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View Full Version : Where should Chris Paul go?



Tg11
07-09-2019, 07:21 PM
It is obvious he and Harden can't play together. Plus CP3 being the President of the NBPA has that outrageous contract with that trade kicker. Houston are not gonna trade Harden because that would be pretty stupid to trade away the face of your franchise over a PG who is near his prime or past his prime. However, if Chris Paul does end up wanting out of Houston, where does he end up? Which teams would be willing to take a chance on CP3?

beasted86
07-09-2019, 08:48 PM
This late in the summer, Rockets would get garbage for CP3. Even at the beginning of free agency if they pushed, best case scenario is cap relief which means they would have to concede they are willing to waste a year of Harden at his peak (which would be dumb).

rhino17
07-09-2019, 10:16 PM
They can't play together? They took a full strength to the brink of elimination

CP3 isnt going anywhere

mightybosstone
07-10-2019, 12:34 PM
Christ, aren't we past this already? Paul is not going anywhere. The Yahoo report was debunked by multiple legitimate sources, and even if they didn't get along, it doesn't matter. Paul is under contract, his contract is next to possible to deal, and he's going to play out at least 1-2 more years of that deal regardless of his relationship with Harden.

Plus, the notion that Harden and Paul "can't play together" is just truly ignorant. Have you not paid any attention to basketball the last two years? Did you miss the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league and came one hamstring injury away from dethroning a health Warriors dynasty like 14 months ago? Or the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league the second half of this season?

I get why people want to overreact. They underwhelmed this last season and that Warriors series didn't end well. They were sloppy, and feelings were clearly hurt the way all of that went down—which clearly got out into the media. But these guys are professionals, they've won a lot of basketball games together and there's no reason to think they won't continue to do so.

TL;DR: Paul isn't going anywhere. The Rockets are still a top 5 basketball team. This thread is garbage.

crewfan13
07-10-2019, 01:07 PM
Again, I do tend to agree with your assessment of the rockets. That being said, the rockets that took a healthy GS to the brink 14 months ago lost some key players that I think they truly missed this year.

And the 2nd half thing is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy too. I get they got healthier and that for sure helped. But they were also in the middle of the pack and in the hunt for most of the 2nd half compared to teams like GS, Milwaukee, Toronto and Philly who were all giving players more off days down the stretch to prepare for the playoffs. So it's definitely not a bad thing they had the best 2nd half record, but the need to have a stronger 2nd half record than some of the other top teams likely drove that to an extent as well.

SteBO
07-10-2019, 01:09 PM
^After this offseason, Houston running it back is probably the best move anyway. They're not the best in West, but as it stands they're gonna be a tough out like always, and if things break right....who knows.

mightybosstone
07-10-2019, 01:24 PM
Again, I do tend to agree with your assessment of the rockets. That being said, the rockets that took a healthy GS to the brink 14 months ago lost some key players that I think they truly missed this year.

And the 2nd half thing is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy too. I get they got healthier and that for sure helped. But they were also in the middle of the pack and in the hunt for most of the 2nd half compared to teams like GS, Milwaukee, Toronto and Philly who were all giving players more off days down the stretch to prepare for the playoffs. So it's definitely not a bad thing they had the best 2nd half record, but the need to have a stronger 2nd half record than some of the other top teams likely drove that to an extent as well.

Yeah, that team deserved criticism for how they started the season, and they have only themselves to blame for that 11-14 start. Yeah, Melo was a bad fit, but it wasn't all on him. The whole team underachieved and played garbage basketball, Harden and Paul included. If they don't start 11-14, they probably end up with the top seed in the West or at the very least the No. 2 seed. If that happens, I think they might have gotten past Golden State.

I think the Ariza/Mbah a Moute stuff was definitely overrated, though. Mbah a Moute is basically trash now, and Ariza was a shell of himself last season in Phoenix and Washington. The idea that Melo, MCW and Ennis were going to replace those guys was clearly a bad one, but Morey wasn't wrong to let them go. He just didn't do a good enough job replacing them until midseason when they added House and Rivers. Starting the season with those guys in the rotation should, in theory, help them get off to a better start.

And I'm still holding out hope that Morey pulls off a deal to get a legitimate starting 3 back in the lineup—I'd kill for Covington or Iggy, but I'd settle for anyone competent 3 and D guy with more experience than House.

crewfan13
07-10-2019, 02:44 PM
Yeah, that team deserved criticism for how they started the season, and they have only themselves to blame for that 11-14 start. Yeah, Melo was a bad fit, but it wasn't all on him. The whole team underachieved and played garbage basketball, Harden and Paul included. If they don't start 11-14, they probably end up with the top seed in the West or at the very least the No. 2 seed. If that happens, I think they might have gotten past Golden State.

I think the Ariza/Mbah a Moute stuff was definitely overrated, though. Mbah a Moute is basically trash now, and Ariza was a shell of himself last season in Phoenix and Washington. The idea that Melo, MCW and Ennis were going to replace those guys was clearly a bad one, but Morey wasn't wrong to let them go. He just didn't do a good enough job replacing them until midseason when they added House and Rivers. Starting the season with those guys in the rotation should, in theory, help them get off to a better start.

And I'm still holding out hope that Morey pulls off a deal to get a legitimate starting 3 back in the lineup—I'd kill for Covington or Iggy, but I'd settle for anyone competent 3 and D guy with more experience than House.

Agree that bringing them back maybe wasn't the wrong move. More just pointing out that the year before they were just a better team with more talent. Doesn't mean the same roster would have been just as good last year. It's more pointing out that this current version isn't as talented as the version that was a Paul injury away from potentially dethroning a healthy GS a year earlier.

There's still talent and I wouldn't be shocked if they win the west or are at least in the ECF, but I also think they have some risk with everything seemingly hanging on by a thread as everyone gets older. I wouldnt be shocked if they end up finishing like 4th-6th and get bounced early either.

JAZZNC
07-11-2019, 01:27 AM
Christ, aren't we past this already? Paul is not going anywhere. The Yahoo report was debunked by multiple legitimate sources, and even if they didn't get along, it doesn't matter. Paul is under contract, his contract is next to possible to deal, and he's going to play out at least 1-2 more years of that deal regardless of his relationship with Harden.

Plus, the notion that Harden and Paul "can't play together" is just truly ignorant. Have you not paid any attention to basketball the last two years? Did you miss the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league and came one hamstring injury away from dethroning a health Warriors dynasty like 14 months ago? Or the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league the second half of this season?

I get why people want to overreact. They underwhelmed this last season and that Warriors series didn't end well. They were sloppy, and feelings were clearly hurt the way all of that went down—which clearly got out into the media. But these guys are professionals, they've won a lot of basketball games together and there's no reason to think they won't continue to do so.

TL;DR: Paul isn't going anywhere. The Rockets are still a top 5 basketball team. This thread is garbage.

