COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Originally Posted by catman

If I had the answer, I would have won the Nobel Prize.
Here is a story you might want to read about misinformation and the source of the misinformation:
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...isinformation/

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I think this supports my point: people who are anti-vaccine were not going to listen to Biden no matter what. Blaming him for their unvaccinated status seems silly.

How many times did you refuse to answer my question about Ivermectin, Nate?
You are not in position to make a demand.
I will, however, give you this answer. It will be the only one you'll get on this question, that was a change from you original question.
"If a government official says anything in an official capacity, the leader of the government owns the statement."
As I said, this will be the answer that you will either accept or whine about for pages.
Now, is Ivermectin labeled for human use?

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Originally Posted by valade16

I think this supports my point: people who are anti-vaccine were not going to listen to Biden no matter what. Blaming him for their unvaccinated status seems silly.

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As I said, his statements are not doing any good.

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Originally Posted by catman

How many times did you refuse to answer my question about Ivermectin, Nate?
You are not in position to make a demand.
I will, however, give you this answer. It will be the only one you'll get on this question, that was a change from you original question.
"If a government official says anything in an official capacity, the leader of the government owns the statement."
As I said, this will be the answer that you will either accept or whine about for pages.
Now, is Ivermectin labeled for human use?

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So not anything a Democrat says, then, like you said here?

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Originally Posted by catman

Anything a Democrat says is, by extension, something that Biden approves of -- and no I'm not deflecting anything.

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I appreciate you agreeing that your initial statement was incorrect.

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Originally Posted by catman

As I said, his statements are not doing any good.

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I disagree, his supporters are 96% vaccinated. Seems those who listened to him all got vaccinated. If only every else did too we’d be at 96% vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by valade16

So all these people are not getting the vaccine because Biden called them dumb?

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People don’t respond well when they are called dumb for not doing something. Not saying people would have but calling them dumb and dividing the country over it doesn’t help things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by catman

How many times did you refuse to answer my question about Ivermectin, Nate?
You are not in position to make a demand.
I will, however, give you this answer. It will be the only one you'll get on this question, that was a change from you original question.
"If a government official says anything in an official capacity, the leader of the government owns the statement."
As I said, this will be the answer that you will either accept or whine about for pages.
Now, is Ivermectin labeled for human use?

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Ivermectin is a fantastic medicine...for what it's designed to do. It is not a good medicine for COVID. Chemotherapy is a great medicine as well. But that doesn't mean I would prescribe it for heartburn.

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Originally Posted by valade16

I disagree, his supporters are 96% vaccinated. Seems those who listened to him all got vaccinated. If only every else did too we’d be at 96% vaccinated.

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I agree that most Democrats are vaccinated, but I think 96% is a bit high.

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Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

Ivermectin is a fantastic medicine...for what it's designed to do. It is not a good medicine for COVID. Chemotherapy is a great medicine as well. But that doesn't mean I would prescribe it for heartburn.

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I agree on both counts. Ivermectin was trialed early in the pandemic because it has anti-inflammatory properties. It was found to be ineffective and the trials were discontinued.
I have said this previously and, unfortunately, had to say it again.

nvm

Per KFF, over 75% of the eligible people in the country have received at least one dose of vaccine.
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...ace-ethnicity/
from the article:
As of this week, federal data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show that 75.3% of the total population in the United States have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.

Later in the article, it states that 61% of whites are fully vaccinated, 55% of blacks, 62% of Hispanics and 83% of Asians are.
Nowhere does it come close saying that 96% of any group are vaccinated. I have to question the validity of the statement that 96% of Biden supporters are vaccinated.
Edit:
CDC data
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...min-rate-total

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Originally Posted by catman

Per KFF, over 75% of the eligible people in the country have received at least one dose of vaccine.
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...ace-ethnicity/
from the article:
As of this week, federal data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show that 75.3% of the total population in the United States have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.

