Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Originally Posted by fingerbang

I'm the one talking about the actual deal. I'm the one bringing up things that are in it. I actually read the thing. The gist of the deal is we're gonna wave a magic wand and be completely 100% renewable in 10 years and we're going to pack in every single democratic socialist policy we have.

That ain't a middle ground.

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You just asked some weird question about if it was Trump...

Like were you actually implying the best response to any disagreement with a policy of Trump/AOC/Any politician you supposedly don't like is to ignore all context, come up with straw man arguments, ignore/don't provide any data/stats and then bash the other side as extreme/the entirety of their plan ****?

You are ignoring points being made about the deal in order to push the AOC is a socialist, this is BS, you used sources I don't/I won't respond to this, what about what about what about, this team can't win in congress. It is just ridiculous

I'm sure you'd totally support a republican proposed green new deal if they shoehorned in ALL of their conservative policies, right?

Just a middle ground for us "bipartisans". Haha.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

Some parts do get extreme, with a lot of other parts being good/popular/not extreme lol. You just refuse to acknowledge anything outside of the extreme aspects/strawman stuff though to keep playing the game.

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I may have missed something here, so my apologies if I did. But I keep seeing you demand that he justifies the extreme, but I'm not seeing you justify what's not extreme in the proposal.

All I am reading is that you keep saying that the crux of the proposed deal outweighs the extreme components of the deal. Could you kindly explain to us what these components of the deal are? Because all you are doing is chastising him for calling a pile of ****, a pile of ****.

Since the outline has been released the dem socialists have wisely avoided talking about what's in it. They even semi-backed off it. Because there's a term for it - it's called bait and switch.

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Originally Posted by fingerbang

I'm sure you'd totally support a republican proposed green new deal if they shoehorned in ALL of their conservative policies, right?

Just a middle ground for us "bipartisans". Haha.

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What do you mean by support? I would support certain aspects just like I have here but I would likely have a lot more issues if there was a lot of things I strongly disagreed with and point those out too. What I wouldn't do is just say he is racist this sucks and ignore everything someone was saying within a discussion.

It is a middle ground because there is a lot of good to many independents with some bad stuff/issues mixed in leading to that split. That doesn't mean no aspect is extreme at all it just means a lot of people like enough of it to offset their fear of some of those issues.

As I have been saying what should be done with a plan like this is take out those extreme aspects but we cant really discuss much further than the normal BS around here because you refuse to get off that rhetoric/team game/winning stuff. I don't really care what you believe about what I would do if a republican proposed a deal with a bunch of policies that we don't know lol

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

What do you mean by support? I would support certain aspects just like I have here but I would likely have a lot more issues if there was a lot of things I strongly disagreed with and point those out too. What I wouldn't do is just say he is racist this sucks and ignore everything someone was saying within a discussion.

It is a middle ground because there is a lot of good to many independents with some bad stuff/issues mixed in leading to that split. That doesn't mean no aspect is extreme at all it just means a lot of people like enough of it to offset their fear of some of those issues.

As I have been saying what should be done with a plan like this is take out those extreme aspects but we cant really discuss much further than the normal BS around here because you refuse to get off that rhetoric/team game/winning stuff. I don't really care what you believe about what I would do if a republican proposed a deal with a bunch of policies that we don't know lol

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What part isn't extreme? Because even the idea of going off fossil fuels in 10 years, which I would like if it was doable, isn't feasible.

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Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

I may have missed something here, so my apologies if I did. But I keep seeing you demand that he justifies the extreme, but I'm not seeing you justify what's not extreme in the proposal.

All I am reading is that you keep saying that the crux of the proposed deal outweighs the extreme components of the deal. Could you kindly explain to us what these components of the deal are? Because all you are doing is chastising him for calling a pile of ****, a pile of ****.

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What do you mean? All I have been saying is that there is good and bad within and we need to look more in depth than just bashing without reason. He just keeps going along with the same rhetoric, if he has issues that it is BS I am saying call them out.

I agree with a lot of the environmental aspects and have linked a lot of sources throughout covering support on specific policies much of which I agree (we never went in depth because he never responds to what I say).

Like none of this conversation has gone anywhere because he is saying the same thing on repeat without making any points or responding to the things I do say.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

What do you mean? All I have been saying is that there is good and bad within and we need to look more in depth than just bashing without reason. He just keeps going along with the same rhetoric, if he has issues that it is BS I am saying call them out.

I agree with a lot of the environmental aspects and have linked a lot of sources throughout covering support on specific policies much of which I agree (we never went in depth because he never responds to what I say).

Like none of this conversation has gone anywhere because he is saying the same thing on repeat without making any points or responding to the things I do say.

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I know all you have been saying is that there is good and bad, but what I haven't seen is you detail the good. He has definitely detailed the bad.

