Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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12-10-2018, 03:09 PM
Hawkeye15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

Wher does the money come from for our $716B military? Why isn’t that question asked far louder than the one you’re asking?

right, and that will ALWAYS be the question. "Who is paying for it?". Until she shows how, without taxation spread across all levels of the rich, wall street, etc, she is going to get a lot of eye rolls from the other side.

I mean, not sure how many times it needs to be brought up-slice military spending in half, and fix so many internal problems. But that will never, never, never happen. At least I don't imagine it will. So instead she will be called a marxist, cast aside as a radical, and the wheel keeps turning.
12-10-2018, 03:13 PM
dbroncos78087

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

right, and that will ALWAYS be the question. "Who is paying for it?". Until she shows how, without taxation spread across all levels of the rich, wall street, etc, she is going to get a lot of eye rolls from the other side.

I mean, not sure how many times it needs to be brought up-slice military spending in half, and fix so many internal problems. But that will never, never, never happen. At least I don't imagine it will. So instead she will be called a marxist, cast aside as a radical, and the wheel keeps turning.

Talking about cutting even a penny out of the military is treated as tantamount to treason.

Maybe someday we will get to the point where taking care of our citizens isn’t something that is cause for institutionalization.
12-10-2018, 05:01 PM
Sluggo1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

I don't think there is a person alive that doesn't want what she is selling. It's just that such an aggressive sales pitch by someone so inexperienced, is naturally going to get a lot of eye rolls. And where is the money coming from? That is always, always, always going to be the response. If you can get the GOP to cut military by a few billion a year, and re-allocate, great. But in reality it means...........more taxes.

I would love free health care, free college, free back rubs, and everything else she is selling. But I am also not stupid enough to believe she will get much of it done. Let her sit in the senate for a while, reality will set in.

This is all I have really said about t.his dimwit.

You said it much nicer.
12-10-2018, 05:20 PM
Crovash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

I don't think there is a person alive that doesn't want what she is selling. It's just that such an aggressive sales pitch by someone so inexperienced, is naturally going to get a lot of eye rolls. And where is the money coming from? That is always, always, always going to be the response. If you can get the GOP to cut military by a few billion a year, and re-allocate, great. But in reality it means...........more taxes.

I would love free health care, free college, free back rubs, and everything else she is selling. But I am also not stupid enough to believe she will get much of it done. Let her sit in the senate for a while, reality will set in.

Nothing at all wrong with higher taxes...

...unless they are earmarked for paying down more failures like the $5.6 trillion that our invasion of soverign Middle East nations will ultimately cost:

http://veteransforcommonsense.org/20...-5-6-trillion/
12-10-2018, 05:33 PM
Hawkeye15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crovash

Nothing at all wrong with higher taxes...

...unless it goes to paying down more things like the $5.6 trillion that our failed middle east invasions will cost: http://veteransforcommonsense.org/20...-5-6-trillion/

depends where they are coming from. The middle class and poor don't need anymore money removed from their paychecks. Now, if they want to cut into the defense budget, and kill loopholes for corporate taxes, by all means, giddyup.

I will say, at this point, if we could have a single payer healthcare system that actually worked well, I am all for a little tax increase so we can get rid of having medical bills for the average person. Every year, peoples coverage gets worse, and rates higher. Something has to give.
12-10-2018, 05:35 PM
Crovash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

depends where they are coming from. The middle class and poor don't need anymore money removed from their paychecks. Now, if they want to cut into the defense budget, and kill loopholes for corporate taxes, by all means, giddyup.

Oh, yeah. There’s plenty of money out there.
12-10-2018, 05:41 PM
ManRam

We are well over $1.5T in student debt!

89% of Millennials want to buy a home but feel they can't, mostly because of the debt. That's insane.

Look, "free college" is bold. But crises deserve bold solutions. And you know what, until any of these far-right posters share what they want to do to fix these issues (climate change, health care, college costs, living wages, income inquality) I think everyone else has every right to laugh at them when they criticize someone for being TOO ambitious. For dreaming too big. Hate to break it to you, but nothing in this country has been achieved without the help of people who dreamed big.

Frankly, it's all of y'all's fault that we can't get to where we want to be. The only reason we might not get a livable wage, affordable college, single payer health care, a shift to renewable energy is because of YOU. That's the problem. These grand ideas wouldn't be so ground if we didn't have half this country dragging everything down. Many countries live with the reality that y'all say is too ambitious.

