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View Full Version : League possibly to raise tampering fines to $10 million



IndyRealist
09-15-2019, 09:56 AM
The memo addresses what the league called a ďwidespread perception that many of the leagueís rules are being broken on a frequent basisĒ when it comes to tampering, salary cap matters and the timing of free agency discussions.

So the league wants to hit rule breakers where it hurts most ó the checkbook, and possibly beyond. The league wants fines raised in part to reflect the 600% increase in league revenue and the 1,100% increase in franchise value since the fine ceilings were last touched in 1996.

In addition, teams will have to require its governor, top basketball operations executive and negotiators to certify annually that they did not talk to free agents or their representatives before the league rules allow. And with every player contract signed, each teamís governor will have to certify that no unauthorized benefits were offered and no rules were broken.

ďItís pointless, at the end of the day, to have rules that we canít enforce,Ē NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said in July after the board of governors met and talked about ways to adjust that process in an effort to ensure fairness across the league.
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/09/14/report-nba-tampering-vote-raise-fines

I don't see how this makes tampering rules more enforceable. If they are going to have a rule that is so difficult to implement that people rarely get caught, the only way to enforce the rule is to make the penalty so outrageous that no one would risk violating it. Right now, someone like Paul George easily brings in more than $10 million worth of value to a team, so there's no incentive NOT to tamper. Forfeiture of draft picks, termination of executives, decertification of agents, etc.

kdspurman
09-16-2019, 04:32 PM
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/09/14/report-nba-tampering-vote-raise-fines

I don't see how this makes tampering rules more enforceable. If they are going to have a rule that is so difficult to implement that people rarely get caught, the only way to enforce the rule is to make the penalty so outrageous that no one would risk violating it. Right now, someone like Paul George easily brings in more than $10 million worth of value to a team, so there's no incentive NOT to tamper. Forfeiture of draft picks, termination of executives, decertification of agents, etc.

Pretty much this

tredigs
09-17-2019, 04:59 AM
:laugh2:

:laugh: I'll always love you though LG. You magnanimous and thoughtful fellow degenerate wagerer you.

kobebabe
09-17-2019, 07:22 AM
That doesnít make any team stay away from tampering. Thatís a little change compared to what some of these players would bring to the organization. As someone mentioned above, make some ridiculously tough rules that would make it very risky for any team (including the wealthiest) to think twice about tampering

Heediot
09-17-2019, 08:13 AM
Instead of fining for 10M maybe deduct 10 million from their cap space the following year. If NYK had a projected 25 million in cap space, they would only have 15 Million. Take away a 1st round pick as well, which would make maneuvering for a max deal even harder.

Scoots
09-17-2019, 10:45 AM
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/09/14/report-nba-tampering-vote-raise-fines

I don't see how this makes tampering rules more enforceable. If they are going to have a rule that is so difficult to implement that people rarely get caught, the only way to enforce the rule is to make the penalty so outrageous that no one would risk violating it. Right now, someone like Paul George easily brings in more than $10 million worth of value to a team, so there's no incentive NOT to tamper. Forfeiture of draft picks, termination of executives, decertification of agents, etc.

It's theater. They STILL don't really care, they just want to look like they are doing something.

Lakers + Giants
09-17-2019, 12:55 PM
:laugh: I'll always love you though LG. You magnanimous and thoughtful fellow degenerate wagerer you.

:cheers:

The feeling is mutual, homie.

Cal827
09-19-2019, 04:34 AM
I like the money off the next year cap rule... but I would make it 20 million, along with the first round pick taken away... I would also maybe include blocking the teams ability to trade their 1st round picks for a couple years... I say this because many teams tampering are usually looking to get someone else, so block the trade route (e.g. George and the Clippers) :laugh2:

Scoots
09-19-2019, 09:18 AM
I like the money off the next year cap rule... but I would make it 20 million, along with the first round pick taken away... I would also maybe include blocking the teams ability to trade their 1st round picks for a couple years... I say this because many teams tampering are usually looking to get someone else, so block the trade route (e.g. George and the Clippers) :laugh2:

That's totally crazy. That's such a HUGE penalty the NBA would never enforce it.

smith&wesson
09-19-2019, 01:29 PM
To little to late. what the clippers did with Leonard and George is a clear indication that the league canít do a dam thing about tampering. Go ahead fine Balmer, heíll wipe his *** with that 10 mill. And the amount of money heíll make having the roster he currently has will justify him wiping his *** with 10 mill.