Later in the article, it states that 61% of whites are fully vaccinated, 55% of blacks, 62% of Hispanics and 83% of Asians are.
Nowhere does it come close saying that 96% of any group are vaccinated. I have to question the validity of the statement that 96% of Biden supporters are vaccinated.
Edit:
CDC data
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...min-rate-total

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The Guardian says that 91% had one dose and Brookings says 90%.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vid-death-rate
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgo...and-ethnicity/

We were told early in the pandemic that herd immunity would be achieved if 75% of the population were to receive vaccinations. That prediction has been shown to have been false.
Many fully vaccinated people have died of Covid. Many more have been hospitalized.
And before anyone accuses me of being anti-vaxx, I have been a vocal proponent of vaccinations all along. This stance has not changed.

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Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

The Guardian says that 91% had one dose and Brookings says 90%.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vid-death-rate
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgo...and-ethnicity/

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Neither of those totals is 96%. I question the validity of Valade's claim.

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Originally Posted by catman

Neither of those totals is 96%. I question the validity of Valade's claim.

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You will notice that both articles are from at least a month ago. The numbers will only go in one direction (and that direction isn't down).

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Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

You will notice that both articles are from at least a month ago. The numbers will only go in one direction (and that direction isn't down).

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This is true, that the numbers won't go down, but the numbers from the CDC call these numbers into question. From the article above, Blacks are vaccinated at 55%, Whites at 61%, Hispanics at 62% and Asians at 83%. These figures are from 1/31/22.
As I said, before anyone accuses me of being anti-vaxx, I am not.

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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

People don’t respond well when they are called dumb for not doing something. Not saying people would have but calling them dumb and dividing the country over it doesn’t help things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yeah, if only everyone could stop being so insulting to those on the other side of the aisle....like you! :laugh2:

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Originally Posted by catman

This is true, that the numbers won't go down, but the numbers from the CDC call these numbers into question. From the article above, Blacks are vaccinated at 55%, Whites at 61%, Hispanics at 62% and Asians at 83%. These figures are from 1/31/22.
As I said, before anyone accuses me of being anti-vaxx, I am not.

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Are those numbers for one or two doses? Because the numbers I posted are for one dose and not two.

Those are fully vaccinated people.
I believe Valade was insinuating that the 96% were fully vaccinated. Correct me if I am mistaken here.

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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

People don’t respond well when they are called dumb for not doing something. Not saying people would have but calling them dumb and dividing the country over it doesn’t help things

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Would you have got the vaccine if Biden didn't call you dumb for not doing so?

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Originally Posted by catman

Neither of those totals is 96%. I question the validity of Valade's claim.

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My apologies, I erroneously used the % of Doctors who are vaccinated. The real number is between 90-92%, compared to far less from Republicans.

My point stands, apparently Biden's statements are doing good because over 90% of people who listened to them got vaccinated compared to far less for those that didn't.

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Originally Posted by catman

This is true, that the numbers won't go down, but the numbers from the CDC call these numbers into question. From the article above, Blacks are vaccinated at 55%, Whites at 61%, Hispanics at 62% and Asians at 83%. These figures are from 1/31/22.
As I said, before anyone accuses me of being anti-vaxx, I am not.

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Then why do you talk like it?

Do you think the vaccines are effective and should everyone be getting them?

catman still hasn't shown us where Biden supposedly called the unvaccinated "stupid". Are we just taking his word on this or did that actually happen?

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Originally Posted by valade16

Then why do you talk like it?

Do you think the vaccines are effective and should everyone be getting them?

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I don't talk like I'm anti-vaxx. I simply tell the truth about Biden. His policies, especially on Covid, have been less than stellar.

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Originally Posted by valade16

My apologies, I erroneously used the % of Doctors who are vaccinated. The real number is between 90-92%, compared to far less from Republicans.

My point stands, apparently Biden's statements are doing good because over 90% of people who listened to them got vaccinated compared to far less for those that didn't.

