After 5 Years Is Ross Atkins the 2nd Best GM in Blue Jays History?

-First GM in Blue Jays history to get the team to the post season in 5 years
-Top 10 farm for 3 years running
-Broke the Boras boycott
-Signed an ace for less than ace money
-Paved the way for increasing minor league salaries

He also had the 19th highest team payroll (54.5 mil) which included 14 million being paid to Tulo. He was technically the 2nd highest paid player on the team this season. The team is still on the rise with TONS of money to spend and loads of young talent in the farm system. I think it's very easy to say that Atkins is 2nd only to Gillick...for now.

I like Atkins. He has taken the long view. Maybe we should too before we make proclamations like this. Lot of work to do to turn this into perennial contender.

He’s still below Riccardi for me. So he’s 4th if I’m being generous.
Maybe one day.

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Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

-First GM in Blue Jays history to get the team to the post season in 5 years
-Top 10 farm for 3 years running
-Broke the Boras boycott
-Signed an ace for less than ace money
-Paved the way for increasing minor league salaries

He also had the 19th highest team payroll (54.5 mil) which included 14 million being paid to Tulo. He was technically the 2nd highest paid player on the team this season. The team is still on the rise with TONS of money to spend and loads of young talent in the farm system. I think it's very easy to say that Atkins is 2nd only to Gillick...for now.

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Your top point doesn’t really stand up since Ricardo would have had 6 post season appearances in today’s world.

Points 2, 3 and 4 mean nothing without results.

Number 5 is awesome.

But, how many GMs have we had? 5-6? With only one two having some real success? The bar isn’t really that high. Hard to put him in the top based off of this season. He’s on the cusp of moving ahead of AA, but just not yet.

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Originally Posted by pebloemer

I like Atkins. He has taken the long view. Maybe we should too before we make proclamations like this. Lot of work to do to turn this into perennial contender.

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Oh for sure but when is the last time the Jays have been positioned this well moving forward? AA gutted the farm twice while taking on massive contracts (Reyes, Beuhrle and Tulo) while JP just dished out a ridiculous amount of money in one off-season (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Molina). Atkins is the polar opposite and the only big money contract he has so far is our ace. He does have a lot of work to do moving forward but this teams window hasn't even opened yet. Plenty to be excited about.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

Your top point doesn’t really stand up since Ricardo would have had 6 post season appearances in today’s world.

Points 2, 3 and 4 mean nothing without results.

Number 5 is awesome.

But, how many GMs have we had? 5-6? With only one two having some real success? The bar isn’t really that high. Hard to put him in the top based off of this season. He’s on the cusp of moving ahead of AA, but just not yet.

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The bar isn't high at all. He's already passed AA in my books. AA bought playoff baseball but did it with a team that had no longevity. Imagine if he stuck around and signed Price like he said he wanted to. He probably would've paid Bautista too. This team isn't even fully built yet and it's already full of promise.

Breaking the Boras boycott has already been huge. If he didn't do that then there'd be no Ryu or Martin. In order to get top level talent you need to work with Boras and in 1 year of doing so he already got an ace and a top draft pick.

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Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

Oh for sure but when is the last time the Jays have been positioned this well moving forward? AA gutted the farm twice while taking on massive contracts (Reyes, Beuhrle and Tulo) while JP just dished out a ridiculous amount of money in one off-season (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Molina). Atkins is the polar opposite and the only big money contract he has so far is our ace. He does have a lot of work to do moving forward but this teams window hasn't even opened yet. Plenty to be excited about.

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There is definitely plenty to be excited for. I agree with that. Evaluating the body of work by a GM is best done when he has completed what he came to do, or parts ways with the organization. I don't think he is close to either yet. But I love the current direction.

Probably Ricardi if you talking first 5 years.

He has money and assets this off-season. Let’s see what happens

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Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

-First GM in Blue Jays history to get the team to the post season in 5 years
-Top 10 farm for 3 years running
-Broke the Boras boycott
-Signed an ace for less than ace money
-Paved the way for increasing minor league salaries

He also had the 19th highest team payroll (54.5 mil) which included 14 million being paid to Tulo. He was technically the 2nd highest paid player on the team this season. The team is still on the rise with TONS of money to spend and loads of young talent in the farm system. I think it's very easy to say that Atkins is 2nd only to Gillick...for now.