I agree. Paul is going to be in Houston for at least this season and probably the next. They are still a great team because Harden is so damn good. Personally I think they've missed their window but that's as currently constructed. A guy like Iggy would be HUGE for you guys.

I mean I think teams like the Jazz, Nuggets, Lakers, Warriors, and Clippers could beat the Rockets in a series but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Rockets won a series against any of those teams. It's just really close in the West. I don't know that people are discrediting the Rockets more than they are acknowledging that the gap has gotten a lot closer this off-season between the Rockets/Warriors and the rest of the Western Conference.

zookman65
07-11-2019, 07:08 AM
Not sure who would want that salary. He is just not that good anymore and always a bit overrated IMO. In a game where one player can make a huge difference (See LeBron, Kawhi, etc) he somehow couldnt advance a fairly talented Clipper team when he was a young in prime star there. I dont know man.. Very good player and career, yes, all time great or top 3 to 5 in NBA in any year, no.

mightybosstone
07-11-2019, 10:49 PM
I just wanted to pull this thread back up to say I was wrong. OP, I owe you and everyone else who suggested the "Paul is getting traded" rumors were legitimate an apology. I honestly thought he wasn't going anywhere and all of that was ********, but clearly I was wrong and the Rockets and Paul were more than willing to part ways with each other after all.

In my defense, I thought it was impossible because there wasn't a deal to be made where the Rockets could get a legitimate star player in return. And the Westbrook deal never seemed feasible, nor did I want it do be. But it's happening, and I have to stomach watching that dude in a Rockets jersey for a while. I guess there are worse ways this all could have panned out?

Bostonjorge
07-11-2019, 10:52 PM
Minnesota is a good spot for Paul.

bleedprple&gold
07-12-2019, 01:55 AM
I just wanted to pull this thread back up to say I was wrong. OP, I owe you and everyone else who suggested the "Paul is getting traded" rumors were legitimate an apology. I honestly thought he wasn't going anywhere and all of that was ********, but clearly I was wrong and the Rockets and Paul were more than willing to part ways with each other after all.

In my defense, I thought it was impossible because there wasn't a deal to be made where the Rockets could get a legitimate star player in return. And the Westbrook deal never seemed feasible, nor did I want it do be. But it's happening, and I have to stomach watching that dude in a Rockets jersey for a while. I guess there are worse ways this all could have panned out?

Like it or not, fit aside, Westbrook is a significant upgrade over CP3.

TheMightyHumph
07-12-2019, 03:04 AM
Like it or not, fit aside, Westbrook is a significant upgrade over CP3.

If they play with two basketballs, maybe.

Tg11
07-12-2019, 03:54 AM
Paul obviously wants to contend so now that he is in OKC seemingly by himself...Paul is not gonna want to stay there so I can easily see the Thunder flipping Paul and he ends up going to yet another team especially if the Thunder are trying to rebuild

Scoots
07-12-2019, 12:55 PM
Paul obviously wants to contend so now that he is in OKC seemingly by himself...Paul is not gonna want to stay there so I can easily see the Thunder flipping Paul and he ends up going to yet another team especially if the Thunder are trying to rebuild

How does he end up on the Lakers?

Tg11
07-12-2019, 12:55 PM
How does he end up on the Lakers?

OKC ends up buying out Paul

Scoots
07-12-2019, 12:57 PM
I just wanted to pull this thread back up to say I was wrong. OP, I owe you and everyone else who suggested the "Paul is getting traded" rumors were legitimate an apology. I honestly thought he wasn't going anywhere and all of that was ********, but clearly I was wrong and the Rockets and Paul were more than willing to part ways with each other after all.

In my defense, I thought it was impossible because there wasn't a deal to be made where the Rockets could get a legitimate star player in return. And the Westbrook deal never seemed feasible, nor did I want it do be. But it's happening, and I have to stomach watching that dude in a Rockets jersey for a while. I guess there are worse ways this all could have panned out?

OKC's situation changed dramatically which made this trade possible, don't think you could have known that was coming. I didn't think CP3 would be moved either.

As far as this trade goes ... CP3 with a smaller contract AND picks for Westbrook with the larger contract ... I really don't know that I like the deal for the Rockets, but we'll never really know how broken the team was so they may really have been forced into this deal.

aman_13
07-12-2019, 01:24 PM
Christ, aren't we past this already? Paul is not going anywhere. The Yahoo report was debunked by multiple legitimate sources, and even if they didn't get along, it doesn't matter. Paul is under contract, his contract is next to possible to deal, and he's going to play out at least 1-2 more years of that deal regardless of his relationship with Harden.

Plus, the notion that Harden and Paul "can't play together" is just truly ignorant. Have you not paid any attention to basketball the last two years? Did you miss the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league and came one hamstring injury away from dethroning a health Warriors dynasty like 14 months ago? Or the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league the second half of this season?

I get why people want to overreact. They underwhelmed this last season and that Warriors series didn't end well. They were sloppy, and feelings were clearly hurt the way all of that went down—which clearly got out into the media. But these guys are professionals, they've won a lot of basketball games together and there's no reason to think they won't continue to do so.

TL;DR: Paul isn't going anywhere. The Rockets are still a top 5 basketball team. This thread is garbage.This aged well.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

aman_13
07-12-2019, 01:25 PM
I just wanted to pull this thread back up to say I was wrong. OP, I owe you and everyone else who suggested the "Paul is getting traded" rumors were legitimate an apology. I honestly thought he wasn't going anywhere and all of that was ********, but clearly I was wrong and the Rockets and Paul were more than willing to part ways with each other after all.

In my defense, I thought it was impossible because there wasn't a deal to be made where the Rockets could get a legitimate star player in return. And the Westbrook deal never seemed feasible, nor did I want it do be. But it's happening, and I have to stomach watching that dude in a Rockets jersey for a while. I guess there are worse ways this all could have panned out?

We forgive you!

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

aman_13
07-12-2019, 01:26 PM
I'm playing around, I do wonder where Paul will go though

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

JAZZNC
07-12-2019, 05:24 PM
Is it far fetched to say that Paul is not a good teammate? I mean he's had problems everywhere he's been. I honestly think this trade might have been more about getting rid of Paul than it was about getting Westbrook. I mean I've seen it since his college days (I'm a Wake fan) he's just a prick. And it may be getting to the point where his play no longer warrants putting up with it???

I will admit that Paul and Butler on the same team would be good entertainment.

_Supreme_
07-12-2019, 05:29 PM
How does he end up on the Lakers?

Him and Rondo would be awesome together :D

lakerfan85
07-12-2019, 08:36 PM
Chris Paul is overrated. Dude is horrible leader..

KG2TB
07-12-2019, 08:54 PM
Him and Rondo would be awesome together :D

I know I’d pay to see rondo connect on that left cross again.

