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Tg11
07-26-2019, 06:45 AM
What do the Clippers have to do to overtake the Lakers in the city of LA? Or what do the Brooklyn Nets have to do to overtake the New York Knicks? In LA it will always be Laker Nation just like in New York it will always be Knicks Town? Just like in football you have the Rams and Chargers in LA...just like in New York you have the Jets and Giants and in baseball you have the Dodgers and Angels and in New York you have the Mets and Yankees. Good portion of LA are Clippers fans but the other portion is predominantly Laker fans. Just like in New York you have Knicks fans predominantly but the rest are Nets fans. Furthermore, I just think it is interesting. That being said the only way Clippers and Nets overtake the Lakers and Knicks in their respective cities is to win a title before the Lakers and Knicks do.

ManningToTyree
07-26-2019, 07:20 AM
For the moment: win titles
Long term: knicks/lakers will always rule.


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Tg11
07-26-2019, 07:46 AM
Yeah which is why I said by winning titles people will hop the bandwagon of the Nets and Clippers and forget all about the Lakers and Knicks

TheDish87
07-26-2019, 09:03 AM
we live in a bandwagon generation now so if the Nets and Clips are the more successful teams in their city and competing for titles they will be able to at least briefly take over. Short of Lebron wanting to retire in LA the Lakers have been pretty irrelevant for the greater part of a decade and the Knicks are quite arguably the worst run franchise in the history of sports right there with the Browns prior to the Baker era and the Cilppers of the Sterling era.

Scoots
07-26-2019, 09:37 AM
Yeah which is why I said by winning titles people will hop the bandwagon of the Nets and Clippers and forget all about the Lakers and Knicks

Unfortunately no. The Clippers/Nets will never have the core fanbase or the history of the Lakers/Knicks.

Giannis94
07-26-2019, 10:30 AM
Nets already have overtaken Knicks; LAC about to overtake LOL after another inevitable implosion

smith&wesson
07-26-2019, 11:34 AM
All I want to know is how many times the Clippers & Lakers face each other, each one of those games will be a playoff game.

All my friends in New York say the same thing... “New York doesn’t have a team” until they got Kyrie and KD in Brooklyn now it’s “Brooklyn is New York’s team”

You have to understand when both teams have been so bad for so long it’s hard to argue over who reps the state when no one wants to support garbage. At least KD & Kyrie give Brooklyn hope and at this point whichever NY team shows more promise, that’s NY’s team, so it’s BK right now.

Max.This
07-26-2019, 12:16 PM
Nets already have overtaken Knicks; LAC about to overtake LOL after another inevitable implosion

I know you absolutely don't live in new york based on that statement. Outside of SAS everyone knows New york city is a knicks fanbase. There is absolutely zero news on KD and kyrie. Notice how fast the media info on them died down a day after their decision. All the media coverage was on the fact that Knicks didn't get the star, not the fact that Brooklyn did. The most popular team with the most posters in their teams forum is the knicks and they've been absolute garbage for the past 2 decades. It's easy to say little anecdotes like my friend says this which represents 1 or 2 disgruntled fans.

TheMightyHumph
07-26-2019, 05:29 PM
Most Knick fans post how much they suck. That's ownership.

James Dolan on the bass guitar. Tip your waitresses.

Tg11
07-26-2019, 05:41 PM
Knicks have one of the worst records accumulated over the past 6 years and next to them at the second worst is the Lakers

beasted86
07-26-2019, 10:48 PM
After like 6 titles (if Knicks win none within that timeframe) it will be like "Knicks who?" in New York.

But LAC have no chance.

rhino17
07-27-2019, 01:03 AM
The Lakers are the premier franchise i the league, nothing will ever change that. But the Clippers can be a great organization in their own right.

