Around the NBA thread 2019-20

Masai is doing a pretty great job this year all things considered.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

I don’t think Nurse is any better than Stevens.

I think the Celtics are struggling because they’re missing the hell out of Smart who is one of their best defenders. and Walkers injury has lead him to missing a bunch of games and now he’s being load managed and sits out back to backs etc

Nurse is a good coach, but let’s be real this is the first season where he has a real challenge with a flawed roster. Last two seasons he had stacked rosters to work with. This is the first flawed version of the Raptors that’s he’s had to coach, and I think that’s the ultimate test.

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I think he has coached amazingly this season.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

I don’t think Nurse is any better than Stevens.

I think the Celtics are struggling because they’re missing the hell out of Smart who is one of their best defenders. and Walkers injury has lead him to missing a bunch of games and now he’s being load managed and sits out back to backs etc

Nurse is a good coach, but let’s be real this is the first season where he has a real challenge with a flawed roster. Last two seasons he had stacked rosters to work with. This is the first flawed version of the Raptors that’s he’s had to coach, and I think that’s the ultimate test.

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Their record and talent is inconsequential to me. I'm just looking at their coaching. I thought Brett Brown was a good development coach even when he was losing games every night and Hinkie was fielding a roster full of g-leaguers. I don't really believe in a results based analysis when it comes to this sort of thing. There are a lot of terrible coaches who win and win a lot.

Stevens peaked when he had a no-name roster with 0 expectations. He has struggled adapting to a top heavy roster and handling egos. The whole Kyrie fiasco buffered a lot of his coaching flaws. He has also never instilled a level of culture and enthusiasm to the same degree as his peers. I just don't see the vision. That doesn't mean he is not a good coach, he's just not as good as people thought he would be.

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

I don’t know about Steven’s being overrated. He measures up head to head with nurse. Nurse, Steven’s, and Kerr are the best in the league rn imo. They check all the boxes.

Ainge could be overrated though. I assume Masai would have maximized that BKN haul better than he did.

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Overrated doesn't mean bad. A couple of years ago they asked if you were a GM would rather start a team with any player in the league or Brad Stevens, and 40% of people said Stevens. People were anointing him as the next Pop after a year. He's definitely not rated properly.

Stevens is better at X's and O's but Nurse is way more versatile and charismatic. Nurse can draw up some dumbass play and you would be hyped to execute it. Not only is that half the battle but I think that is really important for culture building and managing egos. You see that with guys like Kerr, Pop etc. You can be technically right all the time but if people don't like you and you don't inspire them, people couldn't care less.

Ainge is just really good at trolling Celtics fans about all the almost trades he could have done.

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

I think he has coached amazingly this season.

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Don’t get me wrong bro, I think he’s doing well too. I just think this season is his first real challenge as a head coach in the nba. I’m happy with Nurse but he kinda got lucky the way Kerr did by taking on a team that was primed and ready to contend. I think both coaches have their hands full now and ultimately to me that is the biggest test. You’re right he’s done pretty well this season considering we have a glaring hole at the 5 and lack real depth compared to last season.

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Originally Posted by ecart

Their record and talent is inconsequential to me. I'm just looking at their coaching. I thought Brett Brown was a good development coach even when he was losing games every night and Hinkie was fielding a roster full of g-leaguers. I don't really believe in a results based analysis when it comes to this sort of thing. There are a lot of terrible coaches who win and win a lot.

Stevens peaked when he had a no-name roster with 0 expectations. He has struggled adapting to a top heavy roster and handling egos. The whole Kyrie fiasco buffered a lot of his coaching flaws. He has also never instilled a level of culture and enthusiasm to the same degree as his peers. I just don't see the vision. That doesn't mean he is not a good coach, he's just not as good as people thought he would be.



Overrated doesn't mean bad. A couple of years ago they asked if you were a GM would rather start a team with any player in the league or Brad Stevens, and 40% of people said Stevens. People were anointing him as the next Pop after a year. He's definitely not rated properly.

Stevens is better at X's and O's but Nurse is way more versatile and charismatic. Nurse can draw up some dumbass play and you would be hyped to execute it. Not only is that half the battle but I think that is really important for culture building and managing egos. You see that with guys like Kerr, Pop etc. You can be technically right all the time but if people don't like you and you don't inspire them, people couldn't care less.

Ainge is just really good at trolling Celtics fans about all the almost trades he could have done.

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Honestly, I wouldn’t wish Kyrie on to any coach. But yeah I get what you’re saying. It makes a lot of sense.

Side observation, when I listen to Brad Stevens talk I tend to want to fall asleep. I don’t sense any enthusiasm or excitement from him. Maybe he’s mono tone I dunno. But when Nurse speaks you can hear the love and passion he has for the game. I like that he is fiery.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

Don’t get me wrong bro, I think he’s doing well too. I just think this season is his first real challenge as a head coach in the nba. I’m happy with Nurse but he kinda got lucky the way Kerr did by taking on a team that was primed and ready to contend. I think both coaches have their hands full now and ultimately to me that is the biggest test. You’re right he’s done pretty well this season considering we have a glaring hole at the 5 and lack real depth compared to last season.

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And no home! I’m amazed how well they’ve adapted to this season. I agree this is his biggest test, but I’d say he’s been passing with flying colours. His early confidence in Powell and siakam seemed to cost us early, but look now.

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

Masai is doing a pretty great job this year all things considered.

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idk feels like Masai doesn't even exist and is a fictional character made up by Bobby tbh

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

And no home! I’m amazed how well they’ve adapted to this season. I agree this is his biggest test, but I’d say he’s been passing with flying colours. His early confidence in Powell and siakam seemed to cost us early, but look now.

