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cmellofan15
07-15-2019, 09:03 PM
The activity is dying down, as far as major moves go at least, so let's do a preliminary ranking of how we think teams have done so far this offseason. Feel free to rank teams in the order based on who you believe did better or worse, my rankings are in no particular order.

Winners

Clippers

This team went from having ZERO all-stars to having two All-NBA players, while retaining their defensive bruisers and the reigning 6MOY.

Lakers

They got their guy, Anthony Davis, to pair with Lebron James in a timely fashion. While I'm not a big fan of the Cousins, they picked him up for a bargain, and more importantly they have finally signed a few 3pt shooters! (Danny Green, Caruso, Quinn Cook, kind of Bradley)

New Orleans Pelicans

Winning the lottery was a very nice consolation prize to losing their franchise piece and the Pelicans are taking it in stride. Pairing Hayes and Williamson through the draft will at the very least be amazing entertainment and highlight reel material. We will have to see how the Ingram recovers, but pairing Lonzo and Jrue is scary defensively, and adding JJ and Favors gives the young guys some much needed veteran depth.

Losers

Charlotte Hornets

There was a part of me that was okay with the Hornets letting go of Kemba and blowing it all up due to the financial mess they've found themselves in...but the Terry Rozier signing is in contention for the worst move this offseason. If your plan is to rebuild why offer a bench player almost $20mill/yr?

Washington Wizards

Wow..........I mean I guess it's hard to have a successful offseason when you're burdened with the Wall contract but DAMN. Why draft Rui so high? Why trade for dudes who should be sitting at the end of other teams' benches? The Wizards seem to be following the recipe for a disgruntled NBA star with Beal.

New York Knicks

I didn't really want to include the Knicks, for similar reasons that I didn't want to include the Raptors, Warriors, or anyone who struck out on free agents. If a player doesn't want to go to your team in 2019, it might not be the FO's fault.....but (allegedly) not offering Kevin Durant a max contract when you've planned for this for YEARS is beyond me. Then going and paying three PFs a **** ton of money. They were shafted in the lottery, but still came out with a great piece when they could have botched that as well. But YET AGAIN the Knicks find themselves in a position where they can choose to invest in players or gamble on another multi year free agency plan to land a superstar.

j-bay
07-15-2019, 10:01 PM
The activity is dying down, as far as major moves go at least, so let's do a preliminary ranking of how we think teams have done so far this offseason. Feel free to rank teams in the order based on who you believe did better or worse, my rankings are in no particular order.

Winners

Clippers

This team went from having ZERO all-stars to having two All-NBA players, while retaining their defensive bruisers and the reigning 6MOY.

Lakers

They got their guy, Anthony Davis, to pair with Lebron James in a timely fashion. While I'm not a big fan of the Cousins, they picked him up for a bargain, and more importantly they have finally signed a few 3pt shooters! (Danny Green, Caruso, Quinn Cook, kind of Bradley)

New Orleans Pelicans

Winning the lottery was a very nice consolation prize to losing their franchise piece and the Pelicans are taking it in stride. Pairing Hayes and Williamson through the draft will at the very least be amazing entertainment and highlight reel material. We will have to see how the Ingram recovers, but pairing Lonzo and Jrue is scary defensively, and adding JJ and Favors gives the young guys some much needed veteran depth.

Losers

Charlotte Hornets

There was a part of me that was okay with the Hornets letting go of Kemba and blowing it all up due to the financial mess they've found themselves in...but the Terry Rozier signing is in contention for the worst move this offseason. If your plan is to rebuild why offer a bench player almost $20mill/yr?

Washington Wizards

Wow..........I mean I guess it's hard to have a successful offseason when you're burdened with the Wall contract but DAMN. Why draft Rui so high? Why trade for dudes who should be sitting at the end of other teams' benches? The Wizards seem to be following the recipe for a disgruntled NBA star with Beal.

New York Knicks

I didn't really want to include the Knicks, for similar reasons that I didn't want to include the Raptors, Warriors, or anyone who struck out on free agents. If a player doesn't want to go to your team in 2019, it might not be the FO's fault.....but (allegedly) not offering Kevin Durant a max contract when you've planned for this for YEARS is beyond me. Then going and paying three PFs a **** ton of money. They were shafted in the lottery, but still came out with a great piece when they could have botched that as well. But YET AGAIN the Knicks find themselves in a position where they can choose to invest in players or gamble on another multi year free agency plan to land a superstar.

