Coronavirus politics and news.

...or more bourbon and cognac please.

unless of course if you prefer vodka or gin.

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Originally Posted by flimflamman

Posada " Freedom and Liberties " are synonyms, just because you said freedom twice doesn't make you more eloquent. In a Democracy we have two things equally as important. Namely rights and duties. We have a constitution that protects are rights, and equally implied is our duties to one another. I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as long as my rights don't imperil the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of others. Those protesters need to balance their rights with their duties to others.

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Excellent points Flim on the constitutionality.

I tend to view freedom and liberty as distinct concepts. One as an internal construct - freedom and the other external - liberty. Liberty is bestowed and protected by the constitution. Freedom is a belief, a state of being. A psychic construct. Under the most extreme deprivation one is still free to think and believe as they choose.

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Originally Posted by drt1010

...or more bourbon and cognac please.

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Bourbon, Rum Tequila, Cachaca

I don't do the clear stuff. (Except tequila and mezcal)

Ok, here's a scenario for those who think we should start up again and forgo social distancing.
And to be expressly clear, I am in no way hoping, wishing this happens to any of us. I am in no way wishing harm.
It is a hypothetical scenario.

I work with you. We have a job site that has 100 people.
I feel a little sick but I chalk it up to allergies and because I think cover is no big deal and I think the country should be open, I come to work. We go about our day business as usual. What I don't know is, I was actually positive for Covid.
I give it to 15 people who work closely with me. You are one of them.
You go home to your family for the weekend. You go and visit your parents for dinner. You never feel sick. Your family never gets sick.
But a week later, your parents are very sick. They test positive. Because of contact tracing, they test you and your family, you all test positive. It's all good, you are toast the 14 day window by this point so there is no risk for you. They tesl your workplace and I find out I was the carrier who gave it to you, then you to your parents who are now in ICU.

I say, wow I didn't know. Oh well. It's not that serious.


How about this, same scenario but your wife is diabetic and she gets sick?


Do you have words for me? The president? Or is it no big deal?

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Originally Posted by drt1010

Excellent points Flim on the constitutionality.

I tend to view freedom and liberty as distinct concepts. One as an internal construct - freedom and the other external - liberty. Liberty is bestowed and protected by the constitution. Freedom is a belief, a state of being. A psychic construct. Under the most extreme deprivation one is still free to think and believe as they choose.

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Your philosophical distinction from freedom and liberty are just that. In practical legal terms it's only freedom/liberty. They cannot be so subtly defined I don't think. Now on a philosophical spiritual level I agree. Spiritually I believe you can always be mentally free despite what society or the state believes or allows. A free mind is free no matter what the world says. It's based on your ideals, principals, standards, faith, hope. Which is what Posada and some Trump supporters don't get when they critize a conservative like me who opposes Trump. I don't vote for a person I vote based on principals and ideals. They did not vote for Trump on principles and ideals they voted for him cause he captured their emotions. Principals mattered less then getting back at people they were angry at or disliked like smarty libs, illegals, leftists, whatevee... he promised they would be prosperous, safe, happy and those bad people would be punished. They gravitated to a personality to a cult of personality. And that is why they are so loyal. They don't have a greater larger principle to fall back on.

Yanksguy, I see you lurking. How are you?

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Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown

Let's take a look. See if you agree.
We have a president who's only claim to success, has been the economy. If it fails, he won't be reelected.
If he gets it going, he likely will be.
If he "jump starts" the economy by sending people back to work (or rather putting pressure on governors and companies to do so) and the virus does go dormant in the summer, he looks brilliant and worst case, the virus comes back in the fall and is worse than it is now, there will be a much smaller voter turnout. That's good for him.

The this orange piece of ****, is gambling on his reelection and his bet, is human life.

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For sure. Its just sad some people are willing to gamble like that to be "right".

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Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown

Ok, here's a scenario for those who think we should start up again and forgo social distancing.
And to be expressly clear, I am in no way hoping, wishing this happens to any of us. I am in no way wishing harm.
It is a hypothetical scenario.

I work with you. We have a job site that has 100 people.
I feel a little sick but I chalk it up to allergies and because I think cover is no big deal and I think the country should be open, I come to work. We go about our day business as usual. What I don't know is, I was actually positive for Covid.
I give it to 15 people who work closely with me. You are one of them.
You go home to your family for the weekend. You go and visit your parents for dinner. You never feel sick. Your family never gets sick.
But a week later, your parents are very sick. They test positive. Because of contact tracing, they test you and your family, you all test positive. It's all good, you are toast the 14 day window by this point so there is no risk for you. They tesl your workplace and I find out I was the carrier who gave it to you, then you to your parents who are now in ICU.

I say, wow I didn't know. Oh well. It's not that serious.


How about this, same scenario but your wife is diabetic and she gets sick?


Do you have words for me? The president? Or is it no big deal?

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The economy will collapse if you keep people out of work longer!!!

You're expecting a legitimate response to this? I wouldn't hold your breath.

