Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Originally Posted by benny01

Who believes k-12 is free? People pay for it through taxes, mostly in local property taxes(here anyway). School referendums are on the ballot all the time. Nevermind registration fees that people pay every year. Obviously I’m for “free” in state tuition, but free doesn’t play where I live. Access, and how that access is made more available wins every time.

I talk to a lot of farmers regularly about health care. Free ends the conversation with single payer. We spend more for less access, you will spend less than your current policy in the additional taxes, etc..moves the needle. They see free as ******** magic. It’s not free, tell them how it will save them money and give them better access

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I thought I made that clear in my first statement. “Obviously, nothing is free.”

What “free” means is, yes, access — that any child is entitled to go to K-12 at no direct additional cost to him/her or his/her family (presumably they are paying taxes whether they own or rent).

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Originally Posted by Crovash

I thought I made that clear in my first statement. “Obviously, nothing is free.”

What “free” means is, yes, access — that any child is entitled to go to K-12 at no direct additional cost to him/her or his/her family (presumably they are paying taxes whether they own or rent).

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Yeah, the point is how it’s presented is all. I think that was Hawkeyes point as well. Free ends the discussion for half the population.

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Originally Posted by Crovash

Obviously nothing is “free.” We’re all paying for it in some form.

Just curious: “free” K-12 is how different from “free” 4 years of college? I have no dog in this fight per se, but I’m curious whether anyone has done the maths here.

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we don't pretend K-12 is free. We also understand a basic level of education benefits our society. It's an arbitrary cutoff point obviously, but university education isn't for everyone, nor should we pretend it be. I think the fear, right or wrong, is if you allow everyone to go to college, we would have a lot of people clogging up our universities that wouldn't be there otherwise. While I don't believe that to be true, it's a stigma obviously. Like, janitors aren't going to need a college education. Obviously trade schools, and other programs fit under this, but for the purpose of the exercise, we are assuming "college" means a 4 year university.

So with simple math, even if we pretend paying professors is the same as a K teacher, we would need to raise everyones "property" taxes (or however we want to fund it) by 33% to pay for an additional 4 years of education.

At the end of the day, and I am documented many times saying this, I wish we pulled half our military budget and shifted it directly to education/urban infrastructure. College should be made available, but with checks in place like certain GPA's maintained, and your path to a degree taking 4 years, and if you don't meet certain checks, you lose your funding. It gives opportunity, but then takes away from anyone not capable of meeting the demands.

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Originally Posted by benny01

Yeah, the point is how it’s presented is all. I think that was Hawkeyes point as well. Free ends the discussion for half the population.

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yes

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Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

We’re you paying attention at all during the passage of the bills? And yea sorry she didn’t get the “nobody has to do **** they don’t want to want to do and life is easy” Act of 2009...

Y’all ***** and moan about this every ****ing time. The conservatives are so much smarter than liberals in this specific respect. They can recognize that a win is a win.

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Huh? Do you ever wonder why people hate her?

The base came out and voted for the democrats to have a super majority. Good ole nancy returned the favour with a crappy republican heritage foundation plan. She passed nothing to help people and instead continued to pass ****** neoliberal policies that led to the rise of lord cheeto. Under her leadership the democrats got wiped out on the local, state and federal level. She's the face of status quo, establishment politics.

She doesn't give two ***** about her base. Atleast conservatives are scared about their base. Liberals just shame theres and tell em to get in line (kinda how you still blame jill stein and bernie for hilary losing).

She's awesome to her donors though. She openly brags about how shes the best fundraiser the democrats have. Hmmm I wonder why?

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

we don't pretend K-12 is free. We also understand a basic level of education benefits our society. It's an arbitrary cutoff point obviously, but university education isn't for everyone, nor should we pretend it be. I think the fear, right or wrong, is if you allow everyone to go to college, we would have a lot of people clogging up our universities that wouldn't be there otherwise. While I don't believe that to be true, it's a stigma obviously. Like, janitors aren't going to need a college education. Obviously trade schools, and other programs fit under this, but for the purpose of the exercise, we are assuming "college" means a 4 year university.

So with simple math, even if we pretend paying professors is the same as a K teacher, we would need to raise everyones "property" taxes (or however we want to fund it) by 33% to pay for an additional 4 years of education.

At the end of the day, and I am documented many times saying this, I wish we pulled half our military budget and shifted it directly to education/urban infrastructure. College should be made available, but with checks in place like certain GPA's maintained, and your path to a degree taking 4 years, and if you don't meet certain checks, you lose your funding. It gives opportunity, but then takes away from anyone not capable of meeting the demands.

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This is exactly how it should be done, in my opinion, as well.

There are numerous problems that a "free college" education would cause.

1. I want a refund for all that I have paid for my two kids. Who do I see?

2. There are numerous kids in college now that should not be there, are wasting time and space, and are running up expensive tabs. Not everyone is college material. Start free tuition and everyone would be in there, qualified or not.

3. Kids would be in college longer than they are now, if that's possible.

4. You would need to build more facilities…I don't think contractors and construction companies would be willing to build them for free.