Are you kidding? Rui looks great so far.

smith&wesson
07-15-2019, 10:43 PM
Toronto - we lost Leonard 😪

Giannis94
07-15-2019, 10:50 PM
Winners:
Okc: Nice job.
Pels: Might have a brighter future than the team they made the trade with
Worriers: They had a better record before KD. I expect that to be the same this time around because wins means everything
Nets: I got a thread locked and multiple infractions a few years ago for posting a thread that the nets would have a brighter future than the knicks. I am right.


Losers:
clippers: Once Kawhi & PG leave in two years the Thunder will have an army chest of top 5 picks. It's a two year window with a coach that many question on here. This is like when they traded the umprotected pick that ended being #1 in the draft 5 times over

The team that shall not be named. $360 m for two players not top 25 in the game as well as an aging. not so much upset about the C as he actually makes an impact in playoff games; but paying him close to 100 mill could backfire.

Rockets: lol wtf you doing.

Celts: 141 m for a pg while losing your best post player. Lets see how this pays off

NBA all the way
07-15-2019, 11:05 PM
I've gotta think the Knicks as one of the biggest losers.

Not bothering with a meeting with KD because of his injury you refused to offer max.

Secondly cancelling the meeting with Kawhi because you thought his decision process would take too long.

You open up 2 max slots then go after zero max players, nonsensical.

Just think if you landed one or both of those guys, that's what the entire reason for the cap was.

None of the 7 guys the signed are even fringe stars, the 2 they passed on meetings with are superstars. Idk, just disappointing to watch play out.

Dade County
07-16-2019, 01:01 AM
I am not a knick fan, but that bogus draft lottery reallyl hurt them.

If they would have gotten the 1st or 2nd pick, and N.O wasn't granted a stimulus package
(again Cp3 leaving and they get AD) by moving up and getting the number 1 pick, Knicks would have been in the position of power going into the draft.

They could have made a trade for AD if they would have gotten the 2nd overall pick. AD ends up with the Knicks, this alone could have made KD talk to Kyrie and say we are heading to the Knicks.

The League really F'ed over the Knicks, but they had their on agenda, by giving the top 2 picks to the lowest grossing companies, so they can have a young star player and create excitement among their fan base.

Zion in N.O is a tragedy to me. Not saying that he isn't going to win and be happy their; because the League isn't going to make the sam mistake twice (Cp3 & AD leaving). It's just that those 4 teams that had the best chances to get the 1st overall pick; Knicks, Cav's Suns & Bulls, the Knicks & Suns could have really benefited from this.

The Suns would have had 2 star headliners, Booker for the offense & Zion for the hustle and heart, and as Zion developed his game, then the Suns could have started to be serious contenders in the near future. Or the Suns could have gotten their pg, they needed in John Morant.

The Bulls also would have had a good young core & we all know how Bulls fans get when they are actually good...smh

The Cav's can just go & sit down some where.

So I cannot give the Knicks a loser tag.

TylerSL
07-16-2019, 07:12 AM
Winners
Clippers-Easily the winners of the offseason. Adding Kawhi AND Paul George not only puts them in direct competition with the Lebron/AD Lakers, but it actually makes them the favorites. The Los Angeles Clippers, by all accounts, are the best team on paper and should be the favorites to win the NBA Championship in June.

Lakers-Kawhi would have been the icing on the cake, but pairing AD with Lebron skyrockets the Lakers past most other teams alone. On top of that though, they put a pretty solid team around them considering most other free agents came off the board while they were waiting on Kawhi.

Nets-Even though Kevin Durant won't play this season, getting Kyrie and Durant to sign legitimizes what the Nets have been building. Having Kyrie and DJ will make them better next year and whet their appetite for when KD debut's. Beating out the Knicks is just icing.

Rockets-Just removing CP3's contract would have been a bit of a win for Houston, but moving CP3's contract to reunite Russell Westbrook with James Harden is fantastic. While both Harden/Westbrook are best with the ball in their hands, both are more than capable of distributing the basketball. I think this pairing will change how the Rockets play a bit, but improve their odds at contention for years to come.

