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View Full Version : Why doesnít LeBron ďgiftĒ himself more championships?



WaDe03
07-17-2019, 10:01 AM
This is a topic Iím curious on and would like to get some answers about. So many times as a Heat and Wade fan, and Iím sure other Heat fans can back this as well, we hear about how LeBron gifted Miami 2 rings or LeBron gifted Wade 2 rings. Iím just wondering.....if this is the case why doesnít he gift himself more rings? Why wouldnít he gift his hometown of Cleveland more rings than a city that previously didnít mean much to him in Miami? Why didnít he gift himself 1 in LA so he could win at least 1 with 3 different teams before Kawhi does. I mean if he can just gift rings whenever he wants why hasnít he won every year? I mean if this was the case he couldíve ended the GOAT debate 8 years ago and we wouldnít be hearing about it anymore and he would be sitting a top the basketball world on his own level with nobody even close to him.

Miami: 4 years and 2 championships
Cleveland: 11 years and 1 championship
LA: 1 year and 0 playoff appearances

LeBron is in my top 5 players of all time, probably top 3 but Iím legit curious.....if this is the case, why doesnít he gift himself more championships?

smith&wesson
07-17-2019, 10:23 AM
This is a topic Iím curious on and would like to get some answers about. So many times as a Heat and Wade fan, and Iím sure other Heat fans can back this as well, we hear about how LeBron gifted Miami 2 rings or LeBron gifted Wade 2 rings. Iím just wondering.....if this is the case why doesnít he gift himself more rings? Why wouldnít he gift his hometown of Cleveland more rings than a city that previously didnít mean much to him in Miami? Why didnít he gift himself 1 in LA so he could win at least 1 with 3 different teams before Kawhi does. I mean if he can just gift rings whenever he wants why hasnít he won every year? I mean if this was the case he couldíve ended the GOAT debate 8 years ago and we wouldnít be hearing about it anymore and he would be sitting a top the basketball world on his own level with nobody even close to him.

Miami: 4 years and 2 championships
Cleveland: 11 years and 1 championship
LA: 1 year and 0 playoff appearances

LeBron is in my top 5 players of all time, probably top 3 but Iím legit curious.....if this is the case, why doesnít he gift himself more championships?

His first stint with the Cavs they didnít have a contending caliber team around him. The players around him were mediocre at best.

His first season in LA was his first real injury causing him to miss significant time. You canít control injuries.


And somewhere in between there the spurs and warriors happened.

Even with a super team a lot of things have to align and you need some luck. I donít think anyoneís ever been gifted a championship. Itís extremely hard to win it all hence why nearly half the league has never won.

Vee-Rex
07-17-2019, 10:28 AM
It usually only comes from LeBron stans trying to prop up LeBron, or Wade haters trying to diminish Wade's impact. There's no other reason to say he 'gifted' Miami 2 championships. Agendas are agendas.

He'd certainly have another ring or two if it wasn't for Golden State.

smith&wesson
07-17-2019, 10:33 AM
It usually only comes from LeBron stans trying to prop up LeBron, or Wade haters trying to diminish Wade's impact. There's no other reason to say he 'gifted' Miami 2 championships. Agendas are agendas.

He'd certainly have another ring or two if it wasn't for Golden State.

Might have another one if JR Smith had half a brain

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 10:44 AM
Might have another one if JR Smith had half a brain

I doubt it, I donít think 1 game wouldíve changed that series. I mean they got swept. But to also be fair LeBron apparently hurt himself after the game punching something IIRC.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 10:45 AM
It usually only comes from LeBron stans trying to prop up LeBron, or Wade haters trying to diminish Wade's impact. There's no other reason to say he 'gifted' Miami 2 championships. Agendas are agendas.

He'd certainly have another ring or two if it wasn't for Golden State.

Agendas definitely play a role

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 10:50 AM
His first stint with the Cavs they didnít have a contending caliber team around him. The players around him were mediocre at best.

His first season in LA was his first real injury causing him to miss significant time. You canít control injuries.


And somewhere in between there the spurs and warriors happened.

Even with a super team a lot of things have to align and you need some luck. I donít think anyoneís ever been gifted a championship. Itís extremely hard to win it all hence why nearly half the league has never won.

This is the answer I was looking for. Not one player can just go out there and gift whoever he wants a championship. Itís pure disrespect when I see someone say he gifted Miami or Wade 2 rings because:

1.Miami built the team around the big 3
2.Wade and Bosh played huge roles
3.LeBron won 2 championships in 4 years in Miami, thatís the most success heís had with anytime by far and he did it in a 4th of the time heís been in the NBA. They needed each other but before Miami LeBron had no success.

SteBO
07-17-2019, 11:01 AM
It usually only comes from LeBron stans trying to prop up LeBron, or Wade haters trying to diminish Wade's impact. There's no other reason to say he 'gifted' Miami 2 championships. Agendas are agendas.

He'd certainly have another ring or two if it wasn't for Golden State.
Yup. The Heat have a been a good to great franchise for decades. Put an all-time great like LeBron on it, and you have what you have....should've been a three-peat if you look at it on a surface level, but who knows if LeBron allows the Heat to actually coach him into playing inside more had they beat the Mavs in 2011. Without it, I can't guarantee we win the following year, or the year after.

Winning 'ships are just hard man. Had Ray Allen missed that 3, who knows how LBJ would be viewed.

IndyRealist
07-17-2019, 11:08 AM
1. It takes more than one person to win a championship, no matter how good they are.

2. Teams invariably give Lebron decsion making power over the roster, and Lebron is terrible at roster building. If they don't (like Miami), he leaves. Lebron sabotages himself.

3. An established player making max money makes it very hard to fill out a roster. Miami needed the big 3 to take less money AND a discounted Ray Allen and Udonis Haslem. Cleveland 2.0 had drafted Irving.

LA gets a pass year one. They weren't supposed to do anything and they traded their entire team away. No matter how much the LA media wants you to believe otherwise, this was always the plan.

Rivera
07-17-2019, 11:17 AM
I think the real question here is

Why didnt Wade gift the HEAT with more championships? :D

NBA all the way
07-17-2019, 11:21 AM
1. It takes more than one person to win a championship, no matter how good they are.

2. Teams invariably give Lebron decsion making power over the roster, and Lebron is terrible at roster building. If they don't (like Miami), he leaves. Lebron sabotages himself.

3. An established player making max money makes it very hard to fill out a roster. Miami needed the big 3 to take less money AND a discounted Ray Allen and Udonis Haslem. Cleveland 2.0 had drafted Irving.

LA gets a pass year one. They weren't supposed to do anything and they traded their entire team away. No matter how much the LA media wants you to believe otherwise, this was always the plan.
Number 2 is also why all he can do is envy teams like the Spurs and Warriors and their systems.

I don't think LeBron has ever really wanted to play for an All-Time great coach, as much as he admires their systems and style.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 11:30 AM
I think the real question here is

Why didnt Wade gift the HEAT with more championships? :D

Thatís been explained in the thread brother but without him itís safe to say they have 0 so he did his part.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 11:32 AM
1. It takes more than one person to win a championship, no matter how good they are.