The Spurs, Raptors, Lakers, Thunder are all probably pretty upset about how everything transpired with KL and PG but my question is how would a fine to the clippers help the Raptors? Or the Thunder? Etc etc it wouldnít do a dam thing for them. The square root of Dick

smith&wesson
09-19-2019, 01:39 PM
And you know what, I ainít even mad. Good on the Clippers for achieving their goals. Itís not their fault the NBA canít enforce anything to stop tampering or have these sort of issues in their league. Straight up

crewfan13
09-19-2019, 01:56 PM
To little to late. what the clippers did with Leonard and George is a clear indication that the league canít do a dam thing about tampering. Go ahead fine Balmer, heíll wipe his *** with that 10 mill. And the amount of money heíll make having the roster he currently has will justify him wiping his *** with 10 mill.

The Spurs, Raptors, Lakers, Thunder are all probably pretty upset about how everything transpired with KL and PG but my question is how would a fine to the clippers help the Raptors? Or the Thunder? Etc etc it wouldnít do a dam thing for them. The square root of Dick

Maybe I missed it but explain how the clippers tampered in the PG and KL thing.

smith&wesson
09-19-2019, 03:27 PM
Maybe I missed it but explain how the clippers tampered in the PG and KL thing.

Thereís no way to prove it for sure and thatís my point how can you stop something you canít prove ?

Not speaking for the thunder or the spurs, but as a raptor fan I can tell you that Lawrence Frank and Steve Balmer were at a lot of raptors games making their presence known through out the season. Rivers on social media singing Leonardís praise while he was still under contract. And those were only things that we saw, who knows what was going on behind closed doors.

But again how could anyone prove tampering unless it was in writing and who would be dumb enough to do that?

The term tampering itself is a huge grey area. What is it defined by? Is a tweet acceptable ? How about an email ? A phone call ? Can a player of another team interact with another player out side of work and go to a social event together ? Ofcouse, but who knows what is said between them, right? Is that tampering? What exactly is tampering ? How can you even attempt to enforce something that is not even clearly defined, has a lot of grey area.

In other words, scrap the whole thing. The players end up where they want anyways.

Scoots
09-19-2019, 05:02 PM
Thereís no way to prove it for sure and thatís my point how can you stop something you canít prove ?

Not speaking for the thunder or the spurs, but as a raptor fan I can tell you that Lawrence Frank and Steve Balmer were at a lot of raptors games making their presence known through out the season. Rivers on social media singing Leonardís praise while he was still under contract. And those were only things that we saw, who knows what was going on behind closed doors.

But again how could anyone prove tampering unless it was in writing and who would be dumb enough to do that?

The term tampering itself is a huge grey area. What is it defined by? Is a tweet acceptable ? How about an email ? A phone call ? Can a player of another team interact with another player out side of work and go to a social event together ? Ofcouse, but who knows what is said between them, right? Is that tampering? What exactly is tampering ? How can you even attempt to enforce something that is not even clearly defined, has a lot of grey area.

In other words, scrap the whole thing. The players end up where they want anyways.

Good post.

I recall one team getting pinged for tampering based on a GM for one team seeing the schedule notes for an agent that listed one of his players names and another team name for a past call he had. Apparently then that was enough despite the team claiming they talked to the agent about their own player. It's just nearly impossible to police which is why they don't really try, and why this "new fine" is PR for the NBA and not really an attempt to change anything.

IndyRealist
09-19-2019, 05:55 PM
Players can talk to players. That's never been on the table, and the NBAPA would throw a fit if it were. The only really enforceable aspect of tampering rules is when a nonplayer employee of a team makes a public statement about a player on another team, outside of something like "he's a good player" and crossing into "he sure would good in Indiana". Very little else is enforceable under current guidelines.

There was talk about the league looking to have subpoena powers, seizng phone records and email servers, etc. The conversation was something like "if you really want us to enforce tampering rules, this is how we'd do it."

Do other sports have this problem? Or is it just NBA executives that are D-bags?

Scoots
09-19-2019, 09:33 PM
Players can talk to players. That's never been on the table, and the NBAPA would throw a fit if it were. The only really enforceable aspect of tampering rules is when a nonplayer employee of a team makes a public statement about a player on another team, outside of something like "he's a good player" and crossing into "he sure would good in Indiana". Very little else is enforceable under current guidelines.

There was talk about the league looking to have subpoena powers, seizng phone records and email servers, etc. The conversation was something like "if you really want us to enforce tampering rules, this is how we'd do it."