Pelicans-Getting what they got from the Lakers in the AD trade would have been enough to make them winners, but they were also gifted Zion Williamson by winning the lottery. Now the Pelicans have one of the highest ceilings in the NBA, and will likely be better next season than they were a year ago, when they still had AD on the roster.

76ers-Getting Al Horford is an absolutely massive win the Philadelphia. Losing Butler hurts, and Josh Richardson won't produce anything close to what Butler did, but signing Al Horford along with getting Josh Richardson actually makes the 76ers better than they were last year. Philadelphia was a mess when Embiid went to the bench last year, their team stats tanked hard when Embiid was off the floor, but that should no longer be the case now that they have Horford. Ultimately for the 76ers to ever win they are going to have to rely on Simmons/Embiid to continue to improve, but basically turning Butler into Horford/Richardson makes them better.

Jazz-They've really rounded out their team well by getting Conley and Bogdanovic. The difference between Conley and Rubio offensively is night and day. Conley is a solid shooter and should work very well with both Mitchell and Gobert while Bogdanovic gives them something they've lacked in recent years, real floor spacing. For years the Jazz have been starting both Favors/Gobert at PF/C, two players who play underneath the basket, instead of having a stretch 4 or 5. They won't be as long next year, but they should be a lot better offensively and remain strong defensively.

Losers
Raptors-Losing Kawhi kills their chances at championship contention for the foreseeable future. The saving grace for Toronto is we can't foresee very far in the NBA so who knows where they'll be in a few years, but for this off season they're losers. Them winning the championship makes the Kawhi trade worth it, but losing him in free agency still makes them losers. They still have a bright future, but you can't lose a player like Kawhi for nothing in the offseason and come out as anything but an offseason loser.

Knicks-All their grandiose plans, once again, spectacularly blew up in their faces. They dreamed big about instantly creating a big 3 of Zion and 2 max free agents, they even traded Kristaps Porzingis to create the necessary cap. But not only did they miss out on Zion when they lost the lottery, they were so pathetically rejected by every superstar free agent (besides Kawhi) that they went ahead and cancelled the meeting with Kawhi knowing they had no shot. Their GM apologized to the fans while they used all their cap space on second and third rate free agents, instead acquiring future assets by taking on bad contracts. They come out of this offseason with RJ Barrett and a few role players. Considering they would have ended up with Barrett regardless of the Porzingis trade, they basically traded Porzingis for a guy they should have already drafted in DSJ, 2 first round picks (unprotected 2021 and top-10 protected 2023), and this free agency haul. They better hope Dallas sucks and Porzingis never fulfills his potential so those picks really turn into something. Otherwise, they lost Porzingis for a pipe dream.

Hornets-Losing Kemba makes them the worst team in the NBA IMO. They are in a terrible cap situation and will probably resort to tanking for the next several years. Just a terribly ran franchise.

Warriors-I think they landed on their feet quite nicely, but if I'm putting Toronto as a loser for losing Kawhi then I have to put the Warriors as losers for losing KD. Even though they did get D'Angelo Russell for Kevin Durant in a trade, rather than losing Durant for nothing, Russell isn't close to Durant and they also had to give up a future 1st round pick. Moving on from Iggy and Livingston were expected, but it closes the door on the Warriors as we knew them. These new Warriors are going to be a lot different from the champion Warriors of yesterday. Even though they'll still be good, they'll never be the same.

Bucks-Losing Brogdon and Mirotic without replacements while some of your main competitors (Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Indiana) got better makes you a loser, especially when it's practically championship or bust for you next year. The Bucks could end up winning the title next year and still like losers for the offseason because they lost two really good players for no other reason than to keep a tax bill low. They saved money, but they'll likely be a worse team next year.

Too early to tell
Thunder-I know everyone wants to put them as winners because they turned Paul George, Russell Westbrook, and Jermi Grant into 8 1st round picks, 4 pick swaps, and SGA, but what are the odds that all those picks turn into players as good as either George or Westbrook? Those picks certainly won't be another Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, and Serge Ibaka pairing. We have to see what fruit this rebuild yields before we can truly judge the Thunder, but we will always wonder what could have been with that franchise.

