COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Originally Posted by Scoots

Why can't we be better? Because it's expensive, and would require time travel.

As far as testing the "right" people ... I think the doctors are doing the best they can, but it's going to be decided at a very local level. The best solution is to make sure we have enough tests spread out all over the place so that people who want to be tested can get tested.

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At some point you have to make a change now or else it’s always looking backwards saying “if we had only started sooner”. Expensive shouldn’t be a word that comes anywhere near this issue, whatever the cost it would be worth it. This is how we stop the economy crushing SIP orders currently needed to protect us.

The who to test is a bit stickier since different people believe different things. The CDC is advocating for only testing people that have a high probability of being sick which is great for getting as accurate data as possible considering the paltry number of tests available. But what is more important in my mind is trying to identify who is spreading the disease but not symptomatic. The article I posted talked about pool testing which is the kind of smart thinking that we should be looking at the get ahead of this thing for a change.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

At some point you have to make a change now or else it’s always looking backwards saying “if we had only started sooner”. Expensive shouldn’t be a word that comes anywhere near this issue, whatever the cost it would be worth it. This is how we stop the economy crushing SIP orders currently needed to protect us.

The who to test is a bit stickier since different people believe different things. The CDC is advocating for only testing people that have a high probability of being sick which is great for getting as accurate data as possible considering the paltry number of tests available. But what is more important in my mind is trying to identify who is spreading the disease but not symptomatic. The article I posted talked about pool testing which is the kind of smart thinking that we should be looking at the get ahead of this thing for a change.

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Sure, and the change now should be for the next time something like this comes up. The emergency supplies should be re-filled. The US government (and states) should only buy US made products so the infrastructure has a reason to exist.

The face masks, as an example, are $.10 per for US manufacture, $.03 per for China manufacture. Some estimate $.05 of that difference is the lack of considerations for the environment in China, so $.02 per mask is the labor difference. We want to be green? Buys US made masks, they only cost 333% more.

We used to have a lot of drug manufacturing local, but when congress took away their tax breaks, the manufacturing very quickly went to China.

It's not an easy fix.

Add to that that "Buy USA made" is xenophobic and nationalist now so ... evil.

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Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men

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Look who is expected to obey the authority and those who believe they are entitled to confront the authority. But a small part of me understands their concerns. They know the government isn't going to come to their rescue if they keep missing paychecks. Especially after Mnuckin told them that $1,200 would last them ten weeks. Plus the sight of empty grocery shelves and people being evicted can put a lot of fear in people

Heard that milk and eggs are being trashed due to low restaurant orders. Amazing, our system is doing this instead of giving it to people who need it.

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Originally Posted by WES445

Look who is expected to obey the authority and those who believe they are entitled to confront the authority.

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This

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Originally Posted by WES445

Look who is expected to obey the authority and those who believe they are entitled to confront the authority. But a small part of me understands their concerns. They know the government isn't going to come to their rescue if they keep missing paychecks. Especially after Mnuckin told them that $1,200 would last them ten weeks. Plus the sight of empty grocery shelves and people being evicted can put a lot of fear in people

Heard that milk and eggs are being trashed due to low restaurant orders. Amazing, our system is doing this instead of giving it to people who need it.

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I wonder if they are not allowed to give it away for some stupid reason.

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Originally Posted by WES445

Look who is expected to obey the authority and those who believe they are entitled to confront the authority. But a small part of me understands their concerns. They know the government isn't going to come to their rescue if they keep missing paychecks. Especially after Mnuckin told them that $1,200 would last them ten weeks. Plus the sight of empty grocery shelves and people being evicted can put a lot of fear in people

Heard that milk and eggs are being trashed due to low restaurant orders. Amazing, our system is doing this instead of giving it to people who need it.

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Isn't that more about people not obeying the law? Are the people protesting breaking the law? If they are not, just laugh at them as idiots and move on.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

Isn't that more about people not obeying the law? Are the people protesting breaking the law? If they are not, just laugh at them as idiots and move on.

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No, it is about the reasons why they are breaking the law. I don't think all their issues are petty. It isn't about just being able to go to movies and sporting events. In other countries, their government is giving their stay home citizens monthly checks until the pandemic is over. Their government is actively putting their welfare front and center, they have been more efficient with testing, which gives their citizen a more secure feeling. They don't have evictions going on like we do or governors competing with the central government for medical supplies or fighting over medical policies. Thus, they are more willing to follow their stay at home orders.

If I wasn't on a fixed dependable (for now)income, I would be very worried about my love one's well-being. After watching the government downplay or ignoring my community's concern I am more willing to see protesters side of the issue. They are faced with staying at home with no paid check in sight, the possibility of their place of employment disappearing in this pandemic and depending on our big business controlled government to see them through this. That isn't comforting. In fact, it would make me very antsy and seeking alternatives to depending on our government to see me through this in one piece.

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Originally Posted by statquo

It's just the sad state of the culture. No leadership. No direction. No responsibility. No trust. Too many individuals. Blame someone else. Rinse. Repeat.

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If you want a good example of this…… look at how many votes in Congress are along party lines. Many times 100 percent along party lines.

Hard to believe that near 100% of the Dems are for abortion or near 100% of the repubs are against it. Same with gun control, many spending issues, etc. They're not allowed to think for themselves. It's all the party line.

