COVID-19 Response: An issue that shouldn't be at all political....yet here we are

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Indeed, a number of recent polls by Axios, Civiqs, NBC News/Wall Street Journal, Pew, Reuters, and Quinnipiac University have all confirmed that concern about COVID-19 is greater among self-identified Democrats than Republicans (this summary suggests that, on average, 65 percent of Democrats are either somewhat or very concerned about catching the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus compared to only 38 percent of Republicans), while Republicans are much more likely to believe that social distancing is an unnecessary overreaction.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psy...-beliefs%3famp

The title of this thread came to me prior to actually finding this article. Just something I've been noticing more and more lately.

Regardless this could be used as a general thread for COVID-19/coronavirus discussion as well.

People are in a culture war and we don;t know how to stop... Hell There's a chance for a global ceasefire to actual war and we can't listen to each other with out calling people stupid.

Ya know people are scared... scared of dieing. Scared of going broke. scared of losing control. And instead of shutting the **** up and going you know what it sucks to deal with that. Instead of processing all these god damn feelings... It's just easier to say you are ****ing stupid because Trump/ libtards.

I don’t think that this split is entirely political. Republicans and democrats are widely believed to see the world differently in a way that would impact their view of the crisis.

Republicans tend to be less likely to trust anything out of the government including scientific data. The tend to look for solutions by the individual and not the collective. Democrats are more likely to accept government information especially scientific information and solutions in group actions.

I’m not saying there isn’t a strong political component to the division, just that there is also likely personality reasons for how we see the crisis.

I think republicans were sold a story that this virus was no big ****ing deal by their president and Fox News and other conservative outlets, so that’s what they were fed and therefore that’s their reality.

Now these outlets are telling them that is time to open the country and well here they go with that.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

I don’t think that this split is entirely political. Republicans and democrats are widely believed to see the world differently in a way that would impact their view of the crisis.

Republicans tend to be less likely to trust anything out of the government including scientific data. The tend to look for solutions by the individual and not the collective. Democrats are more likely to accept government information especially scientific information and solutions in group actions.

I’m not saying there isn’t a strong political component to the division, just that there is also likely personality reasons for how we see the crisis.

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Absolutely but you also can't deny the correlation. Yes, I'm aware you didn't but still.

In case people weren't aware of the protesting in Michigan the other day:

https://youtu.be/1t-GzuZukQs

WI Senator slays China

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/201.../proposals/sr7

When I read the title I thought it was going to be about the two parties trying to maneuver this whole thing to a political advantage (they are ABSOLUTELY trying to do that, both of them, if you don't think so you are not paying attention or your blinders are in the way).

I think Republicans tend to be older and thus more stubborn. Dems are more likely to be more connected so they get bombarded with more of this **** on a moment to moment basis.

I don't think it's inherent in the ideology so much as they way they live their lives that has resulted in that polls differences.

It's just the sad state of the culture. No leadership. No direction. No responsibility. No trust. Too many individuals. Blame someone else. Rinse. Repeat.

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Originally Posted by Sick Of It All

I think republicans were sold a story that this virus was no big ****ing deal by their president and Fox News and other conservative outlets, so that’s what they were fed and therefore that’s their reality.

Now these outlets are telling them that is time to open the country and well here they go with that.

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Yeah that’s exactly it! Damn Fox News! I’ve always said that shutting the economy down is stupid. That’s going to potentially cause more harm than the virus itself will. Especially if these numbers are true where the mortality rate could be closer to the flu than the 1-2% like first projected.

People have lost their jobs. People don’t have any money. Small businesses are closing daily. Over 50% of restaurants in WI will likely be shutting down for good according to the WI restaurant association. Depression is likely a lot higher resulting in more suicide cases. Domestic abuse issues are higher now and kids/seniors are being forced out of a lot of stuff. Prom, graduation, athletes missing their last year.

They should have protected the most vulnerable without shutting down the entire country.


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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

In case people weren't aware of the protesting in Michigan the other day:

https://youtu.be/1t-GzuZukQs

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Another protest happened in North Carolina. A similar protest in Maryland is occurring tomorrow, and in Pennsylvania on Monday, where they are debating a bill from their house that would reopen non-essential businesses.

People have moved from support of the lockdown to needing to get back to work and wanting to avoid being ruined financially. I completely understand it.

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Originally Posted by statquo

It's just the sad state of the culture. No leadership. No direction. No responsibility. No trust. Too many individuals. Blame someone else. Rinse. Repeat.

