Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

If all this happens and business is forced to operate more efficiently…then comes the call for $20 minimum wage and Universal Basic Income because there are now less jobs and higher prices.

And round and round we go.

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well, perhaps we can offset some burger flippers being laid off with actually tapping into the next trillion dollar industry-the green industry.

In all reality, labor costs may be lower than they should be. However, profits amongst the higher earning corporations are way inflated, and systemizing that alone would offset the cost of goods if there were a rise due to labor cost rise.

I work at a trucking company with 550 employees, 375 of them drivers. Of the 150 office staff, all but 15 make under 85k a year. We have 3 people making over 200k, another few percent over 100k, then around 8-9 making that 85-99k.

My question is, why does a CEO need to make upwards of 4 times more than a dispatcher? Or, why does a CEO of a major corporation make 15-20 times more than a mid level employee?

Wage gap is way more of a concern than min wage, and needs to be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

well, perhaps we can offset some burger flippers being laid off with actually tapping into the next trillion dollar industry-the green industry.

In all reality, labor costs may be lower than they should be. However, profits amongst the higher earning corporations are way inflated, and systemizing that alone would offset the cost of goods if there were a rise due to labor cost rise.

I work at a trucking company with 550 employees, 375 of them drivers. Of the 150 office staff, all but 15 make under 85k a year. We have 3 people making over 200k, another few percent over 100k, then around 8-9 making that 85-99k.

My question is, why does a CEO need to make upwards of 4 times more than a dispatcher? Or, why does a CEO of a major corporation make 15-20 times more than a mid level employee?

Wage gap is way more of a concern than min wage, and needs to be addressed.

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And 361 times what the average rank-and-file worker makes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahe.../#3803ec11776d

“In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year.”

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Originally Posted by Crovash

And 361 times what the average rank-and-file worker makes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahe.../#3803ec11776d

“In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year.”

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and that has to stop. I am not saying go Robin Hood on this, but we can't have the top portion of 1% making so much while all the worker bees struggle to keep their head above water.

These guys making this kind of money…

It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

The money moves.

That movement moves other money etc. etc. etc.

Every time you try to block the natural movement of money, the net results do more harm than good.

I'd rather see restrictions on how some people spend their money.

I can't afford a Mercedes…but I can get one.
I can't afford a half million dollar home (pretty nice digs in Florida)…but I can get one.
I can't afford a month long European vacation…but I could take one.
I can't afford certain types of equipment for my business…but I can get whatever I want.

People in the lower and middle classes (probably more so the middle class) show little self control, dig themselves into holes and then cry about it.

People with cell phones lining up for the next cell phone. People with big screens camping out for the black Friday sale on the super big screens etc.

Maybe more enforced control or some self control would go a long way to solving many of people's financial issues.

I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

These guys making this kind of money…

It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

The money moves.

That movement moves other money etc. etc. etc.

Every time you try to block the natural movement of money, the net results do more harm than good.

I'd rather see restrictions on how some people spend their money.

I can't afford a Mercedes…but I can get one.
I can't afford a half million dollar home (pretty nice digs in Florida)…but I can get one.
I can't afford a month long European vacation…but I could take one.
I can't afford certain types of equipment for my business…but I can get whatever I want.

People in the lower and middle classes (probably more so the middle class) show little self control, dig themselves into holes and then cry about it.

People with cell phones lining up for the next cell phone. People with big screens camping out for the black Friday sale on the super big screens etc.

Maybe more enforced control or some self control would go a long way to solving many of people's financial issues.

I dunno.

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then you believe in trickle down. I don't. Blocking the natural movement? Dude, that is exactly what the top has done. it stops with them, the minions get enough to survive.

You can point to decision making all you want, that has nothing to do with wage gap. I know people making 200k or more a year that have no savings.

Tell me this, if you make $60k a year (this is actually above the household mean), can you afford:

Single family home in a good school district
College for 2-3 kids
Retirement savings to be able to retire by 65
1-2 cars
Health costs that aren't covered by insurance
Power, water, phone
Food, fuel, clothing


The answer, is no, unless you are in a handful of states. Thing is, 30 years ago, a mechanics salary raised a family with 2-3 kids, sent them to college, and gave you retirement.

Wages aint keeping up with inflation, the divide grows by the year from top to bottom, and all your talk about how business works is fine, and has some validity depending on WHAT KIND of business it is, but none of that helps people. You want people to stop having kids if they can't afford it, fine. Good luck with all that. So now what, since you live amongst an irresponsible population that can't control themselves? Should we just let a CEO make $14,000,000 a year while your neighbor struggles to make it?

You also act like people are robots. What kind of life is working until you die? There has to be a balance. Once you die, you are dirt. No way it needs to be spent working day and night.

So I ask you, what has changed over the last 30 years that a respectable, average job can no longer afford a comfortable, secure life for a family? If your answer is "personal responsibility and choices", well, you are missing the boat.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

These guys making this kind of money…

It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

The money moves.

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It sure does...offshore.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

These guys making this kind of money…

It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

The money moves.

That movement moves other money etc. etc. etc.

