COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

I'm following along just fine; save your passive aggressive BS for someone else. I made no such claim regarding categorizing churches with sporting events. Yet you directly quoted my post and now claim that despite quoting my post and talking to me directly, you were actually referring to someone else's argument. Maybe you should have considered engaging the person that actually made that claim instead of trying to pigeonhole it in to a conversation with me.

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pot meet kettle, lol

I quoted your post because I was speaking directly to you after you'd mentioned Giants games immediately after mngophers I think talked of churches being grouped with live sports...so I figured that was why you brought up the Giants.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

I will absolutely tell you that something has been stated countless times when it has been stated countless times by myself alone (not to mention the other posters involved in this conversation). If you need things to be more specific than simply "non-essential", just say it and we can whittle things down from there. Furthermore, I'm going off what is considered non-essential by local pandemic guidelines, not simply my own opinion.



Karen? Is that you?

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and you call ME passive aggressive
I don't need things whittled down...not everybody was classifying the same things the same way, there's discussions criss-crossing all over. I originally got into a discussion specifically about the SCOTUS decision regarding churches in NY but people have also been talking both about what restrictions are where they live as well as what they THINK restrictions should be....so it's not one nice neat discussion of one topic.

and don't start the Karen crap again...

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Originally Posted by nastynice

No, me and sitewolf very clearly made our points in regards to saying if they can open in a safe manner then that should be allowed. If you glossed over that then you are the one who doesn't understand the discussion.

And you specifically are the one who was saying there's no reason to go in person church. Don't try to piggyback an out now.

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Yes. Church is not essential for in-person services and should have reduced capacity and if the local/state COVID rates are high enough and other non-essentially businesses are made to have no in person ability by the government than churches shouldn’t either. This is and has been the consistent argument I have made. Non-essential is a clear designation that many churches have been suing to get relief from. I disagree with that. What do you think happens when the number of worshipers allowed is cut to 25%? Don’t some of the people in that place of worship stay home and worship there? Do they not understand how religion works?

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Originally Posted by ewing

For many people the church community is positive and essential to their lives. Weekly service is the central activity the this community revolves around. I’m not saying places of worship should get special treatment but comparing them to broadway for a Justin Bieber show is either naive or intentionally condescending


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There are countless communities that would be deemed positive and essential to the people in them. Not being able to go to in-person worship does not preclude people from worshiping, worshiping with their immediate family, streaming services and maintaining contact with the community.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

Well here's the problem with that take....the same as what?
Before you can say they're not being treated the same, what are we comparing them to?

You can't, on the one hand, say they should be treated like a a retail store while at the same time saying they're in a different category. And as far as he and I 'misunderstanding' the discussion, as is usual here there has been various discussions within the overall discussion. Crovash's 'blip' about the ruling was no end all be all to the conversation.

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Other businesses/entities deemed non-essential. Crovash’s blip was the genesis for this discussion but nasty came in guns a blazing without even knowing what was being discussed which is common for his posts which is why I rarely read them. I wish I wouldn’t have read him this time either.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

There are countless communities that would be deemed positive and essential to the people in them. Not being able to go to in-person worship does not preclude people from worshiping, worshiping with their immediate family, streaming services and maintaining contact with the community.

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Raise your hand if you've heard the media talk about people struggling with isolation.
Raise your hand if you've read how many older people living alone with no social life deteriorate faster than if they were in a place where they spend days with people their age.
Raise your hand if you even know everything that might be involved in being a member of a church.

No, short term people can get by without a lot of things. After a while, though, they start to become more essential to them...and after 8 months with no end in sight...

But if a bar is considered essential, yeah it's intentionally condescending to make it sound like in-person worship isn't.

Did anyone ever come up with what the restrictions are for bars and restaurants in NY right now? before 10pm?

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

you do understand that not everybody has....and that not everybody agrees on what is non-essential
Don't tell me something has been stated 'countless times' when there's been a mish mash of things stated

Some of the people in this discussion should just come right out and say what they're thinking- they'd prefer churches just be shut down...period...even after the pandemic restrictions go away. dbroncslefty all but did already

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This is a cop out. The majority of the discussion has been about designation of religious services relative to the recent SCOTUS ruling. Because those of us who are arguing that we don’t think people need to physically be in the same room together to worship during a global pandemic doesn’t mean we are trying to shut down churches. I also don’t think people need to physically stand together in a Bed Bath and Beyond during a global pandemic, I’m not anti-housewares either.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

Other businesses/entities deemed non-essential. Crovash’s blip was the genesis for this discussion but nasty came in guns a blazing without even knowing what was being discussed which is common for his posts which is why I rarely read them. I wish I wouldn’t have read him this time either.

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umm, the original discussion on this topic was about the SCOTUS decision regarding the restrictions Cuomo was putting in place in NY and whether that was a good decision or not. I'm not sure how nasty's input was 'guns ablazing' or off topic...