The Knicks are and have been for decades, a dumpster fire. Comparing them with the Lakers is laughable. They are a historically bad franchise, not respected by anyone outside of NY. Terrible owner, terrible stadium, terrible team, and no one wants to play there. I would imagine Brooklyn will eventually be a player destination that NY KNicks are not

Lakers + Giants
07-27-2019, 04:25 AM
The Lakers are the premier franchise i the league, nothing will ever change that. But the Clippers can be a great organization in their own right.

The Knicks are and have been for decades, a dumpster fire. Comparing them with the Lakers is laughable. They are a historically bad franchise, not respected by anyone outside of NY. Terrible owner, terrible stadium, terrible team, and no one wants to play there. I would imagine Brooklyn will eventually be a player destination that NY KNicks are not

:clap:

Tg11
07-27-2019, 06:50 AM
Yeah but at best the Lakers front office in of that of itself is not only family ran but it is dysfunctional at best compared to the Clippers front office who has Steve Ballmer the richest owner in the NBA who ran Microsoft but also they have The Architect Jerry West who was responsible for the Lakers championship runs but also he is the brainchild for the Golden State dynasty too...so you tell me whose front office is more reliable and stable?

Whereas in New York the Knicks front office is more or less a joke and the Nets front office for the most part has managed to turn themselves around

Comparing cultures, don't get me wrong the Lakers and Knicks historically are "the standard" but the Lakers haven't won a title in over 9 years (2010) whereas the Knicks haven't won a title in over 46 years...1973...one of the longest droughts in modern sports right now

Lakers in the past 6 years have been much like the Knicks...irrelevant but now the Lakers are relevant but then again so are the Clippers which makes the Battle of LA all the more interesting this upcoming season

Whereas in New York Brooklyn has more or less took over but the only way the Knicks are ever relevant again is if Dolan sells the team but also they fire their current GM and hire a new one plus fire and hire front office personnel too to turn them around

beasted86
07-27-2019, 09:54 AM
LA and NY are definitely not "the standard". They are cities blessed to be in a metro market with 13-19 million residents respectively.

For comparison sake, Miami's metro area (which is actually 7th in the US) only has 6 million.

D-Leethal
07-27-2019, 10:19 AM
Nets were dead last in all fan metrics (attendance, TV ratings etc.) last year and Knicks were #1. This was while the Knicks were the #1 tank team and the Nets were an up and coming young playoff team. It would take a seismic shift of epic proportions to get them even remotely close.

Knicks have been a laughingstock but the fans haven't wavered and that's not gonna change. It would take a LeBron type rookie going to the Nets and sustained success over a long period with the Knicks continuing their futility to even begin to balance it out. This upcoming 3 year window the Nets have will improve themselves from a fan and media perspective but unless they are winning titles it's not gonna do much and they will go back to the gutter once the team scraps it and rebuilds.

KD was boo'ed at Citi field when they announced his signing and the back page was all about the Knicks loss and not the Nets win. I've yet to see a Nets article in a NY paper that was not framed through the lens of the Knicks disappointment. Nets have a shot to build their own fanbase with the hipsters in Brooklyn but they aren't gonna chip into any of the Knicks fanbase IMO. I also don't see the NY media putting the focus on the Nets anytime soon.

Pistol_Pete
07-27-2019, 03:14 PM
The Knicks are still the most valuable franchise in the NBA. They are still New York's team. There's a number of things the Nets have to do to takeover being NY's team, and it would take decades.

1) A generation needs to grow up with the team and pass that on to their kids. People need to make emotional ties to the team and then pass that on. This is probably the one true long-term thing you can do to supplant the Knicks.

2) They need to have all-stars and entertaining players. They can't just have someone who was an all-star 4x out of a 10 year career. They need players like Kyrie and Durant. They need those superstars. They need to have people in Nets jerseys in their career retrospectives. They need to have a handful of the best players having played here.

3) A homegrown all-star. Kyrie and Durant are great, but they are coming in after 8 and 12 years with other teams (and multiple other teams) already. They need a 10 year superstar. The Nets need someone like a Kobe who came up there and is forever linked to the team.