TrueFan420
07-12-2019, 09:07 PM
OKC ends up buying out Paul
Why would they do that.

beasted86
07-12-2019, 09:12 PM
I just wanted to pull this thread back up to say I was wrong. OP, I owe you and everyone else who suggested the "Paul is getting traded" rumors were legitimate an apology. I honestly thought he wasn't going anywhere and all of that was ********, but clearly I was wrong and the Rockets and Paul were more than willing to part ways with each other after all.

In my defense, I thought it was impossible because there wasn't a deal to be made where the Rockets could get a legitimate star player in return. And the Westbrook deal never seemed feasible, nor did I want it do be. But it's happening, and I have to stomach watching that dude in a Rockets jersey for a while. I guess there are worse ways this all could have panned out?

I'd chalk it up to being a homer when it comes to anything Morey says. You seem to have an objective view in regards to many things Rockets-related, but not when it comes to Morey or Harden.

LaVar Ball
07-13-2019, 12:17 AM
Clippers


Mend the relationships with the Clippers organization. Have him be the prototypical point guard to get the ball effectively to Kawhi and PG. Pat Bev can be the back up at the 1.

mightybosstone
07-13-2019, 09:58 AM
I'd chalk it up to being a homer when it comes to anything Morey says. You seem to have an objective view in regards to many things Rockets-related, but not when it comes to Morey or Harden.

I tend to give Morey the benefit of the doubt, because he's hit on so many trades, draft picks and random acquisitions everybody questioned, but I've been critical after the fact and even in the moment when he deserved it--like this trade and the Marcus Morris over Kawhi draft night. Last offseason was also pretty much an unmitigated disaster.

mightybosstone
07-13-2019, 10:04 AM
Is it far fetched to say that Paul is not a good teammate? I mean he's had problems everywhere he's been. I honestly think this trade might have been more about getting rid of Paul than it was about getting Westbrook. I mean I've seen it since his college days (I'm a Wake fan) he's just a prick. And it may be getting to the point where his play no longer warrants putting up with it???

I will admit that Paul and Butler on the same team would be good entertainment.

I'm beginning to wonder it myself. As fans we see his barking and criticism on the floor and think of him as a leader. But maybe to players, he's just coming off as an arrogant *******. We don't hear everything he says or see the things that happen behind closed doors or in practice. Clearly the guy has gotten under the skin of other star players over the years, but because of who those guys are (Blake, Harden), it's hard to tell if it's younger immature guys who can't handle his legitimate criticism or if he's just a massive ******* who pisses everyone off. In 10-20 years, I'm looking forward to some behind-the-scenes Chris Paul stories that will inevitably start to trickle out in books and articles to see what kind of picture other players will paint of him.

Charles Rick
07-13-2019, 11:52 AM
He's no getting bought out, unless he's leaving a MASSIVE amount of money on the table. He has THREE years, 124M left in his contract. No team is buying him out.

Scoots
07-13-2019, 12:20 PM
I tend to give Morey the benefit of the doubt, because he's hit on so many trades, draft picks and random acquisitions everybody questioned, but I've been critical after the fact and even in the moment when he deserved it--like this trade and the Marcus Morris over Kawhi draft night. Last offseason was also pretty much an unmitigated disaster.

I too like Morey, but think he has some blindness in some things. That said, we have no idea how much of last off-season was a result of ownership pressure.

The Rockets are an oddly built team at the moment, but most of the teams in the West are kind of odd right now.

Scoots
07-13-2019, 12:20 PM
He's no getting bought out, unless he's leaving a MASSIVE amount of money on the table. He has THREE years, 124M left in his contract. No team is buying him out.

Nobody said he was.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-13-2019, 12:20 PM
What about Wall for CP3? Wall is out with injury. It lets the Thunder tank right away. Beal gets a win now guy in CP3. But CP3 isn't what he use to be though. No matter where CP3 goes. Its gonna be junk for junk. Maybe Pistons or Magic?

TrueFan420
07-13-2019, 12:57 PM
I'm beginning to wonder it myself. As fans we see his barking and criticism on the floor and think of him as a leader. But maybe to players, he's just coming off as an arrogant *******. We don't hear everything he says or see the things that happen behind closed doors or in practice. Clearly the guy has gotten under the skin of other star players over the years, but because of who those guys are (Blake, Harden), it's hard to tell if it's younger immature guys who can't handle his legitimate criticism or if he's just a massive ******* who pisses everyone off. In 10-20 years, I'm looking forward to some behind-the-scenes Chris Paul stories that will inevitably start to trickle out in books and articles to see what kind of picture other players will paint of him.

I’ve found in life it’s almost never one or the other. It usually a blend of the two.

mrblisterdundee
07-13-2019, 07:17 PM
I'm wondering whether Minnesota could benefit from bringing in Paul. He's a task master but a bit more stable than Butler.
Maybe send Wiggins, Teague, Dieng and a younger wing to Oklahoma for Paul and Gallinari. I think that'd be a pretty exciting group with a lot of good shooters. Paul can feed Covington, Gallinari and Towns all day. Napier provides a lot of good relief minutes.
Oklahoma takes a flyer on Wiggins, but at least he's still young and athletic with a cheaper contract no longer than Paul's. He's also more of a net-negative than Paul, helping Oklahoma's draft picks. Teague's gone in a year, so the reins can go to Gilgeous-Alexander sooner. Dieng's gone in two. That's more than $35 million off the books over the next two years, more in the long-term than if they just let Gallinari run out.

Tg11
07-13-2019, 08:53 PM
I'm wondering whether Minnesota could benefit from bringing in Paul. He's a task master but a bit more stable than Butler.
Maybe send Wiggins, Teague, Dieng and a younger wing to Oklahoma for Paul and Gallinari. I think that'd be a pretty exciting group with a lot of good shooters. Paul can feed Covington, Gallinari and Towns all day. Napier provides a lot of good relief minutes.
Oklahoma takes a flyer on Wiggins, but at least he's still young and athletic with a cheaper contract no longer than Paul's. He's also more of a net-negative than Paul, helping Oklahoma's draft picks. Teague's gone in a year, so the reins can go to Gilgeous-Alexander sooner. Dieng's gone in two. That's more than $35 million off the books over the next two years, more in the long-term than if they just let Gallinari run out.

Minnesota for Paul I can see it

TylerSL
07-13-2019, 09:17 PM
I just wanted to pull this thread back up to say I was wrong. OP, I owe you and everyone else who suggested the "Paul is getting traded" rumors were legitimate an apology. I honestly thought he wasn't going anywhere and all of that was ********, but clearly I was wrong and the Rockets and Paul were more than willing to part ways with each other after all.

In my defense, I thought it was impossible because there wasn't a deal to be made where the Rockets could get a legitimate star player in return. And the Westbrook deal never seemed feasible, nor did I want it do be. But it's happening, and I have to stomach watching that dude in a Rockets jersey for a while. I guess there are worse ways this all could have panned out?