Do other sports have this problem? Or is it just NBA executives that are D-bags?

They all do it, only the NBA makes it a story.

crewfan13
09-19-2019, 09:46 PM
Thereís no way to prove it for sure and thatís my point how can you stop something you canít prove ?

Not speaking for the thunder or the spurs, but as a raptor fan I can tell you that Lawrence Frank and Steve Balmer were at a lot of raptors games making their presence known through out the season. Rivers on social media singing Leonardís praise while he was still under contract. And those were only things that we saw, who knows what was going on behind closed doors.

But again how could anyone prove tampering unless it was in writing and who would be dumb enough to do that?

The term tampering itself is a huge grey area. What is it defined by? Is a tweet acceptable ? How about an email ? A phone call ? Can a player of another team interact with another player out side of work and go to a social event together ? Ofcouse, but who knows what is said between them, right? Is that tampering? What exactly is tampering ? How can you even attempt to enforce something that is not even clearly defined, has a lot of grey area.

In other words, scrap the whole thing. The players end up where they want anyways.

But unless there's something sinister underneath, what the clippers did was nothing wrong. Kawhi was an impending FA. Having owners, coaches and GMs scouting those players is nothing. So there's nothing wrong with going to games.

And as doc has come out and said today, the clippers knew okc was looking to blow it up or at least make changes. So they didn't need to collaborate with George. Kawhi said he wanted to play with PG and LAC went and got him.

That's not tampering and never should be. Those teams shouldnt be upset. OKC got a MVP candidate worthy performance out of PG and couldnt put a team around him to advance a round. LAL had plenty of time to pitch kawhi and could have done anything to build around kawhi. The spurs had kawhi and publicly bashed him for not playing through an injury. Toronto trade for kawhi knowing full well him leaving after one year was a real possibility and actually the most likely scenario.

To me, tampering has become a lame excuse. People hate stars teaming up and think it's all tampering and that crap. It's not always. Maybe LAC did tamper. Or maybe LAC knew they were high on kawhis list and to get him asked him who he wanted to play with that could possibly be available and stepped up and made it happen.

ewing
09-19-2019, 10:43 PM
I wouldnít give a **** if a got fined 10 million. Why should NBA owners/franchises?


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warfelg
09-20-2019, 06:47 AM
NBA should turn a couple of people into snitches and fine the team $10mil and give it to whoever snitched.

smith&wesson
09-20-2019, 09:11 AM
But unless there's something sinister underneath, what the clippers did was nothing wrong. Kawhi was an impending FA. Having owners, coaches and GMs scouting those players is nothing. So there's nothing wrong with going to games.

And as doc has come out and said today, the clippers knew okc was looking to blow it up or at least make changes. So they didn't need to collaborate with George. Kawhi said he wanted to play with PG and LAC went and got him.

That's not tampering and never should be. Those teams shouldnt be upset. OKC got a MVP candidate worthy performance out of PG and couldnt put a team around him to advance a round. LAL had plenty of time to pitch kawhi and could have done anything to build around kawhi. The spurs had kawhi and publicly bashed him for not playing through an injury. Toronto trade for kawhi knowing full well him leaving after one year was a real possibility and actually the most likely scenario.

To me, tampering has become a lame excuse. People hate stars teaming up and think it's all tampering and that crap. It's not always. Maybe LAC did tamper. Or maybe LAC knew they were high on kawhis list and to get him asked him who he wanted to play with that could possibly be available and stepped up and made it happen.

You didnít read my post in its entirety. I donít think they did anything wrong either. I think the whole thing is stupid and my point was to scrap the tampering thing all together

crewfan13
09-20-2019, 09:37 AM
To little to late. what the clippers did with Leonard and George is a clear indication that the league canít do a dam thing about tampering. Go ahead fine Balmer, heíll wipe his *** with that 10 mill. And the amount of money heíll make having the roster he currently has will justify him wiping his *** with 10 mill.

The Spurs, Raptors, Lakers, Thunder are all probably pretty upset about how everything transpired with KL and PG but my question is how would a fine to the clippers help the Raptors? Or the Thunder? Etc etc it wouldnít do a dam thing for them. The square root of Dick


You didnít read my post in its entirety. I donít think they did anything wrong either. I think the whole thing is stupid and my point was to scrap the tampering thing all together

Your initial post heavily implies that the clippers did something shady.