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I think we can easily say that Atkins is the second best GM in Jays history. Outside of Gillick, none of our other GM's ever had the club positioned the way we are today. Ricciradi, Ash, and all except AA never got us to the playoffs, and AA only once. Atkins has done it twice and has a great core going forward.

^
That's very circumstantial though. Ricardi woulda made the playoffs 6 out of 8 times I think if he had 8 team playoffs. And that was when Yankees and Red Sox were dominating.

Atkins has the opportunity to move into the second spot if we win the division next year.

I think it goes without saying that Gillick is pretty much untouchable.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

I think we can easily say that Atkins is the second best GM in Jays history. Outside of Gillick, none of our other GM's ever had the club positioned the way we are today. Ricciradi, Ash, and all except AA never got us to the playoffs, and AA only once. Atkins has done it twice and has a great core going forward.

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Sasky knows what’s up.

Can't evaluate him properly until her leaves or wins a WS, or at the least an AL Championship.

If I were going to rate him now he might be in 2nd, but if he were to trade our team for crap or sign horrible deals that sinks us for years to come, he'd drop to 3, 4, 5 or Ash level.

My list as of now, Gilick, (2.1)Atkins, (2.2)Anthopolous, (2.3)Ricciardi, (5)Ash, (6)Bavasi and (7)LaCava.

Again, I can't finalize his spot because it can be interchanged between AA and JP, until he leaves.

Atkins has a .483 winning PCT. Yea.

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Originally Posted by hanton

Atkins has a .483 winning PCT. Yea.

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What's Cashman's winning percentage?

I wouldn't rate him as a top GM (based on his winning percentage) with the cash assets he's able to throw out yearly... he's been mediocre at best.

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Originally Posted by Chaotic98

What's Cashman's winning percentage?

I wouldn't rate him as a top GM (based on his winning percentage) with the cash assets he's able to throw out yearly... he's been mediocre at best.

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fine what criteria are you using to rate him as the 2nd best GM in Blue Jays history? Cashman is .588

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Originally Posted by hanton

fine what criteria are you using to rate him as the 2nd best GM in Blue Jays history? Cashman is .588

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When was Cashman the Jays GM working with a limited payroll?

Atkins took an aging team who the fans expected to contend, patchworked into a play-off team in 2016, then gutted it and rebuilt it with smart drafting and development, smart trades, and look at where we are now. We're in a great position moving into 2021 and beyond.

He brought us 2 play-off appearances in 5 years. Tell me who, outside of Gillick, did a better job and how you justify your assessment.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

When was Cashman the Jays GM working with a limited payroll?

Atkins took an aging team who the fans expected to contend, patchworked into a play-off team in 2016, then gutted it and rebuilt it with smart drafting and development, smart trades, and look at where we are now. We're in a great position moving into 2021 and beyond.

He brought us 2 play-off appearances in 5 years. Tell me who, outside of Gillick, did a better job and how you justify your assessment.

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Justify what? it's not my thread

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Originally Posted by hanton

Atkins has a .483 winning PCT. Yea.

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Really. that's your argument. Atkins did a complete teardown, and rebuild in less than 3 years, we're now in a competitive situation, with tons of payroll flexibility, (the ghosts of AA's payroll), and we've graduated high potential players to the MLB roster.

If we lose 95 games next year and all of our kids struggle, you might have an argument, but to use winning percentage after Atkins just completed a rebuild seems like a fools errand.

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Originally Posted by hanton

fine what criteria are you using to rate him as the 2nd best GM in Blue Jays history? Cashman is .588

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Keep in mind the bar isn't set high in terms of great GMs we have had. If we rated them as great, then it's just Gillick. I'm not sure Philly fans will feel the same way about his time there.

In terms of my criteria for a Blue Jays' GM, let me first say I look at the MLB and Jays like a European soccer league (EPL for example) until a real league wide salary cap is implemented. The Jays are traditionally a mid tier level team, minus the late 80s and early 90s where they out spent and beat most.

For me, for a Jays GM to be successful he(she) needs to A) develop home grown young talent (from drafts or trades) B) Have good asset management: in trades and team payroll C) long term success: both in team wins and in asset management, and D) have some luck.

