:laugh:
Printable View
:laugh:
I suppose a lot of LBJ's teammates and those who competed against both in their primes (not to mention some of the most respected players of all time) must not all be there, huh? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/and-...lebron.703710/
Act like itQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
They loved Kobe competitive fire that was shared with MJ the one thing Lebron lacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
I know we have been at this for a while :D. MJ is the goat in everyone eyes and the only other player that has that killer scoring mentality besides MJ was Kobe. So he must be the closest but its not so simple. Kobe was relentless and would go 1vs5 so these guys saw that first hand. However Lebron is the bigger stronger more all around player and would rather pass the ball than going 1vs5. To some they look at it as being timid and dont have that relentless drive like Kobe. Being more passive make it seem like Kobe was better but hes not.
Lets look at Magic. Kobe is the better player right? Well magic have 5 rings to and his career was cut short. Won a ring as a rookie with no Kareem who was viewed as the best player on the team. from PG to playing Center
If Lebron wanted to be an offensive minded player he could have but hes more gifted.
Let lebron complete his career and come back and ask them later. all they keep saying is Kobe was more competitive but thats not the question.
I'm not sure Kobe is better than Magic, actually...and that's not what those guy are saying. Go look up each of the links.Quote:
Originally Posted by ldawg
I honestly thought this debate was settled in 2013, it's Lebron by a mile. Kobe is a top 10-15 player all time, but Lebron is the 2nd greatest player of all time and the only player who can be compared to Jordan. Jordan has the peak, but Lebron will have the longevity. Kobe doesn't hold a candle, and that's a testament to Lebron, not a knock on Kobe.
cause players, and ex-players, are so awesome at evaluation hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
Kobe the legend is far better than the real version of kobe.
Kobe was such a god aweful chucker, that opposing teams scouting report said its a good thing if kobe shoots a terrible shot and makes it because that meant he would shoot 3 more right after that everytime he touched the ball.
Kobes undeserved finals mvps, and rings that his bigs delivered to him, made him look far better than he really was.
Why did Kobe not deserve finals MVP? Against Boston Kobe led 6 out of 7 games in scoring. Only game he didn’t lead in scoring was when Allen broke the most 3 pointers made in a finals game. That’s what it took to keep up with Kobe.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL
Kobe won a title with Gasol who wasn’t even a top 5 player at his position in his own confrence
Jordan
FixedQuote:
Originally Posted by LaVar Ball
Both are amazing players but Lebron the BEST!
I have to be honest I didn't watch much of Lebron before he got to LA but what I have seen is a player who pushes teammates out of the way for rebounds, holds the ball for the entire shot clock to wait for an assist pass and when one doesn't come passes to a covered teammate so they can take the last second shot to protect Lebron's shooting percentage and efficiency. No defense and couldn't even make the playoffs. I'd take last year Kobe over what I saw from Lebron this last season.
Players on the floor generally know who the better players are, as do teammates. Most analysts are mostly former players at some level (usually former pros or college players). The big difference however is that "analysts" work for a company and there is a monetary incentive to push whatever current players are in the league. It essentially amounts to propaganda. It's not marketable to say "our current players (i.e., product) are pretty good, but they aren't as good as our players from 10 years ago. That is, analysts have an incentive to sell a product, former players and teammates (especially those that aren't analysts) do not. I would go with the people who arent trying to sell me something on these type of matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye15
Shhhh, you're going to upset the ESPN-driven narrative lol. Excellent observation though. That's actually why LBJ has inflated stats. There are several other great players who could put up those type of numbers (if not better) if they played that style, but that's not really a winning style of basketball, and hence why LBJ has needed to play on super teams to win titles. I've always been of the opinion that if LBJ played a more winning type of basketball he would have a lot more titles, but might not have the numbers to back up being in the top 10 (although he still might because he is a great player). To me, winning is far more important though.Quote:
Originally Posted by michael811
Good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
His bigs delivered him a title?? Kobe was the best all-around player in the league in 2001 and 2002 (arguably in 2000 as well) and was the second best player in the league during the last two of the 3-peat. He was the best player in the league in 2009 and 2010 and won a title without another superstar. How exactly did Gasol deliver Kobe 2 titles? Kobe is frankly the only superstar to ever win a title (besides Dirk) in the past 40 years without another superstar teammate and definitely the only one to win a back-to-back.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL
Also, your post implies that kobe was inefficient, which is frankly demonstrably false. Kobe shot 45% for his career from the field (and did it without guarding his percentage). That's simply not inefficient even by todays standards where defenses can't guard players so fg% and scoring are way up as a result. More importantly, for the massive majority of Kobe's career, his fg% was actually above the league average, that is, he was above average in terms of efficiency (which is inflated by big men who don't take outside shots). Sorry to burst your bubble there buddy, but look it up for yourself (that also ignores that kobe played through a ton of injuries, many of which he was supposed to be out for weeks and sometimes months, which led to a decrease in his percentage).