4) Moments. They need a number of memorable moments. They don't have to be final shot in the finals moments, but they need to be moments. They need to have "The Dunk" in a game, or breaking records, or maybe guys winning all-star events even.

5) They need a Charles Oakley. NY loves a good tough scrapper. Brooklyn even more. They need a guy who is not only tough, but is KNOWN to be tough. A tough guy on top of a tough defender.

BONUS) They need a truly charismatic, entertaining player. This is New York. Imagine someone like prime Shaq in Brooklyn. People would have gone crazy.

Sure a championship helps, but these are some of the things they need to do long-term to capture NY.

rhino17
07-27-2019, 04:41 PM
Comparing cultures, don't get me wrong the Lakers and Knicks historically are "the standard"

No they aren't. The Knicks are closer to the Cleveland Browns than the Lakers. There are probably 10 franchises more historically relevant than the Knicks. They are irrelevant

TheMightyHumph
07-27-2019, 04:42 PM
Knicks local viewership down 38% in '18-'19

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2019/04/29/Media/NBA-ratings.aspx

rc33
07-27-2019, 06:17 PM
It can happen but it'd take 10 years or more of high level play and several championships. Even then, I'm not sure. The Lakers have that tremendous history; you could say the Nets have a better chance cuz of decades of Knicks ineptitude. As an example; the Patriots were easily the 4th most popular team in Boston up to 2001. Now they own the sports headlines 12 months a year. The Red Sox just went 119-57 and won their 4th World Series since 2004 and they have been supplanted. It's like the 17-time champion Celtics and the Bruins, who just went to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals, are almost begging for scraps.
It would take a long, long run like this to have those two cities turn on the Knicks and especially the Lakers.

ohreally
07-27-2019, 10:58 PM
It can happen but it'd take 10 years or more of high level play and several championships. Even then, I'm not sure. The Lakers have that tremendous history; you could say the Nets have a better chance cuz of decades of Knicks ineptitude. As an example; the Patriots were easily the 4th most popular team in Boston up to 2001. Now they own the sports headlines 12 months a year. The Red Sox just went 119-57 and won their 4th World Series since 2004 and they have been supplanted. It's like the 17-time champion Celtics and the Bruins, who just went to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals, are almost begging for scraps.
It would take a long, long run like this to have those two cities turn on the Knicks and especially the Lakers.


What you’re saying is most folks are band-wagoners.

If the Patriots have years of ineptitude while the Celtics, Sox, and/or Bruins do well, things will change.

Nets will own Brooklyn first (by far, not all hipsters), but take along growing numbers of folk from the other boroughs.

The Knicks, and their sense of entitlement, are the anti-Knicks of the glory years and Ewing/Oakley years.

D-Leethal
07-28-2019, 09:20 AM
What you’re saying is most folks are band-wagoners.

If the Patriots have years of ineptitude while the Celtics, Sox, and/or Bruins do well, things will change.

Nets will own Brooklyn first (by far, not all hipsters), but take along growing numbers of folk from the other boroughs.

The Knicks, and their sense of entitlement, are the anti-Knicks of the glory years and Ewing/Oakley years.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I would say the vast majority of long time Knick fans from Brooklyn have not and will not make the switch. You guys were getting booed at home games vs the Knicks last year while the Knicks were tanking and many fans tuned out. You will however get a nice chunk of young fans and transplants and eventually build up that borough, but it's going to get built from the ground up. Long time/devoted fans don't just switch teams, who the hell does that? Fans in Brooklyn have been rooting for the Knicks for decades. Ask Spike Lee.

Lots of casuals in NY don't like the Knicks though. I have friends who are Laker fans, Bulls fans, Warrior fans, LeBron fans etc. You will attract those guys. But once this Kyrie/KD run is over they probably go back to being a bandwagon fan of another team because that's how they roll.

