and mis-reporting and mis-representing it for sensational "news" that spreads and increases the panic. Fear sells.

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Originally Posted by flips333

Yes... you wanted to hit the dems with something that was bipartisan... I get it.

When you talk about who did a good job in the western world, don't forget about Germany. And Even though New zealand, Taiwan, and South Korea are out east it's not like they are third world nations.

If you think we did a good job. that's fine... but your justification is a little strange. Just because a whole bunch of people trip at the start of a race doesn't mean you did a good job because you fell too.

Beyond all of this we will not know how good anyone did untill we have an actual understanding of how many people were infected... Comparing France to Germany for example shows you why.

Germany has 167,007 cases. a rate of 2,009 permil with 6,993 deaths.

France has 132,967 cases a rate of 1,982 per mil with 25,531 deaths.

The likely explanation of that difference in death rate 4% to 19 % is the difference in testing capacity. So I'd save my judgement. Our death rate is way closer to germany than france.... germany is 4.1 we are 5.8 at this point... and that doesn't seem like a lot until you realize that's over 11,000 deaths.

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Germany either has a healthier population with fewer underlying conditions or there's a difference in reporting. They're not keeping a treatment secret from their neighbors.

There's no treatment for it. They put people in a bed and put them on a ventilator if need be. We never had the ventilator shortage that people warned of.

I'm not surprised that:

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...16?s=2048x2048

Got hit hard.

Sweden's approach was interesting. They decided to pretty much do nothing. Their officials basically said hey this is highly contagious, it's gonna be here for awhile, and we're fighting the inevitable. Express that opinion here in the US and you're called a murderer. Americans wanna hide inside their houses and blast the president throughout the summer.

Called a murderer? More like called an idiot....and rightfully so. Doing nothing was certainly not the answer for this country.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

Called a murderer? More like called an idiot....and rightfully so. Doing nothing was certainly not the answer for this country.

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I agree, not initially given the population density of some of our cities. We can do it now though.

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Originally Posted by fingerbang

Sweden's approach was interesting. They decided to pretty much do nothing. Their officials basically said hey this is highly contagious, it's gonna be here for awhile, and we're fighting the inevitable. Express that opinion here in the US and you're called a murderer. Americans wanna hide inside their houses and blast the president throughout the summer.

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I was listening to an official from Sweden talking the other day, I coulda sworn he said they basically took minimal measures right from the start, regarding social.distancing etc, and so they didnt have to go into lockdown.

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Originally Posted by fingerbang

I agree, not initially given the population density of some of our cities. We can do it now though.

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That is far from a fact.