You're going to love Westbrook on the Rockets, but team will probably play differently because CP3 and Westbrook's games are so different.

JAZZNC
07-14-2019, 04:26 PM
I’ve found in life it’s almost never one or the other. It usually a blend of the two.

In life I've found that if you have a problem with everyone it's not everyone who has the problem.

JAZZNC
07-14-2019, 04:29 PM
I'm beginning to wonder it myself. As fans we see his barking and criticism on the floor and think of him as a leader. But maybe to players, he's just coming off as an arrogant *******. We don't hear everything he says or see the things that happen behind closed doors or in practice. Clearly the guy has gotten under the skin of other star players over the years, but because of who those guys are (Blake, Harden), it's hard to tell if it's younger immature guys who can't handle his legitimate criticism or if he's just a massive ******* who pisses everyone off. In 10-20 years, I'm looking forward to some behind-the-scenes Chris Paul stories that will inevitably start to trickle out in books and articles to see what kind of picture other players will paint of him.

Haven't really thought about that but yes, it will be interesting to see what comes out about him after he's out of the league a while.

Dré
07-14-2019, 06:05 PM
OKC is still a playoff team. And I don't just mean a fringe playoff team, they're a solid floor-spacing power forward that can rebound (a la Kevin Love) away from contending. Frankly, they don't need anyone as expensive as Love. Just someone young, cheap, and who is an efficient scorer capable of providing 3-point shooting and rebounding/defense. Think about it:

1-Chris Paul
2-Andre Roberson/Hamadou Diallo
3-Danilo Gallinari/Andre Roberson/Hamidou Diallo
4-PF???/Danilo Gallinari
5-Steven Adams

1-Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
2-Andre Roberson/Hamidou Diallo/Deonte Burton
3-Andre Roberson/Hamidou Diallo/Abdel Nader/Darius Bazley
4-PF???/Darius Bazley
5-Nerlens Noel

I suspect that if they can't find any takers for Paul. They'll move Schroeder instead (I'd move Ferguson as well---he's a bad player and won't get better), and attempt to remain relevant (which is actually the best move). With like a gazillion picks between now and 2030, and everybody but Bazley, Paul, and Gilgeous-Alexander's contracts set to expire in 2-seasons, OKC can set itself up to attract some marquee names in the summer of 2021 (when a bunch of big names become available). If OKC is legitimately contending (or even wins it all) between now and summer '21, OKC COULD land itself a superstar (to pair w/ Gilgeous-Alexander and the other young guys).

goingfor28
07-14-2019, 07:12 PM
Lol OKC is not a playoff team.
Clippers, Lakers, Rockets, Jazz, Warriors, Blazers, Nuggets, Spurs are all far better.
And Pelicans, Wolves, Kings are all better or at least equal.
OKC is at best the 8 seed, but likely around 10.

Dré
07-14-2019, 07:58 PM
Lol OKC is not a playoff team.
Clippers, Lakers, Rockets, Jazz, Warriors, Blazers, Nuggets, Spurs are all far better.
And Pelicans, Wolves, Kings are all better or at least equal.
OKC is at best the 8 seed, but likely around 10.

I agree about Clippers, Jazz, Lakers, and Nuggs. Spurs have Pop, a healthy Murray and some incoming young talent that may have matured (e.g., Derrick White, Jakob Poeltl, Lonnie Walker, et al), so I'll DEF give them the benefit of the doubt.

But outside of those five, Rockets may have regressed some (Westbrook doesn't offer the spacing and doesn't play nearly as well as Paul did off the ball---he'll have to completely re-invent himself offensively to make this marriage work). Blazers haven't really improved; Whiteside is a good player, but they lost Curry, Kanter, and Aminu, who were all really good players. And the Warriors have lost Cook, Durant, Iguodala, and Thompson; couple that with the fact that their bench was already thin, and they're not the juggernaut they were the last 5 seasons (Willie Cauley-Stein was a good pick up, but D-Lo is highly overrated).

I like OKC to contend for a spot with those three. And if they can pick up a good floor spacing PF that can rebound, they'll be a clear step above. I like the Pelicans as a team on the bubble. The Grizz made some nice rebuilding/retooling moves as well. The west will def be a blood bath as per usual.

Dré
07-14-2019, 08:04 PM
Lol OKC is not a playoff team.
Clippers, Lakers, Rockets, Jazz, Warriors, Blazers, Nuggets, Spurs are all far better.
And Pelicans, Wolves, Kings are all better or at least equal.
OKC is at best the 8 seed, but likely around 10.

People think CP's done, not realizing CP's touches and usage rate went down substantially in the two-years he was in Houston. CP saw the ball w/ less than 5 secs on the shot clock in 18% of situations last year (which ranked him 3rd among all eligible players---55 games or more---12th total). He saw the ball in situations where there was 8 secs or less 32% of the time. That means he was getting the ball late to very late a SUBSTANTIAL amount of time. And he still put up solid all-around numbers (17.6 points on 56% true shooting, 9.3 assists to 2.9 turns, 5.2 rebounds, and 2.3 swipes per 36 mins).

Just to get an even better idea of how good he was, In the 727 minutes Chris Paul played without James Harden last season, Paul averaged 22.5 points on 58.1% true shooting, 12.5 assists, and 5.4 rebounds per 36 mins. Rockets had a +10.4 Net Rating in those situations.

In the 876 minutes Chris Paul played without James Harden in 2017-18, Paul averaged 26.8 points on 61.7% true shooting, 11.5 assists, and 6.9 rebounds per 36 minutes. Rockets had a +13.5 Net Rating in those situations.

Saddletramp
07-14-2019, 08:44 PM
OKC is still a playoff team. And I don't just mean a fringe playoff team, they're a solid floor-spacing power forward that can rebound (a la Kevin Love) away from contending. Frankly, they don't need anyone as expensive as Love. Just someone young, cheap, and who is an efficient scorer capable of providing 3-point shooting and rebounding/defense. Think about it:

1-Chris Paul
2-Andre Roberson/Hamadou Diallo
3-Danilo Gallinari/Andre Roberson/Hamidou Diallo
4-PF???/Danilo Gallinari
5-Steven Adams

1-Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
2-Andre Roberson/Hamidou Diallo/Deonte Burton
3-Andre Roberson/Hamidou Diallo/Abdel Nader/Darius Bazley
4-PF???/Darius Bazley
5-Nerlens Noel

I suspect that if they can't find any takers for Paul. They'll move Schroeder instead (I'd move Ferguson as well---he's a bad player and won't get better), and attempt to remain relevant (which is actually the best move). With like a gazillion picks between now and 2030, and everybody but Bazley, Paul, and Gilgeous-Alexander's contracts set to expire in 2-seasons, OKC can set itself up to attract some marquee names in the summer of 2021 (when a bunch of big names become available). If OKC is legitimately contending (or even wins it all) between now and summer '21, OKC COULD land itself a superstar (to pair w/ Gilgeous-Alexander and the other young guys).

