Being reported Dwight will announce decision on Friday, earlier than expected.
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Being reported Dwight will announce decision on Friday, earlier than expected.
Looks like we are not the only one's thinking this way!:rolleyes:Quote:
Sources: Hawks Likely To 'Tank' If Howard Doesn't Sign
Jul 03, 2013 1:22 AM EDT
The Atlanta Hawks created cap space to pursue Dwight Howard this offseason.
With Howard appearing likely to sign elsewhere, sources say the Hawks likely won't pursue players to become a playoff contender in order to improve their odds in the 2014 lottery.
"I think we may all be UNDERESTIMATING number of teams considering tanking this year. Been flooded with calls from GMs re 2014 draft class," wrote Ford on Twitter.
Beyond Andrew Wiggins at the top of the 2014 draft, the deep class could include the likes of Aaron Gordon, Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Andrew Harrison and Marcus Smart.
Via Chad Ford/ESPN
It should be the obvious thing, but some people wants to be stuck in the middle. New GM/Coach that share the same vision of building a team...........and they can't rebuild? They should have every right to.Quote:
Originally Posted by SB75
Me and you are on the same page. These players haven't played a college game, yet some people want to throw away a season for a "chance" to draft them. If we put out a good lineup, its no telling what a new system Can do for some of these Players, in a new city.Quote:
Originally Posted by afrazier26583868
So, even if we decide to tsnk just because we don't get Howard, how bad do you think we'll be? Bobcats bad, or wizards bad? With Teague, Horford, Lou, and whatever else guys we sign is enough for at least 30 wins, and that might only merit us a top ten pick. Not to mention we may not be the worst tram in the East, plus there will be bad west teams. Even if that was the case, i dont see us being so bad, where we could land a top 5 pick. You guys are quoting a college basketball guru who isnt a Nba expert. DH wont automatically get us to the finals. We have alot of sticks in the pot to build a very good team.Quote:
Originally Posted by *Silverback
I would almost rather get a 3rd team involved in a potential S&T-Josh-to-HOU scenario so we can get future draft picks with more upside than the low level picks we'd get from Morey. That Rockets team, if Dwight signs there and is fully recovered, could easily go for 60+ wins in the regular season, killing the draft value we'd be looking for, with Howard and Harden clearly Top 10 players while Top-30-to-40ish Josh serves in the 3rd/4th option role which has always been his ceiling. Best case scenario for us in terms of value would be shipping Josh to a bad or borderline playoff team that has a 'questionable' front office, like Detroit or Cleveland, in exchange for picks and waiting for that team to screw it all up somehow then hoping the ping pongs go our way.
If the goal is to tank, you more than likely have to trade Horford simply because it's obvious he is a competitor and would do everything to carry a team of scrubs to the playoffs out of pride. Actually, now that I think about it, if we're trying to tank you might be better off re-signing Josh and trading Al because (1) Al has been the smarter, superior all-around player between the two... and (2) the odds are MUCH higher between the two that Josh will turn into a petulant child and locker room problem if he's here once the losing starts (since we saw it happen during a losing skid this past season, resulting in him getting suspended by Ferry), which would actually help the Hawks lose even more.
Lots of, shall we say, "unintentional comedy" in this thread since I was last on here though.
So we can look at it like we have JSmith and JTeague available through sign and trade and we have AHorford and LWilliams available. If we are gonna tank we have to trade em all to contend for Wiggins or any other top pick. The problem with the trades tho is we will likely not get a lotto pick for them bc the teams that will want to trade for them are looking to contend. Any young players you wanna see that have a lot of potential but won't make us contenders? I like Thomas Robinson and Andre Drummond.
We are really playing a game of luck with the ping pong ball and being as we have botch high picks before I really am not looking forward to it. Will be ok I guess I like DF just wish we did a little better in the draft but hey we might have drafted the next super stars in the league
How could the nba allow teams to dis honor the sport by purposely loosing why even play the season why not just let the season start with the teams that have a chance. This just makes me think the nba is really fixed. I sure wouldn't go to a game I know my team wants to loose just forfit the games don't waste the hard working mans money. I bet all the teams that are tanking are not going to lower their ticket prices
The Hawks have had 'stars' over the last decade. It's relatively easy to become a 'star' in the NBA. What the Hawks need, according to fans, is a SUPERstar... Someone who can sell out the building and get the whiny fans to put up or shut up in terms of buying tickets and merchandise. A unifying force. Since 2004 (which was when this previous run basically began), the Hawks have ranked 20th or worse in attendance every year but once. So despite some guys being 'stars' or known around the league, we have proof that no one who has been on the roster is packing the building, which should put a strict limit on what each guy is worth as far as a contract. Even when the team was winning 50+ games, people didn't come or care. It's not the fans fault entirely, just the way things are when you have a team that does stupid things like justify Marvin over CP3 and Deron, etc.
