Week 1 Thread

well its nice to play the Grizzlies without two important players and shoot 56% from 3 while they only shoot 29% from 3. Sometimes I feel like this team plays better when someone is hurt because they don't worry about getting someone his shot.

I did want to say that even though I criticize Mudiay, Green, Niang, and Davis you have remember that the only guy who got any non minimum deal was Davis and you don't get a lot with minimum deals. being honest those 3 are probably above average for what you are getting from a minimum slot and the same for Davis. thats what happens when you basically "sign" a 30 mill PG and a 17 mill SF and you already have a max slot on the books. like I can't stress how terrible Conley and Ingles have been this year and we are still not in that bad of shape.

I am struggling a bit right now with metrics vs what I see. I think Conley is worse than the numbers indicate. I feel he is being babied and protected a bit. He is typically only on the court with Gobert who has been one of the few bright spots on the team. As long as Gobert is on the floor, the Jazz are competitive. So Conley's numbers I think are protected a bit by having Gobert on the floor.

In addition to the on court stuff, I have heard the locker room and culture of the team has taken a step back from last year. Wasn't that supposed to be Conley's biggest advantage? All the vets we brought in were supposed to be great locker room guys and yet guys are not passing, not trying hard all the time, etc.

This feels like Conley's farewell tour more than him being a key member of a championship team.

Trading him (if we can find anyone that would take him) would be our best move. His value is only going to get worse, at least right now, someone may believe he just didn't fit with the Jazz as opposed to he just isn't that good anymore.

Have seen some articles past 24 hours that says Joe Ingles looks to be the most comfortable running the pick and role, especially with Rudy. Which pick and roll with Rudy should be the focal point of our offense.

Offensively our weakness is PG and defensively our weakness is against size (larger PFs). Turning Conley into a descent PF would be ideal, then moving Conley would open up space for Joe to start at PG. We go from a team that is too small, to one of the larger teams in the league, which has shown to matter this year for whatever reason. I imagine that will help our rebounding as well.

I doubt the Jazz would even entertain trading conley. being honest if conley was hitting a few shots near the rim I would even say that he was playing great. He and mitchell need to drop the floater from 5 feet. that shot just never goes in for either of them.

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Originally Posted by dhopisthename

I doubt the Jazz would even entertain trading conley. being honest if conley was hitting a few shots near the rim I would even say that he was playing great. He and mitchell need to drop the floater from 5 feet. that shot just never goes in for either of them.

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So my issues with Conley:

Below average defender. Was Average to slightly above average for career... but in age, he is getting attacked left and right.

Bad rebounder. Bigger issue with us having a small PF.

Attack first PG, not pass first. So not great at creating things for others.

Max contract this year and next, his salary handcuffs us. Yes, our bench is weak, but not much we can do about it when so much of our money is tied up in this player

To me... I think they brought him in with the idea that he would be a high efficiency 20 PPG scorer. His open catch and shoot numbers were great last year, one of best in league. So I think they thought that they could get him alot of open shots this year. Then they thought it would take pressure off of Donovan so he didn't always have to be the creater.

So I understand the logic... but defenses aren't leaving 3 point shooters this year, so Conley isn't getting open shots. When he does get them, he isn't hitting them. And he can't create for others, he drives, gets stuck, then throws up horrible floater. So even if he settles down and plays better, I don't think the environment exists anymore in which they thought he would be a good fit because of how defenses have changed strategy this year.

If he could do those things, then I would be ok keeping him

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Originally Posted by Raupie

So my issues with Conley:

Below average defender. Was Average to slightly above average for career... but in age, he is getting attacked left and right.

Bad rebounder. Bigger issue with us having a small PF.

Attack first PG, not pass first. So not great at creating things for others.

Max contract this year and next, his salary handcuffs us. Yes, our bench is weak, but not much we can do about it when so much of our money is tied up in this player

To me... I think they brought him in with the idea that he would be a high efficiency 20 PPG scorer. His open catch and shoot numbers were great last year, one of best in league. So I think they thought that they could get him alot of open shots this year. Then they thought it would take pressure off of Donovan so he didn't always have to be the creater.