:clap:
Players on the floor and teammates are still claiming Carmelo Anthony is a good player. Obviously, their analysis is not foolproof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
What are you even taking about man? You understand he has played more than anyone in nba history? Aside from maaaaaybe one player still.Quote:
Originally Posted by michael811
And he's still an elite player , playoff LeBron is still the guy you want leading your team.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
I don't think it's possible to be an NBA fan for the past 10-15 years and not have watched much of LeBron prior to his first season with the Lakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by blams
Yeah, but that's out of respect and reputation, because he once was an excellent player. Very few former teammates/players are going to openly say melo sucks. Those players are essentially being nice. That's different though than saying Player A is better than Player B, especially when the players saying that are your former teammates, one of whom happens to be your best friend (as was the case with D. Wade picking Kobe over LBJ).Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
A lot of people mostly only watch the games their team plays. If that's the case for him, he wouldn't have seen LBJ play unless he played against the lakers (if that's his favorite team).Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
And I'm sure a lot of players would say Player A is better than Player B out of respect and reputation as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
I know of no one who watches literally only their own team. I know of plenty of people who watch mostly or predominantly their own team, but even they usually watch other games like at least the playoffs or Finals. I mean, he's essentially saying he hasn't watched the playoffs or Finals for the past 8 years, since LeBron was in every Finals performance minus last year dating back to 2011. Basically, if you have watched any basketball the past 10 years, the one person you'd be likely to have seen the most outside of your own team is LeBron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
I think that's a lot different. Saying someone is still good has no ramifications. Picking one player over another, especially if you were teammates with one of them is going to carry weight. If I'm Wade, no way would I ever openly pick someone over LBJ, unless I actually felt really strongly about it, because I would know that people would weigh that heavily. I'd give some diplomatic response, like "they're both great players and you can't go wrong with either one" or "it's so hard to pick because they're both so great". In Wade's case, if I'm remembering correctly, he volunteered his take when a reporter asked him how it felt to be teammates with the player of the generation, to which he replied that's Kobe not LBJ (or something to that effect).Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
Lol I agree that most people watch like that. I've seen a lot of LBJ, but that seems to be what the dude is saying lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
So Wade didn't even actually say Kobe was better, only that Kobe was the player of his generation, not LBJ? Players state certain players are better than others for a variety of reasons. In fact, most players will say their idols were better than their contemporaries. Another big reason players pick certain players over others is rings, which we know is a very imperfect reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
That's true, but to me, it's a little different when former teammates and rivals of both are picking one over the other, because they have first hand knowledge of playing with and against those players. I think you have fair point if guys who haven't played with or against Kobe are picking him over LBJ because kobe was their idol growing up. But there are multiple teammates of LBJ who have picked Kobe (e.g., shaq, wade, bosh, Kyrie, as well as some less well known teammates) as well as elite defenders who guarded both (e.g., tony Allen, Iggy, Kawhi). If I go to someone's work place and I ask who's the best employee and mostly everyone says "Bob", I'm not going to outright dismiss that.Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
All they loved about Kobe over Lebron was his determination. He’s going to come at you and score no mater what defensive scheme you throw at him. Lebron makes the basketball play so it seems like he’s limited since he don’t force things but hands down he’s the more skilled and better player of the two. Kobe was traded to a better situation where as lebron was stuck in Cleveland and had to leave to win then returned to give them 1. He’s won in two different systems and 1 with a rookie coach.
When Lebron career is over those guys will change their tune.
And Kobe won a back-to-back as the lone superstar, whereas LBJ has always had 2 superstars. To my point however, you have absolutely no support that those guys picked Kobe over LBJ because of his determination. You're basically making it up. Show me one of those guys, just one, who said "I pick Kobe over LBJ because of his determination". If you can't, you really should stop saying that because you're basically making things up. It's one thing to think that one player is better than another player. It's completely different to literally make things up. It's one thing if you THINK that that is why those guys pick Kobe, but go ahead and make sure to say "I have no idea why they picked Kobe, but I am going to baselessly speculate that it's because of his determination", because that is what you are doing. You have no idea why all of those guys pick Kobe (and neither do any of us) so maybe it's best to take them at their word and not try to make things up to fit your narrative. If you actually bothered to read the link I posted you would see that many of them explain why and they usually talk abut skill and the many greater arsenal of weapons that they say kobe had (don't take my word for it, go ahead and go through that long list and then come back), but don't come with that determination nonsense, because they frankly didn't say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ldawg
Pau played a very important role in winning those rings. Maybe to most he was not a top tier star but he was a star big man in the league. May have been the most skilled big at that time. When pau joined Lakers he elevated Odom and they had great chemistry in the triangle. Teamed that with Kobe they and they formed a very good team.
Pure nonsense dude. Odom has said that during that run a lot of the times he would show up to games drunk and high. I love Pau, but he wasn't a superstar. He was a good all-star caliber player (and the numbers show just that).Quote:
Originally Posted by ldawg
Well i can’t go in their head but given when they said what they said and while one player is retired and 1 still playing how can you come to a conclusion when they are also counting rings. I am not counting rings lebron is just the better and more versatile player.
Yes, we can't go into their heads so stop making things up lol. We can however go off of what they are saying. For some reason, you think that you know more than the guys they played with. No offense, but I'll go with their teammates and rivals on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ldawg
That not saying Kobe was not a bad man. If you had to choose the better sg that’s Kobe all day. But Lebron can average the same amount of points as Kobe, play 1-4 and plays more efficiently. Kobe just had a Motor that everyone admired.
Pau > Love or Bosh or KyrieQuote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
Certainly not based on their statistical outputs. Not that close either. They put up much better numbers than Pau ever did in their best years and then put up better numbers while playing alongside LBJ than Pau did playing along Kobe. If you want to argue some intangibles then that's fine, but you've been all about the statistical output so that's what I'm sticking to here (although you know my position on using stats in basketball).Quote:
Originally Posted by IKnowHoops
i am going off what they are saying. Besides Mj is considered the goat right? And who played just like the goat? Kobe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03