They’re not a playoff team. And the Thunder can have all of the cap money in the world, they’re not going to be signing the big names. Overpay for guys who missed out on the big teams? Sure. But to compete again, they’ll be doing it by drafting.

Dré
07-14-2019, 09:05 PM
They’re not a playoff team. And the Thunder can have all of the cap money in the world, they’re not going to be signing the big names. Overpay for guys who missed out on the big teams? Sure. But to compete again, they’ll be doing it by drafting.

Looming 2021 free agency aside, you're not providing a valid reason why the team isn't a playoff team?

I actually provided evidence that CP3 was putting up numbers reminiscent of what he historically has done w/ Harden off the floor (and to be clear, pre-Houston CP3 has been consistently great). Couple that with the fact that Gallinari is a good small forward; Adams is a great big (particularly good @ offensive rebounding---something tells me his rebounding totals will go up this season, call it a hunch); Nerlens is a great back up big (more than capable of filling in for Adams); Gilgeous-Alexander and Hamidou Diallo had really good rookie campaigns (and more than likely should improve in year 2); Deonte Burton had flashes last season in the spurt minutes he played; and Andre Roberson while being a terrible scorer, is a great perimeter defender (we'll see how the ACL injury impacts him moving forward).

If you move Schroeder and Ferguson for a piece or two, this is a better team than people realize. Those two are the only players I don't like. And I don't like Gallinari full time at PF.

Saddletramp
07-15-2019, 02:52 AM
Looming 2021 free agency aside, you're not providing a valid reason why the team isn't a playoff team?

I actually provided evidence that CP3 was putting up numbers reminiscent of what he historically has done w/ Harden off the floor (and to be clear, pre-Houston CP3 has been consistently great). Couple that with the fact that Gallinari is a good small forward; Adams is a great big (particularly good @ offensive rebounding---something tells me his rebounding totals will go up this season, call it a hunch); Nerlens is a great back up big (more than capable of filling in for Adams); Gilgeous-Alexander and Hamidou Diallo had really good rookie campaigns (and more than likely should improve in year 2); Deonte Burton had flashes last season in the spurt minutes he played; and Andre Roberson while being a terrible scorer, is a great perimeter defender (we'll see how the ACL injury impacts him moving forward).

If you move Schroeder and Ferguson for a piece or two, this is a better team than people realize. Those two are the only players I don't like. And I don't like Gallinari full time at PF.

Need a valid reason? Who are they better than? The Clippers? Lakers? Rockets? Blazers? Warriors? Jazz? Nuggets? Spurs? Barring injury, they’re not better than at least those 8 teams and maybe a few others. Guys don’t want to sign in small markets like that unless there are some other big names there and an old, overpaid CP3 and oft injured Gallinari aren’t enough to attract anyone. Presti got those picks to rebuild with something new. I’d expect everyone to be available for trade going forward.

More-Than-Most
07-15-2019, 03:58 AM
Chris Paul is overrated. Dude is horrible leader..

maybe but he on the court play is some of the best ever... Why dont I hear how **** certain other guys are as leaders? How about iggy... He has a finals MVP so I guess he is best leader ever? The leader **** gets super overvalued... Right now CP3 isnt going to be a good player to have because of what he is owed and how he is declining... The not a good leader **** is over blown and stupid.

Rivera
07-15-2019, 12:23 PM
i dont know who will trade for that contract. Granted I said the same thing before the RWB trade but I really dont know who will trade for it and who has a bad contract on their roster to swap out of it.

IF HE GETS BOUGHT OUT

the best fits are in order:

The Lakers
The Heat
The Nuggs
The Bucks
The 76ers

Dré
07-15-2019, 12:48 PM
Need a valid reason? Who are they better than? The Clippers? Lakers? Rockets? Blazers? Warriors? Jazz? Nuggets? Spurs? Barring injury, they’re not better than at least those 8 teams and maybe a few others. Guys don’t want to sign in small markets like that unless there are some other big names there and an old, overpaid CP3 and oft injured Gallinari aren’t enough to attract anyone. Presti got those picks to rebuild with something new. I’d expect everyone to be available for trade going forward.

Already addressed that (so don't care to really re-hash it ad-nauseam):


I agree about Clippers, Jazz, Lakers, and Nuggs. Spurs have Pop, a healthy Murray and some incoming young talent that may have matured (e.g., Derrick White, Jakob Poeltl, Lonnie Walker, et al), so I'll DEF give them the benefit of the doubt.

But outside of those five, Rockets may have regressed some (Westbrook doesn't offer the spacing and doesn't play nearly as well as Paul did off the ball---he'll have to completely re-invent himself offensively to make this marriage work). Blazers haven't really improved; Whiteside is a good player, but they lost Curry, Kanter, and Aminu, who were all really good players. And the Warriors have lost Cook, Durant, Iguodala, and Thompson; couple that with the fact that their bench was already thin, and they're not the juggernaut they were the last 5 seasons (Willie Cauley-Stein was a good pick up, but D-Lo is highly overrated).

I like OKC to contend for a spot with those three. And if they can pick up a good floor spacing PF that can rebound, they'll be a clear step above. I like the Pelicans as a team on the bubble. The Grizz made some nice rebuilding/retooling moves as well. The west will def be a blood bath as per usual.

Barring any rookies (that were recently drafted) emerging for one of those teams (or all three), I expect some regression for those latter three. None have gotten better from last year (especially the Blazers and Warriors who saw multiple good role players of there's leave via free agency---or in the case of Thompson, out due to injury).

And sure, Presti got the picks to KEEP building through the draft. That doesn't mean he'll tear everything down if he can't find any suitors for Paul. If they can't move Paul (which I think for now, most teams are leery of his contract), pretty sure he's going to be attempting to field the best team possible (especially IF he feels there's a chance the Thunder may have to pay the repeater's tax). That said, I do expect him to move Schroeder, just because he's def not getting playing time over either Paul or Gilgeous-Alexander (who is viewed as a future piece of the franchise), and isn't suited to play the guard-forward spots like Burton, Diallo, and Roberson. Terrance Ferguson probably won't get moved, but if he can get buried behind Diallo and Roberson, he won't hurt them as much. Like I said, this team is a legit floor spacing PF that can rebound away from being a dark horse out west.


IF HE GETS BOUGHT OUT

He's not getting bought out LOL!!!

Rivera
07-15-2019, 01:06 PM
He's not getting bought out LOL!!!