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Doesn't help that the president is letting the states handle all of this. There is absolutely no direction from the top leading this, and even if we had a modicum of that, it would help. Instead, we have what we have, and the president abdicating responsibility to the states, and the governors saying that the federal government will have no say when they will reopen, and they will reopen when ready.

https://twitter.com/jonathanmetzl/st...526912513?s=21

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Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz

Another protest happened in North Carolina. A similar protest in Maryland is occurring tomorrow, and in Pennsylvania on Monday, where they are debating a bill from their house that would reopen non-essential businesses.

People have moved from support of the lockdown to needing to get back to work and wanting to avoid being ruined financially. I completely understand it.

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This country isn’t meant to be shut down. People want to work, run their business, go to ballgames, movies etc. People are struggling financially and we have two parties who can’t even pass a simple bill to add more money into the small business loan. I know people who got permanently laid off. He’s 61 and was 3 years away from retirement. Going to be hard for him to find a good paying job now.

There’s gotta be a way to open up counties that haven’t been hit hard yet still protect the most vulnerable. Things like nursing homes and keep fans out of stadiums yet until this thing is pretty much gone.

There’s no need though to shut the entire country down, especially when a lot of states have very few cases.


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Originally Posted by statquo

It's just the sad state of the culture. No leadership. No direction. No responsibility. No trust. Too many individuals. Blame someone else. Rinse. Repeat.

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This


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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Yeah that’s exactly it! Damn Fox News! I’ve always said that shutting the economy down is stupid. That’s going to potentially cause more harm than the virus itself will. Especially if these numbers are true where the mortality rate could be closer to the flu than the 1-2% like first projected.

People have lost their jobs. People don’t have any money. Small businesses are closing daily. Over 50% of restaurants in WI will likely be shutting down for good according to the WI restaurant association. Depression is likely a lot higher resulting in more suicide cases. Domestic abuse issues are higher now and kids/seniors are being forced out of a lot of stuff. Prom, graduation, athletes missing their last year.

They should have protected the most vulnerable without shutting down the entire country.


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Wait, so the economy is worth more than the lives of thousands and thousands of our citizens? This is nothing like the flu. Have you had anyone in your life affected by this? I have and I don’t wish it upon anyone. Imagine having someone you love go into the hospital to be checked and you never get to see that person again. Can’t wait for you or FNK or Sluggo try to tell me you all coincidentally disagree.


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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

This country isn’t meant to be shut down. People want to work, run their business, go to ballgames, movies etc. People are struggling financially and we have two parties who can’t even pass a simple bill to add more money into the small business loan. I know people who got permanently laid off. He’s 61 and was 3 years away from retirement. Going to be hard for him to find a good paying job now.

There’s gotta be a way to open up counties that haven’t been hit hard yet still protect the most vulnerable. Things like nursing homes and keep fans out of stadiums yet until this thing is pretty much gone.

There’s no need though to shut the entire country down, especially when a lot of states have very few cases.


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What people want and what people need aren't generally one and the same. This is financially tough on most everyone but it's not something we can't bounce back from. Give me another half year or year of this **** if that's what it takes; I'm not trippin'.

I'd rather take the measured and safe approach than just say "**** it" and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez

Wait, so the economy is worth more than the lives of thousands and thousands of our citizens? This is nothing like the flu. Have you had anyone in your life affected by this? I have and I don’t wish it upon anyone. Imagine having someone you love go into the hospital to be checked and you never get to see that person again. Can’t wait for you or FNK or Sluggo try to tell me you all coincidentally disagree.


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He’s pro-life bro.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

What people want and what people need aren't generally one and the same. This is financially tough on most everyone but it's not something we can't bounce back from. Give me another half year or year of this **** if that's what it takes; I'm not trippin'.

I'd rather take the measured and safe approach than just say "**** it" and hope for the best.

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Please tell me where I said “**** it” and hope for the best.

There’s ways you can keep the economy open and take precaution against this. Keep the elderly people at home (especially the retired people)

Nursing homes only allow people in if they’ve been tested (15 min rapid testing) or temperatures taken. Allow a time period where they can go to the grocery store. Sometime in the morning.

Protect the most vulnerable while not destroying the economy.

Im not saying open up beaches or have concerts and packed stadiums. But there’s a reasonable approach you can take to protect the elderly and keep people working.