Our team success isn't just dependent on how good our roster is, but how bad/unfortunate the Yankees/Red Sox are with injuries and bad contracts for our success in the AL East based on their traditional $200 million payrolls. Not to mention Tampa, seems to excel yearly at my aforementioned criteria. Therefore, our GMs needs to be great at A and B above to see winning successes.

JP did well to draft and develop talent, was mediocre in trades, terrible in acquiring FAs. AA was boom or bust in trades, terrible at developing homegrown talent, he signed a few top FAs, but to contracts that didn't age well, and had a lot of luck in how JB and EE turned their careers around and mediocre Boston, Yankee and Tampa teams. Let's not forget, based on the age of that 2015 team, the poorly aging contracts/FA contracts and the barren farm system, that team was built as a boom or bust, not as a dynasty for multiple years of success.

With Atkins, thus far he has developed talent well, has managed his assets in trades and fiscally well. I still don't like Grich's deal, but it aged better this year and I can live with Roark's 2 year deal. We can argue about the timing of his JD deal, but I think that has more to do with Rogers trying to fool season ticket holders than him not wanting to deal JD earlier, then his injury.

He has made the playoffs twice, by lucking out with 8 teams this year. He has yet to make a big trade for a big name player, but Ryu is a bigger FA signing we have had since the days of Gillick (or Ash if we think about a then washed up non PED Clemens).

Lastly, he has potentially set up this team for long term success unless he mismanages his assets. Again his tenure cannot be truly evaluated until he leaves to remove bias from it, *unless he wins a championship.

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Originally Posted by hanton

Justify what? it's not my thread

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Aren't you using the .483 winning % to suggest Atkins isn't a good GM? I'd like to see you justify your opinion, unless you can't.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

Aren't you using the .483 winning % to suggest Atkins isn't a good GM? I'd like to see you justify your opinion, unless you can't.

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You must be new here, he can't.

He'll post stuff like "I don't need to defend anything, it's not my thread", but yet... He'll still POST in the GD thread no problem.

Different topic, same ********.

Back on topic, this is a very tough question. Maybe I misremember but why is Ricciardi getting so much love? I don't remember that era being very good at all.... To me it's between AA and Atkins, and I'm not even that big of a fan of AA but he did a lot of good work. He had a DD like approach that didn't pan out and outside the Dickey trade (which was awful), a lot of his deals were made with going for it in mind, which I can certainly respect. He did clear out the cupboards to an extent but mostly kept his top specs and his biggest flaw was he couldn't draft. And if he did hit on the draft, they went unsigned and stared for another team instead (Nola comes to mind but I know there's more). AA is the type of guy who's going to get so much better as he gets older with more experience. Look at the Braves now, (though he inherited that team and seems like he still can't draft) that's a team that he'll command for the next decade. Unfortunately here, so many wasted first round picks (Deck McGuire lol) but I did like his aggressive trade mindset and trying to get the team over the hump. He's smart and I still would have done that Tulo trade, at the time it looked so good even if it completely backfired. Obviously it's nice to have 20/20 hindsight but way too many teams do nothing and just expect to compete, Alex isn't one of those GMs.

Going back to the original question (leave me alone it's early), is Atkins the second best GM? I think it's impossible to say for another few years yet but he absolutely has potential to be. Bichette, Pearson etc all look like stars, he broke through with a Boras client and even got him for a very reasonable salary. The farm is pretty stacked as well, lots of great draft picks and certainly could see a few players from there making an impact still. Prospects they have (like Austin Martin) is just gravy on top and while he fell into their laps, they didn't try to out smart themselves and go another direction or be too cute cause they "wanted a pitcher" or some other nonsense. Right now, I'd give a slight edge to AA as the second best GM with this year or next having the potential to really push Atkins over the top. He's come a long way.... fans really mistreated him, were downright incompetent and impatient, I was always rooting for the guy to turn the team around and I'm glad he had the time to show that he could. We are in very good shape but still young and hard to know exactly how good guys like Hernandez and Vlad really are. I think we'll be fine but that's why they play the games...

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Originally Posted by hanton

Atkins has a .483 winning PCT. Yea.

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What about just this season? You are aware that the team is rebuilding, right?

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Originally Posted by Chaotic98

Can't evaluate him properly until her leaves or wins a WS, or at the least an AL Championship.