IndyRealist
07-16-2019, 08:22 AM
It's weird that everyone went on about how big of a mistake giving Al Horford a huge contract is, but also give the 76ers a W and the Celtics an L.

hugepatsfan
07-16-2019, 08:38 AM
It's weird that everyone went on about how big of a mistake giving Al Horford a huge contract is, but also give the 76ers a W and the Celtics an L.

There are different objectives at play. You can think that over the course of a deal Horford is bad value while also thinking that for this upcoming season he swings the balance of power in the East.

Giannis94
07-16-2019, 09:11 AM
There are different objectives at play. You can think that over the course of a deal Horford is bad value while also thinking that for this upcoming season he swings the balance of power in the East.

I think it's a good deal for the first 2 years and then awful the next 2. I guess it also helps that it gives them a legit post presence when Embiid sits or is injured which is something you have to take into account

NBA all the way
07-16-2019, 09:36 AM
I think it's a good deal for the first 2 years and then awful the next 2. I guess it also helps that it gives them a legit post presence when Embiid sits or is injured which is something you have to take into account

I anticipate that's why they front loaded the contract and only gave him a partial guaraentee in year 4.

warfelg
07-16-2019, 09:47 AM
I anticipate that's why they front loaded the contract and only gave him a partial guaraentee in year 4.

Pretty much.

Scoots
07-16-2019, 10:12 AM
The Warriors have to be a winner for turning an empty roster spot in a not-going-to-play-this-year KD into an all-star. Frankly I think the re-made team is a lot more interesting than the team from the last couple years.

The whole NBA is more interesting with all the chopping and changing. Only 4 players from the last 10 all-nba teams are still on their original rosters, and the all-star lists are even more changed. Player movement is at an all-time high, and next year is going to see more of the same. The NBA is being re-made yearly now and the fans are both winners and losers in that.

NBA all the way
07-16-2019, 10:43 AM
The Warriors have to be a winner for turning an empty roster spot in a not-going-to-play-this-year KD into an all-star. Frankly I think the re-made team is a lot more interesting than the team from the last couple years.

The whole NBA is more interesting with all the chopping and changing. Only 4 players from the last 10 all-nba teams are still on their original rosters, and the all-star lists are even more changed. Player movement is at an all-time high, and next year is going to see more of the same. The NBA is being re-made yearly now and the fans are both winners and losers in that.

I doubt D-Lo ever makes another All-Star game out West, it's stacked with guards.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-16-2019, 11:29 AM
The biggest winners of this offseason are the fans. This is gonna be a fun season.

mightybosstone
07-16-2019, 01:26 PM
The biggest winners of this offseason are the fans. This is gonna be a fun season.

Pretty much this. Regardless of whatever teams we all personally root for, this offseason is a huge boost to competitiveness in the league. It will be amazing to go into next season not feeling like the champion is predetermined already and not really knowing who the favorite is or if there even should be a favorite.

mightybosstone
07-16-2019, 01:48 PM
A pretty big low-key loser of the offseason: the Eastern Conference. Just when it looked like the East was starting to gain steam on the West and become its equal as a conference, this offseason kind of undid all of that in a hurry. You could make a strong case that the top four teams in the conference all got worse. Toronto lost Kawhi and Milwaukee lost Brogdon, so they're worse on paper no matter how you look at it. Then Philly and Boston will both be pretty different teams next season, and it's kind of hard to tell whether they'll be as good as their 2018-19 versions.

The Nets got a lot better, but we won't really see that fully come to fruition until 2020-21, and Miami got better with the Butler signing, but not enough that they're serious contenders. Indiana is probably better on paper, but even they're tough to really judge at this point.

Oakmont_4
07-16-2019, 05:53 PM
Winners:
Okc: Nice job.
Pels: Might have a brighter future than the team they made the trade with
Worriers: They had a better record before KD. I expect that to be the same this time around because wins means everything
Nets: I got a thread locked and multiple infractions a few years ago for posting a thread that the nets would have a brighter future than the knicks. I am right.