Also, it's looking more and more like Daryl Morey did not trade for a star, but rather, he traded for a SUPERSTAR in Harden. When people doubted JH after his poor performance in the Finals, he came back and showed what he can do as 'the man', had a chance to win MVP. Just shows how silly some of those debates and comparisons were when he was rumored to be on the trade block. Now Harden is recruiting others... that's what superstars-not-named-Derrick-Rose do.
That team is a first round exit! You have two defensive liability's in the starting line-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by westside
If the goal is a Championship, I really don't see why there is a split in this forum. Horford/Smoove/Williams/Joe/Teague..aint nothing Ferry can do this offseason that's gonna allow him to field a squad better than that one. We all know how the story ended with this team. Was that squad a CP3 and the right coach away from at least making to a championship..we will never know. Point is, the Hawks are not competing for a championship next year. If you have a chance at getting a top 3 pick in next year's draft, you have to do it. Now, is the time to build a new foundation. You don't have to have the worst record to get the #1 pick, this is not the NFL. If I'm the Hawks I'm trying to acquire young talent & assets, while putting as many Ping-Pong balls in that lottery as I can.
Kyle has a 3yr/20 mil offer on the table, goodbye Kyle. One heck of a shooter, but I would not match that, if I'm Ferry.
what is he going to do then sit on the money if imm not mistaken you have to spend a certain amonut of your cap room. I really can't see how the NBA allows teams to publicly come out and say were going to loose on purpose. I see that this is not about pleasing the fans but lining there already heavy pockets. SMH
Well i for one aint paying to go to a game or buying any gear which i bet every body else fills about this.
Kyle Korver has agreed to resign with the Hawks. 4yr $24 million. I like it.
kinda confused now....
Maybe for Howard? Or Korver signing was for the cap space that we have to sign players to, even if we tank?
[QUOTE=*Silver&Black*;26591525]Maybe for Howard? Or Korver signing was for the cap sapce that we have to sign players to, even if we tank?[/QUOTE]
That's what I was thinking, but why would Korver pass up teams like the Spurs and Nets.... unless we were offering way more money?
[QUOTE=thomass;26591575]More money obviously. Nets can't off more that vet min and Spurs wouldn't have enough either.Quote:
Originally Posted by *Silver&Black*
[QUOTE=*Silver&Black*;26591608]gotcha. he would have fit real nicely on that spurs team. that's too bad for them. they could have used him in game 7 lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomass
Yeah. Interested to see what other moves happen (Dwight's decision). I highly doubt he will start spending out of desperation if we don't get Howard, so this Korver signing is curious to me (if it isn't just to fill our cap space up).Quote:
Originally Posted by thomass
Some people on other forums keep posting this line-up:
Teague
Iggy
Smith
Horford
Dwight
Lou and Korver off the bench
Is that even possible cap-wise? I know they would have to take a Miami Heat style pay decrease of what they are wanting, but I just don't see that possible at all. Don't get me wrong though, those players could be tempted to form that if possible. IMO, it's either Iggy or Smith, not both. I don't like that line-up because Howard would need spacing on the court with 3 point shooters. Korver would have to start:
Teague/Dennis
Korver/Lou/Cunningham
Smith/(another shooter FA)
Horford/Scott
Dwight/Muscala
Maybe if you trust Dennis starting with those vets, instead of Teague, use the money to sign a better bench.
I don't like the front court of Howard-Horford-Smith offensively at all. if we get Howard, Korver has to start somewhere, right?