I should bookmark this post like I did with the MBT post about there is no dysfunction with CP3 and CP3 not going anywhere :laugh2:

I just dont see which bad contracts add up to get CP3 on a contender that needs a PG. Thats ALOT lol. The 2 contracts that come to mind is Batum and Wall but CP3 doesnt want to be on a rebuild

Wiggins? but Minnesota is a rebuild

Gordon Hayward? but they just got Kemba

Jrue Holliday? But the Pels arent a contender

KLove? Cavs not a contender

Otto Porter? Bulls Not a Contender

Maybe my Magic make a call and trade Vucevic? but why would my Magic do it? Resign a guy in his prime for someone past his prime?

Whiteside? But Portland already has 2 small guards

OKC going to bring back Reggie Jackson? Maybe do a Jackson + for CP3? Get CP3 reunited with Blake? :laugh2:

like I honestly have no idea what a CP3 trade looks like. Rox got lucky RWB wanted out

Dré
07-15-2019, 02:09 PM
I should bookmark this post like I did with the MBT post about there is no dysfunction with CP3 and CP3 not going anywhere :laugh2:

I didn't say CP's getting moved. If you'd read any of my other posts, I make it quite clear I don't think that's something that's very likely to happen unless Presti gives up valuable assets (draft picks, a young player, etc), which I frankly doubt he's dumb enough to do (and to be sure, Presti's done a lot of dumb ish over the years).

I'm just saying he's not getting bought out. Even a balanced 50-50 split (which will NEVER happen btw) would mean that the team would be leaving 62 mil on the table (for Paul to do essentially nothing---a team that din even wanna pay James Harden because they wanted to avoid the luxury tax), and conversely, Paul would be leaving the same amount as well. What team or player have you ever heard of, that's willingly left 62 mil on the table??? Chances are neither side is looking to give up that much, which means that it's even less likely that either side would be willing to settle for the shorter end of the stick (and give up even more money---which is what it would take to agree to a buyout). Sure Paul cares about putting himself in the best situation possible to win a chip, but he also cares more about taking care of his family.

The only team I remember doing this, are the HEAT with Chris Bosh (though I think they waived him as opposed to outright buying him out---can't remember). But Bosh had blood clots and the HEAT's medical staff likely knew he would never play again (or at least, they knew that the likelihood of him playing again was next to zilch).

I don't see a buyout. CP unlike Bosh is still a valuable player, capable of putting any team (especially Clips/Lakers truly over the top). No sane organization is paying him boatloads of cash, to just go and sign for a 1-year vet min, to help a rival western conf team win a trophy.

Saddletramp
07-15-2019, 02:24 PM
While I agree that he’s not going to get bought out (maybe towards the very end of his contract but definitely not anytime soon), I just don’t see Presti trying to contend with this group. His best bet is to continue to sell off pieces for picks.


We’ll just have to wait and see.

Rivera
07-15-2019, 02:25 PM
I didn't say CP's getting moved. If you'd read any of my other posts, I make it quite clear I don't think that's something that's very likely to happen unless Presti gives up valuable assets (draft picks, a young player, etc), which I frankly doubt he's dumb enough to do (and to be sure, Presti's done a lot of dumb ish over the years).

I'm just saying he's not getting bought out. Even a balanced 50-50 split (which will NEVER happen btw) would mean that the team would be leaving 62 mil on the table (for Paul to do essentially nothing---a team that din even wanna pay James Harden because they wanted to avoid the luxury tax), and conversely, Paul would be leaving the same amount as well. What team or player have you ever heard of, that's willingly left 62 mil on the table??? Chances are neither side is looking to give up that much, which means that it's even less likely that either side would be willing to settle for the shorter end of the stick (and give up even more money---which is what it would take to agree to a buyout). Sure Paul cares about putting himself in the best situation possible to win a chip, but he also cares more about taking care of his family.

The only team I remember doing this, are the HEAT with Chris Bosh (though I think they waived him as opposed to outright buying him out---can't remember). But Bosh had blood clots and the HEAT's medical staff likely knew he would never play again (or at least, they knew that the likelihood of him playing again was next to zilch).

I don't see a buyout. CP unlike Bosh is still a valuable player, capable of putting any team (especially Clips/Lakers truly over the top). No sane organization is paying him boatloads of cash, to just go and sign for a 1-year vet min, to help a rival western conf team win a trophy.

yea i totally ignored your OKC posts because I think your crazy to think they could still be a playoff team AND

you said they need a stretch 4. They already have a stretch 4 in Gallanari, hes much more suited to be a stretch 4 than a natural 3, not quick enough.

They would be lucky to win 30 games with their current roster even with CP3

Rivera
07-15-2019, 02:29 PM
While I agree that he’s not going to get bought out (maybe towards the very end of his contract but definitely not anytime soon), I just don’t see Presti trying to contend with this group. His best bet is to continue to sell off pieces for picks.


We’ll just have to wait and see.

a buy out and leaving money on the CAP would suck for OKC but im not sure of there other options. I listed a majority of bad contracts and most of the one with bad contracts are on teams who arent contenders. 3ways to complicated for me to figure out because it looks like thats the only way a CP3 deal would get done but OKC isnt counting to have CP3 on its roster next season. according to WOJ:


ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski mentioned that the Heat were interested in making a move for Paul. During Friday's episode of "Get Up," Woj reiterated that Miami is the main focus, adding that OKC doesn't intend to have Chris Paul wear the Thunder uniform this season.

Saddletramp
07-15-2019, 02:36 PM
a buy out and leaving money on the CAP would suck for OKC but im not sure of there other options. I listed a majority of bad contracts and most of the one with bad contracts are on teams who arent contenders. 3ways to complicated for me to figure out because it looks like thats the only way a CP3 deal would get done but OKC isnt counting to have CP3 on its roster next season. according to WOJ:

Good luck moving him. If they can trade him for Miami’s fillers, maybe those fillers get turned into picks. I’m sure someone will give up a future second for Meyers Leonard or Kelly Olynyk. Meh, like I said, we’ll see.

Dré
07-15-2019, 06:32 PM
yea i totally ignored your OKC posts because I think your crazy to think they could still be a playoff team AND

you said they need a stretch 4. They already have a stretch 4 in Gallanari, hes much more suited to be a stretch 4 than a natural 3, not quick enough.

This essentially proves you know nothing about basketball. Gallinari has played majority of his career as a small forward, very nearly ~60% of his minutes as an SF (which is his natural position anyways). Has he played PF? Yes ofc he has (this is an NBA with an emphasis on going small---not realizing that you should only go small, when you have small guys that can play like "big guys"). But he's not suited to play it. He gets routinely manhandled by the better power forwards. And also isn't a good rebounder (he gives up too many offensive boards).

For context, Gallinari played 64% of his minutes as an SF in 17-18, and 57% of them in 18-19. Dude is an SF. Which is why I said I don't like him playing PF full time. They need a stretch PF. A real stretch PF is someone like Kevin Love. I'm not expecting anyone that great, but if Presti makes a move for a good solid one, OKC has all the pieces to be a dark horse. Gallinari's def a good SF, Adams is a great center, Paul is a phenomenal point guard when you unleash him, Roberson is a great wing defender, Nerlens is a great back up big (more than capable of filling in when Adams goes out), and they have some talented young players in Diallo and Gilgeous-Alexander who SHOULD improve from year 1 to year 2 (though ofc, that's never a guarantee).