If I were going to rate him now he might be in 2nd, but if he were to trade our team for crap or sign horrible deals that sinks us for years to come, he'd drop to 3, 4, 5 or Ash level.

My list as of now, Gilick, (2.1)Atkins, (2.2)Anthopolous, (2.3)Ricciardi, (5)Ash, (6)Bavasi and (7)LaCava.

Again, I can't finalize his spot because it can be interchanged between AA and JP, until he leaves.

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That's fair. There is still room for a lot to go wrong but I have faith that won't happen. AA was some sort of ninja who made these huge deals out of nowhere. Atkins literally tells you what the plan is and then plays it out in the most conservative way possible.

Obviously a time will come where he's going to have to take a risk (100+ million dollar contracts to hand out or trading a top 5 prospect) but so far he's managed to build a solid foundation without having to do either of the above.

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Originally Posted by StayOnBoard

You must be new here, he can't.

He'll post stuff like "I don't need to defend anything, it's not my thread", but yet... He'll still POST in the GD thread no problem.

Different topic, same ********.

Back on topic, this is a very tough question. Maybe I misremember but why is Ricciardi getting so much love? I don't remember that era being very good at all.... To me it's between AA and Atkins, and I'm not even that big of a fan of AA but he did a lot of good work. He had a DD like approach that didn't pan out and outside the Dickey trade (which was awful), a lot of his deals were made with going for it in mind, which I can certainly respect. He did clear out the cupboards to an extent but mostly kept his top specs and his biggest flaw was he couldn't draft. And if he did hit on the draft, they went unsigned and stared for another team instead (Nola comes to mind but I know there's more). AA is the type of guy who's going to get so much better as he gets older with more experience. Look at the Braves now, (though he inherited that team and seems like he still can't draft) that's a team that he'll command for the next decade. Unfortunately here, so many wasted first round picks (Deck McGuire lol) but I did like his aggressive trade mindset and trying to get the team over the hump. He's smart and I still would have done that Tulo trade, at the time it looked so good even if it completely backfired. Obviously it's nice to have 20/20 hindsight but way too many teams do nothing and just expect to compete, Alex isn't one of those GMs.

Going back to the original question (leave me alone it's early), is Atkins the second best GM? I think it's impossible to say for another few years yet but he absolutely has potential to be. Bichette, Pearson etc all look like stars, he broke through with a Boras client and even got him for a very reasonable salary. The farm is pretty stacked as well, lots of great draft picks and certainly could see a few players from there making an impact still. Prospects they have (like Austin Martin) is just gravy on top and while he fell into their laps, they didn't try to out smart themselves and go another direction or be too cute cause they "wanted a pitcher" or some other nonsense. Right now, I'd give a slight edge to AA as the second best GM with this year or next having the potential to really push Atkins over the top. He's come a long way.... fans really mistreated him, were downright incompetent and impatient, I was always rooting for the guy to turn the team around and I'm glad he had the time to show that he could. We are in very good shape but still young and hard to know exactly how good guys like Hernandez and Vlad really are. I think we'll be fine but that's why they play the games...

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hanton just gets upset whenever Atkins gets praise. Be careful what you say to him though. He reported me for calling him a child once :laugh:

I think people were just pointing out that if it were a 16 team post season then JP would've made it a few times. AA definitely made trades with going for it in mind and it was exciting as hell. Had that 2015 team won the WS then all would be forgiven but the only problem is they didn't. His style was reckless and completely unsustainable unless you keep doing it over and over. Sold the farm in 2012, took on massive deals (Beuhrle and Reyes), got a supposed Cy Young winner then you fast forward to 2015 where again he sold the farm, took on massive deals while also handing out massive deals this time as well. I really mean it when I say this, if he took that 5 year deal in 2015 the team would be in absolute shambles right now. AA left a hero before he could die a villain.

I understand your logic in still having AA as second, but I still disagree lol. AA got us to the post season and left us with a roster of old guys. Atkins just got us to the post season and the roster is full of guys who are under 25. Austin Martin is also a Boras client btw. Which 100% means that if AA were still GM he wouldn't have drafted him because of the Boras boycott. I just have the utmost confidence in this team moving forward. Atkins literally started from the ground up and so far it's working out incredibly well. We still do have to see how it all pans out though.

