COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Originally Posted by benny01

I'm still unsure of where everyone stands on this. Any chance we could start again? Lol

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Fire away!

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Originally Posted by benny01

I'm still unsure of where everyone stands on this. Any chance we could start again? Lol

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In the beginning, there was Trump...

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

Fire away!

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I'm just going to both side it anyway. It would be really great if we could comply with social distancing measures and allow people(especially the isolated and elderly) to get together and enjoy some fellowship. In other news, my son's school closed about a month ago on a Friday. Facebook post the following afternoon invited everyone to an alumni bar hop. We dont get to have nice things

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Originally Posted by benny01

I'm just going to both side it anyway. It would be really great if we could comply with social distancing measures and allow people(especially the isolated and elderly) to get together and enjoy some fellowship. In other news, my son's school closed about a month ago on a Friday. Facebook post the following afternoon invited everyone to an alumni bar hop. We dont get to have nice things

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Yeah. The sad part is, regardless of regulations, this country full of short-sighted idiots will find some way to screw it up regardless.

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Originally Posted by nastynice

You haven't shown any stats were used. That's on you, not me.

Of course we cater to diff groups, wtf. You think majority of that $5 trillion stimulus went to the average american?

I'm not saying ignore the experts, I'm saying the experts are people like you and me. Some people like you wouldnt want churches open, some like me would. So that's why I am asking what measures were used to create these lists. With no measures, the lists are simply a matter of opinion.

One list in texas could say strip clubs are essential, one in California could say restaurants aren't. I dont just agree with them because that's what experts came up with, I am curious HOW they came up with it.

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I am not part of the medical experts on the case nor am I even from the area so I don't have nearly the information they would or know to what level it is. The thing is you are just asserting your opinion as more important than everyone else's even medical experts who have access to far more info while helping craft the comprehensive plans.

You don't make it illegal to come up with a comprehensive plan with health experts to help stop a pandemic from killing even more people because one group needs special exemptions compared to everyone else based on their opinions.

You aren't saying ignore them, you are saying they are wrong and it should be the way you think it should instead. Based on your opinion of course. What do you mean what measures? They had measures in place based on different factors (color coded). The overall plan is out there is that is what you are asking and if you are asking how much information/data that we don't have did they have access to? Who knows because we aren't medical experts or the leaders helping craft this in the area. That's part of the point of why they shouldn't just be denied to have their plan just because this one group needs special treatment in some peoples opinions. We have already covered how it is always going to be partially based in opinion. All of our government/laws are and often decisions are made without the public having all the knowledge behind what goes into it.

I don't agree with them just because it's what the experts came up with either. We have been through how my opinions differ plenty I just am not asserting my opinions must be the only way others can do things. I would love to have all the information they do and see what goes into it as well.

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Originally Posted by nastynice

Big box stores aren't high risk?

What makes you say this?

You keep reverting back to the list, the list is arbitrary but you act like it's not.

It is. It in of itself doesn't hold much weight. If you can back the methodology behind it, then it does.

So far, you can't.

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I didn't say that, quote it if I did.

You think it is arbitrary but I think most people recognize it as very similar to many different local communities that have similar things in place. It isn't just random, you cherry picking things based on your opinions of individual aspects while ignoring the big picture doesn't mean they just threw darts at a board and took what they got. I act like my opinion alone doesn't override medical experts/Doctors/local governments on how it should be done.

I at least have provided something so far unlike you and I think almost everyone on the forum other than yourself values medical experts/doctors over the opinion of Nastynice.

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Originally Posted by nastynice

There is no quandary. They can definitely establish protocol and restrictions for congregations to church. People just dont want restaurant to have more leeway than church.

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That isn't allowing them to have restrictions if those restrictions have to meet your own requirements lol. Thats just your opinions again and saying they have to fit into it. What does more leeway mean btw as restaurants also faced harsher restrictions depending on situation.

Not wanting something because you have an opinion about it isn't reason enough, everyone wants different things. Some might want movie theaters, other concerts, sporting events all open without restrictions. Well I guess we should cater to them too now.

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Originally Posted by nastynice

No, because you are using an example of anch7rch not following essential business protocol and pointing at them and saying this is why churches are dangerous and should be closed.

Brother, anyone can point to ANY business not following protocol. That's a separate issue.

If churches have people gathering and singing inside, that is not following essential business protocol. The issue here has nothing to do with being labeled essential or not, it has to do with them not following any protocol.

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What? I am pointing out the reality of what types of things are high risk using data? Agreed.

I am focused on what events across the country are leading to large spreading and what can be done to help slow it. Churches are an issue because they are more likely to break protocol? Alright I am not sure that's the only reason but it might be part of it if that's what you are getting at as reasoning for being high risk.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

I'm arguing what I have always argued...that essential/non-essential isn't as black and white as many seem to want to suggest and that churches fall into a murky category somewhere in between.

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What other businesses falls into that murky category in between?

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Originally Posted by benny01

I'm still unsure of where everyone stands on this. Any chance we could start again? Lol

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Well it got sidetracked (surprise) but I think most seemingly agree that health experts/doctors/local government/task forces coming up with comprehensive plans for different areas should be able to restrict similar business/events/risk factors/services at similar levels. There will be differences in opinion, locations will have differences, the current numbers in an area etc. all mean there will be subjective choices made of course so everywhere might be a bit different but overall this is alright to do it that way.

SCOTUS decision wasn't something others really would get too deep into on this topic. It's ended up being more about certain peoples opinions and I think religion being involved also influenced how ridiculous it got which lead away from this. I think it is interesting though as it is a change of course how they ruled in NY compared to NV and CA previously. It has more to do with shift in court when you look at votes. I think it opens up a lot of questions though.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

What other businesses falls into that murky in between?

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Best Buy, Kohl's, JC Penny, Macy's, malls. To name a few out of thousands.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

In the beginning, there was Trump...

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I know Dbroncs is going to come in with a snide comment about how easily amused I am, but so what. This made me chuckle.

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Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

Best Buy, Kohl's, JC Penny, Macy's, malls. To name a few out of thousands.

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You think churches should be treated like malls from a pandemic response point of view?

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Originally Posted by GasMan

You think churches should be treated like malls from a pandemic response point of view?

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So you actually weren't wanting a response from your question? Just purely posturing?

You asked what other businesses fall in the murky category of essential vs nonessential. I named opened businesses that absolutely fall in that category and you follow up by asking me if I thinks malls and churches should be treated the same.

No wonder why this thread has been an absolute cluster **** for the last few days.

It’s also probably worth noting that malls are not really a business. They’re a collection of businesses. They contain restaurants, clothing stores, toy stores, etc. Some of which are essential and others aren’t.