Good stretch PF that can rebound is all they need.


They would be lucky to win 30 games with their current roster even with CP3

Yeh, the last time CP wasn't completely relegated to being a last second shooter, and played just 60-games (in LAC), he produced 15 wins on his own. But you can believe what you want to.

Dré
07-15-2019, 06:44 PM
Good luck moving him. If they can trade him for Miami’s fillers, maybe those fillers get turned into picks. I’m sure someone will give up a future second for Meyers Leonard or Kelly Olynyk. Meh, like I said, we’ll see.

Problem is, the perception surrounding CP currently is so negative (and it's largely overblown), that not only will OKC have to likely take bad players, e.g., Dragic and Waiters, but they'll have to give up a number of picks to get up from under CP's contract. Which is stupid. Not only is OKC losing a SUBSTANTIALLY superior player in Paul, and gaining EXTREMELY bad players in return, but they'll be mortgaging part of their future as well.

Like I said, Presti is better off flipping Schroeder for something (maybe a solid stretch PF), and just competing for a playoff spot. The picks are still valuable. Because there's plenty value outside of the lottery anyways (e.g., both Giannis and Kawhi @ 15, Butler @ 30). And some of those future picks might wind up being lottery picks (e.g., Miami's in a few years).

It's better to already be a good team, as opposed to tanking. You can use the draft to make that good team, into a great team (if you select wisely).

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-15-2019, 06:46 PM
I still think OKC will find a trade partner for CP3, but even if he did stay in OKC, I don't think you can ignore the human element of him probably not wanting to be there. I feel like it would be a toxic environment and that CP3 wouldn't be fully engaged in giving his full effort (certainly not on defense).

However, if you could prove to me that CP3 was fully engaged in playing for OKC and trying to make the playoffs, and that his heart was in it, then I think that team would have a decent shot at the playoffs. I think realistically, I'd rank them somewhere between the 9th and 11th seed in the West heading into the year, but they'd have a shot at being the 7th or 8th seed.

But again, I don't think you can ignore the human element of CP3 not wanting to be there. No way this guy wants to be on a team that just traded two superstars and is clearly entering a rebuild. His heart won't be in it IMO and for that reason, this team won't be a serious threat to sneak into the playoffs as a low seed. And again, I think there is a low percentage that he actually plays a game for the Thunder this season. I think they will find a way to move him or he will hold out until it happens. I don't see him playing games for that team.

Alayla
07-15-2019, 07:49 PM
I should bookmark this post like I did with the MBT post about there is no dysfunction with CP3 and CP3 not going anywhere :laugh2:

I just dont see which bad contracts add up to get CP3 on a contender that needs a PG. Thats ALOT lol. The 2 contracts that come to mind is Batum and Wall but CP3 doesnt want to be on a rebuild

Wiggins? but Minnesota is a rebuild

Gordon Hayward? but they just got Kemba

Jrue Holliday? But the Pels arent a contender

KLove? Cavs not a contender

Otto Porter? Bulls Not a Contender

Maybe my Magic make a call and trade Vucevic? but why would my Magic do it? Resign a guy in his prime for someone past his prime?

Whiteside? But Portland already has 2 small guards

OKC going to bring back Reggie Jackson? Maybe do a Jackson + for CP3? Get CP3 reunited with Blake? :laugh2:

like I honestly have no idea what a CP3 trade looks like. Rox got lucky RWB wanted out

In what universe is holiday a bad contract especially one you would move for cp3 he's in his prime coming off 21 and 8 as well as all defense honors i sware most of you have never seen him play once in your lives

Dré
07-15-2019, 08:04 PM
I still think OKC will find a trade partner for CP3, but even if he did stay in OKC, I don't think you can ignore the human element of him probably not wanting to be there. I feel like it would be a toxic environment and that CP3 wouldn't be fully engaged in giving his full effort (certainly not on defense).

However, if you could prove to me that CP3 was fully engaged in playing for OKC and trying to make the playoffs, and that his heart was in it, then I think that team would have a decent shot at the playoffs. I think realistically, I'd rank them somewhere between the 9th and 11th seed in the West heading into the year, but they'd have a shot at being the 7th or 8th seed.

But again, I don't think you can ignore the human element of CP3 not wanting to be there. No way this guy wants to be on a team that just traded two superstars and is clearly entering a rebuild. His heart won't be in it IMO and for that reason, this team won't be a serious threat to sneak into the playoffs as a low seed. And again, I think there is a low percentage that he actually plays a game for the Thunder this season. I think they will find a way to move him or he will hold out until it happens. I don't see him playing games for that team.

Look I don't think that it isn't that Presti doesn't want to trade Paul. But a trade would cost the team future assets (in young players, draft picks, etc); in exchange for horrible players that truly won't help you win squat. Yes, someone could argue that at least they'll move Paul's albatross off their books and might be able to regain some of those picks back by moving Adams. But I'm not 100% sure what Adams' trade value is at the moment, and how much EXACTLY he could feasibly fetch OKC in a trade. Presti shouldn't just be looking to press the reset button just like that, he should be looking to set OKC up for the future AND competing (like San Antonio did w/ Leonard).

Paul can't hold out, because the CBA specifically protects teams from player hold outs unlike in the NFL. If he holds out for more than 30-days, he will be in direct violation of his contractual obligations, which can have dire long-term consequences. There's a reason Jimmy and Kawhi chose not to hold-out.

Article XI, Section 3 states:


A player who withholds playing services called for by a Player Contract for more than thirty (30) days after the start of the last Season covered by his Player Contract shall be deemed not to have "completed his Player Contract by rending the playing services called for thereunder." Accordingly, such a player shall not be a Veteran Free Agent and shall not be entitled to negotiate or sign a Player Contract with any other professional basketball team unless and until the Team for which the player last played expressly agrees otherwise.

The only thing Paul can do is perhaps exaggerate an injury? I don't see him attempting to hold out. At least not unless he plans on playing professional basketball (in the NBA) again.

buckalis
07-15-2019, 08:04 PM
I should bookmark this post like I did with the MBT post about there is no dysfunction with CP3 and CP3 not going anywhere :laugh2:

I just dont see which bad contracts add up to get CP3 on a contender that needs a PG. Thats ALOT lol. The 2 contracts that come to mind is Batum and Wall but CP3 doesnt want to be on a rebuild

Wiggins? but Minnesota is a rebuild

Gordon Hayward? but they just got Kemba

Jrue Holliday? But the Pels arent a contender

KLove? Cavs not a contender

Otto Porter? Bulls Not a Contender

Maybe my Magic make a call and trade Vucevic? but why would my Magic do it? Resign a guy in his prime for someone past his prime?

