COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Originally Posted by nastynice

No, it's a science vs propaganda argument.

Science wins. [emoji846]

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Wow. You're actually right for once. Unfortunately for you though, I know you have who is on each side of this conversation completely backwards. Your arguments lean on religious propaganda (as well as ignorant nonsense), while those on the other side of the conversation are leaning on science.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

Oh, brother. It's been achingly clear that most all of us are comparing churches to other non-essential businesses. This has been stated countless time; no need to play dumb. I expect it out of nasty but I know you are smarter than this.

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you do understand that not everybody has....and that not everybody agrees on what is non-essential
Don't tell me something has been stated 'countless times' when there's been a mish mash of things stated

Some of the people in this discussion should just come right out and say what they're thinking- they'd prefer churches just be shut down...period...even after the pandemic restrictions go away. dbroncslefty all but did already

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

They provide different services first of all as you get at. Food is a need in order to live.
Second I already shared the study on spreading at church and we all know about larger gatherings/super spreader events. They are different in a sense as more of a risk given the ability for situations like that to occur. That risk also factors in to having a different category.

Why allow indoor eating at restaurants? I don't agree with it but it doesn't change either of the above. It also isn't a good reason to allow more risky activity.

Arguing for them to be placed in a special group of essential business for less restrictions is asking for different/preferential treatment. That comparison isn't the end all be all though. No one is even necessarily agreeing or not with the other rules this is about if they should be able to restrict them more than certain businesses labeled essential or not. I actually think you make a decent point about restaurants and I personally think they should stick to take out right now. That doesn't shift the argument over what category churches can be placed in though imo.

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I agree that restaurants should be strictly takeout currently as well. Though I could certainly be talked in to some well spaced outdoor dining.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

I agree that restaurants should be strictly takeout currently as well. Though I could certainly be talked in to some well spaced outdoor dining.

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That's what is allowed here. You wear your mask to wait for the table and then once you're at the table, you can take it off.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

Follow along.....prior to your mentioning you couldn't go to a Giants game someone said that churches were not categorized with bars and restaurants but instead were in a special category with sporting and other live events. Hence my comment on the number of people that would be involved in a game, regardless of whether there were fans allowed or not.

I was never looking to compare live sports with church services at ALL, somebody else was. I'VE all along been comparing them to bars and restaurants.

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I'm following along just fine; save your passive aggressive BS for someone else. I made no such claim regarding categorizing churches with sporting events. Yet you directly quoted my post and now claim that despite quoting my post and talking to me directly, you were actually referring to someone else's argument. Maybe you should have considered engaging the person that actually made that claim instead of trying to pigeonhole it in to a conversation with me.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

You can do that, it wouldn't change anything I said nor be relevant though lol. My response will probably be lol because you are trying so hard to play gotcha and it's over something I never said didn't happen.

Alright so you focused on the same treatment as restaurants. I already shared a study showing the massive outbreak potential/reality that has happened with churches and they are not providing the same service either as one deals with providing food. I responded to this point multiple times on how they are different but it hasn't ever been responded to. This isn't a valid comparison to say it might not be special treatment, one can easily be labeled essential while the other not be. That will determine the restrictions placed on different types of businesses as you have already noted being and obvious thing to do with your gyms comment. Others have provided plenty more comparisons and they are things that would have the more strict restrictions (which is the debate, not over if it should be banned/not allowed like the strawman I actually referenced/didn't get a quote for even still while you try for your gotcha).

The issue is everyone has responded to these points you say have been ignored multiple times even. You just aren't actually following along as others have also noted you don't really seem to understand what is being discussed.

You are very focused on grouping people together, making sweeping statements about groups, using strawman arguments, going for gotcha's without a basis in reality and if we wanna talk about acting like Trump...

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I'm not playing gotcha, you're trying to act like this discussion has centered around what it is labeled as, but it hasn't, it has been centered around the idea that church should be allowed to operate if done so safely because the entire discussion from your guys side has been about saying church isnt necessary, doesn't need to be in person, doesn't need to be open, etc etc. But you are master of semantic games, so now you're trying to reach for this essential vs non essential bs. And look, you are alluding to the exact same idea in your second paragraph...you are contradicting yourself within your own post.

Yes, you feel a restaurant is more essential than church, many people feel different. Allowing restaurants to be open with indoor dining does cause deaths. That's the reality of it. But you say its necessary. That's your opinion. Many people have other opinions. So rather than catering to your or my opinion, the protocol should cater to science. If a church can be open safely, then so be it, cater to the science and let it be. Q

What did I say was ignored?







