COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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11-02-2022, 10:02 PM
natepro

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

And this still has nothing to do with Covid.
As I said, neither side had the moral high ground. The right-wingers had the permit to march. The left-wingers brought weapons and provoked a confrontation. How is that the "moral high ground"?
The best way to have handled this situation would have been to let the right-wingers march and go away. They wanted a confrontatation and the left-wingers gave it to them. Neither side had the moral high ground. Both were wrong.

I just want to make sure I understand you:

The best way to handle the KKK and Nazi's is to let them peacefully and without challenge spread their message? This is what you're saying?
11-02-2022, 10:04 PM
natepro

Quote:

Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

....but the KKK and the Nazis had a permit for cripes sake!

And as we all know, the way you determine morality is with the use of permits to protest.

I think that's what contractualism is all about: permits.
11-02-2022, 10:09 PM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

Unless I'm mistaken the KKK and Neonazis had a permit to march in Charlottesville. Protestors did not have the moral high ground. I'm not saying it isn't OK to protest against racism of this sort, but there were better ways to have done so. To bring weapons was to provoke a confrontation with the right-wingers.
Again, neither side had the moral high ground here. Both were at fault.

So having a permit makes the KKK and Nazis OK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

And this still has nothing to do with Covid.
As I said, neither side had the moral high ground. The right-wingers had the permit to march. The left-wingers brought weapons and provoked a confrontation. How is that the "moral high ground"?
The best way to have handled this situation would have been to let the right-wingers march and go away. They wanted a confrontatation and the left-wingers gave it to them. Neither side had the moral high ground. Both were wrong.

The best way to handle the KKK and the Nazis is to let them do what they want?

No, the best way to handle racism isn't to ignore it. Ignoring it has never been the best way to handle anything.
11-02-2022, 10:13 PM
catman

Quote:

Originally Posted by natepro

I just want to make sure I understand you:

The best way to handle the KKK and Nazi's is to let them peacefully and without challenge spread their message? This is what you're saying?

Was this the time and place for a major confrontation? I don't believe so.
11-02-2022, 10:15 PM
catman

Quote:

Originally Posted by valade16

So having a permit makes the KKK and Nazis OK?

The best way to handle the KKK and the Nazis is to let them do what they want?

No, the best way to handle racism isn't to ignore it. Ignoring it has never been the best way to handle anything.

When did I say that having a permit made the KKK and Nazis OK? I don't believe I have ever said that. Was this the time and place for a major confrontation? That is precisely what the KKK wanted and the left gave it to them. They were organized and prepared. Not sure about the left in this case.
11-02-2022, 10:20 PM
natepro

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

Was this the time and place for a major confrontation? I don't believe so.

So we should only confront KKK and the Nazis when it's the right "time and place"?

Makes sense. When has it ever ended badly if you let the Nazis spread their message?
11-02-2022, 10:22 PM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

When did I say that having a permit made the KKK and Nazis OK? I don't believe I have ever said that. Was this the time and place for a major confrontation? That is precisely what the KKK wanted and the left gave it to them. They were organized and prepared. Not sure about the left in this case.

Was that the time and place to let the KKK and Nazis scream their hate? Not having a permit, or being unorganized does not put you on the same moral ground as the KKK and Nazis.

That you, Trump, and conservatives keep trying to equate them as being as bad as the KKK and the Nazis and these are the best examples of why you can come up with? You must not think the Nazis and the KKK are that morally repugnant that foregoing a permit or being unorganized is as bad morally...
11-02-2022, 10:23 PM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by natepro

So we should only confront KKK and the Nazis when it's the right "time and place"?

Makes sense. When has it ever ended badly if you let the Nazis spread their message?

It's absolute insanity to think that those confronting the KKK and Nazis are as morally bad as the KKK and Nazis. If anything, their morality is greater than the common man for having the conviction to confront and denounce such obvious hate.
11-02-2022, 10:28 PM
catman

Again, I will ask if this was the time and place for a major confrontation. Is it a good idea, militarily, to attack your enemy when they have their entire army massed like this? Unless the left decided before hand to mass their forces and attack (which takes away their moral high ground), they made a huge mistake by doing so.
Denounce them, sure. Confronting them when it is obvious that they have nummerical superiority is foolhardy. I denounce the KKK and Nazis daily.
11-02-2022, 10:29 PM
catman

Quote:

Originally Posted by natepro

So we should only confront KKK and the Nazis when it's the right "time and place"?

Makes sense. When has it ever ended badly if you let the Nazis spread their message?

Would you have confronted them if you were alone?
11-02-2022, 10:32 PM
spliff(TONE)

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

When did I say that having a permit made the KKK and Nazis OK? I don't believe I have ever said that. Was this the time and place for a major confrontation? That is precisely what the KKK wanted and the left gave it to them. They were organized and prepared. Not sure about the left in this case.

I absolutely love how you are attempting to make Nazis and the KKK look better by favorably comparing them to "the left".
11-02-2022, 10:33 PM
catman

Quote:

Originally Posted by valade16

Was that the time and place to let the KKK and Nazis scream their hate? Not having a permit, or being unorganized does not put you on the same moral ground as the KKK and Nazis.

That you, Trump, and conservatives keep trying to equate them as being as bad as the KKK and the Nazis and these are the best examples of why you can come up with? You must not think the Nazis and the KKK are that morally repugnant that foregoing a permit or being unorganized is as bad morally...

That is not a decision for me to make. The city of Charlottesville granted them a permit to march, knowing what and who they were. The fault for the confrontation lies partially at their feet as well, so I guess there are 3 groups that are wrong here. The right-wingers are wrong for preaching their hatred, the left-wingers are wrong for physically confronting them at this time and the city was wrong for allowing it to happen in the first place.
3 wrongs and nobody is completely right here.
11-02-2022, 10:35 PM
spliff(TONE)

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

That is not a decision for me to make. The city of Charlottesville granted them a permit to march, knowing what and who they were. The fault for the confrontation lies partially at their feet as well, so I guess there are 3 groups that are wrong here. The right-wingers are wrong for preaching their hatred, the left-wingers are wrong for physically confronting them at this time and the city was wrong for allowing it to happen in the first place.
3 wrongs and nobody is completely right here.

You are an absolute clown. :laugh2:
11-02-2022, 10:39 PM
natepro

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

Again, I will ask if this was the time and place for a major confrontation. Is it a good idea, militarily, to attack your enemy when they have their entire army massed like this? Unless the left decided before hand to mass their forces and attack (which takes away their moral high ground), they made a huge mistake by doing so.
Denounce them, sure. Confronting them when it is obvious that they have nummerical superiority is foolhardy. I denounce the KKK and Nazis daily.

Yes, it was. The time to confront them is when they show their faces in public. Your "moral high ground" rhetoric is completely laughable.

Attack? Forces? Again, they were the ones that ended up being murdered. One side drove their car into the other, and it wasn't the one that said didn't have the moral high ground, and it wasn't the one you said could've "massed their forces and attack." It was the Nazis that you want to ignore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman

Would you have confronted them if you were alone?

I guess that tells us that you wouldn't.
11-02-2022, 10:39 PM
catman

I will add one more thought and leave it. Charlottesville was more wrong than either the right-wingers or left-wingers for allowing the KKK's brand of hatred to be brought into their town in this organized fashion. Had they approached me, I would have not given them the permit to begin with.
So, we have a percentage of fault here -- 50% Charlottesville, 40% KKK and 10% left wingers in my opinion.

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