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The home thing I don’t get, these guys all came out of the states. It’s not like Toronto is where they are from bro, and Tampa is beautiful and warm. It’s not like they missed winter in Toronto. really the team is being exposed as to who they really are and it wouldn’t be any different if they were in Toronto. We’ve lost a lot of pieces and depth and it was inevitable.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

The home thing I don’t get, these guys all came out of the states. It’s not like Toronto is where they are from bro, and Tampa is beautiful and warm. It’s not like they missed winter in Toronto. really the team is being exposed as to who they really are and it wouldn’t be any different if they were in Toronto. We’ve lost a lot of pieces and depth and it was inevitable.

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I mean, they are living out of a hotel instead of going to their houses and apartments at night. I'm sure that takes some adjustment and takes a toll. I'm not arguing that this would have been a good season if not for that. I think I've been clear that our lack of a real center and our dearth of talent on the bench, in my opinion is our biggest issue. However, I don't think that being in Tampa is a non-factor. Remember the Celtics game where the few fans in the stands were cheering for the Celtics and booing the Raptors? That has an effect.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

The home thing I don’t get, these guys all came out of the states. It’s not like Toronto is where they are from bro, and Tampa is beautiful and warm. It’s not like they missed winter in Toronto. really the team is being exposed as to who they really are and it wouldn’t be any different if they were in Toronto. We’ve lost a lot of pieces and depth and it was inevitable.

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It’s about playing in front of your fans. The crowd has a huge impact on a basketball team - as shown in the home/away splits across the league every season.

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Originally Posted by Saint Raptor

I mean, they are living out of a hotel instead of going to their houses and apartments at night. I'm sure that takes some adjustment and takes a toll. I'm not arguing that this would have been a good season if not for that. I think I've been clear that our lack of a real center and our dearth of talent on the bench, in my opinion is our biggest issue. However, I don't think that being in Tampa is a non-factor. Remember the Celtics game where the few fans in the stands were cheering for the Celtics and booing the Raptors? That has an effect.

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To a degree but their struggles were inevitable. Look you guys are intelligent fans, show me any other team in the league that can lose the likes of Kawhi, Green, Ibaka, Gasol, and go from a 2nd over all team defensive rating to a 22nd and some how still stay a float.

even if they were in Toronto they would have no fans. This isn’t a Tampa problem, the team itself has lost a lot of talent and replaced them with marginal NBA talent such as Baynes, Bembry, Johnson in the rotation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what has happened and I just think making excuses makes us look bad rather than accepting the reality for what it is and being proactive.

Every contender eventually fizzles out. This isn’t anything new. A lot of fans expected this nose dive last year. But really our team defence fell apart when we lost our bigs and we haven’t been able to recover from that. Now I’ve been preaching rebuild simply because I know that teams who manage their assets wisely and boldly in these situations always fair better than the ones who ride it until the wheels fall off and squander their assets. How we start this rebuild and when, is vital to the next era of raptors basketball hence why I’m so eager to get it started. Watching so many free agents leave with no return has hurt us. It will hurt us further if we continue with the pattern. I’m excited to see what Masai and Bobby are planning, because I know these dead line moves will be a big indicator of direction.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

To a degree but their struggles were inevitable. Look you guys are intelligent fans, show me any other team in the league that can lose the likes of Kawhi, Green, Ibaka, Gasol, and go from a 2nd over all team defensive rating to a 22nd. It’s not about being in Toronto, or not being in front of fans. The entire post season was played in a bubble. Even teams with fans, are not in attendance by the thousands. Also even if they were in Toronto they would have no fans. This isn’t a Tampa problem, the team itself has lost a lot of talent and replaced them with marginal NBA players such as Baynes, Bembry, Johnson in the rotation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what has happened and I just think making excuses makes us look bad rather than accepting the reality for what it is and being proactive. Every contender eventually fizzles out. This isn’t anything new. A lot of fans expected this nose dive last year. But really our team defence fell apart when we lost our bigs and we haven’t been able to recover from that. Now I’ve been preaching rebuild simply because I know that teams who manage their assets wisely and boldly in these situations always fair better than the ones who ride it until the wheels fall off and squander their assets. How we start this rebuild and when, is vital to the next era of raptors basketball hence why I’m so eager to get it started. Watching so many free agents leave with no return has hurt is. It will hurt is further if we continue with the pattern. I’m excited to see what Masai and Bobby are planning.

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I’m 100% convinced we wouldn’t have stumbled so hard at the beginning of the season if we had some home games with our fans.
Took them a while to get used to playing in an empty arena but they eventually figured it out, and the covid hit us.

And pretty sure you and I have been driving the tank for a while now. I see this season as the perfect time to turn the page. I agree with you there.

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

I’m 100% convinced we wouldn’t have stumbled so hard at the beginning of the season if we had some home games with our fans.
Took them a while to get used to playing in an empty arena but they eventually figured it out, and the covid hit us.

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Understood. However my counter to that is that the cream rises to the top. This team as constructed was never going to be all that successful this year. I think you’re attributing the losses more so due to covid than the fact that our team has lost alot of talent. People look at the first 4-5 guys in the rotation and think it’s the same team. It’s not, it’s not even close.

You can put this same exact squad in Toronto with fans and what, they get 20 more wins and a trip to the conference finals? Look at the roster my guy, that wasn’t in the cards this year. First round exit at best.

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

And pretty sure you and I have been driving the tank for a while now. I see this season as the perfect time to turn the page. I agree with you there.

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Absolutely bro. If it took a COVID riddled season to force the hand of inevitably to go in to high gear I’m ok with that.

Just hearing that Lowry wants a 2 year $50 mill extension makes me believes he is 100% leaving in the off-season if someone is willing to give him that and I certainly hope it’s not Masai. So yes get those assets. Pile em up and let’s fast track this mf rebuild.