Every time you try to block the natural movement of money, the net results do more harm than good.

I'd rather see restrictions on how some people spend their money.

I can't afford a Mercedes…but I can get one.
I can't afford a half million dollar home (pretty nice digs in Florida)…but I can get one.
I can't afford a month long European vacation…but I could take one.
I can't afford certain types of equipment for my business…but I can get whatever I want.

People in the lower and middle classes (probably more so the middle class) show little self control, dig themselves into holes and then cry about it.

People with cell phones lining up for the next cell phone. People with big screens camping out for the black Friday sale on the super big screens etc.

Maybe more enforced control or some self control would go a long way to solving many of people's financial issues.

I dunno.

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Duck tales isn’t a comic book. How do you expect people to take you seriously?


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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

then you believe in trickle down. I don't. Blocking the natural movement? Dude, that is exactly what the top has done. it stops with them, the minions get enough to survive.

You can point to decision making all you want, that has nothing to do with wage gap. I know people making 200k or more a year that have no savings.

Tell me this, if you make $60k a year (this is actually above the household mean), can you afford:

Single family home in a good school district
College for 2-3 kids
Retirement savings to be able to retire by 65
1-2 cars
Health costs that aren't covered by insurance
Power, water, phone
Food, fuel, clothing


The answer, is no, unless you are in a handful of states. Thing is, 30 years ago, a mechanics salary raised a family with 2-3 kids, sent them to college, and gave you retirement.

Wages aint keeping up with inflation, the divide grows by the year from top to bottom, and all your talk about how business works is fine, and has some validity depending on WHAT KIND of business it is, but none of that helps people. You want people to stop having kids if they can't afford it, fine. Good luck with all that. So now what, since you live amongst an irresponsible population that can't control themselves? Should we just let a CEO make $14,000,000 a year while your neighbor struggles to make it?

You also act like people are robots. What kind of life is working until you die? There has to be a balance. Once you die, you are dirt. No way it needs to be spent working day and night.

So I ask you, what has changed over the last 30 years that a respectable, average job can no longer afford a comfortable, secure life for a family? If your answer is "personal responsibility and choices", well, you are missing the boat.

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Thank you.


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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

then you believe in trickle down. I don't. Blocking the natural movement? Dude, that is exactly what the top has done. it stops with them, the minions get enough to survive.

You can point to decision making all you want, that has nothing to do with wage gap. I know people making 200k or more a year that have no savings.

Tell me this, if you make $60k a year (this is actually above the household mean), can you afford:

Single family home in a good school district
College for 2-3 kids
Retirement savings to be able to retire by 65
1-2 cars
Health costs that aren't covered by insurance
Power, water, phone
Food, fuel, clothing


The answer, is no, unless you are in a handful of states. Thing is, 30 years ago, a mechanics salary raised a family with 2-3 kids, sent them to college, and gave you retirement.

Wages the company can afford keeping up with inflation, the divide grows by the year from top to bottom, and all your talk about how business works is fine, and has some validity depending on WHAT KIND of business it is, but none of that helps people. You want people to stop having kids if they can't afford it, fine. Good luck with all that. So now what, since you live amongst an irresponsible population that can't control themselves? Should we just let a CEO make $14,000,000 a year while your neighbor struggles to make it?

You also act like people are robots. What kind of life is working until you die? There has to be a balance. Once you die, you are dirt. No way it needs to be spent working day and night.

So I ask you, what has changed over the last 30 years that a respectable, average job can no longer afford a comfortable, secure life for a family? If your answer is "personal responsibility and choices", well, you are missing the boat.

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Bolded…It doesn't stop with them unless they stick it in their mattress and sit on it.m If they put it in the bank or into some investment, the money moves.

Stop having kids if you can't afford it??? You shouldn't do anything you can't afford.

Re: the CEO making $14 mil a year. Does he make all that or is a lot of it stock options based on his success. And even if it is a cash outlay to his pocket, I guess the company can afford it or they wouldn't pay it, and quite possible if he wasn't paid that amount he wouldn't be working so hard to get it.

Why is the CEOs salary such an atrocity to people but athletes, rockers, movie stars, the entire entertainment business salaries never an issue? I never understood that.

What has changed over the last 30 years that affects having a comfortable secure life…that's easy…stuff. Tons of stuff that is considered normal today that never required an outlay of cash years ago. I spend approx $6 thousand a year on cell phones and television service (and I don't have a cell phone. Wife and kids have theirs). Another $6 thousand or so on car insurance. Heaven forbid any one take mass transit. Drive everywhere with navi systems. House with a pool…common in many areas. Eat out 5-6 times a month. Clothes are bought, worn for about a year and replaced…never gets repaired. Always have to be in style. Bourbon…can only buy premium bourbon. Can't just serve scotch…gotta be single malt. Beer that's not craft beer with a funny name…seriously? There's just more stuff to spend money on and easy to do even you have no money.