Losers:
clippers: Once Kawhi & PG leave in two years the Thunder will have an army chest of top 5 picks. It's a two year window with a coach that many question on here. This is like when they traded the umprotected pick that ended being #1 in the draft 5 times over

The team that shall not be named. $360 m for two players not top 25 in the game as well as an aging. not so much upset about the C as he actually makes an impact in playoff games; but paying him close to 100 mill could backfire.

Rockets: lol wtf you doing.

Celts: 141 m for a pg while losing your best post player. Lets see how this pays off

This is so upside down

Oakmont_4
07-16-2019, 05:57 PM
Winners
Clippers-Easily the winners of the offseason. Adding Kawhi AND Paul George not only puts them in direct competition with the Lebron/AD Lakers, but it actually makes them the favorites. The Los Angeles Clippers, by all accounts, are the best team on paper and should be the favorites to win the NBA Championship in June.

Lakers-Kawhi would have been the icing on the cake, but pairing AD with Lebron skyrockets the Lakers past most other teams alone. On top of that though, they put a pretty solid team around them considering most other free agents came off the board while they were waiting on Kawhi.

Nets-Even though Kevin Durant won't play this season, getting Kyrie and Durant to sign legitimizes what the Nets have been building. Having Kyrie and DJ will make them better next year and whet their appetite for when KD debut's. Beating out the Knicks is just icing.

Rockets-Just removing CP3's contract would have been a bit of a win for Houston, but moving CP3's contract to reunite Russell Westbrook with James Harden is fantastic. While both Harden/Westbrook are best with the ball in their hands, both are more than capable of distributing the basketball. I think this pairing will change how the Rockets play a bit, but improve their odds at contention for years to come.

Pelicans-Getting what they got from the Lakers in the AD trade would have been enough to make them winners, but they were also gifted Zion Williamson by winning the lottery. Now the Pelicans have one of the highest ceilings in the NBA, and will likely be better next season than they were a year ago, when they still had AD on the roster.

76ers-Getting Al Horford is an absolutely massive win the Philadelphia. Losing Butler hurts, and Josh Richardson won't produce anything close to what Butler did, but signing Al Horford along with getting Josh Richardson actually makes the 76ers better than they were last year. Philadelphia was a mess when Embiid went to the bench last year, their team stats tanked hard when Embiid was off the floor, but that should no longer be the case now that they have Horford. Ultimately for the 76ers to ever win they are going to have to rely on Simmons/Embiid to continue to improve, but basically turning Butler into Horford/Richardson makes them better.

Jazz-They've really rounded out their team well by getting Conley and Bogdanovic. The difference between Conley and Rubio offensively is night and day. Conley is a solid shooter and should work very well with both Mitchell and Gobert while Bogdanovic gives them something they've lacked in recent years, real floor spacing. For years the Jazz have been starting both Favors/Gobert at PF/C, two players who play underneath the basket, instead of having a stretch 4 or 5. They won't be as long next year, but they should be a lot better offensively and remain strong defensively.

Losers
Raptors-Losing Kawhi kills their chances at championship contention for the foreseeable future. The saving grace for Toronto is we can't foresee very far in the NBA so who knows where they'll be in a few years, but for this off season they're losers. Them winning the championship makes the Kawhi trade worth it, but losing him in free agency still makes them losers. They still have a bright future, but you can't lose a player like Kawhi for nothing in the offseason and come out as anything but an offseason loser.

Knicks-All their grandiose plans, once again, spectacularly blew up in their faces. They dreamed big about instantly creating a big 3 of Zion and 2 max free agents, they even traded Kristaps Porzingis to create the necessary cap. But not only did they miss out on Zion when they lost the lottery, they were so pathetically rejected by every superstar free agent (besides Kawhi) that they went ahead and cancelled the meeting with Kawhi knowing they had no shot. Their GM apologized to the fans while they used all their cap space on second and third rate free agents, instead acquiring future assets by taking on bad contracts. They come out of this offseason with RJ Barrett and a few role players. Considering they would have ended up with Barrett regardless of the Porzingis trade, they basically traded Porzingis for a guy they should have already drafted in DSJ, 2 first round picks (unprotected 2021 and top-10 protected 2023), and this free agency haul. They better hope Dallas sucks and Porzingis never fulfills his potential so those picks really turn into something. Otherwise, they lost Porzingis for a pipe dream.