I don't have a problem with legal immigration. However, the best way to make sure people don't come here illegally is to punish the he'll out of the companies that employ them. Why did Republicans not support Everify for SS numbers ? You know half of the people picking our food is illegal so what does that mean for the safety of our food supply. Or the people who work at the cattle, pork, and poultry farms. This is the perfect time to reevaluate and call for comprehensive immigration reform. You know you will either have more illegals being allowed to work in those industries while the right looks the other way but continues to demonize them. Or you can really not allow them in and the food prices surge or food becomes less available as it can't be harvested and also causing those items to rise at this vulnerable economic time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown

Ok, here's a scenario for those who think we should start up again and forgo social distancing.
And to be expressly clear, I am in no way hoping, wishing this happens to any of us. I am in no way wishing harm.
It is a hypothetical scenario.

I work with you. We have a job site that has 100 people.
I feel a little sick but I chalk it up to allergies and because I think cover is no big deal and I think the country should be open, I come to work. We go about our day business as usual. What I don't know is, I was actually positive for Covid.
I give it to 15 people who work closely with me. You are one of them.
You go home to your family for the weekend. You go and visit your parents for dinner. You never feel sick. Your family never gets sick.
But a week later, your parents are very sick. They test positive. Because of contact tracing, they test you and your family, you all test positive. It's all good, you are toast the 14 day window by this point so there is no risk for you. They tesl your workplace and I find out I was the carrier who gave it to you, then you to your parents who are now in ICU.

I say, wow I didn't know. Oh well. It's not that serious.


How about this, same scenario but your wife is diabetic and she gets sick?


Do you have words for me? The president? Or is it no big deal?

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No big deal. Economy is more important than anyone on here. **** all ya'll!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flimflamman

Your philosophical distinction from freedom and liberty are just that. In practical legal terms it's only freedom/liberty. They cannot be so subtly defined I don't think. Now on a philosophical spiritual level I agree. Spiritually I believe you can always be mentally free despite what society or the state believes or allows. A free mind is free no matter what the world says. It's based on your ideals, principals, standards, faith, hope. Which is what Posada and some Trump supporters don't get when they critize a conservative like me who opposes Trump. I don't vote for a person I vote based on principals and ideals. They did not vote for Trump on principles and ideals they voted for him cause he captured their emotions. Principals mattered less then getting back at people they were angry at or disliked like smarty libs, illegals, leftists, whatevee... he promised they would be prosperous, safe, happy and those bad people would be punished. They gravitated to a personality to a cult of personality. And that is why they are so loyal. They don't have a greater larger principle to fall back on.

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I love this ****.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone's beliefs. I want to be clear.

The moment you introduce any institution into your life, religious or national or political or coke or Pepsi, you lose free thought. Once your choices are made too sty in line with a code, even a good code, you are not free.
True free thought, is a terrifying concept because it means just that. Free. You must divorce yourself from the very concepts that identify you and delve inward to find what your thoughts actually are.

That also means owing your dark, nasty stuff and I mean the real nasty stuff. The stuff we point fingers at when it's said or done.


Yang does not exist without yin.


Now regarding Trump, I agree 100%.
I never faulted anyone who voted for him. I got into tons of arguments with my wife and my friends because I would call them out about their outrage. I dint' like him but I understood the appeal. I had close family and friends who voted for him. I listened to their logic and I understood. I also know people who couldn't vote for Hilary so they voted for him.
I didn't think he was doing a bad job. I don't like what he stands for or what he doesn't stand up to, because it's his base but the country was doing well. (That is another debate, I know people will talk about debt and things like that)

I always thought he would be tested when there was a crisis. He's failed miserably and in his failure, his true colors are showing.
Some people love those colors. I would venture to say, most of them are terrified and misinformed and are in too deep to admit defeat.
Or they are super rich and making money.

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Originally Posted by metswon69

The economy will collapse if you keep people out of work longer!!!

You're expecting a legitimate response to this? I wouldn't hold your breath.

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Huh?
What?

Oh, I must have passed out.



The ****ing irony is, every person who is being asked to go back to work should absolutely demand a better working environment, wages and benefits. If the economy needs them so badly, their quality of living should show that. This is the perfect time for a non violent, mini revolution to get the government to pass legislation that protects and gives excellent compensation nation to all.

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Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown

Why didn't he do it 6 weeks ago?

He's doing for reasons other than national safety. He's doing it for his base.

If he was really concerned with national safety, he would have large companies either be accountable for those they are asking back to work or give those people significant pay increases for the near future.

If he stopped immigration in early march? Ok. But now? Come on.

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It will still help slow the spread. I get your point but come on...

How come the opposition has no problems spreading the virus that happen in different avenues but when he does anything to block those streams it is bad because of a political view?

I find it hilarious.

Im not singling you out just saying in general.

Why would you approve of any immigration NOW Clown?

Seriously?

He is late on it but he also gets pushback from every angle and he obviously had to go through those pushbacks and I’m not just talking about the awful media.

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Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown

Yanksguy, I see you lurking. How are you?

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LOL

I'm doing okay. Have a slight cough but that's it. Thanks for asking.