One would think Korver would start. I don't like the Smith/Horford/Howard line-up either but some thinks Howard will base his future on having Josh Smith beside him (I highly doubt that as I also doubt Hawks will trade Horford just for Smith to be the PF). If we are not rebuilding, Horford stays. If we tank, Horford is put on the trade block. Not to mention Horford is a great player to put next to Howard on offense. A PF that can spread the court and CONSISTENTLY make mid-range shots to the point where the defense has to come out, allowing more spacing for Howard (which Smith can not do as no one takes his jump shot seriously and would just double team the paint).Quote:
Originally Posted by ugafan
Again this is all assuming, because Korver could have just been signed to make our salary go up by league rules even if you tank. What better player to use your cap on during a tank than a hot and cold shooter?
The Korver deal necessitates me to post this:
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3...ilding-tankingQuote:
We're at the point where reporters are openly claiming that if Team A doesn't sign Superstar Y, the team will "tank" in 2013-14. As Peachtree Hoops documents, ESPN's Chad Ford has been big on this claim, suggesting that the Hawks will join other "tankers" if Atlanta can't land Dwight Howard.
Our Paul Flannery got at this on Tuesday, but it needs to be repeated again and again: we have a whole lot of different definitions of tanking bouncing around, and none of them really make sense. And the idea that a team can pitch itself to a major free agent, lose the bidding and decide to suck -- it doesn't even make sense!
In my opinion, tanking is an act, not a plan. If I were the arbiter of basketball definitions, to tank would be to intentionally lose one or more games through abnormal rotational decisions, DNPs and/or shooting nights. The Suns sitting a healthy Goran Dragic against his will in March? Tanking. Two teams sitting their top-five players in the final week of the season, and then one of those teams (the Celtics) sitting a hot player the entire fourth? Tanking. The Warriors yanking a rookie because he's too good? Tanking. Mark Madsen firing up seven 3-pointers in the final game of the 2005-06 season? The most egregious tanking ever.
Those are acts of tanking. The Celtics trading Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry for draft picks and contracts? That's not tanking, that's rebuilding. And the reality of rebuilding in the NBA is that the draft is the best, most efficient, most effective and often the most painful path. It's long, arduous and it works. Even if you bail out on it early -- as the C's did in 2007 -- you need the picks because ... other teams are doing the same damn thing.
The Sixers trading a young All-Star for Nerlens Noel and a 2014 pick? That's called selling high and rebuilding. The Hawks deciding that they should not sign a bunch of mid-rung veterans if they do not land Howard? That's called smart team-building. The Raptors trading Andrea Bargnani and possibly Rudy Gay? That's called cleaning up the old tenant's mess. The Bobcats ... I don't know, what exactly are the Bobcats supposed to be doing to avoid the deep lottery right now? Signing Al Jefferson, Jarrett Jack and Kyle Korver?
The anti-tank crowd will bash teams for not putting together a competitive team while bashing other teams for overpaying for marginal players. If we're going to "fix" tanking, focus on actual tanking. Why on Earth would we want to punish bad teams (and their fans)? Isn't being awful punishment enough?
The sentiment especially reeks coming from neutral or fans attached to other teams. If a team sucks, and the fans of that team understand why the team sucks and when it should get better, and the team loses gate receipts, prestige and attention accordingly, what right does a League Pass jockey have to get pissed and demand change? (And like watching the middle-of-the-pack playoff teams -- looking at you, Bucks, Hawks and Celtics -- was any more fun that viewing the Bobcats, Suns and Wizards.)
If there's anything for Adam Silver to do on this subject when he takes over, it's to address the acts of tanking through fines or perhaps more aggressive punishment. The question of what constitutes an act of tanking is not nearly as complicated when you strip all of the rebuilding stuff away. Heck, include a warning system to set some boundaries. When a reporter says the Suns plan to scratch a healthy Dragic for two games, good ol' Stu Jackson can fire up his Batphone and threaten a fine. "Fake an injury like a real tanker," he says. It won't end the practice, but the practice pops up a handful of times every couple of years.
The actual problem of tanking -- once you drill down and define "tanking" reasonably -- just isn't a big deal. It's the conflation of rebuilding with tanking that makes it look so pervasive.
"And like watching the middle-of-the-pack playoff teams -- looking at you, Bucks, Hawks and Celtics -- was any more fun that viewing the Bobcats, Suns and Wizards."
This is what I'm talking about. Why be a middle of the pack team when you have still have the same reputation (no reputation) of winning by being at the bottom and getting better draft selections?