Tg11
07-29-2019, 05:24 AM
For people from LA who live in LA are basically gonna be torn between the Lakers and Clippers especially for this upcoming season

ManningToTyree
07-30-2019, 02:53 AM
Nets were dead last in all fan metrics (attendance, TV ratings etc.) last year and Knicks were #1. This was while the Knicks were the #1 tank team and the Nets were an up and coming young playoff team. It would take a seismic shift of epic proportions to get them even remotely close.

Knicks have been a laughingstock but the fans haven't wavered and that's not gonna change. It would take a LeBron type rookie going to the Nets and sustained success over a long period with the Knicks continuing their futility to even begin to balance it out. This upcoming 3 year window the Nets have will improve themselves from a fan and media perspective but unless they are winning titles it's not gonna do much and they will go back to the gutter once the team scraps it and rebuilds.

KD was boo'ed at Citi field when they announced his signing and the back page was all about the Knicks loss and not the Nets win. I've yet to see a Nets article in a NY paper that was not framed through the lens of the Knicks disappointment. Nets have a shot to build their own fanbase with the hipsters in Brooklyn but they aren't gonna chip into any of the Knicks fanbase IMO. I also don't see the NY media putting the focus on the Nets anytime soon.

Well said. This really isn’t even a point of discussion in and around the city everyone knows it is a knicks town.


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Iron24th
07-30-2019, 12:39 PM
I feel very bad for knicks fans, they deserve better.

Lakers + Giants
07-30-2019, 01:00 PM
For people from LA who live in LA are basically gonna be torn between the Lakers and Clippers especially for this upcoming season

That's not the case lmao

Tg11
07-30-2019, 01:06 PM
That's not the case lmao

Actually it would be because southern Californians would obviously be Laker fans and people in northern California and what not would be Clippers fans

Iron24th
07-30-2019, 02:12 PM
That's not the case lmao

Yeah how can you be torn between a legendary reloaded franchise and a franchise who got 14 times in the playoffs in 50 years and never got past the 2nd round...

Lakers + Giants
07-30-2019, 03:07 PM
Actually it would be because southern Californians would obviously be Laker fans and people in northern California and what not would be Clippers fans

Warriors? Kings?

Dude, you're losing it...

WhiteShadow42
07-30-2019, 07:07 PM
For people from LA who live in LA are basically gonna be torn between the Lakers and Clippers especially for this upcoming season

Been a Lakers fan since 78. There is no argument whatsoever that the predominant LA team is the Lakers. They have a global fanbase. If Clippers win a couple of ships, then they will start to have some fans. It's not even close. Go to a Clippers game. Most of the fans are Lakers fans that got a free ticket or something. If Clippers go on a 10 year tear with 3-4 ships, then we can have a discussion.

Can't comment for the Knicks. I'm a West coast guy.

smood999
08-06-2019, 12:11 PM
No they aren't. The Knicks are closer to the Cleveland Browns than the Lakers. There are probably 10 franchises more historically relevant than the Knicks. They are irrelevant

The question is in terms of popularity, not results. We all know that the Knicks are a terrible franchise, but in terms of popularity, it's them and the Lakers.

smood999
08-06-2019, 12:13 PM
Knicks local viewership down 38% in '18-'19

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2019/04/29/Media/NBA-ratings.aspx

Even with that, they were still in the top-10 in the league in terms of TV viewership and they were a 17-win team. Meanwhile, look who was dead last although they made the playoffs.

smood999
08-06-2019, 12:15 PM
Well said. This really isn’t even a point of discussion in and around the city everyone knows it is a knicks town.


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You can take it even further and highlight that most of the Nets fanbase is in northern NJ still and they still don't even dominate that area.