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I am pointing it out and that is what other people who you have been arguing with have done as well earlier in the discussion. Crovash mentioned it and you also discussed it with Gasman. You asked about who cares if essential or not... That's why people don't think you have understood the conversation. It's not reaching lol it is the discussion at hand in the SCOTUS decision as the label given will determine the level of restrictions. You aren't following along/listening to what others have been pointing out throughout, we are basing our discussions on reality while you have been ranting about made up things.

I already stated I disagree with allowing indoor dining in a comment to Sitewolf just above. You now claim I say it is necessary. Even when there is contrary posted right above you still feel the need to make up your own arguments for us while ignoring everything said and reality in general.

Health Experts helped develop the plan which placed Church as a higher risk/non essential business forcing harsher restrictions. If you were on the side of science you wouldn't be arguing this hard against it without ever providing actual science.

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Ok, so if I made the comment that churches should be allowed to stay open if safe, and I got blow back for saying that, why should I be the one referencing the essential label? When people DID reference it, I replied in a manner to imply it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. The fact that you have "gotcha" on your mind should speak volumes as to why me and you keep having miscommunication.

Brother I'm sitting here talking to 5 to 6 people, I am making general comments regarding the idea of being an essential business vs not, yet you think you "got me". All this "getting people" is the cause of majority of miscommunication between us. Fix it.

Health experts are developing plans that are bringing pushback from numerous business industries across the board. I am.bringing up science, notice every time I mention a church being open it is within the context of doing so in a safe manner.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

This is a cop out. The majority of the discussion has been about designation of religious services relative to the recent SCOTUS ruling. Because those of us who are arguing that we don’t think people need to physically be in the same room together to worship during a global pandemic doesn’t mean we are trying to shut down churches. I also don’t think people need to physically stand together in a Bed Bath and Beyond during a global pandemic, I’m not anti-housewares either.

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You have a right to your opinion. Quite obviously mine differs.
You also understand that if you're not one who goes to church, you don't really know what a devout church goer is missing out on by not being allowed to go to in-person worship.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

Yes. Church is not essential for in-person services and should have reduced capacity and if the local/state COVID rates are high enough and other non-essentially businesses are made to have no in person ability by the government than churches shouldn’t either. This is and has been the consistent argument I have made. Non-essential is a clear designation that many churches have been suing to get relief from. I disagree with that. What do you think happens when the number of worshipers allowed is cut to 25%? Don’t some of the people in that place of worship stay home and worship there? Do they not understand how religion works?

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Apparently you don't, yet YOU are asking this question? lol

Ok, obviously churches should be subject to some form of covid regulation, as is any other business. No one here has even implied otherwise.

It HAS been implied heavily, by you even, that churches shouldn't be allowed to stay open.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

There are countless communities that would be deemed positive and essential to the people in them. Not being able to go to in-person worship does not preclude people from worshiping, worshiping with their immediate family, streaming services and maintaining contact with the community.

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Is target essential? Buying sofa pillows and legos in person is essential?

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

Raise your hand if you've heard the media talk about people struggling with isolation.
Raise your hand if you've read how many older people living alone with no social life deteriorate faster than if they were in a place where they spend days with people their age.
Raise your hand if you even know everything that might be involved in being a member of a church.

No, short term people can get by without a lot of things. After a while, though, they start to become more essential to them...and after 8 months with no end in sight...

But if a bar is considered essential, yeah it's intentionally condescending to make it sound like in-person worship isn't.

Did anyone ever come up with what the restrictions are for bars and restaurants in NY right now? before 10pm?

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So your solution to the social isolation cause by a global pandemic is to make the pandemic worse? And you’re advocating exposing elderly people to large gatherings of people? Churches are communities and that doesn’t end in a global pandemic and I would think it would accentuate the need for that community. But there are ways to look out for each other, provide solace and companionship without sitting in service together in a large group. And this isn’t just an 8 months later argument, some religious communities have been pushing back on limitations from the get go.

I never said bars are essential. If NY has deemed them as such then I am right there with you arguing that should be changed.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

Other businesses/entities deemed non-essential. Crovash’s blip was the genesis for this discussion but nasty came in guns a blazing without even knowing what was being discussed which is common for his posts which is why I rarely read them. I wish I wouldn’t have read him this time either.

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No I didnt come in guns blazing, I just agreed with sitewolf take, but you are under hypnosis of the atheist agenda and so to.you that is guns blazing, lol.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

So your solution to the social isolation cause by a global pandemic is to make the pandemic worse?

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Sitewolf brought up some great points. If I were in an authority position to respond to the pandemic, everything he brought up is something that would have to be examined. How can someone bring up these points without you reverting to the nonsense response I just quoted?

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