If I read the word "tank" or any other variation, I swear I'm gonna f'n go insane!!! :mad:
Lets take a playoff team with already horrendous attendance and little to no fan base and "rebuild" and/or suck on purpose for the next few years for what?!!!!!!!!! :mad: to "hope" to get the next "can't miss" kid who may or may not transfer his skill to the NBA?
Let's revisit this thread 3-4 years from now when we're still in the basement of the NBA getting laughed at by the rest of the league, fans, media and everyone else...
F--- it... Let's tank, I hope we do get Wiggins, I hope he's a f---'n bust and we really rebuild for the next 10 years... That way I can get season tickets for $1
What do you want to happen if we don't get Howard?Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY
The same ****ing ******** we've been doing the last 5+ years? No thanks on that.
Little Fanbase? What would happen if we stay in the middle?
Now what would happen if we get Wiggins/Parker/Randle? "Fanbase" will go up.
Off-topic, is it true you don't have to spend 90% of your cap to FAs, you could just spread the remaining money to your current roster? Load up on vet min players and give the rest to Horford to sit the year. :)
Hope you all enjoy your "Will Suck For Wiggins" shirts and wear them proudly
I'm sorry, I can't respect a team/owners/front office/ or fan base that will lose on purpose
In the words of Herm Edwards "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!"
In the words of the Phillips Arena: "Let's Go Celtics! Let's Go Bulls! Let's Go Lakers!". This is what has been happening with our desire to stay "competitive".Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY
Also, you posted this right after I posted that article. Do yourself a favor and read that please and stop acting like a ****ing child.Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY
I don't know how some of you can't get this through your heads: THE NBA IS BROKEN. It is the worst professional sports league IN THE WORLD by a huge margin. it's not the NFL or MLB, actually competing isn't that easy. Gotta take one step back to take two steps forward and even then it's not easy.
Nobody wants to lose. We all want to win a championship. Not going to do that spending money on Ellis, etc.
Yeah, I'm honestly genuinely offended that people are insinuating that we want to lose. We want to win, everybody wants to win. Signing players that won't get us over the hump to huge contracts is not the way to do that. If we don't get Dwight, the best team we can field won't be better than our best team with JJ/Smoove/Horford so what do you really want?Quote:
Originally Posted by *Silver&Black*
I'm asking honestly, not facetiously, do you want to be a mediocre playoff team for the foreseeable future? I'm way past that. If you don't like losing, stop watching basketball until the Hawks are good. We have a great football team and a very good baseball team. Watch those sports.
Teague/JJ/Smith/Horford >>>> anything you can put together reasonably in Free agency after Dwight. That is not trying to win to me either.
As a Raiders fan I have spent a decade watching the once proud franchise destroy itself. Now with a respectable GM and new coach, they completely wiped the old team away and started from the bottom, to make a team to their vision and looks to have a brighter future because of that. They didn't keep the busts and the overpaid players just to stay a 7 or 8 win team.
The Hawks could do the same with a now respectable GM and new coach. The biggest draft since Lebron/Melo/Wade sounds like the perfect time to start building a WINNER, not a "well we made the playoffs atleast" franchise.
Oh and the ones like myself that would like us to start from scratch, we are only wanting it IF we can't get a Franchise player otherwise (through Free Agency-Howard or Trade).
If Friday comes along and Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, and Al Horford are all together talking about winning a title for the Hawks, you best believe all of us are on the same page. We want to win.
lol says the guy that has a picture of rondo, howard, horford, and smith all on the same team? And WE are the delusional ones?Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY
I mean honestly... what would YOU RELISTICALLY like for the hawks to do this offseason? You do realize free agents have never flocked to Atlanta? And your approach (which I would assume would have us signing guys like ellis and Iggy) would most likely result in us drafting an endless supply of role players, which again would be fine for making the playoffs, but not fine if you want to accomplish anything of value.
And do you remember the last "can't-miss kid" that was drafted? His name was Lebron ****ing James. But that's not that point. The point is ... if you cant attract big time free agents, you have to build through the draft. What is so hard to understand about this concept? Just look at the team that our new ****ing coach came from.... Duncan, Parker, Leonard, Ginobli, etc. They were all DRAFTED. They weren't big time free agents that the spurs brought it.
Damn my head hurts.
I have no idea what they plan on doing with Korver. I like Korver... But I juss don't see how he fits here unless they thnk they are getting Howard and need a shooter.