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Yea, TV personalities do it all the time. The invite people on to their show to debate them as if that wouldn't be absolute gold for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
Ben Shapiro would be making out farrrrrrrr ahead than the 10k he would donate to her charity. It's a win-win for them to even just propose these sort of things. It's pure marketing plain and simple. And I have no problem with plenty of well-meaning discussion and debates.
This. And it doesn’t even have to be full forgiveness. Start with interest forgiveness. My loan debt is 60% interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeW-Star
And I saw in his about government, but what about doctors. I left off bus drivers because most places pay for your CDL; and you don’t need a college degree for it. But for doctors: X amount of time on a program like Doctors Without Boarders, high risk area ERs, low income free clinics.
And look I get it, not everyone will want to work in areas like that. And that kinda stuff. And that’s fine. But let’s start with a path where I don’t need to be in long term crippling debt to pay for school.
And personal background: when I went to school my mom was an orderly in a hospital going to night school, my dad was on disability social security. Our household income was under $75k a year including me income. I needed to borrow to afford any education.
Some are excellent; some are not. Most are probably average.Quote:
Originally Posted by flips333
And you're right, I don't understand why tenure exists.
Amen brother, I don't know what it is about Columbian girls (other than being extremely hot) but every time I have love at first sight with a Latina she turns out to be Columbian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye15
Colombian*Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekial
Don't make that mistake around them. They do not like it. lol
That NCAA thing only goes so far and only affects a small portion of schools. I would love a system where you have to earn your way in, but then it's paid for. Your GPA falls bellow a 2. See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeW-Star
This would also curb one of the biggest problems in college, grade inflation.
so you are going to introduce price controls on tuition? You do understand that the cost increases in recent years are supply and demand driven because of the student loan industry. Right? Not because businesses are looking for people with womens studies degreesQuote:
Originally Posted by DeW-Star
There are way to many people going to college getting worthless degrees as is … the last thing we need is more people taking a 4 year vacation and loading up on debt.
tenure exists to protect scholarly work. If you find something through your research or scholarship that is an unpopular idea they can't **** can for it. Tenure is about the protection of expression, not simply a measure to protect jobs. You can still be fired from a University job if you don't do your job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
The problem is on the flip side the job market itself. Ever increasingly you need degrees for jobs you never needed them for before. Even just being a secretary at some places require a degree. One side needs to break.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylman
The other part of the issue is the “better life than me”. Factory workers still want their jobs, but don’t want their kids doing it. So they tell their kids to go to college. That kid goes to college and how they needed loans because Mom didn’t work and Dad didn’t make enough.
You are cherry picking.Quote:
Originally Posted by send him to
Drivers…I'm referring to municipal bus drivers, subway drivers, school bus drivers etc. I would think you could see that,
Point is…there should be no student loan forgiveness at all and certainly not loan forgiveness just for certain segments such as government and municipal workers.
For another scenario, and one that makes sense consider this.
I had full tuition paid for for both undergraduate work and graduate school. I spent several years in the military and received payment under the GI bill. I also work full time for a large banking firm and, after I showed promise and commitment to the company, I was given educational benefits through the firm. Not available to all employees, but I showed value. Bottom line, I earned the tuition reimbursement that I received from two places.
Maybe some people should consider the military. Maybe big business should be encouraged to pay for education. It would be a great way to motivate quality employees. Something would have to be worked out to prevent an employee from just graduating and leaving (maybe guarantee 3-5 years after graduating or you have to pay something back.) This would also work for Trade type jobs…you have a good ditch digger, send him to tractor school (something along these lines).
What we have now is kids going to college, running up debt and coming out looking for jobs that either do not exist or they are unqualified for.
There must be a better way,
Dream on. Most of these professors and high school teachers rarely do any memorable scholarly work.Quote:
Originally Posted by flips333
You may be right about why tenure came to be, I can certainly see that, but now it's an excuse to keep their jobs. no matter what they do
Who still has secretaries other than the C Suite?Quote:
Originally Posted by warfelg
Again... the idea that college should be provided for ALL is garbage... Less than 25% of the population should be going to college if the test is Cost=Benefit
I have no issue with merit based funding but to act like it is a god given right with no standards is ridiculous.
Anyway, you do what you have to do if something is important to you no matter the cost.
I play poker with a guy who is a pharmacist... he had $300k in student loans at one point... you know what he did to pay it off? worked two jobs … one as a retail pharmacist and one in a hospital... he worked 75 hours a week for 5 years to pay off those loans and now only works the one job. Its a function of priorities
But here’s my thing:
Why should he have to work 2 jobs because he decided he wanted a better life? That’s absurd.
This response should be framed and hung on the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylman
Not to the guy who worked the two jobs and now has a better life.Quote:
Originally Posted by warfelg
And I’m not even a college for all because what I said got taken wrong.
If you get a degree and use it for public benefit, there should be a benefit on the loans for doing so. Like no interest paid, only the principal.
High school... why are we talking about high school. Of course they don't they are high school teachers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
Who do you think brings you almost all the science that exists? Your ignorance on this topic is astounding.
The benefit of working for the public is…Quote:
Originally Posted by warfelg
usually better pay
Better Benefits
Retirement plan
Job security
It's why everyone wants these jobs.
