20 trillion is 4 times more than $5 trillion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
$5 trillion is the price america had to pay for electing an incompetent man to office.
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20 trillion is 4 times more than $5 trillion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
$5 trillion is the price america had to pay for electing an incompetent man to office.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
The 2017 tax cuts cost $5T. So it would just be a few of those. Trump was trying to pass another one, so I can't imagine that cost is really the issue for Republicans about the GND.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
How much is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
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it is a lot of money!Quote:
Originally Posted by ewing
it's like at least 50 Jeff Bezozes
I don't think I understand much of this paragraph.Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSpock
Are you just saying it means nothing and it achieves nothing because it's a political long shot (honestly, to say the least)?
Or is it because Democrats have a better solution to combat climate change? If so, please point me towards that.
I don't know dude. We're in another recession. Again. The natural cycle of capitalism. This is a pie in the sky and I think most admit that. But real and significant problems demand bold responses. The GND isn't just about weening us off of oil and towards sustainable, safer and long-term energy options. It seeks to boost the economy, our country's lagging infrastructure and so much more. It's a massive thing. I get why people are inherently skeptical. When has our government ever pitched big, bold action? Besides starting wars?? But in a perfect world where we aren't fighting endless wars and just throwing money at billionaires every chance we get, this is the sort of thing that should inspire a country. Aren't we supposed to be the greatest country? Don't we have all the wealth and resources in the world? Why shouldn't we aspire to be leaders?
Why are we so OK with our archaic infrastructure. Our dependency on foreign oil? Our preference for **** like coal?
It kills like 5012 birds with one stone.
And man, basically everything Obama "did" was performative and easily upended the second he left office. We became an even bigger exporter of oil under his administration. All I see are half steps everywhere. And honestly, not even half steps. I think a bold investment in the green future of this country in a wide-ranging way would be wonderful. Work to ween us off oil. Build up our archaic infrastructure. A massive jobs program would go so far.
I know it's a longshot. Not even a long shot. An impossibility right now. But we know how politics work. It's all about posturing, getting the message out, building support and then gradually getting things done. Our congress is so broken. I'm not disillusioned. But man, good things are worth fighting for. It's all the easier when the critics have no answers themselves. Any percentage of the things in the GND being achieved would be a win. Meaningful progress.
I'm also sometimes uncertain that critics actually believe in the immediacy of the threat of climate change. I think before anything else I'd like to hear from you about how real and significant of a problem you think it is. If you're a denier to an extent, then I probably am best just going on my merry way.
And for the record, the GND is not anything new. It's just been brought to the mainstream. By a bunch of people who are ineffective politicians I guess. As we're told hundreds of times a month by weird and obsessive right wingers.
I wish people actually believed Obama when he said "hope" and "change". I wish people held him to it. Better things are possible.
QUOTE=ewing;33724921]How much is it?
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You're a big boy,try to figure it out.
Gee. The last thing we want would be politicians who consider policies that may (I admit, no guarantee) have a beneficial effect for future generations, even if that consideration amounts to simply opening America’s eyes to long-range options and possibilities.
Obama's biggest failure might ultimately be how little he actually ended up fighting for "hope" and "change". So many Liberals just don't think better things are possible. The status quo is what we got and since it works for us it's fine. But it isn't working for most people.
Based on his most recent comments I feel like he's willing to go to his grave believing that his conservatism was justified because it was the only way. Whether it's his stance on drones or this new "snappy slogans" stuff. It's what happens when you spend almost the entirety of your Presidency telling everyone that he couldn't wipe his own *** without permission from Republicans.
A grim assessment, but yeah. I loved Candidate Obama. I still think he was genuine and sincere. But President Obama...I don't know man. I get more and more cynical as the days go on.
And why all this outrage about "defund the police" from the centrists after the election :eyebrow: Feels calculated. Another case of Democrats letting Republicans frame these issues the way they want. Imagine if instead of blaming people who support that POLICY WANT (not a "snappy slogan") he explained what it meant. Contributed to the discourse. Shaped and framed the argument the way it deserves to be. Instead he's playing into the right's hand. Imagine if he came out and gave a quick speech about how Defund the Police meant that we need to reallocate money and resources so that cops aren't showing up armed to a tee when someone is having a mental health crisis? Come on dude...
The drone comment from the other day too. Obama always juxtaposes casualties caused by drone strikes with "what if we sent in the 69th Armored Division (or whatever)...think of all the hypothetical deaths!". Like those are the only two choices....
I still don't love railing on him but I don't know...I think it's important to be critical so as to demand better and learn from mistakes.
You're a big boy,try to figure it out.[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo1
You should figure out how to properly quote someone first
You should figure out how to properly quote someone first[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
This is what the post said………
QUOTE=ewing;33724921]How much is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
You're a big boy,try to figure it out.
……………
So what was it that I did wrong or that you didn't understand???
You consistently **** up when trying to quote other posters. Get it together, guy.
One less drink of bourbon a day, it's all we ask Sluggo! It's because we care!Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)
Never.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
How do you think I am able to tolerate some of the people here.
Alcohol is a carefully planned gift from God (are you still able to say God here???).
It was sent to us from above to prevent the Irish from ruling the world.
There is no "Green New Deal" as far as a bill goes. It is a 14 page suggestion. It's a non binding agreement. It's literally just a political tool to get things moving. It's not some massive bill that would be effective immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManRam
And hey if it worked, it would of been great. Even if it was rolled out perfectly it was a long shot. I'm not for everything in the deal, but that isn't the point. But she flubbed it. Which honestly isn't surprising for a Freshman Rep. She made mistakes. She'll do better next time.
But SocDems seem to think the GND is some huge bill that if passed will get the ball rolling on 100% clean energy. It's not.
It kills no birds, and has no stones. I don't think the Green New Deal is what you think it is.
And I think it's a significant problem. I personally think we should stop using climate change as the only reason to get off oil, because it would be helpful in numerous ways. Want less wars? Get off Oil. Want cleaner air? Get off oil. Hell the Christian right even use to have a big section of environmentalism dedicated toward "protecting Gods planet" or whatever.
But maybe it's a pipe dream to get the Republican voters to believe this. As they like to believe "big science money" is a problem and not "big oil money".
Not a denier at all. This is again about politics and getting **** done. Passing laws. The GND doesn't actually implement anything.
1. I don't think you guys realize how ****ing difficult it is to pass a Health reform bill. It's a historic achievement.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManRam
2. What comments about conservatism?
3. Defund the police? Maybe the polling that shows 24% of voters find it positive. Or the fact Max Rose lost his election by 15 points because the GOP pushed adds saying he was anti cop. It's clearly the GOP's strategy for taking the swing states next election. Why does there have to be a hidden agenda when the truth is blatantly obvious?
4. It really does seem like you love railing on him. What is wrong with drones? I mean you wont a non interventionalist policy right? Isn't that your problem with Obama? What is specifically detrimental about the use of drones?