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Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez

Wait, so the economy is worth more than the lives of thousands and thousands of our citizens? This is nothing like the flu. Have you had anyone in your life affected by this? I have and I don’t wish it upon anyone. Imagine having someone you love go into the hospital to be checked and you never get to see that person again. Can’t wait for you or FNK or Sluggo try to tell me you all coincidentally disagree.


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I have not but I can tell you shutting down areas that have like 5 cases the entire time in a wide area is beyond stupid. You can’t shut down entire states with little cases and widespread area with very little population. I’m not saying open everything up but I think there’s more reasonable steps that can be taken other than shutting down everything


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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Please tell me where I said “**** it” and hope for the best.

There’s ways you can keep the economy open and take precaution against this. Keep the elderly people at home (especially the retired people)

Nursing homes only allow people in if they’ve been tested (15 min rapid testing) or temperatures taken. Allow a time period where they can go to the grocery store. Sometime in the morning.

Protect the most vulnerable while not destroying the economy.

Im not saying open up beaches or have concerts and packed stadiums. But there’s a reasonable approach you can take to protect the elderly and keep people working.


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Which is going to blow your mind more: the definition of “asymptomatic”, the fact that grocery stores are not boarded up like a Walking Dead scene (we can excuse this as one of your reliable strawman deflections in retreat), or the fact that the nature of a pandemic is such that the vulnerable you’re pretending to care about here are made more vulnerable by the way you treat those that aren’t?

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

What people want and what people need aren't generally one and the same. This is financially tough on most everyone but it's not something we can't bounce back from. Give me another half year or year of this **** if that's what it takes; I'm not trippin'.

I'd rather take the measured and safe approach than just say "**** it" and hope for the best.

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Please don’t take his word for me wanting to work.


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I know people who were affected by the virus, both by getting sick and as a repercussion of NY shutting down. My neighbor got it, my uncle got it, I had distant relatives die from it, mom’s uncle has it, sisters coworker died from it, and there’s probably more that I haven’t heard of yet.

On the other hand, I’ve been laid off, don’t qualify for a stimulus check, have been blowing through my savings, and have a lot of friends in my age group doing the same. I know essential workers who are getting sick and making less money than those getting unemployment, and I know people who do qualify for unemployment/the stimulus check but got neither and as a result, are also blowing through their savings.

People need money and need to be paid adequately to get by. All of what I’m saying is very true and I bet all of you guys know people on both sides of the spectrum who are affected by this but that doesn’t mean it’s a testament to open up the country, it means the government should be doing more for its citizens to make sure that their quality of life doesn’t dramatically decrease.

It’s easy for people to say that $1200 is enough or that people are selfish for wanting to go back to work/reopen the economy but the people who say that are typically in a position of privilege where they don’t need to worry about these things.


I mean just think about it, people are willing to sacrifice lives just so they can go back to their ****** job because otherwise, they’re going to go broke. That’s some dystopian kind of **** right there.

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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Please tell me where I said “**** it” and hope for the best.

There’s ways you can keep the economy open and take precaution against this. Keep the elderly people at home (especially the retired people)

Nursing homes only allow people in if they’ve been tested (15 min rapid testing) or temperatures taken. Allow a time period where they can go to the grocery store. Sometime in the morning.

Protect the most vulnerable while not destroying the economy.

Im not saying open up beaches or have concerts and packed stadiums. But there’s a reasonable approach you can take to protect the elderly and keep people working.


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According to most people who are qualified to have an opinion we need greater testing and contact tracing abilities to safely do want you are asking for in most areas. If we can do it safely sure but I don’t think we should do it based on you or Trumps instincts


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Originally Posted by Zmaster52

I know people who were affected by the virus, both by getting sick and as a repercussion of NY shutting down. My neighbor got it, my uncle got it, I had distant relatives die from it, mom’s uncle has it, sisters coworker died from it, and there’s probably more that I haven’t heard of yet.

On the other hand, I’ve been laid off, don’t qualify for a stimulus check, have been blowing through my savings, and have a lot of friends in my age group doing the same. I know essential workers who are getting sick and making less money than those getting unemployment, and I know people who do qualify for unemployment/the stimulus check but got neither and as a result, are also blowing through their savings.

People need money and need to be paid adequately to get by. All of what I’m saying is very true and I bet all of you guys know people on both sides of the spectrum who are affected by this but that doesn’t mean it’s a testament to open up the country, it means the government should be doing more for its citizens to make sure that their quality of life doesn’t dramatically decrease.

It’s easy for people to say that $1200 is enough or that people are selfish for wanting to go back to work/reopen the economy but the people who say that are typically in a position of privilege where they don’t need to worry about these things.