I think some adjustments are necessary. Maybe pay company executives some sort of percentage of bottom line (I can just see those accounting meetings). Maybe a little more realistic in how you pay employees who stick around. I definitely believe in company paid health insurance (doing this for thirty years. Getting very expensive.) Would support a reasonable national health care plan. How about a national sales tax that goes directly to some national health care plan. One in which everyone pays even thew poor.

College tuition…never hear about lowering professor's wages … any idea how much these pompous tenured people make? Can't they take a pay cut? College in Texas spent $10 million a few years ago renovating the football locker room. How can they justify high tuition when there is that kind of money around. Does every college in the state need to be building a new research facility for something…seems that way. nEverything is on line now but textbooks still go for $100+. Does that make sense.

So there is plenty of room to make adjustments…not just the $14 million CEO.

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Originally Posted by ewing

Duck tales isn’t a comic book. How do you expect people to take you seriously?


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http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/Li...8-41c710ce0e5b

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Bolded…It doesn't stop with them unless they stick it in their mattress and sit on it.m If they put it in the bank or into some investment, the money moves.

Stop having kids if you can't afford it??? You shouldn't do anything you can't afford.

Re: the CEO making $14 mil a year. Does he make all that or is a lot of it stock options based on his success. And even if it is a cash outlay to his pocket, I guess the company can afford it or they wouldn't pay it, and quite possible if he wasn't paid that amount he wouldn't be working so hard to get it.

Why is the CEOs salary such an atrocity to people but athletes, rockers, movie stars, the entire entertainment business salaries never an issue? I never understood that.

What has changed over the last 30 years that affects having a comfortable secure life…that's easy…stuff. Tons of stuff that is considered normal today that never required an outlay of cash years ago. I spend approx $6 thousand a year on cell phones and television service (and I don't have a cell phone. Wife and kids have theirs). Another $6 thousand or so on car insurance. Heaven forbid any one take mass transit. Drive everywhere with navi systems. House with a pool…common in many areas. Eat out 5-6 times a month. Clothes are bought, worn for about a year and replaced…never gets repaired. Always have to be in style. Bourbon…can only buy premium bourbon. Can't just serve scotch…gotta be single malt. Beer that's not craft beer with a funny name…seriously? There's just more stuff to spend money on and easy to do even you have no money.

I think some adjustments are necessary. Maybe pay company executives some sort of percentage of bottom line (I can just see those accounting meetings). Maybe a little more realistic in how you pay employees who stick around. I definitely believe in company paid health insurance (doing this for thirty years. Getting very expensive.) Would support a reasonable national health care plan. How about a national sales tax that goes directly to some national health care plan. One in which everyone pays even thew poor.

College tuition…never hear about lowering professor's wages … any idea how much these pompous tenured people make? Can't they take a pay cut? College in Texas spent $10 million a few years ago renovating the football locker room. How can they justify high tuition when there is that kind of money around. Does every college in the state need to be building a new research facility for something…seems that way. nEverything is on line now but textbooks still go for $100+. Does that make sense.

So there is plenty of room to make adjustments…not just the $14 million CEO.

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The problem with the middle class isn't that their pay is slowly eroding or it's harder for them to be successful, it's that they buy fancy beer with a funny name.


I will sum up all of Sluggo's arguments in a nutshell: poor people suck and everyone but the rich are losers.

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Originally Posted by valade16

The problem with the middle class isn't that their pay is slowly eroding or it's harder for them to be successful, it's that they buy fancy beer with a funny name.


I will sum up all of Sluggo's arguments in a nutshell: poor people suck and everyone but the rich are losers.

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Us millennials have been brought down by avocado toast. Trump really is trying to save us all with his wall.


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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Bolded…It doesn't stop with them unless they stick it in their mattress and sit on it.m If they put it in the bank or into some investment, the money moves.

Stop having kids if you can't afford it??? You shouldn't do anything you can't afford.

Re: the CEO making $14 mil a year. Does he make all that or is a lot of it stock options based on his success. And even if it is a cash outlay to his pocket, I guess the company can afford it or they wouldn't pay it, and quite possible if he wasn't paid that amount he wouldn't be working so hard to get it.

Why is the CEOs salary such an atrocity to people but athletes, rockers, movie stars, the entire entertainment business salaries never an issue? I never understood that.

What has changed over the last 30 years that affects having a comfortable secure life…that's easy…stuff. Tons of stuff that is considered normal today that never required an outlay of cash years ago. I spend approx $6 thousand a year on cell phones and television service (and I don't have a cell phone. Wife and kids have theirs). Another $6 thousand or so on car insurance. Heaven forbid any one take mass transit. Drive everywhere with navi systems. House with a pool…common in many areas. Eat out 5-6 times a month. Clothes are bought, worn for about a year and replaced…never gets repaired. Always have to be in style. Bourbon…can only buy premium bourbon. Can't just serve scotch…gotta be single malt. Beer that's not craft beer with a funny name…seriously? There's just more stuff to spend money on and easy to do even you have no money.

I think some adjustments are necessary. Maybe pay company executives some sort of percentage of bottom line (I can just see those accounting meetings). Maybe a little more realistic in how you pay employees who stick around. I definitely believe in company paid health insurance (doing this for thirty years. Getting very expensive.) Would support a reasonable national health care plan. How about a national sales tax that goes directly to some national health care plan. One in which everyone pays even thew poor.