2. Teams invariably give Lebron decsion making power over the roster, and Lebron is terrible at roster building. If they don't (like Miami), he leaves. Lebron sabotages himself.

3. An established player making max money makes it very hard to fill out a roster. Miami needed the big 3 to take less money AND a discounted Ray Allen and Udonis Haslem. Cleveland 2.0 had drafted Irving.

LA gets a pass year one. They weren't supposed to do anything and they traded their entire team away. No matter how much the LA media wants you to believe otherwise, this was always the plan.

He shouldíve stayed. Having an organization that wouldnít let him build the roster and coaching staff was the best thing thatís ever happened to him in the nba.

Rivera
07-17-2019, 11:43 AM
Thatís been explained in the thread brother but without him itís safe to say they have 0 so he did his part.

but with the amount of jerseys he gifted exchanged last season, he should have tried to come close and exchange it for some more HEAT championships :D

ewing
07-17-2019, 11:59 AM
It usually only comes from LeBron stans trying to prop up LeBron, or Wade haters trying to diminish Wade's impact. There's no other reason to say he 'gifted' Miami 2 championships. Agendas are agendas.

He'd certainly have another ring or two if it wasn't for Golden State.

Or if he was better at basketball

blams
07-17-2019, 12:09 PM
It usually only comes from LeBron stans trying to prop up LeBron, or Wade haters trying to diminish Wade's impact. There's no other reason to say he 'gifted' Miami 2 championships. Agendas are agendas.

He'd certainly have another ring or two if it wasn't for Golden State.


He'd have 2 more rings without a doubt, if KD didn't decide to join the 73-9 Warriors lol

In fact, Cleveland would have won last year IMO if he hadn't left the Cavs. He would have propelled them to the finals, again. The KDless warriors wouldn't have beaten him.

cmellofan15
07-17-2019, 01:07 PM
The whole narrative here is off, and your motives are fairly clear. But I'll bite....

In LeBron's first free agency, regardless of team, wherever he landed would have been instant contenders. In the first move of the player empowerment era he decided to go to Miami and boost them into contention with Bosh.

(Also, I have a feeling here you're going to try to credit wade with recruitment. That's not the case, LeBron doesn't work that way, as we've seen time and time again. )

This was the GIFT. He didn't have to choose Miami. He could have went to Chicago, or NY or anywhere that had the cap, especially considering the pay cuts he and Both took. The Miami franchise should be grateful they got Bron to wear a Heat jersey. We've seen fans leave playoff games because of traffic. We've seen them lowball their legend in contract negotiations, pushing him out to Chicago. We've heard the stories of the **** they said to LeBron when he was considering leaving. That's why LeBron was a gift.

Also, let's not act like the Miami FO was somehow controlling LeBron and not giving into his demands. They were as spineless as the Cavs, signing his buddies and drafting guys who he liked :laugh2:

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 01:22 PM
The whole narrative here is off, and your motives are fairly clear. But I'll bite....

In LeBron's first free agency, regardless of team, wherever he landed would have been instant contenders. In the first move of the player empowerment era he decided to go to Miami and boost them into contention with Bosh.

(Also, I have a feeling here you're going to try to credit wade with recruitment. That's not the case, LeBron doesn't work that way, as we've seen time and time again. )

This was the GIFT. He didn't have to choose Miami. He could have went to Chicago, or NY or anywhere that had the cap, especially considering the pay cuts he and Both took. The Miami franchise should be grateful they got Bron to wear a Heat jersey. We've seen fans leave playoff games because of traffic. We've seen them lowball their legend in contract negotiations, pushing him out to Chicago. We've heard the stories of the **** they said to LeBron when he was considering leaving. That's why LeBron was a gift.

Also, let's not act like the Miami FO was somehow controlling LeBron and not giving into his demands. They were as spineless as the Cavs, signing his buddies and drafting guys who he liked :laugh2:

Wade recruited them and if LeBron doesnít come then thatís fine. Him and wade already decided they were teaming up so they wouldíve went to Chicago together or if they decided against it Wade and Bosh couldíve brought in someone else with them.

They drafted Napier who LeBron liked in 2014 in the last effort to keep him but other than that they were not spineless and ran by LeBron like the Cavs and now Lakers. LeBron wanted Spo fires, Riley said no. LeBron didnít want to play in the post, Riley said too bad thatís where youíre best at so Spo is playing you there. Battier Ray Miller birdman.....all Riley signings. Did they talk to the big 3 and get opinions? Absolutely but the front office were the ones making the decisions and having the final say in everything and thatís literally not debatable.

And donít act like LeBron wouldíve just taken Bosh elsewhere, it was Wade and LeBron going to Miami or Chicago until they were told Miami could bring a 3rd guy in so they recruited Bosh. Bosh wasnít in the equation until then.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 01:23 PM
The fact of the matter is, the biggest mistake of LeBrons career was leaving Miami. Pau who was still an all star and Dragic coming off 3rd team all nba recently were coming.

Dragic
Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Pau

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 01:44 PM
Isn't the answer obvious? Because another, better super team came along that not even Lebron could surpass in the Warriors. Lebron joining Wade and Bosh in Miami felt unprecedented at the time (although it wasn't necessarily if you look at other great teams historically)óyou had the best player in the league joining a rival and another top 5 player and bringing in another top 15 guy all on the same team in the same offseason.

Talent-wise, nobody could come close to matching that Miami team at the time. Frankly, if it wasn't for that surprising collapse against Dallas and Wade's rapid decline around the time of their third year together, that Heat team probably wins even more titles. But then the Warriors came along and, frankly, were just a more imposing version of what that Heat team accomplished. Durant joined an already historically great basketball team. Barring some sort of freakish super team where multiple guys were taking massive discounts, there wasn't a team out there Lebron could have joined to surpass that Warriors squad from a sheer talent standpoint. And I think bringing a title to Cleveland and reclaiming his public image and legacy was more important after his stint with the Heat than necessarily winning the most rings possible.

People who say Lebron "gifted the Heat two tiles" (myself included) are mostly just trolling Heat fans. But they're not really wrong either. If Lebron hadn't joined Wade and Bosh in Miami, the Heat are almost certainly still sitting at that one championship. And in 2010, he probably could have teamed up with half a dozen stars around the league and brought them a title or two. What if he had convinced Wade to join him in Chicago instead? The outcome is probably the same with 1-2 titles and him eventually going to back to Cleveland.

SteBO
07-17-2019, 01:45 PM
The whole narrative here is off, and your motives are fairly clear. But I'll bite....

In LeBron's first free agency, regardless of team, wherever he landed would have been instant contenders. In the first move of the player empowerment era he decided to go to Miami and boost them into contention with Bosh.

(Also, I have a feeling here you're going to try to credit wade with recruitment. That's not the case, LeBron doesn't work that way, as we've seen time and time again. )

This was the GIFT. He didn't have to choose Miami. He could have went to Chicago, or NY or anywhere that had the cap, especially considering the pay cuts he and Both took. The Miami franchise should be grateful they got Bron to wear a Heat jersey. We've seen fans leave playoff games because of traffic. We've seen them lowball their legend in contract negotiations, pushing him out to Chicago. We've heard the stories of the **** they said to LeBron when he was considering leaving. That's why LeBron was a gift.

Also, let's not act like the Miami FO was somehow controlling LeBron and not giving into his demands. They were as spineless as the Cavs, signing his buddies and drafting guys who he liked :laugh2:
You're really reaching here. Every franchise should be grateful to have LeBron where their jersey by your standards, but there are obvious reasons why LeBron had his best individual seasons (barring a couple in CLE after he left) and his most success in Miami. Your dismissals don't change that fact.

And yes, Wade's recruitment played a role and no, Miami didn't sign his buddies.....unless you have inside knowledge of all the great times he had with Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Chris Andersen, Norris Cole, Ronny Turiaf, & Juwan Howard prior to his arrival. :laugh2:

Anywho carry on.....

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 01:53 PM
The fact of the matter is, the biggest mistake of LeBrons career was leaving Miami. Pau who was still an all star and Dragic coming off 3rd team all nba recently were coming.

Dragic
Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Pau

Umm... No.

You're forgetting two pretty massive issues with that core:
1. Bosh only played two more injury-plagued seasons after the core trio broke up, missing huge chunks of both seasons, and his career was ended after the blood clot discovery. The Heat are still recovering from this and it would have been a huge blow to Lebron's title chances.
2. Wade was simply not the same guy anymore by the time Lebron left. His decline is a huge reason they couldn't repeat in their fourth season together, and that decline continued after Lebron left. He was no longer a legitimate No. 2 on a championship teamófrankly he was a weak No. 3 at that point.

If I had to bet the over/under on how many titles Lebron would have won with the heat had he stayed at 0.5, I would take the under pretty easily. The 14-15 season was the start of the Warriors' dominance league-wide, and if the Heat couldn't beat an aging Spurs team, there's not a chance in hell they would have beaten the Warriors.

On top of that, Lebron didn't just win one more titleóhe won that title with his hometown team and the team that drafted him and single-handedly ended the drought of championships to a city that has been the joke of the sports world for the better part of a century. I'd argue that Lebron beating the Warriors as the underdog with the Cavs did more for his legacy than both of his other titles with Miami did combined. Frankly, it's probably the single most impressive feat on his resume when he retires.

Staying in Miami not only would have been a mistake in the moment. It would have been a huge mistake at the end of this career he would have regretted. Going back to Cleveland was 100% the right move.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 01:55 PM
You're really reaching here. Every franchise should be grateful to have LeBron where their jersey by your standards, but there are obvious reasons why LeBron had his best individual seasons (barring a couple in CLE after he left) and his most success in Miami. Your dismissals don't change that fact.

And yes, Wade's recruitment played a role and no, Miami didn't sign his buddies.....unless you have inside knowledge of all the great times he had with Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Chris Andersen, Norris Cole, Ronny Turiaf, & Juwan Howard prior to his arrival. :laugh2:

Definitely reaching and so much wrong in his post lol.

Iíll say it again, LeBrons biggest mistake is leaving Miami. They taught him what I took to be a champion (LeBron said himself that Wade did this so good luck deflecting) and his peak years were in Miami. Miami LeBron is the best LeBron weíve ever seen. Elite on both sides of the ball. He left the best organization he ever played for and has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it.

RowBTrice
07-17-2019, 01:55 PM
Here's a hot take.....Miami would of still won 2 titles with just bron and bosh and no wade.

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 01:58 PM
Here's a hot take.....Miami would of still won 2 titles with just bron and bosh and no wade.

Edit: Just realized I misread this post. I'm actually not 100% in disagreement with this. Wade was not the same guy in that second title run with Lebron. If you replaced him with another competent scoring threat, it's not impossible they still win that second title that season.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 01:59 PM
Umm... No.

You're forgetting two pretty massive issues with that core:
1. Bosh only played two more injury-plagued seasons after the core trio broke up, missing huge chunks of both seasons, and his career was ended after the blood clot discovery. The Heat are still recovering from this and it would have been a huge blow to Lebron's title chances.
2. Wade was simply not the same guy anymore by the time Lebron left. His decline is a huge reason they couldn't repeat in their fourth season together, and that decline continued after Lebron left. He was no longer a legitimate No. 2 on a championship teamófrankly he was a weak No. 3 at that point.

If I had to bet the over/under on how many titles Lebron would have won with the heat had he stayed at 0.5, I would take the under pretty easily. The 14-15 season was the start of the Warriors' dominance league-wide, and if the Heat couldn't beat an aging Spurs team, there's not a chance in hell they would have beaten the Warriors.

On top of that, Lebron didn't just win one more titleóhe won that title with his hometown team and the team that drafted him and single-handedly ended the drought of championships to a city that has been the joke of the sports world for the better part of a century. I'd argue that Lebron beating the Warriors as the underdog with the Cavs did more for his legacy than both of his other titles with Miami did combined. Frankly, it's probably the single most impressive feat on his resume when he retires.

Staying in Miami not only would have been a mistake in the moment. It would have been a huge mistake at the end of this career he would have regretted. Going back to Cleveland was 100% the right move.

1. They wouldíve found a suitable replacement and already wouldíve had Pau soooo.....

2. He carried them 1 game from the ECF with no Bosh or Whiteside in 2016 so he was definitely capable. He switched his trainer the summer of 2014 and had a resurgence physically following it.

So LeBron with no Kyrie or Love with that garbage supporting cast pushed the Warriors to 6 but wade LeBron Pau Dragic Whiteside etc couldnít?

Iíll agree with that, itís the greatest finals performance ever.

Thatís your opinion and thatís fine but he has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it when he was winning in Miami at a much higher rate.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 02:01 PM
Here's a hot take.....Miami would of still won 2 titles with just bron and bosh and no wade.

Hereís some takes, swap LeBron with Kobe and they win at least the same amount of rings at worst and they win 2011 for sure. With no Wade LeBron and Bosh to Miami never happen.

PSDs biggest hater/most negative poster has returned, good to see you!

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 02:02 PM
Definitely reaching and so much wrong in his post lol.

Iíll say it again, LeBrons biggest mistake is leaving Miami. They taught him what I took to be a champion (LeBron said himself that Wade did this so good luck deflecting) and his peak years were in Miami. Miami LeBron is the best LeBron weíve ever seen. Elite on both sides of the ball. He left the best organization he ever played for and has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it.

I love how you're lumping in the seven years prior to his Miami stint like those should count and completely dismissing how unlikely it is that he wins another title in Miami if he'd stayed. Seriously, dude, you've become kind of a caricature of yourself this summerósuch a blatantly shameless homer that having conversations about the Heat with you are just completely pointless.

Giannis94
07-17-2019, 02:04 PM
This thread is idiotic. LeGm tried. And failed. He was the GM of that cavs team and all of the guys he wanted resulted in a dumpster fire.

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 02:10 PM
1. They wouldíve found a suitable replacement and already wouldíve had Pau soooo....
How would they have afforded all four guys? Also, that window with Pau as an All-Star would have lasted only two more seasons. The Cavs won one title in that window. Is it that likely that the Heat win more than one title in those two years? Noóit's really, really not.


2. He carried them 1 game from the ECF with no Bosh or Whiteside in 2016 so he was definitely capable. He switched his trainer the summer of 2014 and had a resurgence physically following it.
:violin: His prime was done. His superstardom on the court was over. Get over it.


So LeBron with no Kyrie or Love with that garbage supporting cast pushed the Warriors to 6 but wade LeBron Pau Dragic Whiteside etc couldnít?
Bosh wasn't even playing at that point. Dragic and Pau weren't necessarily locks to join the team, and I'm not sure how Miami would have found the money for them. And Whiteside was still a baby at that point. You're basing this on a hypothetical roster that never existed and wasn't especially likely to exist.


Iíll agree with that, itís the greatest finals performance ever.

Then why are you disagreeing with me? If you agree that title is the single greatest feather in his cap, why should he have stayed in Miami? What would he have accomplished staying with the Heat that he didn't accomplish by coming back to Cleveland?


Thatís your opinion and thatís fine but he has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it when he was winning in Miami at a much higher rate.
See my previous post on this, but this stat is a horrible one. If your take is that Lebron should have stayed in Miami, then the first seven years of his career are completely irrelevant. We should only be looking at the last five. And the likelihood that he would have won more rings in Miami in those five years than if he had stayed is EXTREMELY low. But I'm talking to a massive homer, so...

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 02:12 PM
This thread is idiotic. LeGm tried. And failed. He was the GM of that cavs team and all of the guys he wanted resulted in a dumpster fire.

Did he? He won a ring with Cleveland in the era of one of the single most dominant teams in the history of the league. Considering what he was facing, I'd call that a pretty sound success.

I'd agree that the Cavs made some really poor choices in terms of contracts that Lebron undoubtedly help those players get, but in the end it's hard to argue with the resultsóone of the single most impressive/important titles in the history of the league.

Giannis94
07-17-2019, 02:15 PM
Did he? He won a ring with Cleveland in the era of one of the single most dominant teams in the history of the league. Considering what he was facing, I'd call that a pretty sound success.

I'd agree that the Cavs made some really poor choices in terms of contracts that Lebron undoubtedly help those players get, but in the end it's hard to argue with the resultsóone of the single most impressive/important titles in the history of the league.

That title was impressive, yes. but I can't help but to think that a few were left on the table by bron being GM and hindering their ability to win a few more

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 02:19 PM
I love how you're lumping in the seven years prior to his Miami stint like those should count and completely dismissing how unlikely it is that he wins another title in Miami if he'd stayed. Seriously, dude, you've become kind of a caricature of yourself this summerósuch a blatantly shameless homer that having conversations about the Heat with you are just completely pointless.

It wasnít unlikely Pat Riley gets **** done. He had Pau Dragic and Whiteside coming in the following year when Whiteside actually cared. I know you donít understand what a championship team looks like but they win in 2015 with that team if LeBron by himself to the warriors to 6. Not to even mention the massive amount of championship experience that team had compared to the warriors. Also ray stays.

Dade County
07-17-2019, 02:21 PM
I heard reports from major media outlets, that his 1 ring in Cleveland, is wroth more then the two championships in Miami.

So I was under the impression he only has one ring. So I am a bit confused from this thread topic.

The man only has one ring (that the haters acknowledge) I really don't believe he should be getting so much attention from the haters or media, if they truly believe their nonsense.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 02:24 PM
How would they have afforded all four guys? Also, that window with Pau as an All-Star would have lasted only two more seasons. The Cavs won one title in that window. Is it that likely that the Heat win more than one title in those two years? Noóit's really, really not.


:violin: His prime was done. His superstardom on the court was over. Get over it.


Bosh wasn't even playing at that point. Dragic and Pau weren't necessarily locks to join the team, and I'm not sure how Miami would have found the money for them. And Whiteside was still a baby at that point. You're basing this on a hypothetical roster that never existed and wasn't especially likely to exist.


Then why are you disagreeing with me? If you agree that title is the single greatest feather in his cap, why should he have stayed in Miami? What would he have accomplished staying with the Heat that he didn't accomplish by coming back to Cleveland?


See my previous post on this, but this stat is a horrible one. If your take is that Lebron should have stayed in Miami, then the first seven years of his career are completely irrelevant. We should only be looking at the last five. And the likelihood that he would have won more rings in Miami in those five years than if he had stayed is EXTREMELY low. But I'm talking to a massive homer, so...

Pau was coming for the MLE. Ok youíre forgetting Pat Riley wouldíve made moves after that to get guys in, thatís what he does. You keep acting like every team is just a finished product like you do with the current heat. They got jimmy and now you think thatís the team for the next 4 years. Thatís not how things work.

His prime was done, he was still a good player and a top 10 player and most clutch player in the 2016 playoffs up until the point he was eliminated and all numbers back this. Even LeBron said after the 2018 finals ďI wish I wouldíve had Wade for these finals it would e been different.Ē

I didnít say Bosh. Pau was 100% coming Dragic was traded for and Whiteside was like 25 so not a baby. He was the perfect big for that team.

Iím disagreeing because he couldíve won more in Miami. In the goat debate the total matters more.

Takes one to know one brother, keep taking Ls though.

RowBTrice
07-17-2019, 02:28 PM
Hereís some takes, swap LeBron with Kobe and they win at least the same amount of rings at worst and they win 2011 for sure. With no Wade LeBron and Bosh to Miami never happen.

PSDs biggest hater/most negative poster has returned, good to see you!

Always a pleasure, but that is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge stretch my man. I'm not even close. lol

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 02:33 PM
Oh actually iirc it was Pau and Ariza coming for the 2 exceptions we had not just Pau.

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 02:44 PM
Pau was coming for the MLE. Ok youíre forgetting Pat Riley wouldíve made moves after that to get guys in, thatís what he does. You keep acting like every team is just a finished product like you do with the current heat. They got jimmy and now you think thatís the team for the next 4 years. Thatís not how things work.
How's that going so far? I keep waiting for those Westbrook and Beal trades to get announced by Woj... :eyebrow:


His prime was done, he was still a good player and a top 10 player and most clutch player in the 2016 playoffs up until the point he was eliminated and all numbers back this. Even LeBron said after the 2018 finals ďI wish I wouldíve had Wade for these finals it would e been different.Ē
Wade was unquestionably not a top 10 player in 2016. The fact that you think that is a little alarming. Hell, he stopped being a top 10 player in the 2012-13 season.


I didnít say Bosh. Pau was 100% coming Dragic was traded for and Whiteside was like 25 so not a baby. He was the perfect big for that team.
That was Whiteside's first relevant season in the NBAóso yes, he was a baby. Also, he would likely have been playing behind Pau in your scenario, so it's not like he's getting a ton of minutes on this nonexistent hypothetical team. Also, Dragic is a fine player and a guy I've always really liked. But he was never a top 25 guy, and his skillset would have been pretty dramatically limited on the same roster as Lebron and Wade.


Iím disagreeing because he couldíve won more in Miami. In the goat debate the total matters more.
Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Hell no. Again, Bosh would not have been healthy for either title run. Pau was not on the team at the time. Wade was no longer the same guy. And the Warriors were a dominant basketball team at that point. Maybe they luck out and win one more title togetheróbut I wouldn't even put money on that.


Takes one to know one brother, keep taking Ls though.
You're not capable of delivering an "L" to me, chief, and never have been. You should probably steer clear of legitimate NBA historical discussions that you're not really capable of having and stick to what you know: making absurd predictions that don't come true based on the alleged sources you don't actually have and boasting about this amazing basketball career you supposedly participated in that never really existed.

Rivera
07-17-2019, 03:49 PM
Always a pleasure, but that is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge stretch my man. I'm not even close. lol

nah, I can vouch for RowB, Wade. Hes reasonable and not as negative as other posters. He keeps it a buck

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 03:52 PM
How's that going so far? I keep waiting for those Westbrook and Beal trades to get announced by Woj... :eyebrow:


Wade was unquestionably not a top 10 player in 2016. The fact that you think that is a little alarming. Hell, he stopped being a top 10 player in the 2012-13 season.


That was Whiteside's first relevant season in the NBAóso yes, he was a baby. Also, he would likely have been playing behind Pau in your scenario, so it's not like he's getting a ton of minutes on this nonexistent hypothetical team. Also, Dragic is a fine player and a guy I've always really liked. But he was never a top 25 guy, and his skillset would have been pretty dramatically limited on the same roster as Lebron and Wade.


Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Hell no. Again, Bosh would not have been healthy for either title run. Pau was not on the team at the time. Wade was no longer the same guy. And the Warriors were a dominant basketball team at that point. Maybe they luck out and win one more title togetheróbut I wouldn't even put money on that.


You're not capable of delivering an "L" to me, chief, and never have been. You should probably steer clear of legitimate NBA historical discussions that you're not really capable of having and stick to what you know: making absurd predictions that don't come true based on the alleged sources you don't actually have and boasting about this amazing basketball career you supposedly participated in that never really existed.

Miami wasnít going to give picks like a desperate organization in Houston. Beal is still available and theyíre talking and will continue talking unless Beal signs an extension.

Top 10 player and most clutch player in the playoffs up until the point they were eliminated....:IN THE PLAYOFFS

Whiteside slides in when Bosh goes down. The support cast is far better, youre grasping for straws. Itís sad.

You and Houston are both full of Ls. Hate to see it. Yea thatís hilarious coming from a guy the size of this new bagel boss guy whoís somehow a celebrity now. Steer clear of me little guy, you canít keep up.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 03:54 PM
nah, I can vouch for RowB, Wade. Hes reasonable and not as negative as other posters. He keeps it a buck

I can definitely vouch for the opposite lol. It got to the point where I had to ask him what was wrong or what was going on in his life to make him act like that and he opened up to me a little! RowB is nice deep down but sometimes he has trouble showing it.

Rivera
07-17-2019, 03:58 PM
I can definitely vouch for the opposite lol. It got to the point where I had to ask him what was wrong or what was going on in his life to make him act like that and he opened up to me a little! RowB is nice deep down but sometimes he has trouble showing it.

:laugh:

My bro stands by his word! Thats why I love RowB! Hes not as bad as other posters, he backs up what he says, even if you disagree with him. RowB is one of the good ones bro!

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 04:09 PM
:laugh:

My bro stands by his word! Thats why I love RowB! Hes not as bad as other posters, he backs up what he says, even if you disagree with him. RowB is one of the good ones bro!

I got respeck for him! I lost respeck for MBT because ever since we snatched Jimmy from his soul heís been trying to come at my neck for it. Donít be mad at me MBT be mad at Wade and Pat Riley!

Rivera
07-17-2019, 04:44 PM
I got respeck for him! I lost respeck for MBT because ever since we snatched Jimmy from his soul heís been trying to come at my neck for it. Donít be mad at me MBT be mad at Wade and Pat Riley!

i cant with you :laugh:

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 04:48 PM
Miami wasnít going to give picks like a desperate organization in Houston. Beal is still available and theyíre talking and will continue talking unless Beal signs an extension.
Talk to me when it happens. Until then, I'll take your "sources" with a pretty huge grain of salt.


Top 10 player and most clutch player in the playoffs up until the point they were eliminated....:IN THE PLAYOFFS
Cool. So he played well in a 14-game sample size. Great for him. But ultimately the Heat still fell in the second round, and Wade was still not a top 10 player.


Whiteside slides in when Bosh goes down. The support cast is far better, youre grasping for straws. Itís sad.
No dude. You are. You're trying to convince people that Lebron should have stayed in Miami based on a hypothetical roster that didn't exist and championships they didn't win over a guy who ACTUALLY won a title in one of the most impressive finals runs we've seen in league history. I can assure you the vast majority of posters will not agree with you.

In fact, just for funsies, I might just have to post a poll in the forum...


You and Houston are both full of Ls. Hate to see it. Yea thatís hilarious coming from a guy the size of this new bagel boss guy whoís somehow a celebrity now. Steer clear of me little guy, you canít keep up.
No clue who you're referring to or where this reference is coming from. But you believe whatever you want to believe, buddy. I've honestly wasted way too much time feeding the trolls today... Just know that for all this trash talk this summer, I'm going to REALLY be paying attention to the Heat this season. I hope you're willing to eat some crow, because I'll have plenty of plates ready for you if the Heat are as mediocre as I think they're going to be.

mightybosstone
07-17-2019, 04:52 PM
I got respeck for him! I lost respeck for MBT because ever since we snatched Jimmy from his soul heís been trying to come at my neck for it. Donít be mad at me MBT be mad at Wade and Pat Riley!

I've honestly moved on from the Butler thing. I learned a long time ago not to let free agency decisions dictate my mood for more than a day or two. Guys are going to go where they goóI have no control over that. I'm coming at you because your takes have been next-level awful the last few weeks and you're flooding the NBA forum with your ******** "sources" on trades that aren't going to happen and overwhelmingly homer takes on the Heat that nobody outside of Miami agrees with or cares anything about.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 04:54 PM
Talk to me when it happens. Until then, I'll take your "sources" with a pretty huge grain of salt.


Cool. So he played well in a 14-game sample size. Great for him. But ultimately the Heat still fell in the second round, and Wade was still not a top 10 player.


No dude. You are. You're trying to convince people that Lebron should have stayed in Miami based on a hypothetical roster that didn't exist and championships they didn't win over a guy who ACTUALLY won a title in one of the most impressive finals runs we've seen in league history. I can assure you the vast majority of posters will not agree with you.

In fact, just for funsies, I might just have to post a poll in the forum...


No clue who you're referring to or where this reference is coming from. But you believe whatever you want to believe, buddy. I've honestly wasted way too much time feeding the trolls today... Just know that for all this trash talk this summer, I'm going to REALLY be paying attention to the Heat this season. I hope you're willing to eat some crow, because I'll have plenty of plates ready for you if the Heat are as mediocre as I think they're going to be.

I hope youíre ready.

Saddletramp
07-17-2019, 05:10 PM
Almost gave up on this idiot thread until MBT came in with some ***** slaps and made it a little entertaining.

I love how Riley makes moves to get it done expect for all those years that he doesnít.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 05:54 PM
Almost gave up on this idiot thread until MBT came in with some ***** slaps and made it a little entertaining.

I love how Riley makes moves to get it done expect for all those years that he doesnít.

Unite baby!!!!

RowBTrice
07-17-2019, 05:56 PM
I can definitely vouch for the opposite lol. It got to the point where I had to ask him what was wrong or what was going on in his life to make him act like that and he opened up to me a little! RowB is nice deep down but sometimes he has trouble showing it.

Those are a couple of the oddest things I think I've ever heard someone say about me. I'll try harder with you Wade. Nothing is personal.


:laugh:

My bro stands by his word! Thats why I love RowB! Hes not as bad as other posters, he backs up what he says, even if you disagree with him. RowB is one of the good ones bro!


Good lookin out, Riv. Appreciate that! You too my man!

YAALREADYKNO
07-17-2019, 06:11 PM
Might have another one if JR Smith had half a brain

Mightíve had another one in 2011 too but we all saw what happened to Lebron

JAZZNC
07-17-2019, 06:49 PM
Or if he was better at basketball

Man, I love ya and enjoy most all of your basketball takes but damn how can you say an unquestioned top 5 player should be better?

JAZZNC
07-17-2019, 06:50 PM
I've honestly moved on from the Butler thing. I learned a long time ago not to let free agency decisions dictate my mood for more than a day or two. Guys are going to go where they goóI have no control over that. I'm coming at you because your takes have been next-level awful the last few weeks and you're flooding the NBA forum with your ******** "sources" on trades that aren't going to happen and overwhelmingly homer takes on the Heat that nobody outside of Miami agrees with or cares anything about.

This.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 06:56 PM
This.

The Jazz and Rockets franchises mediocrity has brought you all together, love to see it!

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 06:56 PM
Those are a couple of the oddest things I think I've ever heard someone say about me. I'll try harder with you Wade. Nothing is personal.




Good lookin out, Riv. Appreciate that! You too my man!

I love you

Scoots
07-17-2019, 10:49 PM
Just feel the need to point out that it's always possible to not feed a troll.

LaVar Ball
07-17-2019, 11:25 PM
This is a topic Iím curious on and would like to get some answers about. So many times as a Heat and Wade fan, and Iím sure other Heat fans can back this as well, we hear about how LeBron gifted Miami 2 rings or LeBron gifted Wade 2 rings. Iím just wondering.....if this is the case why doesnít he gift himself more rings? Why wouldnít he gift his hometown of Cleveland more rings than a city that previously didnít mean much to him in Miami? Why didnít he gift himself 1 in LA so he could win at least 1 with 3 different teams before Kawhi does. I mean if he can just gift rings whenever he wants why hasnít he won every year? I mean if this was the case he couldíve ended the GOAT debate 8 years ago and we wouldnít be hearing about it anymore and he would be sitting a top the basketball world on his own level with nobody even close to him.

Miami: 4 years and 2 championships
Cleveland: 11 years and 1 championship
LA: 1 year and 0 playoff appearances

LeBron is in my top 5 players of all time, probably top 3 but Iím legit curious.....if this is the case, why doesnít he gift himself more championships?

Gift me soommmeeeee










Tittays!

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 11:33 PM
Just feel the need to point out that it's always possible to not feed a troll.

Youíre literally a mod who trolls though, I donít understand it.

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 11:34 PM
So then we can all agree that LeBron canít just gift teams rings or be would have 16 right now right? Thatís the point being made here. Every ring heís won has been collective.

TylerSL
07-18-2019, 12:36 AM
This is a topic Iím curious on and would like to get some answers about. So many times as a Heat and Wade fan, and Iím sure other Heat fans can back this as well, we hear about how LeBron gifted Miami 2 rings or LeBron gifted Wade 2 rings. Iím just wondering.....if this is the case why doesnít he gift himself more rings? Why wouldnít he gift his hometown of Cleveland more rings than a city that previously didnít mean much to him in Miami? Why didnít he gift himself 1 in LA so he could win at least 1 with 3 different teams before Kawhi does. I mean if he can just gift rings whenever he wants why hasnít he won every year? I mean if this was the case he couldíve ended the GOAT debate 8 years ago and we wouldnít be hearing about it anymore and he would be sitting a top the basketball world on his own level with nobody even close to him.

Miami: 4 years and 2 championships
Cleveland: 11 years and 1 championship
LA: 1 year and 0 playoff appearances

LeBron is in my top 5 players of all time, probably top 3 but Iím legit curious.....if this is the case, why doesnít he gift himself more championships?

Lebron doesn't have more championships because he's usually on the weaker team, and he's honestly the only reason his team is in the Finals in the first place. Part of that is his fault for spending so much of his career with the Cavs, but of his nine Finals appearances he has only been the favorite twice (2011 and 2013). He lost as the favorite once, 2011, but also won as the underdog twice, 2012 and 2016.

Unless he wins multiple championships with the Lakers, which is possible, he'll probably be remembered as a guy who time and time again carried below average teams much farther than they should have gone. Those below average teams are mostly the Cleveland teams he was on, but even the 2014 Heat were a shell of themselves. The 2011-2013 Heat were the three best teams Lebron's ever been on (through 2019).

YAALREADYKNO
07-18-2019, 01:22 AM
So then we can all agree that LeBron canít just gift teams rings or be would have 16 right now right? Thatís the point being made here. Every ring heís won has been collective.

Everybody needs help. The only ones who think Bron can win all alone are his fanboys who treat every single one of his teammates like scrubs

basch152
07-18-2019, 12:10 PM
this entire post is straw manning the **** out of the reason people say that.

I don't agree with people that say "lebron gifted Miami championships", but they are not AT ALL saying he literally solo won them a championship all by himself and absolutely no one else helped.

you are either being disingenuous and straw manning these people to make them look stupid, or you yourself are just a complete moron and take that as what they're saying.

their argument is that if lebron doesnt go to Miami, they don't have 4 straight title appearances and 2 championships. depending on where lebron went, he likely doesnt get any of that either, but Miami FOR SURE doesnt. so they're saying him going to Miami gifted them championships.

now I don't really agree with their logic, but you just straw manning the **** out of their argument is pathetic and makes you look really bad.

mightybosstone
07-18-2019, 12:18 PM
this entire post is straw manning the **** out of the reason people say that.

I don't agree with people that say "lebron gifted Miami championships", but they are not AT ALL saying he literally solo won them a championship all by himself and absolutely no one else helped.

you are either being disingenuous and straw manning these people to make them look stupid, or you yourself are just a complete moron and take that as what they're saying.

their argument is that if lebron doesnt go to Miami, they don't have 4 straight title appearances and 2 championships. depending on where lebron went, he likely doesnt get any of that either, but Miami FOR SURE doesnt. so they're saying him going to Miami gifted them championships.

now I don't really agree with their logic, but you just straw manning the **** out of their argument is pathetic and makes you look really bad.

:nod: :hi5:

WaDe03
07-18-2019, 12:32 PM
this entire post is straw manning the **** out of the reason people say that.

I don't agree with people that say "lebron gifted Miami championships", but they are not AT ALL saying he literally solo won them a championship all by himself and absolutely no one else helped.

you are either being disingenuous and straw manning these people to make them look stupid, or you yourself are just a complete moron and take that as what they're saying.

their argument is that if lebron doesnt go to Miami, they don't have 4 straight title appearances and 2 championships. depending on where lebron went, he likely doesnt get any of that either, but Miami FOR SURE doesnt. so they're saying him going to Miami gifted them championships.

now I don't really agree with their logic, but you just straw manning the **** out of their argument is pathetic and makes you look really bad.

Itís a dumbass thing to say. LeBron didnít win **** before Miami and thatís a fact. Straw man that

WaDe03
07-18-2019, 12:34 PM
When someone says LeBron gifted them rings theyíre saying LeBron did all the work and thatís a ****ing fact so donít come at me with that ****ing ********. Theyíre giving all credit to LeBron and taking away from his teammates and organization. Get the **** outta here with that.

Max.This
07-18-2019, 12:57 PM
There used to be heavy debates on whether lebron was better or jordan. Many of the pro jordan positions have alluded to the number of championships he won. Lebron probably at some point for his legacy knew that his legacy would come down to championships so he formed a super team in miami to dominate the league= championships. Maybe somewhere along the line he stopped caring about whether or not he'd be remembered as better than jordan/ legacy and hes just doing things that make him and his family happy as long as he can compete

ewing
07-18-2019, 01:27 PM
Man, I love ya and enjoy most all of your basketball takes but damn how can you say an unquestioned top 5 player should be better?

B/c its how he would have one more.

crewfan13
07-18-2019, 01:29 PM
this entire post is straw manning the **** out of the reason people say that.

I don't agree with people that say "lebron gifted Miami championships", but they are not AT ALL saying he literally solo won them a championship all by himself and absolutely no one else helped.

you are either being disingenuous and straw manning these people to make them look stupid, or you yourself are just a complete moron and take that as what they're saying.

their argument is that if lebron doesnt go to Miami, they don't have 4 straight title appearances and 2 championships. depending on where lebron went, he likely doesnt get any of that either, but Miami FOR SURE doesnt. so they're saying him going to Miami gifted them championships.

now I don't really agree with their logic, but you just straw manning the **** out of their argument is pathetic and makes you look really bad.

Exactly. Before Miami, lebron carried some really bad Cleveland teams fairly deep. Before lebron, wade won one with shaq. But without shaq, wade missed the playoffsonce and lost in the first round 3, times until lebron got there. Once lebron left, wade has done about the same with a few 2nd round appearances in weak east.

Lebron continued to make finals without wade and his teams weren't really all that great.

Wade is a great player and was consistently at or near the top 5 players in the league. Miami likely doesn't win any rings without him and with LeBron only. But they still would have been a pretty good team. And if you replace wades salary with decent players, then that team may still go to the finals. Remove lebron and add in decent players for that salary and that team isn't making any finals.

LeBron is the biggest reason they won those rings. People can try to discredit that. It wasn't all lebron, and it never is all 1 guy, but he was the guy that made it all go and the most important guy. That's why he rightfully gets credit.

SteBO
07-18-2019, 01:36 PM
I think people are being intellectually dishonest if they actually think the silly "LeBron gifted Miami 2 titles" narrative is anything but a pathetic attempt to discredit the Heat and troll their fans. Thankfully, I don't give a damn since I can always just flash :win: if I feel like it, but you know.....an honest discourse would be nice for a change.

LeBron makes every team he joins go, and yet Miami's the franchise he's had the most success with in terms of individual stats and titles, and in a much shorter time frame to date (Lakers stint pending). I wonder.....

Chronz
07-18-2019, 02:47 PM
Or if he was better at basketball

Nah, even the best would lose to that team with his support

Saddletramp
07-18-2019, 03:38 PM
this entire post is straw manning the **** out of the reason people say that.

I don't agree with people that say "lebron gifted Miami championships", but they are not AT ALL saying he literally solo won them a championship all by himself and absolutely no one else helped.

you are either being disingenuous and straw manning these people to make them look stupid, or you yourself are just a complete moron and take that as what they're saying.

their argument is that if lebron doesnt go to Miami, they don't have 4 straight title appearances and 2 championships. depending on where lebron went, he likely doesnt get any of that either, but Miami FOR SURE doesnt. so they're saying him going to Miami gifted them championships.

now I don't really agree with their logic, but you just straw manning the **** out of their argument is pathetic and makes you look really bad.

Yep.


Exactly. Before Miami, lebron carried some really bad Cleveland teams fairly deep. Before lebron, wade won one with shaq. But without shaq, wade missed the playoffsonce and lost in the first round 3, times until lebron got there. Once lebron left, wade has done about the same with a few 2nd round appearances in weak east.

Lebron continued to make finals without wade and his teams weren't really all that great.

Wade is a great player and was consistently at or near the top 5 players in the league. Miami likely doesn't win any rings without him and with LeBron only. But they still would have been a pretty good team. And if you replace wades salary with decent players, then that team may still go to the finals. Remove lebron and add in decent players for that salary and that team isn't making any finals.

LeBron is the biggest reason they won those rings. People can try to discredit that. It wasn't all lebron, and it never is all 1 guy, but he was the guy that made it all go and the most important guy. That's why he rightfully gets credit.

And Yep.

We get it, Wade. You really, really like Dywane Wade. You need to understand that nobody cares and making **** threads like this are just downright embarrassing.

WaDe03
07-18-2019, 04:11 PM
Yep.



And Yep.

We get it, Wade. You really, really like Dywane Wade. You need to understand that nobody cares and making **** threads like this are just downright embarrassing.

Unite baby!!!!

Saddletramp
07-18-2019, 06:14 PM
Unite baby!!!!

Apropos to the thread. When Lebron united with Wade, he made Wade relevant again after being a nobody since Shaq left.


Facts.

nastynice
07-18-2019, 06:28 PM
This is a topic Iím curious on and would like to get some answers about. So many times as a Heat and Wade fan, and Iím sure other Heat fans can back this as well, we hear about how LeBron gifted Miami 2 rings or LeBron gifted Wade 2 rings. Iím just wondering.....if this is the case why doesnít he gift himself more rings? Why wouldnít he gift his hometown of Cleveland more rings than a city that previously didnít mean much to him in Miami? Why didnít he gift himself 1 in LA so he could win at least 1 with 3 different teams before Kawhi does. I mean if he can just gift rings whenever he wants why hasnít he won every year? I mean if this was the case he couldíve ended the GOAT debate 8 years ago and we wouldnít be hearing about it anymore and he would be sitting a top the basketball world on his own level with nobody even close to him.

Miami: 4 years and 2 championships
Cleveland: 11 years and 1 championship
LA: 1 year and 0 playoff appearances

LeBron is in my top 5 players of all time, probably top 3 but Iím legit curious.....if this is the case, why doesnít he gift himself more championships?