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Originally Posted by hanton

Justify what? it's not my thread

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Good ol' hanton. Always runs away when he gets pressed.

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Originally Posted by StayOnBoard

You must be new here, he can't.

He'll post stuff like "I don't need to defend anything, it's not my thread", but yet... He'll still POST in the GD thread no problem.

Different topic, same ********.

Back on topic, this is a very tough question. Maybe I misremember but why is Ricciardi getting so much love? I don't remember that era being very good at all.... To me it's between AA and Atkins, and I'm not even that big of a fan of AA but he did a lot of good work. He had a DD like approach that didn't pan out and outside the Dickey trade (which was awful), a lot of his deals were made with going for it in mind, which I can certainly respect. He did clear out the cupboards to an extent but mostly kept his top specs and his biggest flaw was he couldn't draft. And if he did hit on the draft, they went unsigned and stared for another team instead (Nola comes to mind but I know there's more). AA is the type of guy who's going to get so much better as he gets older with more experience. Look at the Braves now, (though he inherited that team and seems like he still can't draft) that's a team that he'll command for the next decade. Unfortunately here, so many wasted first round picks (Deck McGuire lol) but I did like his aggressive trade mindset and trying to get the team over the hump. He's smart and I still would have done that Tulo trade, at the time it looked so good even if it completely backfired. Obviously it's nice to have 20/20 hindsight but way too many teams do nothing and just expect to compete, Alex isn't one of those GMs.

Going back to the original question (leave me alone it's early), is Atkins the second best GM? I think it's impossible to say for another few years yet but he absolutely has potential to be. Bichette, Pearson etc all look like stars, he broke through with a Boras client and even got him for a very reasonable salary. The farm is pretty stacked as well, lots of great draft picks and certainly could see a few players from there making an impact still. Prospects they have (like Austin Martin) is just gravy on top and while he fell into their laps, they didn't try to out smart themselves and go another direction or be too cute cause they "wanted a pitcher" or some other nonsense. Right now, I'd give a slight edge to AA as the second best GM with this year or next having the potential to really push Atkins over the top. He's come a long way.... fans really mistreated him, were downright incompetent and impatient, I was always rooting for the guy to turn the team around and I'm glad he had the time to show that he could. We are in very good shape but still young and hard to know exactly how good guys like Hernandez and Vlad really are. I think we'll be fine but that's why they play the games...

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Really good post.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

When was Cashman the Jays GM working with a limited payroll?

Atkins took an aging team who the fans expected to contend, patchworked into a play-off team in 2016, then gutted it and rebuilt it with smart drafting and development, smart trades, and look at where we are now. We're in a great position moving into 2021 and beyond.

He brought us 2 play-off appearances in 5 years. Tell me who, outside of Gillick, did a better job and how you justify your assessment.

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Atkins brought us the 2020 play-off appearance but only after the expanded format due to the 60 game shortened season, there's a good chance we don't make the post season otherwise. 2016 was AA's team.

He inhereted a WS contender but Atkins had still make moves to make sure we made the 2016 playoffs.

Wasn't the Boras boycott by Beeston as opposed to AA?

Edit: Braves have signed a few Boras clients since AA took over so I doubt it would have hindered drafting Martin.

Yea you have to adjust somewhat for the expanded playoffs. It's obviously an accomplishment but it can't be ignored the accomplishment is partly due to the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Chaotic98

Keep in mind the bar isn't set high in terms of great GMs we have had. If we rated them as great, then it's just Gillick. I'm not sure Philly fans will feel the same way about his time there.

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I think that's what probably gets lost in the conversation.

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In terms of my criteria for a Blue Jays' GM, let me first say I look at the MLB and Jays like a European soccer league (EPL for example) until a real league wide salary cap is implemented. The Jays are traditionally a mid tier level team, minus the late 80s and early 90s where they out spent and beat most.

For me, for a Jays GM to be successful he(she) needs to A) develop home grown young talent (from drafts or trades) B) Have good asset management: in trades and team payroll C) long term success: both in team wins and in asset management, and D) have some luck.

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That's GM'ing 101 with the only difference being the parameters around where each GM is working with - payroll constraints, prospects, ALE factor...etc. Glad you mentioned wins because somehow that gets overlooked.

