Is it safe to assume that these are the same bitter folks upset she won in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots
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Is it safe to assume that these are the same bitter folks upset she won in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots
Now that's TV I'd bring the popcorn out for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots
Ocasio-Cortez is not a socialist.Quote:
Originally Posted by rrzubnyy
Emissions have to be cut to 40% of 1990 levels in twelve years or climate change will wreck havoc.Quote:
Originally Posted by rrzubnyy
Corporate Democrats wanting to maintain power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots
One unnamed congressperson. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots
Probably being paid insane amounts of money by [insert insanely evil corporate entity here].
I'd be very curious to see the type they think can beat her in her district :laugh:
We're talking to people who thought Obama was a socialist. Or a communist. Or whatever Fox News was peddling them. :laugh2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjay
AOC self-identifies as a Democratic Socialist, but yes, her brand of socialism really isn't true socialism.
Sweden says hi...Quote:
Originally Posted by rrzubnyy
OH MY GOD! I realized the Republican Party is paving the way for socialism this whole time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter_White
Their rebuttal to your point is cultural cohesion (they're all white). And what is Trump trying to do? Kick all the brown people out. He's trying to create the culture cohesion to enable socialism to work here. He's smart enough to see that brown people can't handle socialism. He knows that they will all just be shuckin' and jivin' with that free government money.
Trump is so much smarter than us put together! We should be supporting the #MAWA agenda!
If anyone can't tell, I'm mocking rrzubnyy's ridiculous point. Just making that super clear!
Sweden says they are not socialist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter_White
I googled it and found articles back to 2015 of people being annoyed with Bernie for calling the Nordic countries socialist. :)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey.../#7ae9fdc874ad
This is why is impossible to really talk about any of this before these definitions are fleshed out. It's all semantics. This isn't Mao or Lenin, but they aren't nearly the capitalist society we are. When conservatives can't deny the success of heavily socialized countries (we're talking like ~80% state ownership in some of these countries) they go with "this isn't real socialism, and the good outcomes aren't because of socialism". When they fail, "it's socialism and bad outcomes are due to socialism".Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots
If you go to their government's own page "The Swedish System of Government" plastered at the top is this quote: "All public power proceeds from the people. This is the foundation of the Swedish system of government. Everyone has the same rights and is free to scrutinise how politicians and public agencies exercise their power."
I couldn't really care less whether or not they self identify as "socialist country" or not. I think there's a lot to learn from what they're doing, and they're undeniably far more socialized than we are. We're socialized too in many ways, just not to that degree. It's all on a sliding scale. I think the average American "socialist" is infinitely more-closely aligned to the Nordic model of socialism (or whatever the hell you want to call it I truly don't care) than, again, Lenin. I think Republicans almost never care to discuss any of the nuances in the massively huge an all-encompassing umbrella that is "socialism". In their eyes we all want Juche! It's stupid. And these arguments over "what is 'socialism' and what isn't" are far less interesting than "in what ways is capitalism harming this country and how can we remedy that"?
Google "Matt Bruenig Sweden". Or better yet, "Norway". Norway is his baby, and few people know this form of "socialism" better than him. Not sure you'll be interested in it, but hey, I'll try anyways!
"All public power proceeds from the people" is essentially the foundation for the US too. It's execution that matters. The Nordic system isn't socialist because the government isn't quick to take over the means of production. They use high taxes/fees to support their citizenship at a very high level. I'm anti-socialist, but for an extremely strong social backstop like the Nordic countries have. I am also for a earning cap on maximum earning of employees of publicly traded companies (nobody is worth $200M a year).Quote:
Originally Posted by ManRam
Yeah but they live it and we're just an oligarchy. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots
My point was that that being on their website doesn't mean anything really.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManRam
Whatever you want to call them, they are vastly more socialist than the US currently. So they may not be "socialist", but they're still more socialist than us. And saying that these countries aren't socialist when referring to Bernie or AOC is diversionary anyway since neither of them are for full on Marxist Socialism in the first place, they are for emulating the Nordic model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoots