Roster Update/Discussion #3

Continue roster discussion here. These are our current players/salaries via spotrac and I included what I have seen for our other signings (and potentials) for camp etc.


Ricky Rubio $13,400,000
Nikola Pekovic $12,100,000
Kevin Garnett $8,000,000
Cole Aldrich $7,643,979
Andrew Wiggins $6,006,600
Karl-Anthony Towns $5,960,160
Jordan Hill $4,000,000
Kris Dunn $3,872,520
Nemanja Bjelica $3,800,000
Brandon Rush $3,500,000
Shabazz Muhammad $3,046,299
Gorgui Dieng $2,348,783
Zach LaVine $2,240,880
Adreian Payne $2,022,240
Tyus Jones PG $1,339,680


Marc SteinVerified account
‏@ESPNSteinLine
The Wolves have signed Toure Murry and John Lucas III to bring them to camp and give both guards a shot at a roster spot, league sources say

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Originally Posted by topdog

Busy day of news/scoops. #Twolves scoop: bringing in FA vets for workouts next week. Among those coming in: Dorell Wright + Rasual Butler.

via Twitter DWolfsonKSTP

I wouldn't mind picking up either of those guys as another shooter off the bench. Of course, Butler isn't much of a defender these days - sort of a traffic cone like Kevin Martin.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

Sounds like we touched base with Norris Cole's agent. I wouldn't mind having him as insurance at all.

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saw same via Wolfson

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...e-Discussion-2

Link to the old thread in case anyone is interested in reading back etc.

we are in an envious situation, with the core, and the salary cap. After this year, we can release and stretch Pekovic, KG comes off the books, we can sit Dieng at the qualifying offer and pay him later, let Shabazz go, and have nearly $40 million in cap space next year to chase guys like Griffin, Millisap, Ibaka, Reddick, etc.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

we are in an envious situation, with the core, and the salary cap. After this year, we can release and stretch Pekovic, KG comes off the books, we can sit Dieng at the qualifying offer and pay him later, let Shabazz go, and have nearly $40 million in cap space next year to chase guys like Griffin, Millisap, Ibaka, Reddick, etc.

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One of those bigs and Reddick would be sweet. I almost prefer Millsap because he might take a shorter contract. Plus his game would be ideal next to KAT.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

we are in an envious situation, with the core, and the salary cap. After this year, we can release and stretch Pekovic, KG comes off the books, we can sit Dieng at the qualifying offer and pay him later, let Shabazz go, and have nearly $40 million in cap space next year to chase guys like Griffin, Millisap, Ibaka, Reddick, etc.

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I just hope we do have that mindset come the end of this season.

Since about when Love blossomed (2010?), it seems everyone within the Wolves has said 'we'll chase big-name guys to fill out the roster "next year"'.

Since 2010, 'next year' has come and gone.

At some point, we really do need to take that next step. Every trade/FA signing is a risk, but it's one we need to take if we want to win in the Playoffs.

PF for me is a huge hole we need to fill. It's probably our deepest position, yet it's also our weakest. We took a risk on Payne, which didn't work out, we signed Bjelica, who may still become a solid role-player but I don't think he's starting-caliber. We have KG. Jordan Hill & Dieng can both play it some. But we need to address a long-term fit.

yeah, Milisap should be a target. Seeing as he is a very good defender, Thib's will probably chase him.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

yeah, Milisap should be a target. Seeing as he is a very good defender, Thib's will probably chase him.

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Like Millsap a bunch but am a bit leery of sining a 32 year old (next year) to a long term deal with a pretty high probability that he falls of a cliff when he falls off...... Would prefer Ibaka who is several years younger if signing a 4 or 5 year deal..... after that it is slim pickens though.

Griffin just doesn't seem to fit as far as I am concerned price or personality.

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Originally Posted by specialiststeve

Like Millsap a bunch but am a bit leery of sining a 32 year old (next year) to a long term deal with a pretty high probability that he falls of a cliff when he falls off...... Would prefer Ibaka who is several years younger if signing a 4 or 5 year deal..... after that it is slim pickens though.

Griffin just doesn't seem to fit as far as I am concerned price or personality.

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Millisap doesn't rely on athleticism though, so his fall off won't be cliff like, it will be gradual.

Not sure the best place for this, but Thibs formally announced some additions to the coaching staff including shooting coach Peter Patton. Both Rubio and Dunn could really stand to benefit assuming this is a full-time position for the Depaul single-season 3pt % record-holder.

via Star-Tribune

we have a bunch on the NBA GM survey (something I am a documented non-fan of). Fun, but whatever:

http://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2016

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If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. Karl-Anthony Towns, Minnesota – 48.3%
2. Kevin Durant, Golden State – 20.7%
3. LeBron James, Cleveland – 17.2%
Also receiving votes: Stephen Curry, Golden State; Anthony Davis, New Orleans; Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio; Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City
Last year: Anthony Davis – 86.2%

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Which team will be most improved in 2016-17?
1. Minnesota – 56.7%
2. Utah – 23.3%
3. New York – 10.0%
Also receiving votes: Boston, Houston, L.A. Lakers
Last year: Oklahoma City – 25.0%

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

we have a bunch on the NBA GM survey (something I am a documented non-fan of). Fun, but whatever:

http://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2016

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"But, but, but, New York signed Derrick Rose and every player on the Lakers in a future Allstar!"

People forgot Anthony Davis too soon lol, I say tie between Towns and Davis(player to build a franchise around)

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Originally Posted by Aleksandar

People forgot Anthony Davis too soon lol, I say tie between Towns and Davis(player to build a franchise around)

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except, Davis misses 15-20 games a year. That matters.

Thats pretty cool everyone loves Towns. Dude is a special player. Wow, still in disbelief the Twolves hit on a pick so strong.

Its amazing the future that the Wolves have in front of them. Seriously just keep them all and ride with them. Add an awesome free agent this offseason and lets go!!!!! I'm happy that they are going to have an 8-12 year run of exciting plays, players and some success. Good job drafting Wolves. (Never thought I'd say that).

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

except, Davis misses 15-20 games a year. That matters.

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Plus, as this is a hypothetical, Towns being three years his junior is also in Towns' favor, if you were building a franchise from scratch.

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Originally Posted by ellington19

Plus, as this is a hypothetical, Towns being three years his junior is also in Towns' favor, if you were building a franchise from scratch.

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well yeah. Would you rather start a franchise, built for the next 5 years, with a soon to be 32 year old LeBron, or a soon to be 21 year old Towns? That is kind of the point. He even beat out guys like KD, Leonard, and Curry, who are all in their mid to late 20's. Just shows you how high of a ceiling most think Towns has. In reality, Towns at 20, simply gives you a lot longer window to get it right, than picking anyone else currently, no matter how good they are.

Injuries are all that stand in the way. And with our luck, that is a possibility, no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

well yeah. Would you rather start a franchise, built for the next 5 years, with a soon to be 32 year old LeBron, or a soon to be 21 year old Towns? That is kind of the point. He even beat out guys like KD, Leonard, and Curry, who are all in their mid to late 20's. Just shows you how high of a ceiling most think Towns has. In reality, Towns at 20, simply gives you a lot longer window to get it right, than picking anyone else currently, no matter how good they are.

Injuries are all that stand in the way. And with our luck, that is a possibility, no doubt.

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SHHHHHHHHHHHH...don't speak of such things...the power of words.

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Minnesota still engaged in trade talks on Tyus Jones, including with Philadelphia, league sources tell @TheVertical.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) October 22, 2016

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Looks like the Sixers have interest in Tyus Jones and apparently talks are heating up. Minnesota wants a big man. not sure what big man they would want in return, but I assume for Tyus Jones it won't be in the Noel category.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to trade Tyus. He is very young and has shown some nice potential. I would hate to have him go to another team at this point and have him possibly blow up or become a very good bench guard. He is making close to nothing and our PG situation is still very up in the air with Rubio being a ? long term and Dunn still being unproven. Just keep the guy as a 3rd PG and drop Lucas, hell we can probably even keep Lucas if they really want that veteran depth (not a fan of holding 4 PG's).

Also, I am not really sure why the Wolves believe they need another big man at this point at the expense of Jones (assuming that is correct). They have some decent front-court depth with Dieng/Aldrich/Bjelica/Hill...

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Originally Posted by Wisdom Listens

Looks like the Sixers have interest in Tyus Jones and apparently talks are heating up. Minnesota wants a big man. not sure what big man they would want in return, but I assume for Tyus Jones it won't be in the Noel category.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to trade Tyus. He is very young and has shown some nice potential. I would hate to have him go to another team at this point and have him possibly blow up or become a very good bench guard. He is making close to nothing and our PG situation is still very up in the air with Rubio being a ? long term and Dunn still being unproven. Just keep the guy as a 3rd PG and drop Lucas, hell we can probably even keep Lucas if they really want that veteran depth (not a fan of holding 4 PG's).

Also, I am not really sure why the Wolves believe they need another big man at this point at the expense of Jones (assuming that is correct). They have some decent front-court depth with Dieng/Aldrich/Bjelica/Hill...

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I must admit, I'm a massive fan on Richaun Holmes - whilst I don't want us to move Tyus, if Holmes is involved, I wouldn't be opposed.

I can't see who else it'd be if the report is we're after a 'big man' (praying it's not Jerami Grant).

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Originally Posted by Wisdom Listens

Looks like the Sixers have interest in Tyus Jones and apparently talks are heating up. Minnesota wants a big man. not sure what big man they would want in return, but I assume for Tyus Jones it won't be in the Noel category.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to trade Tyus. He is very young and has shown some nice potential. I would hate to have him go to another team at this point and have him possibly blow up or become a very good bench guard. He is making close to nothing and our PG situation is still very up in the air with Rubio being a ? long term and Dunn still being unproven. Just keep the guy as a 3rd PG and drop Lucas, hell we can probably even keep Lucas if they really want that veteran depth (not a fan of holding 4 PG's).

Also, I am not really sure why the Wolves believe they need another big man at this point at the expense of Jones (assuming that is correct). They have some decent front-court depth with Dieng/Aldrich/Bjelica/Hill...

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It is my opinion that a lot of Minnesota fans either overrate or fail to objectively consider Tyus' potential/worth because he is the hometown kid. His ceiling essentially is Luke Ridnour (whose was a good player but who had a very glaring weakness - defense).

What he's worth to other teams I have no clue, but he's not going to get any minutes outside of garbage time unless one of Rubio or Dunn goes down. I'd be happy just to get a future 1st round pick or high 2nd.

As for Lucas, he is here because he knows Thib's system. As much for practice as anything, he is here to help teach and help with concept.

Tyus, will never be able to legitimately guard an NBA point guard is his major problem. He is absolutely expendable.

Would really like us to take a look at Archie Goodwin.

Unless we're planning on playing Dunn at the 2 some (hope not), I think he'd be a great option off the bench. Fits in perfectly with our roster.

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Originally Posted by Wisdom Listens

Looks like the Sixers have interest in Tyus Jones and apparently talks are heating up. Minnesota wants a big man. not sure what big man they would want in return, but I assume for Tyus Jones it won't be in the Noel category.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to trade Tyus. He is very young and has shown some nice potential. I would hate to have him go to another team at this point and have him possibly blow up or become a very good bench guard. He is making close to nothing and our PG situation is still very up in the air with Rubio being a ? long term and Dunn still being unproven. Just keep the guy as a 3rd PG and drop Lucas, hell we can probably even keep Lucas if they really want that veteran depth (not a fan of holding 4 PG's).

Also, I am not really sure why the Wolves believe they need another big man at this point at the expense of Jones (assuming that is correct). They have some decent front-court depth with Dieng/Aldrich/Bjelica/Hill...