College tuition…never hear about lowering professor's wages … any idea how much these pompous tenured people make? Can't they take a pay cut? College in Texas spent $10 million a few years ago renovating the football locker room. How can they justify high tuition when there is that kind of money around. Does every college in the state need to be building a new research facility for something…seems that way. nEverything is on line now but textbooks still go for $100+. Does that make sense.

So there is plenty of room to make adjustments…not just the $14 million CEO.

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Of course there are plenty of adjustments that can be made but people are pointing out a very obvious issue. If the company can afford to pay their CEO 14 million then they can also afford to pay their lower/middle class workers a living wage (15+ per hour). The idea that we can't afford a lot of these ideas is pretty ridiculous when you go around defending a CEO making 14 mil because the company must be able to afford it then.

The issue is that corporations and people at the top are making decisions for themselves and to earn more money. Nothing wrong with that but at the same time you can't ignore that is often the goal either. When they say they can't do this or that to help the society/people in this country as a whole what they really mean is they don't wan't to because it cuts into those profits not that they can't because they can't afford it. The laws in place will apply to everyone including the entertainment industry, points like this make little sense.

You are not in charge of how others live their life nor do the things you say get into anything about the actual wealth gaps etc. in this country. Sure we could be fine with 1% having everything and everyone else only gets food/shelter/clothing to the point of staying alive if we wanted with no luxuries at all. Why push for it though and try to control what others want/like instead of being logical about the actual situation as a whole?

There is plenty of room to make adjustment, you just seem to be against some of the most obvious/common sense approaches and blame every day workers for wanting to live normal lives.

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Originally Posted by valade16

The problem with the middle class isn't that their pay is slowly eroding or it's harder for them to be successful, it's that they buy fancy beer with a funny name.


I will sum up all of Sluggo's arguments in a nutshell: poor people suck and everyone but the rich are losers.

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I will sum up this absurd response…
I've been around the rich, I've been around the poor (and I've been poor)…the rich are more fun.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

Of course there are plenty of adjustments that can be made but people are pointing out a very obvious issue. If the company can afford to pay their CEO 14 million then they can also afford to pay their lower/middle class workers a living wage (15+ per hour). The idea that we can't afford a lot of these ideas is pretty ridiculous when you go around defending a CEO making 14 mil because the company must be able to afford it then.

The issue is that corporations and people at the top are making decisions for themselves and to earn more money. Nothing wrong with that but at the same time you can't ignore that is often the goal either. When they say they can't do this or that to help the society/people in this country as a whole what they really mean is they don't wan't to because it cuts into those profits not that they can't because they can't afford it. The laws in place will apply to everyone including the entertainment industry, points like this make little sense.

You are not in charge of how others live their life nor do the things you say get into anything about the actual wealth gaps etc. in this country. Sure we could be fine with 1% having everything and everyone else only gets food/shelter/clothing to the point of staying alive if we wanted with no luxuries at all. Why push for it though and try to control what others want/like instead of being logical about the actual situation as a whole?

There is plenty of room to make adjustment, you just seem to be against some of the most obvious/common sense approaches and blame every day workers for wanting to live normal lives.

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Tell an athlete that their salary will be capped at $1 mil. See how much the game declines.

Tell a movie star that their salary will be capped at $1 mil. See how the movies decline.

Tell a rocker that ticket prices will be capped at $10. See how that industry changes.

These high priced CEOs make a ton and that seems to bother people. OK pass a law to fire them all with one year's severance. They'll be fine. Then tag the next top guy's salary to A.…company's bottom line and B a ratio of the lowest guy's salary and C cap his compensation at, oh let's say, $5 million. See what happens.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

I will sum up this absurd response…
I've been around the rich, I've been around the poor (and I've been poor)…the rich are more fun.

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I don't think it is surprising that your response to him involved creating a scenario where you could side with the rich over the poor.

My poor friends would be much more fun if they didn't spend so much time working to provide for their families or had extra money when we went out too probably. That's kinda the entire point of bringing up these issues.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

I will sum up this absurd response…
I've been around the rich, I've been around the poor (and I've been poor)…the rich are more fun.

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An astute observation: people with more money are more fun!

I once met a starving child, least fun person I've ever been around.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I don't think it is surprising that your response to him involved creating a scenario where you could side with the rich over the poor.

My poor friends would be much more fun if they didn't spend so much time working to provide for their families or had extra money when we went out too probably. That's kinda the entire point of bringing up these issues.

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Of course not. Poor people suck. Haven't you heard?

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Tell an athlete that their salary will be capped at $1 mil. See how much the game declines.

Tell a movie star that their salary will be capped at $1 mil. See how the movies decline.

Tell a rocker that ticket prices will be capped at $10. See how that industry changes.

These high priced CEOs make a ton and that seems to bother people. OK pass a law to fire them all with one year's severance. They'll be fine. Then tag the next top guy's salary to A.…company's bottom line and B a ratio of the lowest guy's salary and C cap his compensation at, oh let's say, $5 million. See what happens.