Laker Legend42
08-09-2019, 03:52 AM
we live in a bandwagon generation now so if the Nets and Clips are the more successful teams in their city and competing for titles they will be able to at least briefly take over. Short of Lebron wanting to retire in LA the Lakers have been pretty irrelevant for the greater part of a decade and the Knicks are quite arguably the worst run franchise in the history of sports right there with the Browns prior to the Baker era and the Cilppers of the Sterling era. Not winning yes. Irrelevant? Heck no. The lakers still makes money for the NBA as a whole and funds the garbage teams. Every year they make more money than anyone else. The clippers will never overtake the lakers in this city. Until a few years ago there were only around 7 to 10 clippers fans here. Billy crystal, clipper Darrell and a few other guys from around the city. Even when “lob city” was going on you could get into staples for a clippers playoff game for under 100 bucks. That should change this year. The clippers will always be second class citizens.

Tg11
08-09-2019, 05:10 AM
How about in New York? I mean the Knicks have been irrelevant for decades now whereas the Brooklyn Nets are essentially a contender now

Like you would think most New Yorkers would want to cheer on a team that gives them a chance to win a title

Brooklyn gives them that chance whereas New York Knicks do not

I know the Nets will most likely never overtake the Knicks unless the Nets themselves were playing in Madison Square Garden and not Barclays

New York being a basketball mecca because of MSG but come on the Knicks do they generate money like the Lakers do in LA?

ManningToTyree
08-09-2019, 10:50 AM
How about in New York? I mean the Knicks have been irrelevant for decades now whereas the Brooklyn Nets are essentially a contender now

Like you would think most New Yorkers would want to cheer on a team that gives them a chance to win a title

Brooklyn gives them that chance whereas New York Knicks do not

I know the Nets will most likely never overtake the Knicks unless the Nets themselves were playing in Madison Square Garden and not Barclays

New York being a basketball mecca because of MSG but come on the Knicks do they generate money like the Lakers do in LA?

Yes they do generate money like the Lakers. They haven’t been relevant in 20 years and are as popular as ever never gunna change.


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still a fan
08-18-2019, 09:07 PM
interesting the outside ny posters, do you not read Forbes?

Really nothing else needs to be said but history, the Jason Kidd Nets were the team, the team that won and Knicks stunk, why is it different now?

Any of you for one second think we Knick fans will now be net fans? It took the Nets how many years to get to this point? Now all of sudden NBA fans have amnesia?
Did the Boston trade leave your memories? how many players did the Nets try, and how many picks didn't they have?

So now last year they barely finished .500 and Russell was a main reason why, but he's gone, all the vet's that got them there are all gone, and they will be missed.

also Durant may miss a majority or even all season, so they lost players and added Kyrie, and Jordan is no longer the old Jordan, and he's locked for 4 years.

No one is jumping on the bandwagon in NY, not yet any way......lots to prove. And Lastly how to player return from ACL. A 100%? And not like KD is young either, he will no doubt come back a very good player but will he be a top 5? And ask Boston about Kyrie?

Not saying these two aren't great but after KD got hurt many knick fans were not in total disappointment they didn't come, I think people are sleeping on the Knicks and they still have plenty of flexibility.

still a fan
08-18-2019, 09:10 PM
How about in New York? I mean the Knicks have been irrelevant for decades now whereas the Brooklyn Nets are essentially a contender now

Like you would think most New Yorkers would want to cheer on a team that gives them a chance to win a title

Brooklyn gives them that chance whereas New York Knicks do not

I know the Nets will most likely never overtake the Knicks unless the Nets themselves were playing in Madison Square Garden and not Barclays

New York being a basketball mecca because of MSG but come on the Knicks do they generate money like the Lakers do in LA?

seriously? do more research, its easy lol.

And you have no idea what the Mecca means, nothing to do with MSG, nothing at all.

GREATNESS ONE
08-18-2019, 11:53 PM
Lmfao at how clueless some posters are in here.

wallerstein
08-22-2019, 04:09 PM
What history are we talking about in the case of the Knicks? And franchises have to start somewhere. I wouldn't bury the Nets and the Clippers too soon.