So I understand the logic... but defenses aren't leaving 3 point shooters this year, so Conley isn't getting open shots. When he does get them, he isn't hitting them. And he can't create for others, he drives, gets stuck, then throws up horrible floater. So even if he settles down and plays better, I don't think the environment exists anymore in which they thought he would be a good fit because of how defenses have changed strategy this year.

If he could do those things, then I would be ok keeping him

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I would disagree about him being a below average defender. sure a below average rebounder, but he is a PG and we are the 3rd best defensive rebounding team in the league. yes our offensive rebounding sucks, but that probably wouldn't change even if we had russell westbrook. The jazz wanted a attack first PG and he is still getting quite a few assists. Rubio was a pass first PG and we were all ready to get rid of him. yes his contract this year will be a burden, but next year we will have exceptions and other stuff to get our bench better. I will 100% agree that his efficiency has to be better. its been a joke right now at .495 ts% and thats with him hitting 37% of his 3pt shots. I think this teams problem has been that Conley and Mitchell are just setting for all these midrange jumpers and floaters and unless your hitting about 50% of those you can't have an efficient offense. Donovan has more space then ever, but he can't finish over guys at the rim.

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Originally Posted by Raupie

I am struggling a bit right now with metrics vs what I see. I think Conley is worse than the numbers indicate. I feel he is being babied and protected a bit. He is typically only on the court with Gobert who has been one of the few bright spots on the team. As long as Gobert is on the floor, the Jazz are competitive. So Conley's numbers I think are protected a bit by having Gobert on the floor.

In addition to the on court stuff, I have heard the locker room and culture of the team has taken a step back from last year. Wasn't that supposed to be Conley's biggest advantage? All the vets we brought in were supposed to be great locker room guys and yet guys are not passing, not trying hard all the time, etc.

This feels like Conley's farewell tour more than him being a key member of a championship team.

Trading him (if we can find anyone that would take him) would be our best move. His value is only going to get worse, at least right now, someone may believe he just didn't fit with the Jazz as opposed to he just isn't that good anymore.

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Well Conley supposedly never wanted to be here in the first place and he's gonna get paid no matter what he does. It certainly is depressing seeing how bad the Jazz have been especially offensively the last several weeks. Just aren't a good team right now. I'm still hoping they have a turnaround in them and can get it going. Also depressing is the lack of defense lately. We aren't gonna win many games giving up 120pts. Rudy can only do so much, we are missing the defense that Rubio, Favors, and especially Crowder provided. Crowder brought an intensity and attitude to the team that we are sorely missing right now.

IMO there is zero chance we trade Conley. This organization doesn't believe in doing business like that. I'm sure the players appreciate it. We have committed to him, and he is going nowhere. Yes he has struggled, but it is waaaaaaaay to early. It takes some time to develop chemistry. It takes some time to learn Quinn's complicated system.

I get why everyone is upset. They are not playing well. Their confidence is down. But they are just not passing the ball. There are some new guys on this team that have not caught on to the blender. The system works. I trust Quinn 100%. He knows what he is doing. If some of these guys can't catch on to the vision of this team we need to sit them on the bench. Green and Mudiay have got to learn to make the extra pass.

Crowder and Favors were not the answer. That was the right move. It's time to trade Exum and a filler for a big man.

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Crowder and Favors were not the answer. That was the right move. It's time to trade Exum and a filler for a big man.

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I just miss Crowder's intensity. He was inconsistent on offense but so is Jeff Green and at least you knew that Crowder was gonna bring it every game whether his shot was falling or not, same with Rubio. If Green/Conley played like that we'd be in a lot better shape.

yeah with the way things broke down I definitely would have preferred crowder over Exum. this teams love of exum drives me crazy

Congrats to Bojan on tying the franchise record for 3pt makes. Needed every one of them against the sorry *** Warriors.

man I bet the ratio of us giving up 3 free throws to getting 3 free throws has to be like 5-1. we give up 1-2 of those a game, but we can't ever get one. Also another quick PG just tearing us apart. its pathetic how easy it is for them.

this team is so bad its unbelievable. if the west was any better I would worry about them making the playoffs.

and by bad I mean unbelievably fustrating. I can't believe how bad this bench is. it shouldn't be this bad. Part of it right now is that Conley is hurt, but still they are just giving up like 10-0 runs on the regular.