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NBA already has a max salary for players

I never said you have to cap how much any individual makes though this is straw man anyways.

I am not bothered by the CEO's making a lot of money, I am bothered by the argument we can't pay lower/middle class better wages while companies pay that much at the top. I think we need to make a lot of changes to the system as a whole and I think people need to start focusing on what is best for the American people as opposed to large corporations or top CEO's. This doesn't mean they can't make tons and tons of money it just means I think we should close loopholes, make sure working class is getting living wages etc. etc. as well to help MOST Americans and close the gap some.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

NBA already has a max salary for players

I never said you have to cap how much any individual makes though this is straw man anyways.

I am not bothered by the CEO's making a lot of money, I am bothered by the argument we can't pay lower/middle class better wages while companies pay that much at the top. I think we need to make a lot of changes to the system as a whole and I think people need to start focusing on what is best for the American people as opposed to large corporations or top CEO's. This doesn't mean they can't make tons and tons of money it just means I think we should close loopholes, make sure working class is getting living wages etc. etc. as well to help MOST Americans and close the gap some.

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It cost a lot to pay employees. You're just talking about wage when they are many more factors built into hiring employees. It's why the payroll tax cut for hiring new employees is consistently one of the best ways to increase the amount of jobs.

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Originally Posted by FlashBolt

It cost a lot to pay employees. You're just talking about wage when they are many more factors built into hiring employees. It's why the payroll tax cut for hiring new employees is consistently one of the best ways to increase the amount of jobs.

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Of course it does. It also costs a lot to pay CEO's hundreds of times more than those other employees.

Increasing the amount of jobs was not part of the issue being talked about here although I did say much of the system needs reform not just any area. I think the value of a job matters too etc. creating jobs just to create short term employment in areas/fields that are diminishing isn't as good as creating longer term sustainable/valuable jobs for example. There is tons that play into this as a whole but I was responding to things sluggo was getting at.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

Of course it does. It also costs a lot to pay CEO's hundreds of times more than those other employees.

Increasing the amount of jobs was not part of the issue being talked about here although I did say much of the system needs reform not just any area. I think the value of a job matters too etc. creating jobs just to create short term employment in areas/fields that are diminishing isn't as good as creating longer term sustainable/valuable jobs for example. There is tons that play into this as a whole but I was responding to things sluggo was getting at.

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Agreed which is why education is important so our workforce can compete on the global level for those desirable valuable jobs. But apparently education is bad, mmkay.


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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

well, perhaps we can offset some burger flippers being laid off with actually tapping into the next trillion dollar industry-the green industry.

In all reality, labor costs may be lower than they should be. However, profits amongst the higher earning corporations are way inflated, and systemizing that alone would offset the cost of goods if there were a rise due to labor cost rise.

I work at a trucking company with 550 employees, 375 of them drivers. Of the 150 office staff, all but 15 make under 85k a year. We have 3 people making over 200k, another few percent over 100k, then around 8-9 making that 85-99k.

My question is, why does a CEO need to make upwards of 4 times more than a dispatcher? Or, why does a CEO of a major corporation make 15-20 times more than a mid level employee?

Wage gap is way more of a concern than min wage, and needs to be addressed.

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Wage gaps are a concern but minimum wages are an issue too. A friend of mine works as a hospital aide, makes 15 bucks an hour, gets paid bi weekly and sees 300 bucks come out of her paycheck every 2 weeks in federal, state, social security tax and paying for benefits. She won't tell me her net pay is but at those wages and those monies taken out of her paycheck she can't be pulling in much. I don't know if you know what NYC, Long Island, and Westchester real estate looks like but good luck with those wages finding an apartment. She has to work two jobs just to make ends meet. Can she really afford to pay a similar % in taxes to someone making 1000 times her salary?

Its not a singular issue.

I'm not crapping on people who have made enormous fortunes but they haven't been paying their share for years. They find every way they can to avoid taxes and their interests lobby in Washington to keep more of their crazy wealth.

Before I finished grad school, I used to work with people who have TBIs and its not much different. I had a client whose dad owned a billion dollar company, was the beneficiary of the company I worked for, was getting federal and state subsidies for the population in question and paid us a dollar more than minimum wage. Meanwhile his net worth was somewhere between 5 and 6 billion dollars. He was using that foundation as a tax write off and was underpaying employees to the point where the company was also short staffed.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

Of course it does. It also costs a lot to pay CEO's hundreds of times more than those other employees.

Increasing the amount of jobs was not part of the issue being talked about here although I did say much of the system needs reform not just any area. I think the value of a job matters too etc. creating jobs just to create short term employment in areas/fields that are diminishing isn't as good as creating longer term sustainable/valuable jobs for example. There is tons that play into this as a whole but I was responding to things sluggo was getting at.