Hornets-Losing Kemba makes them the worst team in the NBA IMO. They are in a terrible cap situation and will probably resort to tanking for the next several years. Just a terribly ran franchise.

Warriors-I think they landed on their feet quite nicely, but if I'm putting Toronto as a loser for losing Kawhi then I have to put the Warriors as losers for losing KD. Even though they did get D'Angelo Russell for Kevin Durant in a trade, rather than losing Durant for nothing, Russell isn't close to Durant and they also had to give up a future 1st round pick. Moving on from Iggy and Livingston were expected, but it closes the door on the Warriors as we knew them. These new Warriors are going to be a lot different from the champion Warriors of yesterday. Even though they'll still be good, they'll never be the same.

Bucks-Losing Brogdon and Mirotic without replacements while some of your main competitors (Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Indiana) got better makes you a loser, especially when it's practically championship or bust for you next year. The Bucks could end up winning the title next year and still like losers for the offseason because they lost two really good players for no other reason than to keep a tax bill low. They saved money, but they'll likely be a worse team next year.

Too early to tell
Thunder-I know everyone wants to put them as winners because they turned Paul George, Russell Westbrook, and Jermi Grant into 8 1st round picks, 4 pick swaps, and SGA, but what are the odds that all those picks turn into players as good as either George or Westbrook? Those picks certainly won't be another Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, and Serge Ibaka pairing. We have to see what fruit this rebuild yields before we can truly judge the Thunder, but we will always wonder what could have been with that franchise.

This

TrueFan420
07-16-2019, 09:24 PM
I doubt D-Lo ever makes another All-Star game out West, it's stacked with guards.
Probably not but if he puts up similar numbers and has a good year with the warriors not missing a beat I wouldn’t argue the semantics of all star vs all star talent.

Dame has been snubbed several times from the all star game and I wouldn’t quibble with anyone saying he’s an all star in a year he didn’t get called.

DLO isn’t Dame but he’s def a very talented player.

Vallejo Raiders
07-16-2019, 09:34 PM
Please for the love of god flip DLos snitching *** for Ingram!!!

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-21-2019, 09:11 AM
Winners
Clippers-Easily the winners of the offseason. Adding Kawhi AND Paul George not only puts them in direct competition with the Lebron/AD Lakers, but it actually makes them the favorites. The Los Angeles Clippers, by all accounts, are the best team on paper and should be the favorites to win the NBA Championship in June.

Lakers-Kawhi would have been the icing on the cake, but pairing AD with Lebron skyrockets the Lakers past most other teams alone. On top of that though, they put a pretty solid team around them considering most other free agents came off the board while they were waiting on Kawhi.

Nets-Even though Kevin Durant won't play this season, getting Kyrie and Durant to sign legitimizes what the Nets have been building. Having Kyrie and DJ will make them better next year and whet their appetite for when KD debut's. Beating out the Knicks is just icing.

Rockets-Just removing CP3's contract would have been a bit of a win for Houston, but moving CP3's contract to reunite Russell Westbrook with James Harden is fantastic. While both Harden/Westbrook are best with the ball in their hands, both are more than capable of distributing the basketball. I think this pairing will change how the Rockets play a bit, but improve their odds at contention for years to come.

Pelicans-Getting what they got from the Lakers in the AD trade would have been enough to make them winners, but they were also gifted Zion Williamson by winning the lottery. Now the Pelicans have one of the highest ceilings in the NBA, and will likely be better next season than they were a year ago, when they still had AD on the roster.

76ers-Getting Al Horford is an absolutely massive win the Philadelphia. Losing Butler hurts, and Josh Richardson won't produce anything close to what Butler did, but signing Al Horford along with getting Josh Richardson actually makes the 76ers better than they were last year. Philadelphia was a mess when Embiid went to the bench last year, their team stats tanked hard when Embiid was off the floor, but that should no longer be the case now that they have Horford. Ultimately for the 76ers to ever win they are going to have to rely on Simmons/Embiid to continue to improve, but basically turning Butler into Horford/Richardson makes them better.

Jazz-They've really rounded out their team well by getting Conley and Bogdanovic. The difference between Conley and Rubio offensively is night and day. Conley is a solid shooter and should work very well with both Mitchell and Gobert while Bogdanovic gives them something they've lacked in recent years, real floor spacing. For years the Jazz have been starting both Favors/Gobert at PF/C, two players who play underneath the basket, instead of having a stretch 4 or 5. They won't be as long next year, but they should be a lot better offensively and remain strong defensively.

Losers
Raptors-Losing Kawhi kills their chances at championship contention for the foreseeable future. The saving grace for Toronto is we can't foresee very far in the NBA so who knows where they'll be in a few years, but for this off season they're losers. Them winning the championship makes the Kawhi trade worth it, but losing him in free agency still makes them losers. They still have a bright future, but you can't lose a player like Kawhi for nothing in the offseason and come out as anything but an offseason loser.

Knicks-All their grandiose plans, once again, spectacularly blew up in their faces. They dreamed big about instantly creating a big 3 of Zion and 2 max free agents, they even traded Kristaps Porzingis to create the necessary cap. But not only did they miss out on Zion when they lost the lottery, they were so pathetically rejected by every superstar free agent (besides Kawhi) that they went ahead and cancelled the meeting with Kawhi knowing they had no shot. Their GM apologized to the fans while they used all their cap space on second and third rate free agents, instead acquiring future assets by taking on bad contracts. They come out of this offseason with RJ Barrett and a few role players. Considering they would have ended up with Barrett regardless of the Porzingis trade, they basically traded Porzingis for a guy they should have already drafted in DSJ, 2 first round picks (unprotected 2021 and top-10 protected 2023), and this free agency haul. They better hope Dallas sucks and Porzingis never fulfills his potential so those picks really turn into something. Otherwise, they lost Porzingis for a pipe dream.

Hornets-Losing Kemba makes them the worst team in the NBA IMO. They are in a terrible cap situation and will probably resort to tanking for the next several years. Just a terribly ran franchise.

Warriors-I think they landed on their feet quite nicely, but if I'm putting Toronto as a loser for losing Kawhi then I have to put the Warriors as losers for losing KD. Even though they did get D'Angelo Russell for Kevin Durant in a trade, rather than losing Durant for nothing, Russell isn't close to Durant and they also had to give up a future 1st round pick. Moving on from Iggy and Livingston were expected, but it closes the door on the Warriors as we knew them. These new Warriors are going to be a lot different from the champion Warriors of yesterday. Even though they'll still be good, they'll never be the same.

Bucks-Losing Brogdon and Mirotic without replacements while some of your main competitors (Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Indiana) got better makes you a loser, especially when it's practically championship or bust for you next year. The Bucks could end up winning the title next year and still like losers for the offseason because they lost two really good players for no other reason than to keep a tax bill low. They saved money, but they'll likely be a worse team next year.

Too early to tell
Thunder-I know everyone wants to put them as winners because they turned Paul George, Russell Westbrook, and Jermi Grant into 8 1st round picks, 4 pick swaps, and SGA, but what are the odds that all those picks turn into players as good as either George or Westbrook? Those picks certainly won't be another Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, and Serge Ibaka pairing. We have to see what fruit this rebuild yields before we can truly judge the Thunder, but we will always wonder what could have been with that franchise.

All speculation and to soon to tell.

Clippers probably clear favorites on paper as of now long as they stay healthy.

Lakers did pretty good getting AD. But wasted one year of LeBron pulling it off. Cousins is a wait and see if he recovers or continues to decline with injuries piling up.

Nets wont have KD till next season. Flat earth Irving wont carry that team. Maybe weak east they can get in around 6 -7-8. But still no one wants them seeds.

Rockets unloading CP3 was groovy. But still curious how Harden and Westy works out being teamed up again.

Pelicans are up in the air since Zion got dinged up already. Time will tell.

Like I said in the Horford signing thread. He's a excellent glue guy and can shoot. But once playoffs come and games are back to back or closer in a time frame he loses 2 to 3 steps. He was fresh against the Bucks in game one with a week of rest or so and was a beast being fresh. Game two and beyond he couldn't hang with anyone. Bit of a odd pairing. It may work out, it may not. Losing Butler sucks. But the locker room probably got better without him. But lost a warrior. Richardson is a great pick up. But also lost Redick. Who is gonna space the floor? Park Horford-Embiid-Richardson all beyond 3 point arc and let Simmons in the paint? Unless Simmons learns to shoot it this summer. Time will tell.

Jazz will be good with Conley and Bogs. They did move on from Favors though. See how that works out or not.

Yeah easy to label the champs losers with Kawhi bolting. No doubt in that. But they should of peddled off the veterans and get any picks they can and flat out tank. But weak east they can get in the playoffs.

As for the Knicks. They gonna do what they always do. If they don't land anyone then sign other guys to long term deals then peddle off picks later to get rid of them fresh contracts. They would of been better off eating dead weight for more picks.

Hornets been losers for a while now. Losing Kemba for nothing is lousy. Then paying Rozier wasn't good. They be better off just flat out tank and let them contracts expiring then eat more dead weight deals and get more picks and continue to tank.

As for the old champs. Warriors were due to fall apart eventually. KD is a huge loss. But Iggy and Livingston pretty much done. Should of gave one last go chasing some ring chasers. They'll be in the playoffs but who knows how far though.

As for my Bucks. Yeah losing 50-40-90 in Brogdon sucks. But remember he had that foot injury in college. It came back again. I didn't want to sink dead money into a injury-prone player. Also slow plodder. Really isn't a pg. Can plug him there but will get burned by speedy pg's. Slow release shooter. Needs to be wide open. Also doesn't create his own shot that well. Needs to be set up. He does have that little tear drop runner in the paint. Also when Giannis is triple teamed Brogdon got a few flashy dunks while in Milwaukee. If Brogdon can stay healthy Pacers got a good one. But they gave up a first round pick and two second round picks. Our GM been pretty crafty with picks in trades for upgrades. We surely needed some. Since our cupboards are pretty empty. As for Mirotic. Shame to see him go. But I knew he be a rental unless we lost a big fish signing like Middleton. But if Middleton bolts we probably would of kept both Brogdon and Mirotic. But Mirotic got injured or was injured during the trade. Then didn't do much in the playoffs. Also Mirotic signed over seas. So no loss to us feeding another team since he didn't stay in the NBA. Also Bucks won 60 games last year with guys like Delly,Henson,Maker,Wood,Frazier,Duval and many other scrap heap players. Horst flipped them with picks for upgrades. Only major loss from trades was rental Mirotic. We got to keep Hill. Also signed Matthews. Matthews made 50 more threes then Brogdon. Korver is a bit old and lost a step but can still rain threes when everyone else goes cold. Sure could of used Korver to offset Fred in the playoffs. I wasn't pleased that we extended Bledsoe midseason last year. But he can be traded on September 2 though. Not sure if we do or not.

As for the Thunder. They got a lot of picks dealing Westy and PG13. But time will tell how they trade CP3. Not much for a market for centers. So dealing Adams may take sometime or a desperate playoff team that has a injured big man.

One team you didn't mention is the Celtics. Weak east they probably make the playoffs. Addition by subtracting letting Irving walk. Kemba was a nice signing. But losing glue guy Horford which was the heart of the Celtics. That's a huge blow. Also Morris and Baynes and Rozier gone. Yeah they got Kanter. But he isn't a winner and will be a ball hog. But with Ainge missing out on AD which he preached about trading for, for years and didn't happen. Even though AD's Dad said he didn't want his son playing for the Celtics and probably would of walked anyway. So Ainge was stuck. But that advertised war chest doesn't look to impressive now. Pretty much hope Kemba doesn't fall flat since he has miles on him carry the Hornets to nowhere as a one man army.

So many moving pieces again this offseason. Probably missed some moves and will think about some other teams soon enough.

IndyRealist
07-21-2019, 10:12 AM
Pacers signed Justin Holiday, now have 2 of 3 Holidays. #championship

Giannis94
07-21-2019, 10:51 AM
This is so upside down

No it's not. I'm right. You're wrong

buckalis
07-21-2019, 10:59 AM
Pacers signed Justin Holiday, now have 2 of 3 Holidays. #championship

(joke) OK... Bucks are going on Antetokounmpos and Pacers are going on ...holidays!

Scoots
07-21-2019, 02:27 PM
Pacers signed Justin Holiday, now have 2 of 3 Holidays. #championship

All 3 Holidays are good players, but Justin is way too passive.