5. (Here's the biggee) as soon as you get everyone free tuition, liberals will start on Student Loan Forgiveness because "it's really unfair how they have to pay when others don't" or "all this debt is just preventing them from getting on with their lives," or "these loans are so unfair since the banks are making so much money." or "tada yada yada."

It's a stupid idea that we probably will see in the not to distant future.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

There are numerous problems that a "free college" education would cause.

1. I want a refund for all that I have paid for my two kids. Who do I see?

2. There are numerous kids in college now that should not be there, are wasting time and space, and are running up expensive tabs. Not everyone is college material. Start free tuition and everyone would be in there, qualified or not.

3. Kids would be in college longer than they are now, if that's possible.

4. You would need to build more facilities…I don't think contractors and construction companies would be willing to build them for free.

5. (Here's the biggee) as soon as you get everyone free tuition, liberals will start on Student Loan Forgiveness because "it's really unfair how they have to pay when others don't" or "all this debt is just preventing them from getting on with their lives," or "these loans are so unfair since the banks are making so much money." or "tada yada yada."

It's a stupid idea that we probably will see in the not to distant future.

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I see you haven't paid attention to any of the discussion. Every single one of those points has been debunked or addressed in how they would work.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

we don't pretend K-12 is free. We also understand a basic level of education benefits our society. It's an arbitrary cutoff point obviously, but university education isn't for everyone, nor should we pretend it be. I think the fear, right or wrong, is if you allow everyone to go to college, we would have a lot of people clogging up our universities that wouldn't be there otherwise. While I don't believe that to be true, it's a stigma obviously. Like, janitors aren't going to need a college education. Obviously trade schools, and other programs fit under this, but for the purpose of the exercise, we are assuming "college" means a 4 year university.

So with simple math, even if we pretend paying professors is the same as a K teacher, we would need to raise everyones "property" taxes (or however we want to fund it) by 33% to pay for an additional 4 years of education.

At the end of the day, and I am documented many times saying this, I wish we pulled half our military budget and shifted it directly to education/urban infrastructure. College should be made available, but with checks in place like certain GPA's maintained, and your path to a degree taking 4 years, and if you don't meet certain checks, you lose your funding. It gives opportunity, but then takes away from anyone not capable of meeting the demands.

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Yep. That’s why I’m an advocate of something similiar to the German system, which is by no means even tuition free(don’t know where that myth was started). They start separating kids based on performance at the junior high level, with avenues that allow underperforming kids to turn things around so that they aren’t locked in at 13-14.

I’d start with a system here that rewards the top 25% of top performers(at individual schools)with tuition free state school. I’d like to see money made available (grants,loans) to those that want to attend CC and extend tuition free benefits to the top performers there that want to continue their education. I’d take ten percent out of the military budget to pay for it. Those cuts would be reducing the size of the military, rather than the quality of facilities, equipment, training, education etc..Then i’d move toward a tiered k-12 system following the German model looking to clean up the inefficiencies that many have pointed to in the system along the way.

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Originally Posted by DeW-Star

I see you haven't paid attention to any of the discussion. Every single one of those points has been debunked or addressed in how they would work.

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So I can get a refund?

Great!!!!

Who do I see?

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You have to be delirious to think that these things will not happen. It is human nature.

Delirious.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

So I can get a refund?

Great!!!!

Who do I see?

___________________


You have to be delirious to think that these things will not happen. It is human nature.

Delirious.

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Looking for handouts?

Must be miserable to be you, just couldn’t quite make it and it’s everyones fault but your own.

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Originally Posted by benny01

Looking for handouts?

Must be miserable to be you, just couldn’t quite make it and it’s everyones fault but your own.

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Yeah. It's tough going through life not depending on anyone else, never looking for anything or anyone to help me along, being able to afford what I want, when I want, not worrying about what's coming in the mail or who the phone caller might be. It's terrible knowing that when life's little surprises come along that I'm prepared to take care of it financially and not one car repair away from the poor house.

It's just awful.

Sure there will be problems. There’s no perfect...anything. But do those nit picky issues outweigh crippling debt that holds back middle class workers out of college and prevents people from going to college in the first place, lowering the collective education of our adult population? I don’t think so.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Yeah. It's tough going through life not depending on anyone else, never looking for anything or anyone to help me along, being able to afford what I want, when I want, not worrying about what's coming in the mail or who the phone caller might be. It's terrible knowing that when life's little surprises come along that I'm prepared to take care of it financially and not one car repair away from the poor house.

It's just awful.

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You sound like a renter I had that used to tell me how rich he was and always complained about black folks on welfare stealing his money. When he moved out I kept getting his food stamp renewals in the mailbox. Awful bitter about a policy that will cost you pennies for a guy that doing so well.

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Originally Posted by benny01

You sound like a renter I had that used to tell me how rich he was and always complained about black folks on welfare stealing his money. When he moved out I kept getting his food stamp renewals in the mailbox. Awful bitter about a policy that will cost you pennies for a guy that doing so well.

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You post has absolutely no relevance.