This conversation is going nowhere because all you are doing is telling him he's wrong, while not telling him why your right. I mean polls? C'mon man.

The democratic socialists agenda is:

Free healthcare
Free education
Housing for all
Jobs guarantee
Abolition of ICE and relaxed borders
etc
etc

Somehow all that stuff was magically shoehorned into an energy proposal made by... you guessed it - democratic socialists. So people call the proposal out for what it is, a socialist plan made by socialists and people like gopher get offended. You can't make it up.

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Originally Posted by fingerbang

What part isn't extreme? Because even the idea of going off fossil fuels in 10 years, which I would like if it was doable, isn't feasible.

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Hmmmmmm I guess this might be a fair point. I guess I would be arguing that even if extreme some of these ideas are good/necessary given the problem then because I would be for that measure although would need more info on what timeframe is necessary (thought it was 2050).

Most of the issues I was posting about earlier about renewable energy etc. I am for, again with the time frame often needing discussion or me looking more into.

I like the clean water aspects. Changing waste cleanup.

As I stated there are a lot of general aspects I liked when reading through but I have tons of the same issues you mention too. I think we should be discussing those aspects instead of fighting back and forth about good/bad or winning/losing which I am totally down to do.

In fact I haven't stated at all whether or not I would vote for this plan if given a chance, all I have tried arguing are that there are enough good aspects not to totally write it off.

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Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

I know all you have been saying is that there is good and bad, but what I haven't seen is you detail the good. He has definitely detailed the bad.

This conversation is going nowhere because all you are doing is telling him he's wrong, while not telling him why your right. I mean polls? C'mon man.

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He has only asked about a few things, I gave him links trying to answer on those issues and he totally ignored it saying nice sources or something. We easily could have had a discussion if at any point he chose to respond to me like I have him. We can't go in depth when the bar is moving like that in order to get back to the same rhetoric.

All I have done is call out his constant ignoring what I am saying and pushing that rhetoric because it stops legitimate conversation from happening lol. You are just kinda pointing out why that happens. I responded to him talking about it's popularity and now you both have used that as a negative lol. It's almost like context has 0 meaning to some here.

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Originally Posted by fingerbang

The democratic socialists agenda is:

Free healthcare
Free education
Housing for all
Jobs guarantee
Abolition of ICE and relaxed borders
etc
etc

Somehow all that stuff was magically shoehorned into an energy proposal made by... you guessed it - democratic socialists. So people call the proposal out for what it is, a socialist plan made by socialists and people like gopher get offended. You can't make it up.

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Lol you just can't ever respond to me but instead need to do this thing where you make up things for me

I am not angry that some posters on this site are incapable of being rational, that's expected. I call out anyone using extreme rhetoric without context, use strawman, play sides/what about and so on in the same manner.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

He has only asked about a few things, I gave him links trying to answer on those issues and he totally ignored it saying nice sources or something. We easily could have had a discussion if at any point he chose to respond to me like I have him. We can't go in depth when the bar is moving like that in order to get back to the same rhetoric.

All I have done is call out his constant ignoring what I am saying and pushing that rhetoric because it stops legitimate conversation from happening lol. You are just kinda pointing out why that happens.

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Yep. That's all you have done, call him out. You have yet to detail why this deal is the medium. All you are doing is telling him he's wrong. You've literally typed 1000's of words in this thread but not one of your sentences has detailed why this isn't a whacko proposition. All you are doing is telling people you're correct and they are wrong. That is what I am asking you to do. Make a legitimate conversation without telling him he's not making a legitimate conversation.

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Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

Yep. That's all you have done, call him out. You have yet to detail why this deal is the medium. All you are doing is telling him he's wrong. You've literally typed 1000's of words in this thread but not one of your sentences has detailed why this isn't a whacko proposition. All you are doing is telling people you're correct and they are wrong. That is what I am asking you to do. Make a legitimate conversation without telling him he's not making a legitimate conversation.

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Like explain why climate change is bad and we need this stuff or just like the stuff I mentioned above?

Explain which aspects of this I like as in renewable energy, fossil fuel emissions, water protection, clean air etc? In what ways like this isn't something anyone else has done here you are basically asking for me to explain all the positives of this bill in full it seems when the only thing I have argued is that there are positives within and it all doesn't suck but that apparently is a crazy stance to you guys.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

Lol you just can't ever respond to me but instead need to do this thing where you make up things for me

I am not angry that some posters on this site are incapable of being rational, that's expected. I call out anyone using extreme rhetoric without context, use strawman, play sides/what about and so on in the same manner.

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There's nothing extreme about what I said. She's a self described socialist. Those are the goals of the party. All that stuff is wedged into the proposal, feel free to read it.