And thats sort of the point. Just because super stars team up doesn't mean people tampered. It's become the catch all phrase, just like tanking has become the catch all phrase to describe every team that sucks.

Maybe there's more than meets the eye with the clippers situation. Maybe they really did reach out to George under the table. If they did that, then they should be punished. But the rest of it, are we really going to punish teams for watching other players live and having internal conversations about trade targets?

smith&wesson
09-20-2019, 11:25 AM
And you know what, I ainít even mad. Good on the Clippers for achieving their goals. Itís not their fault the NBA canít enforce anything to stop tampering or have these sort of issues in their league. Straight up

I think this is self explanatory

smith&wesson
09-20-2019, 11:28 AM
Your initial post heavily implies that the clippers did something shady.

And thats sort of the point. Just because super stars team up doesn't mean people tampered. It's become the catch all phrase, just like tanking has become the catch all phrase to describe every team that sucks.

Maybe there's more than meets the eye with the clippers situation. Maybe they really did reach out to George under the table. If they did that, then they should be punished. But the rest of it, are we really going to punish teams for watching other players live and having internal conversations about trade targets?

Itís no maybe, logic and common sense suggest itís a certainty. But I agree I think the whole idea of tampering can be spun on almost any move now and itís something thatís irrelevant at this point because like I said before players will always end up where they want to go anyways.

crewfan13
09-20-2019, 03:31 PM
Itís no maybe, logic and common sense suggest itís a certainty. But I agree I think the whole idea of tampering can be spun on almost any move now and itís something thatís irrelevant at this point because like I said before players will always end up where they want to go anyways.

And how is it a certainty? And that's my point. You can sit down and say it for sure happened, but there's no way to know. You can just cry tampering when there's no evidence and that's what happens today. It's all tampering because a team asked a stud free agent who he wanted to play with that may be reasonably available? That doesn't mean tampering.

By your definition of tampering, it would seem every trade ever made must be tampering, especially if you consult other players on it.

goingfor28
09-21-2019, 12:25 AM
Maybe I missed it but explain how the clippers tampered in the PG and KL thing.This. The Clippers didn't sign Kawhi until almost 2 weeks into FA, and you never heard a peep out of them. Whereas the Lakers and other teams had leaked rumors every second of every day.

Saddletramp
09-21-2019, 05:55 AM
I wouldnít give a **** if a got fined 10 million. Why should NBA owners/franchises?


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Iím sure itís not the only reason but this is what partly separates you from these billionaires that own these teams. $10 million is still $10 million.

crewfan13
09-21-2019, 03:45 PM
This. The Clippers didn't sign Kawhi until almost 2 weeks into FA, and you never heard a peep out of them. Whereas the Lakers and other teams had leaked rumors every second of every day.

But this is my point. Leaking rumors isn't tampering either. Half the time it's the agents that are the origin of those rumors. And kawhi was a free agent, so you can't really tamper with him.

Tampering would be if the Clippers brass, not kawhi or his agent, go to PG and tell him we're signing kawhi, so request a trade. Or if there's evidence that the Clippers instructed kawhi to contact PG on their behalf.

If the Clippers gave kawhi a list of players they could try to acquire and called the team to try to trade for him, that's fine.

And again, thats my whole point. Tampering has become this catch all. It's not. Everytime teams get players doesn't mean someone tampered.

smith&wesson
09-22-2019, 11:06 AM
And how is it a certainty? And that's my point. You can sit down and say it for sure happened, but there's no way to know. You can just cry tampering when there's no evidence and that's what happens today. It's all tampering because a team asked a stud free agent who he wanted to play with that may be reasonably available? That doesn't mean tampering.

By your definition of tampering, it would seem every trade ever made must be tampering, especially if you consult other players on it.

Youíve basically found another way to make the same point Iíve made only youíre doing it in a rebuttal somehow. Follow the thread, understand the conversation taking place and then jump in. Donít just read the first few lines and run with that understanding, there might be more to what is being said. Itís frustrating when someone wants to hold on to what their perception of your point is.

In any case I think we can both agree that this whole tampering thing is stupid and we can both move on.

Scoots
09-24-2019, 05:58 PM
New rule instituted last week, first tampering fine handed down this week ... $10M? Nope. $50k

Saddletramp
09-24-2019, 07:05 PM
New rule instituted last week, first tampering fine handed down this week ... $10M? Nope. $50k

Forget the money. Either take away cap space or draft picks. Next available draft pick (at the time of the offense) or $10 million in cap space.