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Our team success isn't just dependent on how good our roster is, but how bad/unfortunate the Yankees/Red Sox are with injuries and bad contracts for our success in the AL East based on their traditional $200 million payrolls. Not to mention Tampa, seems to excel yearly at my aforementioned criteria. Therefore, our GMs needs to be great at A and B above to see winning successes.

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be the The Rays

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JP did well to draft and develop talent, was mediocre in trades, terrible in acquiring FAs. AA was boom or bust in trades, terrible at developing homegrown talent, he signed a few top FAs, but to contracts that didn't age well, and had a lot of luck in how JB and EE turned their careers around and mediocre Boston, Yankee and Tampa teams. Let's not forget, based on the age of that 2015 team, the poorly aging contracts/FA contracts and the barren farm system, that team was built as a boom or bust, not as a dynasty for multiple years of success.

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Did you see the chart I posted a few days ago which shows the contribution based on WAR of home grown vs non home grown players. The Dodgers stood out as having the highest WAR, all other teams got most of their WAR from non homegrown talent. The Padres in particular stood out, they had the lowest WAR in that chart. I don't think anyone expected that given how bad that team has been. I think GM's need to be adept at trading - more so than drafting because that is truly hit or miss. We don't want to be the Padres, they are on their 3rd re-build and ended up trading everyone away.

Atkins showed a hint of that trading skill when he acquired Walker and Ray at the TDL, however I don't know if that was Atkins working the phones or more the other teams dumping players. I think it was more dumping.

I'm not going to debate you on the luck thing with JB and EE because that's another conversation that requires a bit of understanding on the inner workings of a team. In general all players are self made. There's nearly zero development at the major league level, more in the minors but still it's on the player.

And I don't see much talk about their HBD. What happened to that? I'm really questioning it's effectiveness: Vlady's conditioning, Kirks body, Pearson and Romano's injuries....etc

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With Atkins, thus far he has developed talent well, has managed his assets in trades and fiscally well. I still don't like Grich's deal, but it aged better this year and I can live with Roark's 2 year deal. We can argue about the timing of his JD deal, but I think that has more to do with Rogers trying to fool season ticket holders than him not wanting to deal JD earlier, then his injury.

He has made the playoffs twice, by lucking out with 8 teams this year. He has yet to make a big trade for a big name player, but Ryu is a bigger FA signing we have had since the days of Gillick (or Ash if we think about a then washed up non PED Clemens).

Lastly, he has potentially set up this team for long term success unless he mismanages his assets. Again his tenure cannot be truly evaluated until he leaves to remove bias from it, *unless he wins a championship.

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Atkins has set-up the team very well there's no denying that but I want to see more and I agree it's way to early to offer up an assessment.

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Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

What about just this season? You are aware that the team is rebuilding, right?

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Yes and you do realize it's not a linear path right? see injuries and non performance, it's a big thing that Atkins has to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

Aren't you using the .483 winning % to suggest Atkins isn't a good GM? I'd like to see you justify your opinion, unless you can't.

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I think it's worth noting.

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

He inhereted a WS contender but Atkins had still make moves to make sure we made the 2016 playoffs.

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Correct. IIRC 5 all stars on that team

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

Yea you have to adjust somewhat for the expanded playoffs. It's obviously an accomplishment but it can't be ignored the accomplishment is partly due to the circumstances.

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I agree. But it’s not like it was his decision to expand the playoffs. What he does deserve credit for is recognizing that there was an opportunity to strike and taking that opportunity. Too many times in Toronto we have seen teams close and not make a move at the right time to make a push.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

I agree. But it’s not like it was his decision to expand the playoffs. What he does deserve credit for is recognizing that there was an opportunity to strike and taking that opportunity. Too many times in Toronto we have seen teams close and not make a move at the right time to make a push.

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I’m not saying he doesnt deserve credit, but something you have to factor in when looking as a whole

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

He inhereted a WS contender but Atkins had still make moves to make sure we made the 2016 playoffs.

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Because of the offseason he orchestrated.

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Originally Posted by hanton

Yes and you do realize it's not a linear path right? see injuries and non performance, it's a big thing that Atkins has to deal with.

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It's been a pretty linear path. The team literally got worse every year from 2016-2019 as Atkins was waiting for AA's sloppy seconds to phase out while bringing up the youth.