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Did you read the data from the CDC, reported by KFF? If not, perhaps you should look at it. 55% of blacks are fully vaccinated, 61% of whites, 62% of Hispanics, and 83% of Asians are.
No where do these totals approach 90%.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

catman still hasn't shown us where Biden supposedly called the unvaccinated "stupid". Are we just taking his word on this or did that actually happen?

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To quote him "I question the validity of Catman's claim"

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Originally Posted by catman

Did you read the data from the CDC, reported by KFF? If not, perhaps you should look at it. 55% of blacks are fully vaccinated, 61% of whites, 62% of Hispanics, and 83% of Asians are.
No where do these totals approach 90%.

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None of those are by party affiliation. DBroncos showed that number, it is over 90%.

Party affiliation can be inferred by the fact that 55% of blacks are fully vaccinated. They are, by survey results, overwhelmingly Democratic. The fact that 45% of a large group of members are not vaccinated does not give me a lot of confidence that those numbers are accurate.
Also, 61% of whites are fully vaccinated. He said that that is for 1 shot. 1 shot does not give a lot of immunity against Delta or Omicron. People that have only received 1 shot are, in essence, unvaccinated. Movement has been made in the partially vaccinated group to complete their vaccinations, but some never will.

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Originally Posted by valade16

To quote him "I question the validity of Catman's claim"

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My claim is my opinion only. Biden, and his administration, has called people that don't take vaccinations "dumb", as I do. This does not do much to persuade those who are not vaccinate, or only partially vaccinated, to receive the full doses.

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Originally Posted by catman

Party affiliation can be inferred by the fact that 55% of blacks are fully vaccinated. They are, by survey results, overwhelmingly Democratic. The fact that 45% of a large group of members are not vaccinated does not give me a lot of confidence that those numbers are accurate.
Also, 61% of whites are fully vaccinated. He said that that is for 1 shot. 1 shot does not give a lot of immunity against Delta or Omicron. People that have only received 1 shot are, in essence, unvaccinated. Movement has been made in the partially vaccinated group to complete their vaccinations, but some never will.

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Black people are only 13% of the population and not all of them are eligible to vote, in fact, a disproportionate number of them are not eligible to vote, so that doesn't invalidate the results from a statistical standpoint.

And it's dozens of polls taken over dozens of months, all with consistent results. I think you do not believe them because they contradict your claim.

But the bottom line is still true: far more Democrats are vaccinated, so those that listen to Biden seem to be doing the right thing while those who do not seem to be doing the wrong thing.

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Originally Posted by catman

My claim is my opinion only. Biden, and his administration, has called people that don't take vaccinations "dumb", as I do. This does not do much to persuade those who are not vaccinate, or only partially vaccinated, to receive the full doses.

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Is it your opinion he's called them dumb or did he actually call them dumb?

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Originally Posted by catman

We were told early in the pandemic that herd immunity would be achieved if 75% of the population were to receive vaccinations. That prediction has been shown to have been false.
Many fully vaccinated people have died of Covid. Many more have been hospitalized.
And before anyone accuses me of being anti-vaxx, I have been a vocal proponent of vaccinations all along. This stance has not changed.

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You should know better than this.

Early in the pandemic that wasn't false, because the original version of COVID wasn't as virulent.

Delta had a higher R0, so the threshold for herd immunity was higher.

Omicron has an even higher R0, so the threshold for herd immunity is even higher.

1-1R0 is how you find herd immunity. The R0 changes, the threshold changes.

It wasn't false early in the pandemic, the situation changed.

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Originally Posted by natepro

You should know better than this.

Early in the pandemic that wasn't false, because the original version of COVID wasn't as virulent.

Delta had a higher R0, so the threshold for herd immunity was higher.

Omicron has an even higher R0, so the threshold for herd immunity is even higher.

1-1R0 is how you find herd immunity. The R0 changes, the threshold changes.

It wasn't false early in the pandemic, the situation changed.

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It's really funny that one half of this discussion doesn't understand that diseases aren't static.