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The majority of CEO's getting paid the amount you are saying are managing billion dollar companies. Some worth over $100 billion. They should get paid if they do a great job. Now, the ones who don't and still get paid a lot are the issue. But a CEO who gets paid $20 million for increasing profits by a huge percentage should not be on national headlines for getting paid $20 million. The amount of work and responsibility they take warrants that and they should be rewarded for it. But let's say we take the $20 million out of the equation. Bob Iger is a very good CEO. Disney employs at least 130,000 employees. Iger made $36 million last year as a CEO. $36 million split between 130,000 employees averages to $277 per person. Is that the real issue here? If so, problem solved. Everyone gets $277 extra and Iger gets $0. The idea that any CEO getting paid that much and it's bad is just absurd. Some CEO's who get paid that much, who aren't doing a good job, and who do not provide much should not be getting paid millions. But this doesn't and won't fix the problem because this IS NOT the problem. Ultimately put, people do not have to rely on companies to be employed. They are free to take their talents elsewhere if they believe they are not compensated accordingly. Let's stop trying to remove personal responsibility.

People are paid what they are worth. If you aren't worth much, you aren't getting paid the amount someone who provides a lot of value will get paid. There's a reason you don't really hear about underpaid tech workers. Why? Because they are in high demand. More people need to be getting into that field and not into fields that lead to being a clerical worker or seeking employment in areas that were not designed to be a sustainable family wage. Do people expect to be able to own a home, have two kids, a nice mid-size SVU and be able to go out for family outings working at Walmart or retail? It's simply unrealistic so you shouldn't be complaining about the system if that is the case. I agree, workers can be paid more but at the same time, it's your job to make sure you are paid what you are worth. A company will do its best to pay you as less as possible and if you are replaceable, e.g., cashier or retail, then it really isn't their fault. Other people are WILLING to do that work for less than what you're asking for so why should they give you a pay raise unless they see massive potential in you to climb up the ranks? You want higher pay? You negotiate. Provide what you can and how you can help them. You increase the skills you have by taking free classes online that will help you. Learn a language, learn two languages, network, etc., But if you want to beg for more money and sit there with your hand rubbing one out while expecting to get a pay raise, that's on you. If you know you can't afford to have a child, you shouldn't have one. If you know it will take you a few years to save up enough for a college education to improve your qualifications, then take those few years. Or just whine. That works, too.

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Originally Posted by FlashBolt

People are paid what they are worth. If you aren't worth much, you aren't getting paid the amount someone who provides a lot of value will get paid. There's a reason you don't really hear about underpaid tech workers. Why? Because they are in high demand. More people need to be getting into that field and not into fields that lead to being a clerical worker or seeking employment in areas that were not designed to be a sustainable family wage. Do people expect to be able to own a home, have two kids, a nice mid-size SVU and be able to go out for family outings working at Walmart or retail? It's simply unrealistic so you shouldn't be complaining about the system if that is the case. I agree, workers can be paid more but at the same time, it's your job to make sure you are paid what you are worth. A company will do its best to pay you as less as possible and if you are replaceable, e.g., cashier or retail, then it really isn't their fault. Other people are WILLING to do that work for less than what you're asking for so why should they give you a pay raise unless they see massive potential in you to climb up the ranks? You want higher pay? You negotiate. Provide what you can and how you can help them. You increase the skills you have by taking free classes online that will help you. Learn a language, learn two languages, network, etc., But if you want to beg for more money and sit there with your hand rubbing one out while expecting to get a pay raise, that's on you. If you know you can't afford to have a child, you shouldn't have one. If you know it will take you a few years to save up enough for a college education to improve your qualifications, then take those few years. Or just whine. That works, too.

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There was a time where people could work lesser jobs and make a livable wage. Not saying you should make a 100 grand a year ringing up groceries but there is also no reason why billionaires should be able to escape federal taxes. The system doesn't work. If you adjust for inflation, the average hourly wage has as much purchasing power as it did in 1978. How do people survive working on those wages? Stagnation in middle and lower class wages as high wage workers grow exponentially create a significant gap. And its not like companies are compensating in other areas. Even college graduates are finding it harder to find employer sponsored benefits. 61% of college grads finding jobs were getting health insurance in 1989, its now 31% as of 2013.

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Originally Posted by metswon69

There was a time where people could work lesser jobs and make a livable wage. Not saying you should make a 100 grand a year ringing up groceries but there is also no reason why billionaires should be able to escape federal taxes. The system doesn't work. If you adjust for inflation, the average hourly wage has as much purchasing power as it did in 1978. How do people survive working on those wages? Stagnation in middle and lower class wages as high wage workers grow exponentially create a significant gap. And its not like companies are compensating in other areas. Even college graduates are finding it harder to find employer sponsored benefits. 61% of college grads finding jobs were getting health insurance in 1989, its now 31% as of 2013.

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And there was a time where everyone grew their own food and hunted for their own meat. Times are changing and people should as well.

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Originally Posted by FlashBolt

And there was a time where everyone grew their own food and hunted for their own meat. Times are changing and people should as well.

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People are changing. You're seeing a smaller % of people who control more and more of the world's wealth becoming greedier and not paying their share. They are not re-investing to the extent they claim either.