Because in Miami he didn't have to deal with the warriors :cool:

Saddletramp
07-18-2019, 06:45 PM
Because in Miami he didn't have to deal with the warriors :cool:

Curry wasnít Curry until Kerr showed up and they needed more time to load the team up.

Chronz
07-18-2019, 06:55 PM
you 2 trying to become the next tre v mtm

Switch
07-18-2019, 06:59 PM
LeBron made the Heat team relevant again post Shaq. Miami would have never won those titles with out LeBron. That's a fact. He is why they won. The rest of the team helped.


Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

WaDe03
07-18-2019, 07:50 PM
Apropos to the thread. When Lebron united with Wade, he made Wade relevant again after being a nobody since Shaq left.


Facts.

Youíre trying way too hard.

cmellofan15
07-18-2019, 10:18 PM
You're really reaching here. Every franchise should be grateful to have LeBron where their jersey by your standards, but there are obvious reasons why LeBron had his best individual seasons (barring a couple in CLE after he left) and his most success in Miami. Your dismissals don't change that fact.

umm...no. Cleveland drafted Lebron and Magic actually recruited and met with him. but if you wanna credit Dwyane Wade go ahead. I mean he did help him get his first title by getting out of his way, so he definitely deserves some credit.


And yes, Wade's recruitment played a role and no, Miami didn't sign his buddies.....unless you have inside knowledge of all the great times he had with Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Chris Andersen, Norris Cole, Ronny Turiaf, & Juwan Howard prior to his arrival. :laugh2:

wait, they didn't sign a corpse of Ilgauskas? we're gonna act like he didn't know, the then washed up, Juwan Howard since he was in HS? didn't they sign Eddy Curry who didn't play for AN ENTIRE SEASON who shared the same agent and just tried to recruit him to NY a year prior? They wasted a draft pick on a guy because of a Lebron tweet LMAAAAAOOOO ohhh the backbone of Pat Riley! Only time he showed backbone was pushing the guys who made them relevant out the door.


Anywho carry on.....

basch152
07-18-2019, 10:48 PM
When someone says LeBron gifted them rings theyíre saying LeBron did all the work and thatís a ****ing fact so donít come at me with that ****ing ********. Theyíre giving all credit to LeBron and taking away from his teammates and organization. Get the **** outta here with that.

so you're just a dumbass and actually think that's what they're trying to say. good to know.

WaDe03
07-19-2019, 09:00 AM
so you're just a dumbass and actually think that's what they're trying to say. good to know.

You talk big behind that keyboard.

Rivera
07-19-2019, 10:24 AM
When someone says LeBron gifted them rings theyíre saying LeBron did all the work and thatís a ****ing fact so donít come at me with that ****ing ********. Theyíre giving all credit to LeBron and taking away from his teammates and organization. Get the **** outta here with that.

you know what. a lot of people are going to hate this, not actually read or understand, but I get it and this is kind of true.

There are some that defend LBJ sooo hard that many diminish Kyrie's impact during those finals when Cle won, and poo poo his iconic 3pt shot he made that sealed the game, or TT being an animal on defense/rebound, or KLoves good defense on Currys 3pt shot to try and tie the game.

LBJ gets held to such a high standard (which he should, hes the best player of his generation) that some take it too far and give LBJ all the credit and give his teammates none because LBJ is so great he elevates his teammates.

Which is also a fact, but people take it wayy to far at times.

Like I know some posters dont like Wade, but if you try and understand what he is saying, while also removing bias, you would understand

mightybosstone
07-19-2019, 10:57 AM
you know what. a lot of people are going to hate this, not actually read or understand, but I get it and this is kind of true.

There are some that defend LBJ sooo hard that many diminish Kyrie's impact during those finals when Cle won, and poo poo his iconic 3pt shot he made that sealed the game, or TT being an animal on defense/rebound, or KLoves good defense on Currys 3pt shot to try and tie the game.

LBJ gets held to such a high standard (which he should, hes the best player of his generation) that some take it too far and give LBJ all the credit and give his teammates none because LBJ is so great he elevates his teammates.

Which is also a fact, but people take it wayy to far at times.

Like I know some posters dont like Wade, but if you try and understand what he is saying, while also removing bias, you would understand

I understand that take, and neither side is really wrong on this. A few other posters have already said this, so I won't type a novel here, but saying Lebron "gifted" the Heat two titles is both accurate and misleading at the same time. If Lebron doesn't pick Miami over Cleveland, Chicago, LA, etc. in 2014, the Heat absolutely don't win two titlesóthey probably don't win any over that stretch.

But if he had picked a less talented roster, he might not have won any over that four-year stretch, and the supporting cast of that Heat team 100% deserves some credit. Hell, if Allen doesn't hit that shot in Game 6 against San Antonio, this probably isn't even a conversation worth having because they only would have won the one title.

There are two sides to this coin for sure, and as long as you can see both of them, I think it's OK to lean either way on this discussion.

SportsFanatic10
07-19-2019, 11:01 AM
Lebron did manage to gift Dallas a title in '11.

Rivera
07-19-2019, 11:52 AM
I understand that take, and neither side is really wrong on this. A few other posters have already said this, so I won't type a novel here, but saying Lebron "gifted" the Heat two titles is both accurate and misleading at the same time. If Lebron doesn't pick Miami over Cleveland, Chicago, LA, etc. in 2014, the Heat absolutely don't win two titlesóthey probably don't win any over that stretch.

But if he had picked a less talented roster, he might not have won any over that four-year stretch, and the supporting cast of that Heat team 100% deserves some credit. Hell, if Allen doesn't hit that shot in Game 6 against San Antonio, this probably isn't even a conversation worth having because they only would have won the one title.

There are two sides to this coin for sure, and as long as you can see both of them, I think it's OK to lean either way on this discussion.

agreed

Nunuu
07-19-2019, 11:57 AM
you know what. a lot of people are going to hate this, not actually read or understand, but I get it and this is kind of true.

There are some that defend LBJ sooo hard that many diminish Kyrie's impact during those finals when Cle won, and poo poo his iconic 3pt shot he made that sealed the game, or TT being an animal on defense/rebound, or KLoves good defense on Currys 3pt shot to try and tie the game.

LBJ gets held to such a high standard (which he should, hes the best player of his generation) that some take it too far and give LBJ all the credit and give his teammates none because LBJ is so great he elevates his teammates.

Which is also a fact, but people take it wayy to far at times.

Like I know some posters dont like Wade, but if you try and understand what he is saying, while also removing bias, you would understand

We all get what he is saying, he is just going overboard with it as usual. The fact remains if you take lebron off of either of those teams they dont even make it to the finals. You could remove any other guy and they probably still make the finals.

Rivera
07-19-2019, 12:02 PM
We all get what he is saying, he is just going overboard with it as usual. The fact remains if you take lebron off of either of those teams they dont even make it to the finals. You could remove any other guy and they probably still make the finals.

So you agree with his main point, Lebron "gifts" teams finals appearances :D

Nunuu
07-19-2019, 12:05 PM
So you agree with his main point, Lebron "gifts" teams finals appearances :D

I guess if thats what that means? he drug how many **** teams to the finals in the east? The talent around him on the heat and the cavs later on allowed him to win finally, but he could have got there without them.