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buckalis
07-20-2019, 05:29 PM
Giannis Antetokounmpo (as expected) leading the odds...

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nba/mvp-award-odds/

tredigs
07-20-2019, 06:02 PM
Value is on Curry and Jokic. Both will have monster seasons. Giannis doesn't have much of a narrative path to win b2b.

buckalis
07-20-2019, 06:15 PM
Value is on Curry and Jokic. Both will have monster seasons. Giannis doesn't have much of a narrative path to win b2b.

You was saying the same crap last season about Giannis (the NBA's king for the next decade)...

Truth is that Jokic looks like he is being "absent from the floor" whenever he is unfortunate to share it with Giannis when his team plays against the Bucks and Curry will be lucky if GSW makes it to 2nd round of the playoffs this season...

Chronz
07-20-2019, 06:51 PM
Yeah Im not putting money on Yanni but heres his case

WHO ELSE is putting up his numbers on a good team built solely around his talents? The best players are on load management by now (Kawhi, Bron for sure)

I see Harden and RWB clashing. Curry is my darkhorse considering he lost an MVP and an All-Star.

Someone is going to have to take the leap Giannis did last year to win this over Curry. Or if Bron has another 82 game slate in him.

tredigs
07-20-2019, 08:43 PM
You was saying the same crap last season about Giannis (the NBA's king for the next decade)...

Truth is that Jokic looks like he is being "absent from the floor" whenever he is unfortunate to share it with Giannis when his team plays against the Bucks and Curry will be lucky if GSW makes it to 2nd round of the playoffs this season...
What?

I had a Giannis future on him for MVP and made his case all season. It's just super tough to repeat and the Bucks will be worse this year. His path isn't there.

Playoffs don't matter for MVP and I would still take the Curry led Warriors for a better chance to reach the WCF than the Bucks, who haven't done so as long as me or anyone I know has been alive (edit nevermind, apparently you lost the tight one against the Sixers in 01 before the Lakers stomped them out, so theres that to hold on to). Jokic was a monster in the post season and validated his massive reg season stats. If they win 50+ and get HCA he has a great shot.

In summation, your're a homer/annoying.

More-Than-Most
07-21-2019, 12:36 AM
Id bet curry or lebron over Giannis quite easily...

Top 5 this year will be

Curry/Lebron
Giannis
KL
Harden


Harden isnt just gonna go away even with westy.

buckalis
07-21-2019, 04:28 AM
Id bet curry or lebron over Giannis quite easily...

Top 5 this year will be

Curry/Lebron
Giannis
KL
Harden


Harden isnt just gonna go away even with westy.

You was suggesting Embiid over Giannis last season...

More-Than-Most
07-21-2019, 05:34 AM
You was suggesting Embiid over Giannis last season...

Yup because I didnt expect the bucks to cover up for giannis weaknesses which they did where is embiid has to do his job with 2 weaknesses... in ben simmons and his lack of shooting and Joel and his eating issues... you can stop making this about joel and giannis because i wont keep feeding the trolls because you and the other bucks fans dont show up when you guys get spanked per the raptors series etc so its pointless... Giannis is the safer choice but if i had to win id take joel... except joel only has 5 years left unless he changes his diet and works **** out... we never had to work around joels weaknesses like the bucks have done for giannis lmfao.... Its curry/lebron by quite a bit but keep trying.

OH and i hate curry far more than i hate Giannis but keep trying to make this a sixers/bucks thing

buckalis
07-21-2019, 10:48 AM
Yup because I didnt expect the bucks to cover up for giannis weaknesses which they did where is embiid has to do his job with 2 weaknesses... in ben simmons and his lack of shooting and Joel and his eating issues...

LOL...


you can stop making this about joel and giannis because i wont keep feeding the trolls...

LOL... you started it! but it was before this ever happened...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ocqBqtaKC4

"ouch! ...I tell you... that is... that has heart me... to watch this!"

Giannis94
07-21-2019, 10:51 AM
Yup because I didnt expect the bucks to cover up for giannis weaknesses which they did where is embiid has to do his job with 2 weaknesses... in ben simmons and his lack of shooting and Joel and his eating issues... you can stop making this about joel and giannis because i wont keep feeding the trolls because you and the other bucks fans dont show up when you guys get spanked per the raptors series etc so its pointless... Giannis is the safer choice but if i had to win id take joel... except joel only has 5 years left unless he changes his diet and works **** out... we never had to work around joels weaknesses like the bucks have done for giannis lmfao.... Its curry/lebron by quite a bit but keep trying.

OH and i hate curry far more than i hate Giannis but keep trying to make this a sixers/bucks thing

That's ****ing horeshit. You were nowhere to be found the following weeks after the 76ers played to their tendencies and got eliminated in the second rounds. You were legit nowhere to be found.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-21-2019, 12:17 PM
Yeah Im not putting money on Yanni but heres his case

WHO ELSE is putting up his numbers on a good team built solely around his talents? The best players are on load management by now (Kawhi, Bron for sure)

I see Harden and RWB clashing. Curry is my darkhorse considering he lost an MVP and an All-Star.

Someone is going to have to take the leap Giannis did last year to win this over Curry. Or if Bron has another 82 game slate in him.

Curry probably since no KD if Giannis doesnt get MVP again. Is Klay healthy? If not a even greater chance for Curry cause he'll have to shoulder a big load then to scratch for playoffs. Not sure how DLO fits in with the Warriors. Embiid be next in line possibly with no Butler. Maybe Kemba?

buckalis
07-21-2019, 12:35 PM
Curry probably since no KD if Giannis doesnt get MVP again. Is Klay healthy? If not a even greater chance for Curry cause he'll have to shoulder a big load then to scratch for playoffs. Not sure how DLO fits in with the Warriors. Embiid be next in line possibly with no Butler. Maybe Kemba?

With Giannis improving in each and every season and having reached an impressive 121/99 O/D rating last season, I can't see who can challenge him... Giannis may end up at 125/95 OD rating this season if keeps improving at the same pace...

Steph I can't see being in the race this season... Russell's chemistry with GSW's game is questionable and I believe people overestimate the team's capabilities without both KD and Thompson... Embiid or Kemba can't even be in the conversation IMO... they are in the same conference as Giannis and this always works to Giannis' advantage...

Looking to the West, one out of the "usual suspects" (AD, Harden, Kawhi and P.George) may be the one that challenges Giannis...

Bostonjorge
07-21-2019, 03:22 PM
Top 3 in blocks
Top 3 in rebounds
Top 10 in scoring
Top 5 in defensive rating
Top 4 team record

Anthony Davis will win MVP if he can accomplish all of this.

JAZZNC
07-21-2019, 03:43 PM
Top 3 in blocks
Top 3 in rebounds
Top 10 in scoring
Top 5 in defensive rating
Top 4 team record

Anthony Davis will win MVP if he can accomplish all of this.
He won't, so he wont. And absolutely no way does a teammate of LeBron get MVP.

buckalis
07-21-2019, 04:02 PM
Top 3 in blocks
Top 3 in rebounds
Top 10 in scoring
Top 5 in defensive rating
Top 4 team record

Anthony Davis will win MVP if he can accomplish all of this.

It's the Giannis improvement of steady magnitude from one season to the next that makes one wondering what he may be able to achieve next season...

More-Than-Most
07-21-2019, 10:10 PM
That's ****ing horeshit. You were nowhere to be found the following weeks after the 76ers played to their tendencies and got eliminated in the second rounds. You were legit nowhere to be found.

the **** are you even talking about... go look at the game thread genius... you are the one that tucked tail for 2 months when your team lost... i was in there conversating after my team lost/during my team losing and even posted the titanic song vid to my team losing and posted all finals long and everyone here that was in the finals thread can back that up... gtfo

VCaintdead17
07-21-2019, 10:55 PM
That's ****ing horeshit. You were nowhere to be found the following weeks after the 76ers played to their tendencies and got eliminated in the second rounds. You were legit nowhere to be found.

Calm down Brewerboy

Gimme Jokic. Can't see the Warriors record being good enough for Curry to win it.

IndyRealist
07-22-2019, 08:38 AM
Top 3 in blocks
Top 3 in rebounds
Top 10 in scoring
Top 5 in defensive rating
Top 4 team record

Anthony Davis will win MVP if he can accomplish all of this.

Top 4 team record is asking a lot. That division will be a bloodbath

Tg11
07-22-2019, 09:04 AM
I say Kawhi will be the MVP this season

crewfan13
07-22-2019, 09:59 AM
Top 3 in blocks
Top 3 in rebounds
Top 10 in scoring
Top 5 in defensive rating
Top 4 team record

Anthony Davis will win MVP if he can accomplish all of this.

AD is an interesting case. It really depends on what role lebron settles into. If the rest of the team is good enough, I could see the Lakers asking less of regular season lebron and lean on AD more in the regular season. If that's the case and they are top 2 in the conference, AD might have a legit case.

crewfan13
07-22-2019, 10:03 AM
I say Kawhi will be the MVP this season

His team is pretty decent around him. Assuming LAC takes a similar approach that Toronto did last year, I don't think kawhi plays enough games to win MVP.

crewfan13
07-22-2019, 10:18 AM
As a whole, outside of Westbrooks first triple double season, the MVP has gone to the best statistical player on one of the top 2 teams in either conference. There's usually a plus for newcomers/narrative and a minus for voter fatigue.

With that in mind, I think the top contender teams for top 2 in each conference are Milwaukee and Philly in the east with indy and Boston as the dark horses. Milwaukee would be giannis, but he probably gets dinged for voter fatigue. Phillys best bet is embiid, but it's fairly likely he misses a decent amount of games, which makes it hard to give it to him. No one else on either team has mvp upside this year. Indys best player isn't mvp quality and won't play enough games and boston is too balanced.

For the west, the top teams look like both LA teams, Denver and probably Houston. LeBron and kawhi would make sense, but both probably get plenty of rest games. Jokic doesn't really fit the mold of type of player to win, but he'll have an interesting arguement if they finish top 2. Harden lost after a crazy efficient year. Hard to see him repeating that performance, especially with Westbrook in tow. Harden will be in the convo but not likely. If lebron and kawhi sit, goerge and AD have a chance at being the regular season guy. I give AD the upper edge there.

And the last two would be curry and dame of they can get their teams to the top 2 or maybe 3 in an odd year.

Back to backs seems rare, but it does really feel like giannis has the clearest path. I'd obviously take the field over giannis, but if I had to take one guy, he still feels like the best path.

Rivera
07-22-2019, 12:58 PM
Since we are just posting the best players on our favorite teams:

Nikola Vucevic!!!!!!!!!!!!! MVP!!!!

mightybosstone
07-22-2019, 01:42 PM
It's super hard to go back-to-back in MVP voting, but Giannis is in a damn good position to do it. Multiple MVP candidates who were on separate teams are now together (Harden/Westbrook, Lebron/Davis, Kawhi, George), which typically leads to them cancelling each other out. And with Kawhi leaving and a lot of the top teams in the East getting a little worse, the East is definitely worse than last season on paper.

Curry has an excellent chance to win his third, but will Golden State get a high enough seed to get him there? Even with the Klay injury, I think the Warriors could land a top 4-5 seed, but I'm not sure that's enough. Outside of those two, Jokic and Embiid are getting criminally underrated by that site. They both are the unquestioned best players on their teams and will likely finish toward the top of their respective conferences.

One darkhorse I'll throw out there who's worth discussing: Kemba Walker. He's still extremely unlikely but consider that he put up a relatively efficient 26/6/4 last season. Imagine if he did that and Boston somehow won more games than last season and ended up with a top 2-3 seed in the East? I think Boston took a step back on paper in terms of talent, but there's a possibility that through the development of the young guys and Kemba's addition, they could feasibly win more games.

Vee-Rex
07-22-2019, 02:25 PM
Yeah I'm going with Giannis here. Curry if his team pushes into a top seed in the West.

ChongInc.
07-22-2019, 02:36 PM
Since we are just posting the best players on our favorite teams:

Nikola Vucevic!!!!!!!!!!!!! MVP!!!!

Siakam!

Tg11
07-22-2019, 02:53 PM
Kemba is one of my darkhorses for MVP but then so is Paul George

mightybosstone
07-22-2019, 03:09 PM
Kemba is one of my darkhorses for MVP but then so is Paul George

If PG isn't the best player on his own team, how is he going to win MVP? He'd have to outproduce Kawhi or Kawhi would have have to miss significant time due to injury. Also, the Clippers would have to win so many games that the fact that they have two top 10 guys on the same roster wouldn't be that huge of a factor.

In all honestly, George wouldn't be on my top 10 list for most likely MVPs. The guy just has too many factors going against him to win the award. But if Kawhi goes down with an injury that causes him to miss a huge chunk of the season, that could change in a hurry.

Giannis94
07-22-2019, 03:22 PM
Calm down Brewerboy

Gimme Jokic. Can't see the Warriors record being good enough for Curry to win it.

Given that you don't respect the issue of "identity"- it's safe to assume that you're one of those people that currently call Kaitlyn Jenner "Bruce Jenner" despite the name change. That is the exact same as to what you're going for here by not respekting my name/identity change.

VCaintdead17
07-22-2019, 09:07 PM
Given that you don't respect the issue of "identity"- it's safe to assume that you're one of those people that currently call Kaitlyn Jenner "Bruce Jenner" despite the name change. That is the exact same as to what you're going for here by not respekting my name/identity change.

Yes someone in the public light transitioning is exactly the same as someone on an internet forum changing their username. These two are the same.

WaDe03
07-22-2019, 10:01 PM
Wade03 has such a huge head start....but it's starting to to get close.

Rent free in you clowns heads, gotta love it.

WaDe03
07-22-2019, 10:03 PM
The obvious answer is Jimmy, my dark horse is Brogden since heís apparently going to lead Indiana a top 3 seed.

IndyRealist
07-22-2019, 10:10 PM
The obvious answer is Jimmy, my dark horse is Brogden since heís apparently going to lead Indiana a top 3 seed.

I don't know why you think it's some miraculous thing for a 5 seed to go to a 3 seed when pretty much everyone above them got weaker.

WaDe03
07-22-2019, 10:39 PM
I don't know why you think it's some miraculous thing for a 5 seed to go to a 3 seed when pretty much everyone above them got weaker.

They donít have their best player for a nice chunk and they lost their best scorer PG and their Swiss Army knife.

IndyRealist
07-22-2019, 11:06 PM
They donít have their best player for a nice chunk and they lost their best scorer PG and their Swiss Army knife.

They don't have Oladipo for like 2 months. Brodgon is no worse than breaking even with Collison, and Sabonis moving into the starting lineup makes them stronger overall. AND the Pacers replaced several below average players on the bench (Cory Joseph, Tyreke Evans, Kyle O'Quinn) with net positive players (Jeremy Lamb, TJ McConnell, Justin Holiday). If Goga isn't horrendous, a 3 seed isn't unreasonable in the slightest.

TrueFan420
07-23-2019, 01:58 AM
He won't, so he wont. And absolutely no way does a teammate of LeBron get MVP.

Agreed. If all those things happened it would only be because of Lebrons greatness taking AD to the next level. No teammate of Bron will ever get it. They win cause of Bron and lose because of their flaws as teammates to Bron. Thatís always been the narrative and the MVP vote loves a good narrative.

crewfan13
07-23-2019, 08:58 AM
If PG isn't the best player on his own team, how is he going to win MVP? He'd have to outproduce Kawhi or Kawhi would have have to miss significant time due to injury. Also, the Clippers would have to win so many games that the fact that they have two top 10 guys on the same roster wouldn't be that huge of a factor.

In all honestly, George wouldn't be on my top 10 list for most likely MVPs. The guy just has too many factors going against him to win the award. But if Kawhi goes down with an injury that causes him to miss a huge chunk of the season, that could change in a hurry.

And if kawhi is hurt and misses a good chunk of the season, it's hard to see a scenario where the clippers finish with a good enough record to put PG in the discussion. The west is stacked and a kawhi less clippers probably aren't a top 4 seed.

warfelg
07-23-2019, 09:00 AM
Gut feeling: Jimmy Butler is going to be up there. I bet voters end up trying to make a statement that in the age of planned teamups, solo ride or die guy gets a boost.

crewfan13
07-23-2019, 09:45 AM
I think dame may have a legit chance. If I had to pick someone outside the top 5 in odds, it would probably be him. Every top candidate has something major that hurts them. Giannis needs to be better statistically to have any shot at repeating, which is hard. Kawhi, lebron and harden all have 2 legit stars that will likely hurt their stats and chances and all 3 (or at least 2 of the 3) are at least somewhat likely to get load managament days off. PG, AD and russ will all be hurt by the argument that they aren't the best player on their team, even if their stats are better.

And teams like Boston and Philly are too balanced for 1 guy to emerge. The one guy who could emerge from that group would be embiid, but it's probably unrealistic to expect embiid to play enough games to really warrant consideration.

So to me, that leaves jokic and lillard as the clear 1s on teams with a chance to finish with good records. And dame more fits the bill of the type of guy who wins the award. True bigs like jokic don't win a ton anymore and lillard plays a role that likely gives him more MVP type moments (game winners, memorable buckets ect).

buckalis
07-23-2019, 09:51 AM
They don't have Oladipo for like 2 months. Brodgon is no worse than breaking even with Collison, and Sabonis moving into the starting lineup makes them stronger overall. AND the Pacers replaced several below average players on the bench (Cory Joseph, Tyreke Evans, Kyle O'Quinn) with net positive players (Jeremy Lamb, TJ McConnell, Justin Holiday). If Goga isn't horrendous, a 3 seed isn't unreasonable in the slightest.

Brogdon is good, but no better than Bojan at 2 or Collison at PG... Lamb, McDonnell will help, but they are not more of an upgrade than the competition (for the 3 to 6 seeding in the East) has had...

IMO, the Pacers will have the Nets, the Celtics and the Pistons to fight against as far as the "record competition" that will decide the 3 to 6 seeding in the East final ranking... Everybody underestimates the Pistons this season, but they are wrong in doing so...

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 10:06 AM
Gut feeling: Jimmy Butler is going to be up there. I bet voters end up trying to make a statement that in the age of planned teamups, solo ride or die guy gets a boost.

Media tends to go against Miami so weíll see. Not sure why, maybe because Miami doesnít leak information. But for example you never heard about JRich when he was with Miami and Whiteside was apparently garbage, now JRich is a top 3 and D guy out there and Whiteside is a great pickup for Portland and a great defensive force.

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 10:07 AM
If Jimmy plays similar or better than his last year in Chicago then heíll definitely be in the discussion though and Miami will finish top 4.

Wes Mantooth
07-23-2019, 10:31 AM
Jimmy Butler is not even in the conversation. Don't be such a Miami homer.

The easy obvious answer would be Giannis. My MVP guess right now will be Steph. With KD gone and Clay injured he is going to jack up shots at a higher rate. I wouldn't be shocked if he led the NBA in PPG. Russ is going to steal possessions from Harden. Lebron is going to give up opportunities for the Brow.

IndyRealist
07-23-2019, 10:39 AM
Brogdon is good, but no better than Bojan at 2 or Collison at PG... Lamb, McDonnell will help, but they are not more of an upgrade than the competition (for the 3 to 6 seeding in the East) has had...

IMO, the Pacers will have the Nets, the Celtics and the Pistons to fight against as far as the "record competition" that will decide the 3 to 6 seeding in the East final ranking... Everybody underestimates the Pistons this season, but they are wrong in doing so...

I didn't say the Pacers would be 3rd, I said it's not unreasonable for them to get 3rd.

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 10:41 AM
Jimmy Butler is not even in the conversation. Don't be such a Miami homer.

The easy obvious answer would be Giannis. My MVP guess right now will be Steph. With KD gone and Clay injured he is going to jack up shots at a higher rate. I wouldn't be shocked if he led the NBA in PPG. Russ is going to steal possessions from Harden. Lebron is going to give up opportunities for the Brow.

You must not know much about Jimmy, thatís on you. Hate that for you. Sixers fan also said it

mightybosstone
07-23-2019, 11:43 AM
You must not know much about Jimmy, thatís on you. Hate that for you. Sixers fan also said it

Here are the stats from the last 10 MVPs:
2019: Giannis: 28/13/6/1/2 with a .292 WS/48 for a 60-win team
2018: Harden: 30/5/9/2/1 with a .289 WS/48 for a 65-win team
2017: Westbrook: 32/11/10/2 with a .224 WS/48 for a 47-win team
2016: Curry: 30/5/7/2 with a .318 WS/48 for a 73-win team
2015: Curry: 24/4/8/2 (in only 32.7 MPG) with a .288 WS/48 for a 67-win team
2014: Durant: 32/7/6/1/1 with a .295 WS/48 for a 59-win team
2013: Lebron: 27/8/7/2/1 with a .322 WS/48 for a 66-win team
2012: Lebron: 27/8/6/2/1 with a .298 WS/48 for a 46-win team (on pace for 57 wins in shortened season)
2011: Rose: 25/4/8/1/1 with a .208 WS/48 for a 62-win team
2010: Lebron: 30/7/9/2/1 with a .299 WS/48 for a 61-win team

So what two trends are fairly obvious here? That these guys are putting up absurd numbers, and (in most cases) doing so for teams that were among the 2-3 best in the league. Rose in 2011 and Curry in 2015 stand out because their numbers don't grab you at first glance (Curry's advanced numbers that year were still insane), but their teams were exceptional. Westbrook's win 2017 stands out because OKC was the only guy listed whose team didn't win (or was on pace to win) at least 57 games, but he averaged a triple double, which the media lost their minds over.

So here are some fun facts on Jimmy Butler:
1. His career numbers are 17/5/4/2 with a .184 WS/48.
2. His peak season was probably 2016-17 with Chicago, when he averaged 24/6/6/2 with a .236 WS/48.
3. Aside from that season, he's only topped 22 points once, never topped 6 rebounds again, never topped 5 assists again and never never reached a WS/48 over .200 again.
4. The Miami Heat won 39 games last season.

So, I would write a novel here explaining why Butler isn't going to win the MVP next season, but if all the data I just posted previously in the post don't convince you, then nothing will. Jimmy Butler will not be the 2019-20 MVP, but feel free to believe what you want. You will anyway...

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 11:57 AM
Here are the stats from the last 10 MVPs:
2019: Giannis: 28/13/6/1/2 with a .292 WS/48 for a 60-win team
2018: Harden: 30/5/9/2/1 with a .289 WS/48 for a 65-win team
2017: Westbrook: 32/11/10/2 with a .224 WS/48 for a 47-win team
2016: Curry: 30/5/7/2 with a .318 WS/48 for a 73-win team
2015: Curry: 24/4/8/2 (in only 32.7 MPG) with a .288 WS/48 for a 67-win team
2014: Durant: 32/7/6/1/1 with a .295 WS/48 for a 59-win team
2013: Lebron: 27/8/7/2/1 with a .322 WS/48 for a 66-win team
2012: Lebron: 27/8/6/2/1 with a .298 WS/48 for a 46-win team (on pace for 57 wins in shortened season)
2011: Rose: 25/4/8/1/1 with a .208 WS/48 for a 62-win team
2010: Lebron: 30/7/9/2/1 with a .299 WS/48 for a 61-win team

So what two trends are fairly obvious here? That these guys are putting up absurd numbers, and (in most cases) doing so for teams that were among the 2-3 best in the league. Rose in 2011 and Curry in 2015 stand out because their numbers don't grab you at first glance (Curry's advanced numbers that year were still insane), but their teams were exceptional. Westbrook's win 2017 stands out because OKC was the only guy listed whose team didn't win (or was on pace to win) at least 57 games, but he averaged a triple double, which the media lost their minds over.

So here are some fun facts on Jimmy Butler:
1. His career numbers are 17/5/4/2 with a .184 WS/48.
2. His peak season was probably 2016-17 with Chicago, when he averaged 24/6/6/2 with a .236 WS/48.
3. Aside from that season, he's only topped 22 points once, never topped 6 rebounds again, never topped 5 assists again and never never reached a WS/48 over .200 again.
4. The Miami Heat won 39 games last season.

So, I would write a novel here explaining why Butler isn't going to win the MVP next season, but if all the data I just posted previously in the post don't convince you, then nothing will. Jimmy Butler will not be the 2019-20 MVP, but feel free to believe what you want. You will anyway...

Hate that you wasted that much time on a post I donít care about and that is irrelevant to what hell do in the future. Again, if he puts up numbers like his last year in Chicago Miami will be a top 4 seed and heíll be in the discussion.

buckalis
07-23-2019, 12:27 PM
I didn't say the Pacers would be 3rd, I said it's not unreasonable for them to get 3rd.

Did I ever claim that you did? :)

buckalis
07-23-2019, 12:34 PM
Hate that you wasted that much time on a post I donít care about and that is irrelevant to what hell do in the future. Again, if he puts up numbers like his last year in Chicago Miami will be a top 4 seed and heíll be in the discussion.

Who cares what you hate? After all, you hate yourself to start with... It's a good post he made, very informative!

Ignore list for you! You are only posting nonesense and also are totally unable to have a conversation or develop arguments on anything related to the game...

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 12:38 PM
Who cares what you hate? After all, you hate yourself to start with... It's a good post he made, very informative!

Ignore list for you! You are only posting nonesense and also are totally unable to have a conversation or develop arguments on anything related to the game...

Please no!!! Anything but the ignore list, Iíll do anything!!!

How many times have you been banned? This is hilarious coming from you.

LeonFSU
07-23-2019, 12:48 PM
I didn't say the Pacers would be 3rd, I said it's not unreasonable for them to get 3rd.

Not unreasonable, but I'd be surprised. They had a 16-22 record without Oladipo and have a lot of new players to integrate.

Wes Mantooth
07-23-2019, 12:54 PM
You must not know much about Jimmy, thatís on you. Hate that for you. Sixers fan also said it

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

Ha ha. I must not, but basketball reference does. You just can't admit it can you. You are such a homer. So your argument is that I don't know what I'm talking about (even though you don't know me), and that a random fan agrees with you. That is so weak. At least give me some facts to support your claim.

Check out Jimmy's advanced stats and compare them with the other top guys. He is a great player, but he is a borderline all star if he was in the west. He doesn't dominate like the other MVP candidates. You're just excited to have him in Miami. So go ahead and be positive about your team. It's all good. Most fans do it, and they should.

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 01:25 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

Ha ha. I must not, but basketball reference does. You just can't admit it can you. You are such a homer. So your argument is that I don't know what I'm talking about (even though you don't know me), and that a random fan agrees with you. That is so weak. At least give me some facts to support your claim.

Check out Jimmy's advanced stats and compare them with the other top guys. He is a great player, but he is a borderline all star if he was in the west. He doesn't dominate like the other MVP candidates. You're just excited to have him in Miami. So go ahead and be positive about your team. It's all good. Most fans do it, and they should.

His impact is near the top of the league. Heís finally where he wants to be and heís the main guy. If he puts up numbers as has similar impact to what he did in his last year in Chicago Miami will be a top 4 seed and he will be in the conversation whether you like it or not. That has nothing to do with being a homer, thatís just the facts.

IndyRealist
07-23-2019, 02:59 PM
Did I ever claim that you did? :)

No, that was the conversation that you jumped in on. That Brogdon would be an MVP candidate because people project the Pacers 3rd seed.

IndyRealist
07-23-2019, 03:01 PM
Not unreasonable, but I'd be surprised. They had a 16-22 record without Oladipo and have a lot of new players to integrate.

They're theoretically be without Oladipo for 20ish games, all early. Pacers fell apart at the end of last season when they had to run out a hobbled Tyreke Evans. Subbing Lamb for Evans is like +12 wins. Obviously they lost some elsewhere, but people don't realize how much of a negative Tyreke was last year.

mightybosstone
07-23-2019, 03:03 PM
Hate that you wasted that much time on a post I donít care about and that is irrelevant to what hell do in the future. Again, if he puts up numbers like his last year in Chicago Miami will be a top 4 seed and heíll be in the discussion.

It took about 10 minutes actually. That's how you actually formulate a basketball takeóyou look at numbers, articles and supporting evidence and use that to derive an opinion that you share with someone you're discussing sports with. You don't just randomly spout off absurd trades you claim are going to happen based on make believe sources you lie about knowing, talk about your previous basketball career as a bench guy at a Division III school and then go "I know basketball better than you."

You shouldn't be criticizing me; you should be taking notes. School's in session. Let me know when you want to learn somethingóI'm happy to teach you more. ;)

LeonFSU
07-23-2019, 03:06 PM
I think Butler could be in the conversation, similar to how Paul George got some (albeit not serious) attention last year, but probably more like top 5 than top 3.

LeonFSU
07-23-2019, 03:12 PM
They're theoretically be without Oladipo for 20ish games, all early. Pacers fell apart at the end of last season when they had to run out a hobbled Tyreke Evans. Subbing Lamb for Evans is like +12 wins. Obviously they lost some elsewhere, but people don't realize how much of a negative Tyreke was last year.

Yes, but it's a long layoff to expect him to pick up where he left off. To me it seems like a lot has to go right for them, including having their new guys click and Oladipo returning smoothly. Certainly not out of the question, but I wouldn't pick them to be top 3.

buckalis
07-23-2019, 04:11 PM
They're theoretically be without Oladipo for 20ish games, all early. Pacers fell apart at the end of last season when they had to run out a hobbled Tyreke Evans. Subbing Lamb for Evans is like +12 wins. Obviously they lost some elsewhere, but people don't realize how much of a negative Tyreke was last year.

Actually ACL injury usually requires more than 11 months and up to 13..., Victor may miss 30+ games... +12wins is extremely optimistic to expect from Lamb's addition... Never the less, Lamb will have an impact for the better in the Pacers roster...

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 04:23 PM
It took about 10 minutes actually. That's how you actually formulate a basketball takeóyou look at numbers, articles and supporting evidence and use that to derive an opinion that you share with someone you're discussing sports with. You don't just randomly spout off absurd trades you claim are going to happen based on make believe sources you lie about knowing, talk about your previous basketball career as a bench guy at a Division III school and then go "I know basketball better than you."

You shouldn't be criticizing me; you should be taking notes. School's in session. Let me know when you want to learn somethingóI'm happy to teach you more. ;)

Lmfao! You crack me up MBT!

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 04:25 PM
Actually ACL injury usually requires more than 11 months and up to 13..., Victor may miss 30+ games... +12wins is extremely optimistic to expect from Lamb's addition... Never the less, Lamb will have an impact for the better in the Pacers roster...

I guess itís a good thing he didnít tear his ACL then buddy

WaDe03
07-23-2019, 04:26 PM
I think Butler could be in the conversation, similar to how Paul George got some (albeit not serious) attention last year, but probably more like top 5 than top 3.

Yep, this is the exact thing that crosses my mind when I mention it. This is not a bad take at all people just like to talk ****

IndyRealist
07-23-2019, 05:08 PM
Actually ACL injury usually requires more than 11 months and up to 13..., Victor may miss 30+ games... +12wins is extremely optimistic to expect from Lamb's addition... Never the less, Lamb will have an impact for the better in the Pacers roster...

Lamb is not +12. Lamb was +8 last year and Evans -4. Hence, net +12 that will balance out the -8 from losing Thad and replacing Bogdanovic with Warren (-4ish).

Dipo has a quad tear not an ACL.

tredigs
07-23-2019, 06:19 PM
I mean, if Jimmy receives top-5 MVP chatter that would be the first instance of it occurring in his career. Pretty unlikely to say the least.

Paths for top 5 consideration are clear for Giannis, Curry, Jokic, and at least 1 of AD/Lebron + Kawhi/PG. Harden always finds his way there as well. Butler won't register in the conversation even if he matches his career highs and they pull a 4 seed.

crewfan13
07-23-2019, 06:50 PM
I think Butler could be in the conversation, similar to how Paul George got some (albeit not serious) attention last year, but probably more like top 5 than top 3.

Paul George put up 28/8/4. Butlers best year was 24/6/6. That was also in Butlers age 27 season. Typically players peak around 26 or 27. Butler will be 30. Even though his role will increase, expecting him to exceed his career highs, which is what he's have to do to even get PG consideration most likely is a bold stance.

Tg11
07-24-2019, 11:26 AM
Kawhi, Harden or Steph will win MVP most likely Steph especially now with KD gone and Klay injured...I can just see Steph going off

mightybosstone
07-24-2019, 12:28 PM
Kawhi, Harden or Steph will win MVP most likely Steph especially now with KD gone and Klay injured...I can just see Steph going off

Why not Giannis? He's still the only real superstar on that Milwaukee team, so he's going to keep putting up absurd numbers. And the rest of the conference got much weaker, so they're pretty likely to end up with a top 2 seed. Great numbers + Team success = Serious MVP consideration. Going into the season, I've got to think he's the favorite at this point.

buckalis
07-24-2019, 12:59 PM
1153760195841003521

yeap!

Wes Mantooth
07-25-2019, 08:23 AM
His impact is near the top of the league. Heís finally where he wants to be and heís the main guy. If he puts up numbers as has similar impact to what he did in his last year in Chicago Miami will be a top 4 seed and he will be in the conversation whether you like it or not. That has nothing to do with being a homer, thatís just the facts.


https://www.sbnation.com/sports-betting-odds-gambling/2019/7/18/20698811/2020-nba-mvp-betting-odds
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

NBA MVP Betting Odds 2020

Giannis Antetokounmpo +300

Stephen Curry +500

James Harden +700

Kawhi Leonard +800

LeBron James +900

Anthony Davis +1000

Joel Embiid +1200

Luka Doncic +1600

Nikola Jokic +1600

Paul George +2500

Russell Westbrook +2500


Butler is not even on the list. He doesn't even have 25 to 1 odds. There are other great reasons he will never win it. He doesn't score enough points. Even during his best scoring year he only averaged 23.9. That would have only ranked him 14th last year. He only averaged 18.2 last year. Scoring has been the biggest factor in determining this award. He'll turn 30 before the season starts. That is historically where players can start to decline, not improve. His team would have to win a ton of games. With that roster it's gonna be hard. Also, even if they won a bunch of games we all know they play 2/3rds of them against the eastern conference and it won't get the same respect. The east has the Bucks and Sixers, then a talent drop, the Celtics, then another talent cliff, and then a bunch of teams that would miss the playoffs in the west (until KD is healthy). 4th in the weak east isn't anything to influence voters. Jimmy also has a poor reputation going against him. There have been plenty of bad headlines. So in summary he needs to average 10-15 more points per game, win 10+ more games than his team is expected, and be a positive locker room influence for the first time while turning 30. Wow. I'd bet everything I own against that. Ca'mon man your picture alone screams homer.

JAZZNC
07-25-2019, 08:51 AM
the **** are you even talking about... go look at the game thread genius... you are the one that tucked tail for 2 months when your team lost... i was in there conversating after my team lost/during my team losing and even posted the titanic song vid to my team losing and posted all finals long and everyone here that was in the finals thread can back that up... gtfo

You were right there to take your licks after the loss. No idea what he's talking about.

WaDe03
07-25-2019, 09:54 AM
https://www.sbnation.com/sports-betting-odds-gambling/2019/7/18/20698811/2020-nba-mvp-betting-odds
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

NBA MVP Betting Odds 2020

Giannis Antetokounmpo +300

Stephen Curry +500

James Harden +700

Kawhi Leonard +800

LeBron James +900

Anthony Davis +1000

Joel Embiid +1200

Luka Doncic +1600

Nikola Jokic +1600

Paul George +2500

Russell Westbrook +2500


Butler is not even on the list. He doesn't even have 25 to 1 odds. There are other great reasons he will never win it. He doesn't score enough points. Even during his best scoring year he only averaged 23.9. That would have only ranked him 14th last year. He only averaged 18.2 last year. Scoring has been the biggest factor in determining this award. He'll turn 30 before the season starts. That is historically where players can start to decline, not improve. His team would have to win a ton of games. With that roster it's gonna be hard. Also, even if they won a bunch of games we all know they play 2/3rds of them against the eastern conference and it won't get the same respect. The east has the Bucks and Sixers, then a talent drop, the Celtics, then another talent cliff, and then a bunch of teams that would miss the playoffs in the west (until KD is healthy). 4th in the weak east isn't anything to influence voters. Jimmy also has a poor reputation going against him. There have been plenty of bad headlines. So in summary he needs to average 10-15 more points per game, win 10+ more games than his team is expected, and be a positive locker room influence for the first time while turning 30. Wow. I'd bet everything I own against that. Ca'mon man your picture alone screams homer.

Thatís cool

Giannis94
07-25-2019, 11:21 AM
Kinda laughable that Doncic has 1.5x better odds than PG & Statstuffer

WaDe03
07-25-2019, 11:58 AM
The odds didnít include Miami on Jimmy butlers destinations either but....

buckalis
07-27-2019, 12:21 PM
Why not Giannis? He's still the only real superstar on that Milwaukee team, so he's going to keep putting up absurd numbers. And the rest of the conference got much weaker, so they're pretty likely to end up with a top 2 seed. Great numbers + Team success = Serious MVP consideration. Going into the season, I've got to think he's the favorite at this point.

Actually Giannis numbers on the team are no more than ...normal (him obviously being the best player)!

The expected starting squad of the Bucks for this season scored 102.7pts (Bledsoe15.8, Hill19.7, Middleton21.2, and Brolo15.6 next to Giannis30.4) per 36mins on the floor last season... Thus making it very possible that the Bucks will exceed 130pts per game this season, given that they have added 2 sharpshooters on their bench on Matthews and Korver as well as RoLo to back up his bro on center to the rest of the squad that would share the remaining of 60mins... and of course all this is (statistical) facts, not hamble-jungle nonsense that any utter idiot sees in "the Bucks being inferior because they lost Brogdon"...

I therefore don't see any chance the Bucks ending anywhere else than (again) the No1 team in the league which surely doesn't leave much space for anyone else coming even close to Giannis for being the favorite... Unless of course if one can find another team that is statistically proven it can be close to 130pts per game...

Heck... the man ended last season with 121/99 (!!!) O/D rating... and he improves on each and every season further!

buckalis
08-25-2019, 07:36 PM
Latest odds:

1.Giannis Antetokounmpo:+300
2.Stephen Curry:.............+500
3.James Harden:..............+700
4.Kawhi Leonard:.............+800
5.LeBron James:..............+900
6.Anthony Davis:.............+1000
7.Joel Embiid:.................+1200
8.Luka Doncic:................+1600
9.Nikola Jokic:................+1600
10.Karl Anthony-Towns:...+2000

tredigs
08-25-2019, 11:29 PM
Latest odds:

1.Giannis Antetokounmpo:+300
2.Stephen Curry:.............+500
3.James Harden:..............+700
4.Kawhi Leonard:.............+800
5.LeBron James:..............+900
6.Anthony Davis:.............+1000
7.Joel Embiid:.................+1200
8.Luka Doncic:................+1600
9.Nikola Jokic:................+1600
10.Karl Anthony-Towns:...+2000
With Kawhi being the supposed best player in the world, the Clippers the NBA favorite, and him claiming he will not load manage whatsoever this year, it begs the question why he is not the MVP favorite (not that I think he should be).

VCaintdead17
08-25-2019, 11:45 PM
With Kawhi being the supposed best player in the world, the Clippers the NBA favorite, and him claiming he will not load manage whatsoever this year, it begs the question why he is not the MVP favorite (not that I think he should be).

Agreed. He's currently my pick, mainly because of the narrative behind it.

tredigs
08-26-2019, 12:21 AM
Agreed. He's currently my pick, mainly because of the narrative behind it.

Him, Jokic and Curry are the value plays right now.

VCaintdead17
08-26-2019, 01:03 AM
I don't see Golden State winning enough games for Curry to win it. I also don't think it makes sense to ride Curry that heavily this season either.

tredigs
08-26-2019, 06:15 AM
I don't see Golden State winning enough games for Curry to win it. I also don't think it makes sense to ride Curry that heavily this season either.

He's going to average 30/6/6 in elite efficiency and have a very good case for the best player in the game, but their seeding will be the struggle. Could be 3. Could be 7.

buckalis
08-26-2019, 09:37 AM
He's going to average 30/6/6 in elite efficiency and have a very good case for the best player in the game, but their seeding will be the struggle. Could be 3. Could be 7.

GSW can be anywhere between 5th and 9th this season, but no higher than 5th in any case...

mightybosstone
08-26-2019, 12:43 PM
I think people are sleeping on Golden State this season. Look at the West the last few years, and aside from them, the top has been historically pretty crowded. With no unquestioned favorite in the conference and a ton of teams who will be adapting to significant roster changes, I think there's a strong chance we end up with 5-6 teams in that 48-55 win range. And with teams that close, a roster that has experience winning games like Golden State just needs to stick around and make a run at the end. If they can stay a few games above .500 until Klay gets back, I don't see why they couldn't win 50 games and sneak into a top 3-4 seed.

buckalis
08-26-2019, 01:05 PM
I think people are sleeping on Golden State this season. Look at the West the last few years, and aside from them, the top has been historically pretty crowded. With no unquestioned favorite in the conference and a ton of teams who will be adapting to significant roster changes, I think there's a strong chance we end up with 5-6 teams in that 48-55 win range. And with teams that close, a roster that has experience winning games like Golden State just needs to stick around and make a run at the end. If they can stay a few games above .500 until Klay gets back, I don't see why they couldn't win 50 games and sneak into a top 3-4 seed.

Don't expect Thompson back before the playoffs and ranking will have been decided by then... Russell doesn't fit like Thompson chemistry wise within the GSW system, therefore... unless if one has a crystal ball, GSW is the biggest question mark in the league... Could be that they make the playoffs, could be a possibility that they don't...

VCaintdead17
08-26-2019, 01:27 PM
I think people are sleeping on Golden State this season. Look at the West the last few years, and aside from them, the top has been historically pretty crowded. With no unquestioned favorite in the conference and a ton of teams who will be adapting to significant roster changes, I think there's a strong chance we end up with 5-6 teams in that 48-55 win range. And with teams that close, a roster that has experience winning games like Golden State just needs to stick around and make a run at the end. If they can stay a few games above .500 until Klay gets back, I don't see why they couldn't win 50 games and sneak into a top 3-4 seed.

I just don't think they have the legs to persevere until Klay gets back and returns to form. Team like the Clippers, Nuggets, Jazz, Rockets can theoretically lose a guy and keep on rolling. Sure there have been a ton of roster changes for western teams, but Golden State is in that same boat. Don't think they get a free pass from trying to figure out how everyone gels together just because of past success. This fact, plus their lack of a bench should raise serious concerns. And riding Curry 34+ minutes a night feels dangerous. He's what, played an extra seasons worth of games over the past 5 years because of deep playoff runs, playing 37+ mpg the past two? They're gonna run him into the ground at this rate.

tredigs
08-26-2019, 01:31 PM
GSW can be anywhere between 5th and 9th this season, but no higher than 5th in any case...
I mean, that's just foolish.

They could certainly be as high as 3rd very easily. I have them 5-6 as the most likely scenario, but no team is going to run away with the West and all scenarios are in play depending on injury/fit along with potential mid season trades. They have synergy + arguably the best offensive and defensive players in the game manning the ship. Their SF and depth are trash for now, but they're top heavy enough that it could still yield a 50+ win team. By the playoffs I expect them to be as potent as any roster in the league if Klay is at >80% (might be a tall ask, we will see).

buckalis
08-26-2019, 01:43 PM
There is a sense among certain basketball related circles (not reporters) that there will be a straight trade happening which will send DA Russell to the Pelicans and Jrue Holiday in return to GSW... I think it benefits both teams if this is the case, at least it should secure GSW being in a playoff seed and then not at the lesser ones... If this happens, maybe GSW has a chance to be among the 4 west teams that will make it to the 2nd round...

In any case, I can't see anyone else than Giannis establishing himself as the league's best player, or even "the best player in the world"... Giannis is most marketable than all of the rest, he plays for a team that is totally depended on him and has no clear No2 in the team to take some glow out of his shining... Additionally, he is easily the most attractive and enjoyable to watch...

VCaintdead17
08-26-2019, 01:48 PM
There is a sense among certain basketball related circles (not reporters) that there will be a straight trade happening which will send DA Russell to the Pelicans and Jrue Holiday in return to GSW... I think it benefits both teams if this is the case, at least it should secure GSW being in a playoff seed and then not at the lesser ones... If this happens, maybe GSW has a chance to be among the 4 west teams that will make it to the 2nd round...

In any case, I can't see anyone else than Giannis establishing himself as the league's best player, or even "the best player in the world"... Giannis is most marketable than all of the rest, he plays for a team that is totally depended on him and has no clear No2 in the team to take some glow out of his shining... Additionally, he is easily the most attractive and enjoyable to watch...

yeah you definitely just made this up

buckalis
08-26-2019, 02:13 PM
yeah you definitely just made this up

Well... the people that "made it up" are pro agents that know how the league works and concluded this scenario as to explain why KD agreed to a "sign and trade" and didn't "just join" the Nets...

Basically, Zion signed with CAA, DA Russell is CAA, Paul George is CAA while Lebron and AD (along with more Lakers) are Klutch... Also Lonzo Ball changed agent and signed with CAA a month before the draft night...

naps
08-27-2019, 08:30 PM
LeBron winning another one after 7 years would be ****ing amazing. Can't believe dude only has 4 (Felt the same with Jordan and Shaq).
Giannis won't win it unless Bucks have the number one seed in the league and there's not much of a storyline. Repeating is HARD on mvp award.
I got 2 storylines to look forward to:

1. Jokic --If Denver has close to 60 wins. MVP voters love new faces.

2. Steph -- Crazy how people are underrating the warriors this year. They can very well be a 55+ win team this year. If that happens, Steph is kind of a lock considering how a lot of analysts have them as a fringe playoff team and some are even doubting if they will make the postseason.