Spitting back to me my first sentence doesn't address the wage gaps, minimum wages, livable wages, etc. It just says "tough ****, deal with it".

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/Li...8-41c710ce0e5b

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckTales

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Originally Posted by metswon69

People are changing. You're seeing a smaller % of people who control more and more of the world's wealth becoming greedier and not paying their share. They are not re-investing to the extent they claim either.

Spitting back to me my first sentence doesn't address the wage gaps, minimum wages, livable wages, etc. It just says "tough ****, deal with it".

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Actually, your are seeing more and more people who control Americans wealth. Not sure where you're going with that.

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Originally Posted by metswon69

People are changing. You're seeing a smaller % of people who control more and more of the world's wealth becoming greedier and not paying their share. They are not re-investing to the extent they claim either.

Spitting back to me my first sentence doesn't address the wage gaps, minimum wages, livable wages, etc. It just says "tough ****, deal with it".

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Not paying their share? Uhm, nearly half of American tax filers do not pay income taxes. The top 1% earned 20.58% of all AGI in 2014 and paid nearly 40% of all federal income taxes in America. The top 1% paid more than the bottom 90% of taxpayers. Top 10% paid 70% of all Federal Income taxes.

1) Minimum wages are jobs that aren't designed to be a liveable family wage. It's for the college kid who wants extra money to buy books, eat out, etc., Not to raise a damn family.

2) Wage gaps? Lol. There is no wage gap in fields that are in demand.

You're not understanding the situation at all. Economics don't lie. If you are in demand, your wage will go up. If you are not in demand, your wage will stay the same or decline. That's the fact. There doesn't need to be any addressing. Technology shifted who should be in demand. People need to adapt. We're moving away from a manufacturing to a services industry. Actually, we've already moved away from it. Instead of looking at wage gap and all this other stuff, you need to be specific. What job are they working? Which field? How qualified are they? Stop trying to make it seem as if their "unfair" wages are the product of corruption. No one is corrupting them. You're getting paid too little? Print out your resume and start finding an employer willing to pay you more.

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Originally Posted by FlashBolt

People are paid what they are worth. If you aren't worth much, you aren't getting paid the amount someone who provides a lot of value will get paid. There's a reason you don't really hear about underpaid tech workers. Why? Because they are in high demand. More people need to be getting into that field and not into fields that lead to being a clerical worker or seeking employment in areas that were not designed to be a sustainable family wage. Do people expect to be able to own a home, have two kids, a nice mid-size SVU and be able to go out for family outings working at Walmart or retail? It's simply unrealistic so you shouldn't be complaining about the system if that is the case. I agree, workers can be paid more but at the same time, it's your job to make sure you are paid what you are worth. A company will do its best to pay you as less as possible and if you are replaceable, e.g., cashier or retail, then it really isn't their fault. Other people are WILLING to do that work for less than what you're asking for so why should they give you a pay raise unless they see massive potential in you to climb up the ranks? You want higher pay? You negotiate. Provide what you can and how you can help them. You increase the skills you have by taking free classes online that will help you. Learn a language, learn two languages, network, etc., But if you want to beg for more money and sit there with your hand rubbing one out while expecting to get a pay raise, that's on you. If you know you can't afford to have a child, you shouldn't have one. If you know it will take you a few years to save up enough for a college education to improve your qualifications, then take those few years. Or just whine. That works, too.

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People are paid what businesses can get away with paying them. So long as we have enough competition, good enough rules in place etc. then maybe they will get paid what they are worth but many are pointing out our system has flaws that can be worked on. That is why we have our laws in place etc. already we are just talking about shifting them to keep up with the times.

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Originally Posted by FlashBolt

Not paying their share? Uhm, nearly half of American tax filers do not pay income taxes. The top 1% earned 20.58% of all AGI in 2014 and paid nearly 40% of all federal income taxes in America. The top 1% paid more than the bottom 90% of taxpayers. Top 10% paid 70% of all Federal Income taxes.

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The main thing that shows to me is that there is a huge range of income levels in the country.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Bolded…It doesn't stop with them unless they stick it in their mattress and sit on it.m If they put it in the bank or into some investment, the money moves.

Stop having kids if you can't afford it??? You shouldn't do anything you can't afford.

Re: the CEO making $14 mil a year. Does he make all that or is a lot of it stock options based on his success. And even if it is a cash outlay to his pocket, I guess the company can afford it or they wouldn't pay it, and quite possible if he wasn't paid that amount he wouldn't be working so hard to get it.

Why is the CEOs salary such an atrocity to people but athletes, rockers, movie stars, the entire entertainment business salaries never an issue? I never understood that.

What has changed over the last 30 years that affects having a comfortable secure life…that's easy…stuff. Tons of stuff that is considered normal today that never required an outlay of cash years ago. I spend approx $6 thousand a year on cell phones and television service (and I don't have a cell phone. Wife and kids have theirs). Another $6 thousand or so on car insurance. Heaven forbid any one take mass transit. Drive everywhere with navi systems. House with a pool…common in many areas. Eat out 5-6 times a month. Clothes are bought, worn for about a year and replaced…never gets repaired. Always have to be in style. Bourbon…can only buy premium bourbon. Can't just serve scotch…gotta be single malt. Beer that's not craft beer with a funny name…seriously? There's just more stuff to spend money on and easy to do even you have no money.