I mean just think about it, people are willing to sacrifice lives just so they can go back to their ****** job because otherwise, they’re going to go broke. That’s some dystopian kind of **** right there.

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Sorry for your losses. The virus sucks. It’s destroyed a lot of people’s life like you laid out. I just personally think that there’s ways to open the economy back up while having strict protections in place. I think shutting everything down is going to do more harm in the long run than this virus and this isn’t to undermine it at all.

We know who the most vulnerable people and areas are. We know who it affects the most. Let’s protect them but also understand that less density areas should reopen. There’s many parts of WI for example that literally have less than 5-10 people in the hospital from it. Why should these areas be forced to completely be shut down and have many people lose their business and employment? Obviously it can spread but it’s less likely to spread in cities with less population/density than cities like NYC, Chicago, Detroit.


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Originally Posted by ewing

According to most people who are qualified to have an opinion we need greater testing and contact tracing abilities to safely do want you are asking for in most areas. If we can do it safely sure but I don’t think we should do it based on you or Trumps instincts


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Except that these experts said yesterday that there’s enough testing for states to go into phase one as soon as today...


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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

What people want and what people need aren't generally one and the same. This is financially tough on most everyone but it's not something we can't bounce back from. Give me another half year or year of this **** if that's what it takes; I'm not trippin'.

I'd rather take the measured and safe approach than just say "**** it" and hope for the best.

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Exactly. There’s also huge financial impact when you just ignore the problem and allow for wide swaths of people to just die or get very ill.

Brewers this is nothing like the flu (especially from a death rate perspective). We’re two months in on this virus in the US and it would still be getting exponentially worse without the drastic measures.


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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Sorry for your losses. The virus sucks. It’s destroyed a lot of people’s life like you laid out. I just personally think that there’s ways to open the economy back up while having strict protections in place. I think shutting everything down is going to do more harm in the long run than this virus and this isn’t to undermine it at all.

We know who the most vulnerable people and areas are. We know who it affects the most. Let’s protect them but also understand that less density areas should reopen. There’s many parts of WI for example that literally have less than 5-10 people in the hospital from it. Why should these areas be forced to completely be shut down and have many people lose their business and employment? Obviously it can spread but it’s less likely to spread in cities with less population/density than cities like NYC, Chicago, Detroit.


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That’s the same reactive thinking that allowed this to get out of hand in the first place.

Waiting until you get too many cases and can’t control things is not the way to go.

People should be taken care of. Many other nations are giving people that can’t work because of the shut down things like 80% of their salaries as long as this goes on. Yes it’s expensive, but there are still groups
That are making money. They can help subsidize this short term with temporary higher tax rates.

We aren’t ready yet to combat this thing with a functioning economy.


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Originally Posted by DeW-Star

Exactly. There’s also huge financial impact when you just ignore the problem and allow for wide swaths of people to just die or get very ill.

Brewers this is nothing like the flu (especially from a death rate perspective). We’re two months in on this virus in the US and it would still be getting exponentially worse without the drastic measures.


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While I think some businesses should have been given the chance to remain open and operate within CDC guidelines for handling their business, I'll point to Maryland at least and say that they recommended people stay home early on. Until we got this stay at home order, people were still going out and about on their daily routine. Delaware had to implement the same stay at home order after people came to their beach homes fleeing other stay at home orders. Now we have a state-wide order mandating masks in all open businesses and we aren't four hours in and social media is lighting up about the amount of people who aren't complying.

If we could rely on people to stay at home and use common sense, I doubt that so many businesses would be closed right now. But I'm sure it's the same in other areas- too many people were still out doing their routine and not taking precautions, so they had to shut it down.

When all is said and done, I’m guessing that of the so-called developed countries, the US will end up being the hardest hit by this pandemic — in a number of ways.

I suppose we can only hope that going forward we will have learned something from the experience because I think we all know this will not be the last serious challenge of this nature we will encounter.

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Originally Posted by GasMan

I don’t think that this split is entirely political. .

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I think its political. There are 2 sides to this issue, the virus and the economy. Each political side seems to prioritize differently. Both sides are right. It just depends how we want to move forward as a country.

Essentially what Brewers is saying is true. We need to figure out what protocol to set to allow us to start slowly opening back up. That's the smart way to go about it.

The big question is do we have leadership capable of figuring that protocol out. The answer is a resounding no.

So we're kinda stuck in the middle...