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Originally Posted by catman

I don't talk like I'm anti-vaxx. I simply tell the truth about Biden. His policies, especially on Covid, have been less than stellar.

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You are obsessed with dogging Biden over perceived issues with how he has handled the pandemic, yet very rarely seemed to have the same sort of issues with how Trump handled it (despite the latter being infinitely worse). It's almost like you're little more than a political hack who will try their hardest to find issues with the guy you aren't politically aligned with.

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Originally Posted by catman

My claim is my opinion only. Biden, and his administration, has called people that don't take vaccinations "dumb", as I do. This does not do much to persuade those who are not vaccinate, or only partially vaccinated, to receive the full doses.

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So now we've shifted from Biden calling the unvaccinated "stupid" to his administration calling them "dumb"? The one constant here is that you still haven't shared a shred of proof for either your initial claim or this new claim.

What's next? Are you going to attribute liberals on PSD making fun of the unvaccinated as the words of Joe Biden?

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Originally Posted by valade16

Black people are only 13% of the population and not all of them are eligible to vote, in fact, a disproportionate number of them are not eligible to vote, so that doesn't invalidate the results from a statistical standpoint.

And it's dozens of polls taken over dozens of months, all with consistent results. I think you do not believe them because they contradict your claim.

But the bottom line is still true: far more Democrats are vaccinated, so those that listen to Biden seem to be doing the right thing while those who do not seem to be doing the wrong thing.

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More Democrats are vaccinated, but what part of CDC data are you having difficulty understanding? That is what I posted with the percentages listed.
Sorry, but it appears to be you that is having difficulty accepting results.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

You are obsessed with dogging Biden over perceived issues with how he has handled the pandemic, yet very rarely seemed to have the same sort of issues with how Trump handled it (despite the latter being infinitely worse). It's almost like you're little more than a political hack who will try their hardest to find issues with the guy you aren't politically aligned with.

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I am simply telling the truth about Biden. His administration has gone about as I expected it to. He was a horrible candidate and has been a horrible president.
Covid is only one issue he has failed on. For others, I refer you to the Biden thread.

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Originally Posted by natepro

You should know better than this.

Early in the pandemic that wasn't false, because the original version of COVID wasn't as virulent.

Delta had a higher R0, so the threshold for herd immunity was higher.

Omicron has an even higher R0, so the threshold for herd immunity is even higher.

1-1R0 is how you find herd immunity. The R0 changes, the threshold changes.

It wasn't false early in the pandemic, the situation changed.

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OK, what has Biden done right in his fight against Covid?
You can stop trying to impress people to take the heat off Biden. He has failed miserably against Covid -- something I fully expected, as I lived through his response to H1N1 in 2009. It was far worse against children than even Omicron has been, but affected adults as well. There was no direction from Biden/Obama's CDC regarding treatment of patients at that time. Our Drs simply used their experience and training to treat their patients. This time, at least the CDC sent out some guidelines and recommendations in early 2020. Nothing new has come from them since the vaccines came out.

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Originally Posted by catman

I am simply telling the truth about Biden. His administration has gone about as I expected it to. He was a horrible candidate and has been a horrible president.
Covid is only one issue he has failed on. For others, I refer you to the Biden thread.

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Lying about Biden calling the unvaccinated "stupid" isn't exactly what I'd call "simply telling the truth about Biden".

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Originally Posted by catman

OK, what has Biden done right in his fight against Covid?
You can stop trying to impress people to take the heat off Biden. He has failed miserably against Covid -- something I fully expected, as I lived through his response to H1N1 in 2009. It was far worse against children than even Omicron has been, but affected adults as well. There was no direction from Biden/Obama's CDC regarding treatment of patients at that time. Our Drs simply used their experience and training to treat their patients. This time, at least the CDC sent out some guidelines and recommendations in early 2020. Nothing new has come from them since the vaccines came out.

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I appreciate you admitting you were wrong on herd immunity.