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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

you do understand that not everybody has....and that not everybody agrees on what is non-essential
Don't tell me something has been stated 'countless times' when there's been a mish mash of things stated

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I will absolutely tell you that something has been stated countless times when it has been stated countless times by myself alone (not to mention the other posters involved in this conversation). If you need things to be more specific than simply "non-essential", just say it and we can whittle things down from there. Furthermore, I'm going off what is considered non-essential by local pandemic guidelines, not simply my own opinion.

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Some of the people in this discussion should just come right out and say what they're thinking- they'd prefer churches just be shut down...period...even after the pandemic restrictions go away. dbroncslefty all but did already

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Karen? Is that you?

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Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

That's what is allowed here. You wear your mask to wait for the table and then once you're at the table, you can take it off.

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Sounds like the same ish in Cali as well (at least currently while most of the state is operating at the "purple" level).

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Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

That's what is allowed here. You wear your mask to wait for the table and then once you're at the table, you can take it off.

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One area had a good set up here for months, all of them kind if extended tents into the parking lot and set tables up outside on the parking lot space, it was nice to eat dinner there, very packed but all outdoor.

And also masks off at table only. Good, smart, effective protocol.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

I'm not sure I do actually. Maybe you could spell it out for all of us, bozo. You know more than anyone here that we all need your infinite wisdom to guide us.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

Again, you avoided answering my very simple and direct questions. Probably because you realize that if you did so, it would only further expose your own contradictions, hypocrisy, and general nonsense.

If I am wrong with this assumption, please go ahead and actually answer the questions I am referring to. If not, keep sidestepping and making a fool of yourself.

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Keep dipping and dodging my questions, nasty. I know you ain't about ****.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

Keep dipping and dodging my questions, nasty. I know you ain't about ****.

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lol, oh those hard hitting questions got me!!

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Apparently they did. Keep running your mouth though, we're all really impressed.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

Some of the people in this discussion should just come right out and say what they're thinking- they'd prefer churches just be shut down...period...even after the pandemic restrictions go away. dbroncslefty all but did already

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A lot of them aren't really aware of this tho. That's not how propaganda works. [emoji854]

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Originally Posted by nastynice

I'm not playing gotcha, you're trying to act like this discussion has centered around what it is labeled as, but it hasn't, it has been centered around the idea that church should be allowed to operate if done so safely because the entire discussion from your guys side has been about saying church isnt necessary, doesn't need to be in person, doesn't need to be open, etc etc. But you are master of semantic games, so now you're trying to reach for this essential vs non essential bs. And look, you are alluding to the exact same idea in your second paragraph...you are contradicting yourself within your own post.

Yes, you feel a restaurant is more essential than church, many people feel different. Allowing restaurants to be open with indoor dining does cause deaths. That's the reality of it. But you say its necessary. That's your opinion. Many people have other opinions. So rather than catering to your or my opinion, the protocol should cater to science. If a church can be open safely, then so be it, cater to the science and let it be. Q

What did I say was ignored?







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I am pointing it out and that is what other people who you have been arguing with have done as well earlier in the discussion. Crovash mentioned it and you also discussed it with Gasman. You asked about who cares if essential or not... That's why people don't think you have understood the conversation. It's not reaching lol it is the discussion at hand in the SCOTUS decision as the label given will determine the level of restrictions. You aren't following along/listening to what others have been pointing out throughout, we are basing our discussions on reality while you have been ranting about made up things.

I already stated I disagree with allowing indoor dining in a comment to Sitewolf just above. You now claim I say it is necessary. Even when there is contrary posted right above you still feel the need to make up your own arguments for us while ignoring everything said and reality in general.

Health Experts helped develop the plan which placed Church as a higher risk/non essential business forcing harsher restrictions. If you were on the side of science you wouldn't be arguing this hard against it without ever providing actual science.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

How is in person service essential? Does god not hear you in your house? Lots of musicians are claiming in person concerts are essential and movie theaters think in person movies are essential. Art and religion are important but can be performed/consumed in your home.

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For many people the church community is positive and essential to their lives. Weekly service is the central activity the this community revolves around. I’m not saying places of worship should get special treatment but comparing them to broadway for a Justin Bieber show is either naive or intentionally condescending


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