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Tyus is a serviceable 3rd point guard who is trending upward (see summer league MVP). Another plus is that he is cheap for several more years. The problem is that he doesn't fit Thibs point guard mold and that will IMO spell his end in Minnie. Now would be a good time to sell. It would be nice to get a project 4 who has upside (unlike Payne). They could hold the 10/11 position on the team. I could also see a swap with Cleveland for Iman Shumpert.

Note that if we do trade Tyus; I believe Thibs is planning on keeping both Rubio and Dunn for the foreseeable future. This would be a good thing...

I think people are to hard on Tyus. He is a small PG who only played one year in college and is entering his second year. This is a guy who physically won't be ready till about year 4. So judging him now is very premature.

His IQ is through the roof

He was the most consistent player on a championship Duke team

He was the MVP of the preseason

He needs time, but in time he will be a beyond solid backup PG and probably good enough to be a starting "Game Managing" PG who makes no mistakes and always makes the right play along with having a very good 3 ball.

We just have to realize a guy of his stature needs a little more time than most players, and with this young team, we have all the time in the world.

I think we are on pace to legitimately compete for rings after 2 more full seasons. If we can just be patient, I think we will all be extremely happy with Tyus and his role and price tag on this team. If we are able to trade him for Nerlens or Oakafor right now, then by all means, do it. But if its for some scrub unproven, low ceiling big, than forget about it.

Wolves should go sign RJ Hunter. Like right now....

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Originally Posted by IKnowHoops

I think people are to hard on Tyus. He is a small PG who only played one year in college and is entering his second year. This is a guy who physically won't be ready till about year 4. So judging him now is very premature.

His IQ is through the roof

He was the most consistent player on a championship Duke team

He was the MVP of the preseason

He needs time, but in time he will be a beyond solid backup PG and probably good enough to be a starting "Game Managing" PG who makes no mistakes and always makes the right play along with having a very good 3 ball.

We just have to realize a guy of his stature needs a little more time than most players, and with this young team, we have all the time in the world.

I think we are on pace to legitimately compete for rings after 2 more full seasons. If we can just be patient, I think we will all be extremely happy with Tyus and his role and price tag on this team. If we are able to trade him for Nerlens or Oakafor right now, then by all means, do it. But if its for some scrub unproven, low ceiling big, than forget about it.

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The problem with citing his current salary is that you are also saying that it's going to take him 3-4 years to be a regular contributor. So to me that is a moot point. John Lucas III is cheaper and guys like him, Nate Robinson and DJ Augustine have all played above expectations under Thibs.

Physically, he doesn't have a whole lot he can do to get better on defense. He's one of those guys who has succeeded so far because he is very skilled and intelligent. A recent example of this sort of player who had a lot of hype coming in was Jimmer Fredette. No amount of weight either gains or looses is going to make them fast enough, long enough or tall enough to cover their physical deficiencies (relative to the NBA).

No way are we getting Noel or Okafor straight up for Tyus. This very well could be the height of his value though. Once he racks up 10 DNPs "Coach's Decision," it's not going to matter what he is capable of.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. Certainly we can agree to disagree (if not debate merits).

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Originally Posted by LesGrossman

Wolves should go sign RJ Hunter. Like right now....

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And Mitch McGary

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Originally Posted by LesGrossman

Wolves should go sign RJ Hunter. Like right now....

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That would seem to make a bunch of sense... Would be a good project at the end of the bench and fill need.

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And Mitch McGary

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Liked him coming out of college but he has been a headache and has had injury issues. Don't see him coming our way.

Kind of thought that the PG situation would get settled as in Trading Tyus but there is a lot of season and players out there that can be had so am guessing the Wolves want to much .....

Play Jordan Hill. Guy was just as productive as his Indiana teammate Ian Mahinmi who got $16 mill per year. I understand Ian got the money, cause a premium is spent on shot blockers, which Jordan is not, but Jordan could provide some much needed toughness to the frontcourt.

Sounds like the Wolves have all but put ink on paper for a Gorgui Dieng extension. Basic terms are 4 years / $64 million ($16M per). Seems fairly reasonable, right?