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Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz

Another protest happened in North Carolina. A similar protest in Maryland is occurring tomorrow, and in Pennsylvania on Monday, where they are debating a bill from their house that would reopen non-essential businesses.

People have moved from support of the lockdown to needing to get back to work and wanting to avoid being ruined financially. I completely understand it.

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I got no issue with states being given power to re open, but I hope those states understand how to read a graph.

America didnt and New York paid the price. That should be the last out break in America.

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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Please tell me where I said “**** it” and hope for the best.

There’s ways you can keep the economy open and take precaution against this. Keep the elderly people at home (especially the retired people)

Nursing homes only allow people in if they’ve been tested (15 min rapid testing) or temperatures taken. Allow a time period where they can go to the grocery store. Sometime in the morning.

Protect the most vulnerable while not destroying the economy.

Im not saying open up beaches or have concerts and packed stadiums. But there’s a reasonable approach you can take to protect the elderly and keep people working.


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Yeah, my mom is 62 and has had type 1 diabetes and is working from home solely due to the stay at home order. When that order is lifted she will be forced to expose herself, so have a good time ****ing yourself.

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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

I have not but I can tell you shutting down areas that have like 5 cases the entire time in a wide area is beyond stupid. You can’t shut down entire states with little cases and widespread area with very little population. I’m not saying open everything up but I think there’s more reasonable steps that can be taken other than shutting down everything


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Its it more widespread than previously thought or not? You are arguing in the other thread that 30% of people have it and are asymptomatic. Instead of hacking it up here, maybe follow a consistent train of thought.

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Originally Posted by benny01

Its it more widespread than previously thought or not? You are arguing in the other thread that 30% of people have it and are asymptomatic. Instead of hacking it up here, maybe follow a consistent train of thought.

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It’s more contagious but these people really haven’t had any symptoms. It means the mortality rate would be much lower than the projected 2-3% and would be probably under 1%. It would also mean more people could be immune to it for when the second wave hits.


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Originally Posted by DeW-Star

Exactly. There’s also huge financial impact when you just ignore the problem and allow for wide swaths of people to just die or get very ill.

Brewers this is nothing like the flu (especially from a death rate perspective). We’re two months in on this virus in the US and it would still be getting exponentially worse without the drastic measures.


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That’s what the original models showed, if the lock down did not happen we would be talking about more than 100k deaths.

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Originally Posted by nastynice

I got no issue with states being given power to re open, but I hope those states understand how to read a graph.

America didnt and New York paid the price. That should be the last out break in America.

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Some states that had no stay at home order now have a spike in cases.

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Originally Posted by nastynice

I think its political. There are 2 sides to this issue, the virus and the economy. Each political side seems to prioritize differently. Both sides are right. It just depends how we want to move forward as a country.

Essentially what Brewers is saying is true. We need to figure out what protocol to set to allow us to start slowly opening back up. That's the smart way to go about it.

The big question is do we have leadership capable of figuring that protocol out. The answer is a resounding no.

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I disagree somewhat with the bolded. Our response to the virus is not what is the real root cause of our economic problems. The system is. The virus is simply highlighting the gaps in our economic system — which if we don’t address as a result of this event, we will face again.

For example, we have developed an increasingly service heavy economy that more and more relies on part-time or gig work, with relatively fewer empowering resources available to those workers, much less a heath care system that actually functions effectively.

I do not disagree with the notion that we should proceed, albeit cautiously, towards opening up. But I’d not like to ignore the things we can learn in our desire to do so.

This is just the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Except that these experts said yesterday that there’s enough testing for states to go into phase one as soon as today...


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Show me where? I know Dr Fucci said we “can” and he believes we “will” make ourselves ready to do this.


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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Please tell me where I said “**** it” and hope for the best.

There’s ways you can keep the economy open and take precaution against this. Keep the elderly people at home (especially the retired people)

Nursing homes only allow people in if they’ve been tested (15 min rapid testing) or temperatures taken. Allow a time period where they can go to the grocery store. Sometime in the morning.

Protect the most vulnerable while not destroying the economy.

Im not saying open up beaches or have concerts and packed stadiums. But there’s a reasonable approach you can take to protect the elderly and keep people working.


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Of course there are ways to keep the economy open and take precaution. Doesn't mean that they are super effective. When a smart plan is laid out by the experts, I'm totally open to going along with it. Having said that, I'd also wait a few weeks beyond whatever the new guidelines are before really going out myself. Would rather not be a beta tester for something like this.