It comes: from party leaders controlling the purse strings, party leaders handing out committee postings, and "you vote for my bill and I'll vote for yours" type of thinking. They put the party ahead of the country.

Term limits would solve most problems, and allowing the line item veto. Term limits would require a constitutional amendment and (I think) such an amendment must start in congress. Not sure if the states could start this on their own. For Congress to start this you would need these politicians to vote to give up their gold mine jobs. Good luck with that.

Until you have term limits, very little will change.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

I wonder if they are not allowed to give it away for some stupid reason.

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They also did it during the great depression. Whatever the reason is it is shameful. If the government can waste money on military hardware they can waste it on paying farmers for their hard work. Use their product to feed people who aren't seeing a paycheck because of the stay at home order or the needy. It is about where they put their priorities. I would feel better about where my tax dollars go if they did this. Plus, they are missing a golden election opportunity. The idea that politicians are feeding the needing in this pandemic would go over well with the public.

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Originally Posted by WES445

No, it is about the reasons why they are breaking the law. I don't think all their issues are petty. It isn't about just being able to go to movies and sporting events. In other countries, their government is giving their stay home citizens monthly checks until the pandemic is over. Their government is actively putting their welfare front and center, they have been more efficient with testing, which gives their citizen a more secure feeling. They don't have evictions going on like we do or governors competing with the central government for medical supplies or fighting over medical policies. Thus, they are more willing to follow their stay at home orders.

If I wasn't on a fixed dependable (for now)income, I would be very worried about my love one's well-being. After watching the government downplay or ignoring my community's concern I am more willing to see protesters side of the issue. They are faced with staying at home with no paid check in sight, the possibility of their place of employment disappearing in this pandemic and depending on our big business controlled government to see them through this. That isn't comforting. In fact, it would make me very antsy and seeking alternatives to depending on our government to see me through this in one piece.

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Are the people gathering breaking the law?

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Originally Posted by WES445

They also did it during the great depression. Whatever the reason is it is shameful. If the government can waste money on military hardware they can waste it on paying farmers for their hard work. Use their product to feed people who aren't seeing a paycheck because of the stay at home order or the needy. It is about where they put their priorities. I would feel better about where my tax dollars go if they did this. Plus, they are missing a golden election opportunity. The idea that politicians are feeding the needing in this pandemic would go over well with the public.

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Sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers are not allowed to do it because of some stupid law/regulation. Like they are not protected legally from lawsuits, or restaurant grade milk doesn't have the "safety seal" or a different grade of testing or container or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

Sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers are not allowed to do it because of some stupid law/regulation. Like they are not protected legally from lawsuits, or restaurant grade milk doesn't have the "safety seal" or a different grade of testing or container or whatever.

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I don't see our politicians keeping or following stupid laws unless someone benefits from them financially or politically. This is high-quality food being wasted that was supposed to be shipped to restaurants and businesses.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

Sure, and the change now should be for the next time something like this comes up. The emergency supplies should be re-filled. The US government (and states) should only buy US made products so the infrastructure has a reason to exist.

The face masks, as an example, are $.10 per for US manufacture, $.03 per for China manufacture. Some estimate $.05 of that difference is the lack of considerations for the environment in China, so $.02 per mask is the labor difference. We want to be green? Buys US made masks, they only cost 333% more.

We used to have a lot of drug manufacturing local, but when congress took away their tax breaks, the manufacturing very quickly went to China.

It's not an easy fix.

Add to that that "Buy USA made" is xenophobic and nationalist now so ... evil.

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**** the next pandemic. I thought we were the greatest country on the planet. How are we unable to make these tests up the the quantity needed? We’re running out of swabs. How is that possible? Six weeks ago (and really much sooner) we should have known that we would need hundreds of millions if not a billion plus tests to have any ability to confront this pandemic. Where was the person who was making sure this stuff was happening? Yes a lot of this requires supply chains that exist outside our country but I find it hard to believe that if we wanted to with competent leadership we couldn’t have turned into a country that made PPE, ventilators and testing kits. This feels like we woke up the morning of the science project with a cup of dirt (Brian Reagan fans?).

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Originally Posted by Scoots

Are the people gathering breaking the law?

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Not sure, depends on the legality of Governors' quarantine orders.

That being said, kind of undermines their point when they're like "we are not going to put up with Government tyranny! But we will obey any and all laws from the Government"...

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Originally Posted by Scoots

Sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers are not allowed to do it because of some stupid law/regulation. Like they are not protected legally from lawsuits, or restaurant grade milk doesn't have the "safety seal" or a different grade of testing or container or whatever.

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Always so quick to blame the Government and regulations (which is why I questioned your stance on regulations in the other thread, for someone who has stated businesses have no inherent obligation to behave ethically or morally you seem very anti-regulation).

Turns out, it's not regulations, its where farmers traditionally sell their products no longer having the demand because where people buy food have shifted:

https://www.today.com/food/why-farme...d-food-t178695

I found this part to be particularly ironic to your point:

According to food industry experts, solving this problem isn't impossible, but it will require an efficient plan and help from the government.

So not only is Government not the problem here, experts are saying they must be part of the solution.