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Originally Posted by topdog

Sounds like the Wolves have all but put ink on paper for a Gorgui Dieng extension. Basic terms are 4 years / $64 million ($16M per). Seems fairly reasonable, right?

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I think it is but have always kind of liked dieng. I was hoping we would resign him this off season while also trying for a high level fa first but oh well.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I think it is but have always kind of liked dieng. I was hoping we would resign him this off season while also trying for a high level fa first but oh well.

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Looks like there still should be plenty of money:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota_timberwolves/

Remember, the Wolves are still paying KG and Kevin Martin ($11.3M); I haven't heard about Payne's 4th year option being picked up ($3M); Rush's deal ends ($3.5M); Hill's is a team option ($4M); and while young players' contracts increase a bit, some of the veteran contracts decrease.

That, and the Wolves currently sit below the salary cap "floor".

we are looking great for future flexibility.

The Dieng signing is fine. He would have gotten more if he hit RFA, for sure.

Guys, Mosgov essentially got paid what we just gave Dieng. And he sucks.

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

we are looking great for future flexibility.

The Dieng signing is fine. He would have gotten more if he hit RFA, for sure.

Guys, Mosgov essentially got paid what we just gave Dieng. And he sucks.

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Agreed. He is a good post player; I just wish he played with more fire. I was a little surprised Bazz didn't sign. I guessing he is gone by the trade deadline.

Rubio is out... It will be interesting to see how Dunn responds. He has been ok so far in limited action. Tyus will also get a chance to step up... hopefully he keeps taking steps forward.

Dunn has looked good defensively. offensively, he has a ways to go. I wonder if Lucas gets burn over Tyus..

I think Dieng price is reasonable, but I'm not sure if he fits us long term. We already have Towns/Aldrich(Aldritch?) at center, and I'm not sure if I want Dieng as a starting PF. Would rather throw money at Millsap this summer.

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Originally Posted by Aleksandar

I think Dieng price is reasonable, but I'm not sure if he fits us long term. We already have Towns/Aldrich(Aldritch?) at center, and I'm not sure if I want Dieng as a starting PF. Would rather throw money at Millsap this summer.

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I think that Dieng is a long-term piece as a PF/C. Aldrich is big but limited as many other potential backups likely would be. Gorgui has that nice elbow jumper (and pump-fake) and likely will have a decent 3pt shot at some point in addition to his shot-blocking.

That said, I would like to see the Wolves pursue a starting-caliber PF. Preferably though, someone younger.

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Originally Posted by topdog

I think that Dieng is a long-term piece as a PF/C. Aldrich is big but limited as many other potential backups likely would be. Gorgui has that nice elbow jumper (and pump-fake) and likely will have a decent 3pt shot at some point in addition to his shot-blocking.

That said, I would like to see the Wolves pursue a starting-caliber PF. Preferably though, someone younger.

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Dieng just got paid to be our starting 4. We can't afford another PF salary like that and pay Lavine, Wiggins and Towns when their contracts are up. Quality role players will be the target now... players like Nick Colison. Aldrich and Rush were the first of those type of players that we added. The only way we fit another big salary under the cap would be moving Rubio. He may get hurt a lot and he can't shoot but we would be hard pressed to recoup his true value in a trade.

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Originally Posted by LesGrossman

Dieng just got paid to be our starting 4. We can't afford another PF salary like that and pay Lavine, Wiggins and Towns when their contracts are up. Quality role players will be the target now... players like Nick Colison. Aldrich and Rush were the first of those type of players that we added. The only way we fit another big salary under the cap would be moving Rubio. He may get hurt a lot and he can't shoot but we would be hard pressed to recoup his true value in a trade.

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sure we can afford it. Remember, we still have plenty of deals coming off over the next 3 years. Pek, KG, Rubio, etc. We have huge amounts of cap space in the summers of 2018, and 2019, even if you factor in signing our 3 young players over the course of 2-3 years.

We are sitting pretty. Dieng's deal isn't killer, and it's easily tradeable 2 years from now as well.