I had a pretty good graphic designer leave my company to run a copy machine in the county sheriff's department. Went from a "creative" to a "button pusher" for slightly more money, union membership (can't get fired) and a great benefit package.
High school teachers also get tenure.Quote:
Originally Posted by flips333
Your thought process on this topic is naive.
Because my one friend had it tough EVERYBODY should have it tough!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylman
When you say it's a function of priorities, that holds true for our government as well. The Government could prioritize making college more affordable so your friend didn't have to go $300K into debt or work 2 jobs and 75 hours a week for 5 years.
You referred to professors... not High school teachers. I know **** all about tenure in primary schools. but that doesn't relate to why tenure exists in colleges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
naive is showing a lack of experience I assure you I understand tenure in colleges and the science it helps create.
Wrong on all 4 accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
When I worked in a township office I made $45k a year, if I went into the private sector I could have started at $75K a year.
My benefits, no vision, no dental, $100 co-pay, $50,000 deductible. Woo benefits.
Retirement plan....meh. Local government retirement means pension.
Job Security? Are you kidding? My position was up for public vote every 2 years if they still wanted the position.
Exactly. And what's funny is the worst offenders are state schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by valade16
who cares
deleted
oh its most of them for me. Or at least no particular country. My ex is literally the devil, and I think about the sex all the time. God she was hotQuote:
Originally Posted by Ezekial
Great, you eventually made the right move.Quote:
Originally Posted by warfelg
In the big cities and many state employments, the points I made are valid.
Tenure is tenure. Be it high end professors or low end high school teachers. Once you get tenure you are virtually untouchable in your employment.Quote:
Originally Posted by flips333
You see it as protecting all this deep thinking research that a small percentage of professors actually do. I se it as protecting jobs that a greater number of educators should not have. Ergo…it may be doing more harm than good.
Not really. Those take a Masters, 10+ years in the field, and a certain payscale level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
Here's the payscale level difference in my degree field:
Public: https://www.glassdoor.com/job-listin...=1533923441428
Private: https://www.glassdoor.com/job-listin...=1533923470075
BTW I didn't leave for another sector of the same degree field. I went to another career completely.
God has this deteriorated into a bunch of whining. Have a drink, it's Friday
My bad I swyped it and that's what it came out as, looked like I got what I wanted on first glance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeW-Star
No shite. Have a couple in fact. Then smoke a fat one while you’re at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ewing
If it's working out, I'm happy for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by warfelg
Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by ewing
Back on topic…the kid from the Bronx is as dumb as a box of hammers.
Yeah you don't know ****.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
No offense, but this is totally wrong. At least at the high school/middle school/elementary level. Tenure is not a protection from being fired, it is a protection from being fired without cause. If a school system really wants to get rid of a teacher because that teacher is doing a poor job of teaching or managing the classroom, they can. They just have to follow due process and document what went wrong, what was done to fix it and why that didn't work. Schools can get rid of bad teachers if the principal wants to do the work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
What schools can't do is get rid of teachers just because they feel like it. Things like making too much money, giving the school board member's kid a bad grade, losing too many football games, not starting the right students on the basketball team, being too active in the teacher's association or [this happened at my school] having too messy a classroom.
Schools would be plantations without protections like tenure.
That said, you can probably find some examples, mostly in NYC schools, of school systems not being able to fire teachers for seemingly stupid reasons. Most, if not all, of those examples are not tenure related, but the result of local collective bargaining and have nothing to do with the concept of tenure.
FWIW, k-12 schools do not have 'tenure'. Teachers are classified as non-permanent, semi-permanent or permanent. Perhaps a distinction without a difference, but tenure is a word with specific meaning that doesn't apply outside of college, I think.
CNN and others are making the same mistake with her as they did with Trump which is giving a candidate a lot of attention in order belittle her and boost their own candidates.
The thing is, like Trump, some of things she is saying are reasonable. Trump's budget doesn't add up to anything sustainable either but he's not held accountable. She'll gain great support just for the attention she's getting.
Ben Shapiro isn't all that great either, why doesn't he do a service to the country and run rather than trying to be a propaganda artist? or just simply move out of California?
No offense taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFan
However what you are putting out there is union babble.
Bolded area…in big city school districts the bolded area is virtually impossible to prove and firings are rare. I have a relative in one of the wealthiest school districts in NY. If they ask teachers to help out in what they consider a "non professional area" (hall monitoring, assisting a proctor, student pick up area in weather emergency situations, straightening up the classroom at end of day) tenured teachers just won't do it, non-tenured teachers have to do it.
And if what you're saying is true i.e. it is a protection from being fired without cause …why do you need tenure at all? Most jobs you can't be fired without cause. You can go to an employment board. Are there that many teachers that would lose their job without tenure…are there that many bad administrators that would unreasonably fire teachers? And if tenure keeps you from getting fired without cause, why don't more industries demand it. Why is tenure prevalent pretty much within the education system? And why is it that teachers nearly go into an orgasmic state when they get tenure…it's because they pretty much have a job for as long as they want it.
Teachers will never give up tenure and there is a reason for it…it is guaranteed employment. Bad the lower levels. Terrible at the college levels.
Yeah, but you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by flips333
Right.
In more than half the states in the country, you don’t need to be given a reason why you get fired. Missouri just rejected that in Prop A.