I think some adjustments are necessary. Maybe pay company executives some sort of percentage of bottom line (I can just see those accounting meetings). Maybe a little more realistic in how you pay employees who stick around. I definitely believe in company paid health insurance (doing this for thirty years. Getting very expensive.) Would support a reasonable national health care plan. How about a national sales tax that goes directly to some national health care plan. One in which everyone pays even thew poor.

College tuition…never hear about lowering professor's wages … any idea how much these pompous tenured people make? Can't they take a pay cut? College in Texas spent $10 million a few years ago renovating the football locker room. How can they justify high tuition when there is that kind of money around. Does every college in the state need to be building a new research facility for something…seems that way. nEverything is on line now but textbooks still go for $100+. Does that make sense.

So there is plenty of room to make adjustments…not just the $14 million CEO.

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My parent were born in the 30's on farms in Ireland. They didn't need indoor plumbing! They were fine. People who think they should be able to afford to poop indoors are what it wrong with this country!

Another thing about this AOC, she doesn’t always return her shopping cart to the little cart corral area. Damn phony!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why do people still persist with this "minimum wage isn't for people to have livable jobs?" fiction? That was very clearly what it was for, President Roosevelt's speech said literally that:

https://www.thebillfold.com/2015/07/...a-living-wage/

In his 1933 address following the passage of the National Industrial Recovery Act, President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted that “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”

“By ‘business’ I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of decent living,” he stated.


The minimum wage was very clearly to ensure everyone had a livable wage. If not, then what is the point of the minimum wage in the first place?

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Originally Posted by metswon69

Wage gaps are a concern but minimum wages are an issue too. A friend of mine works as a hospital aide, makes 15 bucks an hour, gets paid bi weekly and sees 300 bucks come out of her paycheck every 2 weeks in federal, state, social security tax and paying for benefits. She won't tell me her net pay is but at those wages and those monies taken out of her paycheck she can't be pulling in much. I don't know if you know what NYC, Long Island, and Westchester real estate looks like but good luck with those wages finding an apartment. She has to work two jobs just to make ends meet. Can she really afford to pay a similar % in taxes to someone making 1000 times her salary?

Its not a singular issue.

I'm not crapping on people who have made enormous fortunes but they haven't been paying their share for years. They find every way they can to avoid taxes and their interests lobby in Washington to keep more of their crazy wealth.

Before I finished grad school, I used to work with people who have TBIs and its not much different. I had a client whose dad owned a billion dollar company, was the beneficiary of the company I worked for, was getting federal and state subsidies for the population in question and paid us a dollar more than minimum wage. Meanwhile his net worth was somewhere between 5 and 6 billion dollars. He was using that foundation as a tax write off and was underpaying employees to the point where the company was also short staffed.

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minimum wage is a concern due to wages not keeping with inflation. Look, minimum wage jobs have never been jobs meant to support a family, nor should they. But minimum wage today means you live in poverty, instead of on a strict budget like a couple decades ago.

The biggest thing that makes me laugh when conservatives "educate" us on spending habits, and the way business works, is they can't for the life of them address the fact that you can't raise a family on what you used to be able to, yet the top earners make exponentially more now than they used to.

Wage disparity is crumbling us. The cost of goods and services growing rapidly while wages stagnate is a close second.

Conservatives say it's all excuses and we don't work hard enough. Yet totally ignore a regular job paid for a **** load more 20-30 years ago. They completely miss the boat on WHY people can't live like they used to, and it's not choices. It's that the dollar doesn't stretch like it used to, and there are fewer dollars being given to the bottom 80% of us.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

minimum wage is a concern due to wages not keeping with inflation. Look, minimum wage jobs have never been jobs meant to support a family, nor should they. But minimum wage today means you live in poverty, instead of on a strict budget like a couple decades ago.

The biggest thing that makes me laugh when conservatives "educate" us on spending habits, and the way business works, is they can't for the life of them address the fact that you can't raise a family on what you used to be able to, yet the top earners make exponentially more now than they used to.

Wage disparity is crumbling us. The cost of goods and services growing rapidly while wages stagnate is a close second.

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They should be able to support yourself.

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Originally Posted by valade16

Why do people still persist with this "minimum wage isn't for people to have livable jobs?" fiction? That was very clearly what it was for, President Roosevelt's speech said literally that:

https://www.thebillfold.com/2015/07/...a-living-wage/

In his 1933 address following the passage of the National Industrial Recovery Act, President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted that “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”

“By ‘business’ I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of decent living,” he stated.


The minimum wage was very clearly to ensure everyone had a livable wage. If not, then what is the point of the minimum wage in the first place?

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Minimum wage isn't meant to raise a family, but a single person should be able to live off of it. I agree completely.

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Originally Posted by valade16

They should be able to support yourself.

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haha, I literally just responded to your other post with the exact same thought.