They're only too ambitious because you don't want it to happen. For no other reason. We have every means there is to achieve everything she wants. Period.
12-10-2018, 05:43 PM
ManRam

Also, she's already having a tangible effect on her party. Hell, the Conservatives here admit that (while simultaneously claiming she's a moron who isn't capable of actually getting anything done...weirdos :laugh:).

All the behind the scenes stuff and attempts at transparency have been wonderful. Any of you who have ever railed about the "elites" or the "swamp" would in theory love what she's doing if your brains worked right. It's what any sane person would want their politicians to be doing. The transparency is great. Let us know what's happening. Has anyone here every thought about freshman congress onboarding/training? I hadn't. But it makes all the sense in the world that it's just a bunch of this:

For people so confident that she's an already-failed disaster, people sure are really eager to let us know. Something tells me some people might be more worried than they're leading on. That maybe Democrats might embrace this populism. ;)
12-10-2018, 05:45 PM
Hawkeye15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManRam

We are well over $1.5T in student debt!

89% of Millennials want to buy a home but feel they can't, mostly because of the debt. That's insane.

Look, "free college" is bold. But crises deserve bold solutions. And you know what, until any of these far-right posters share what they want to do to fix these issues (climate change, health care, college costs, living wages, income inquality) I think everyone else has every right to laugh at them when they criticize someone for being TOO ambitious. For dreaming too big. Hate to break it to you, but nothing in this country has been achieved without the help of people who dreamed big.

Frankly, it's all of y'all's fault that we can't get to where we want to be. The only reason we might not get a livable wage, affordable college, single payer health care, a shift to renewable energy is because of YOU. That's the problem. These grand ideas wouldn't be so ground if we didn't have half this country dragging everything down. Many countries live with the reality that y'all say is too ambitious.

They're only too ambitious because you don't want it to happen. For no other reason. We have every means there is to achieve everything she wants. Period.

oh we aren't getting free college, nor should we. But, there are PLENTY of things we should strive to get, that are realistic. Affordable health care should be at the top, obviously. Fixing the justice/prison system, and environmental reform (along with health care) are the 3 that should be attainable through joint effort and compromise.

Manram, I love your spirit, but there is no way we get everything she wants. Not in this lifetime.
12-10-2018, 05:46 PM
Hawkeye15

I do love that she is calling out the complete irony of the system though. Lobbyists are at the Congressional orientation haha. Like, shouldn't they be the last group there? If you want everything fixed like she does, it starts with completely overhauling our senate/house.
12-10-2018, 05:54 PM
dbroncos78087

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crovash

Nothing at all wrong with higher taxes...

...unless they are earmarked for paying down more failures like the $5.6 trillion that our invasion of soverign Middle East nations will ultimately cost:

http://veteransforcommonsense.org/20...-5-6-trillion/

Well I do have to disagree slightly. We are perfectly happy to pay for the wars with debt. There is no appetite to pay for them...I mean really pay for them. Wars can go on the Platinum card. Anything related to the well being of citizens, that can't be charged like a teenager with daddy's credit card and you won't get away with paying for it because it's tarred and feathered as socialism.
12-10-2018, 06:01 PM
Crovash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

But, there are PLENTY of things we should strive to get, that are realistic. Affordable health care should be at the top, obviously. Fixing the justice/prison system, and environmental reform (along with health care) are the 3 that should be attainable through joint effort and compromise.

Manram, I love your spirit, but there is no way we get everything she wants. Not in this lifetime.

Whether she knows this or not is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. What I believe is that she (and some like her) will fight for them on behalf of her constituents — and on behalf some of us who are not.

As one early abolitionist remarked: We are not called to be successful; we are called to be faithful.
12-10-2018, 06:09 PM
valade16

Name the politician that can realistically get everything they want?
12-10-2018, 06:10 PM
Crovash

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

Well I do have to disagree slightly. We are perfectly happy to pay for the wars with debt. There is no appetite to pay for them...I mean really pay for them. Wars can go on the Platinum card.

The ultimate actions of a shameful society. Just like with the environment, we are perfectly willing to burden — no, decimate — our children and grandchildren because we are so short-sighted and self-centered.
12-10-2018, 06:48 PM
dbroncos78087

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crovash

The ultimate actions of a shameful society. Just like with the environment, we are perfectly willing to burden — no, decimate — our children and grandchildren because we are so short-sighted and self-centered.

Oh I don't deny that AT ALL. In fact, on that point we couldn't agree any more unless we were both to say 1+1=2.

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