Whiteside? But Portland already has 2 small guards

OKC going to bring back Reggie Jackson? Maybe do a Jackson + for CP3? Get CP3 reunited with Blake? :laugh2:

like I honestly have no idea what a CP3 trade looks like. Rox got lucky RWB wanted out

Mozgov + Fournier

LeonFSU
07-15-2019, 09:50 PM
Mozgov + Fournier
Mozgone

Saddletramp
07-16-2019, 02:58 AM
Problem is, the perception surrounding CP currently is so negative (and it's largely overblown), that not only will OKC have to likely take bad players, e.g., Dragic and Waiters, but they'll have to give up a number of picks to get up from under CP's contract. Which is stupid. Not only is OKC losing a SUBSTANTIALLY superior player in Paul, and gaining EXTREMELY bad players in return, but they'll be mortgaging part of their future as well.

Like I said, Presti is better off flipping Schroeder for something (maybe a solid stretch PF), and just competing for a playoff spot. The picks are still valuable. Because there's plenty value outside of the lottery anyways (e.g., both Giannis and Kawhi @ 15, Butler @ 30). And some of those future picks might wind up being lottery picks (e.g., Miami's in a few years).

It's better to already be a good team, as opposed to tanking. You can use the draft to make that good team, into a great team (if you select wisely).

Dragic is not “EXTREMELY” bad, plus, anybody coming over will be expiring so they get under the tax line going forward and hope some of these picks hit. If I’m Presti, and I know Miami wants Paul, I just wait it out. No point in getting the trade this early if it’s going to cost him and Miami seems to be the only team willing to take him. Worst case, OKC keeps him and sheds others for assets when the time is right.


But Presti is rebuilding. If he keeps who he has going into the season and they mesh well and some other team(s) get hurt and they sneak into the playoffs? Great. But he’s not going to try to win with these guys. Even if the Thunder are a low seed around the deadline and he can get assets for whomever, he will. The Thunder aren’t going to be winning a title anytime soon so why delay the inevitable.


Why am I still rambling on about this?

TylerSL
07-16-2019, 04:57 AM
Dragic is not “EXTREMELY” bad, plus, anybody coming over will be expiring so they get under the tax line going forward and hope some of these picks hit. If I’m Presti, and I know Miami wants Paul, I just wait it out. No point in getting the trade this early if it’s going to cost him and Miami seems to be the only team willing to take him. Worst case, OKC keeps him and sheds others for assets when the time is right.


But Presti is rebuilding. If he keeps who he has going into the season and they mesh well and some other team(s) get hurt and they sneak into the playoffs? Great. But he’s not going to try to win with these guys. Even if the Thunder are a low seed around the deadline and he can get assets for whomever, he will. The Thunder aren’t going to be winning a title anytime soon so why delay the inevitable.


Why am I still rambling on about this?

I think that if Miami really wanted Chris Paul he would have been traded already. It's not that he wouldn't help the Heat next year, but his contract is ultra terrible. Last year was his age 33-34 season, and his numbers dipped across the board. His FG% dropped from .460 in 17-18 to .419, a career worst. He ultimately posted a career worst in all of these categories; FG% (.419), PPG (15.6), PER (19.7), Turnover% (15.8%), Win Shares (6.6), Win Shares per 48 min (.172), and Value over Replacement Player (2.4 points per 100 team possessions).

Chris Paul went from being a perennial All Star in 17-18 to starter-level NBA player last year, and he got paid $35.65 million. Even if he doesn't decline and just remains a starter level player next year, he'll be paid $38.51 million. Then in his age 35-36 season he'll make $41.36 million before getting a player option of $44.21 million in his age 36-37 season. You have to imagine that he'll continue to perform worse as he ages, and after this upcoming season he'll be 35 and have 2 years $85.57 million left owed to him. No way Miami, or anyone, would be excited about that.

Simply put, it's not worth it for Miami to give up anything to get him. In fact they would have to be compensated to take him. If they do get him they'd be marginally better in 19-20 at best, and be locked above the luxury tax with a declining player making over $40 million for the next two years after. For arguments sake, let's say the Heat move Dragic, Waiters, and Myers Leonard for CP3, basically just a salary match, this is how much salary Miami would have on the books for the next 3 years

2019-20-$131,354,270 committed to 12 players (against a $109 million soft cap, $132 million tax)
2020-21-$137,219,732 committed to 10 players (against a $118 million soft cap, $143 million tax)
2021-22 $102,389,866 committed to 4 players (CP3/Butler/Winslow/Herro)

Getting CP3 means Miami would definitely be in the luxury tax each of the next three years with no championship window, in fact the team would almost certainly get worse over these three years. On top of that, they don't own their own 1st round pick in either 2021 or 2023. So acquiring CP3 would give the Heat no cap space, at a time when they have a very limited supply of 1st round draft picks.

With all that in mind I don't imagine Miami is actually all that interested in trading for CP3. Not unless the Thunder are willing to give the Heat a couple first round picks as well. Considering it's the Thunder who own Miami's picks in 2021 and 2023, maybe if they give the Heat both of their picks back it might help them consider it. But the idea that it's Miami who wants Chris Paul is probably not true. I hope not at least.

Note-The 2020-21 salary number is not including their 2020 1st round pick

Dré
07-16-2019, 09:46 AM
I think that if Miami really wanted Chris Paul he would have been traded already. It's not that he wouldn't help the Heat next year, but his contract is ultra terrible. Last year was his age 33-34 season, and his numbers dipped across the board. His FG% dropped from .460 in 17-18 to .419, a career worst. He ultimately posted a career worst in all of these categories; FG% (.419), PPG (15.6), PER (19.7), Turnover% (15.8%), Win Shares (6.6), Win Shares per 48 min (.172), and Value over Replacement Player (2.4 points per 100 team possessions).

This is a quality post. And I frankly respect you for taking the time to go out and do your research, few of the posters on here do. Most wouldn't even take the time to read it lol.

That said, I don't completely agree with your take. For one, there's PLENTY of evidence to suggest that the scheme in Houston hurt Paul's ability to be his most effective self (with the exception of his high turnover numbers on far fewer touches---high relative to his historical track record of minimizing turns). For two, he wasn't merely "starter level;" using Dean Oliver's total win shares (when you account for the total number of games played), and win shares per 48 as a reference model, he was very easily @ star or very near star level (anytime he was on the court). Dave Berri's wins produced model also confirms him to have been a star caliber player (https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/211-chris-paul) (when on the court). And that was DESPITE his reduced efficacy in D'Antoni's scheme.

I made note of this in an earlier post of mine,


People think CP's done, not realizing CP's touches and usage rate went down substantially in the two-years he was in Houston. CP saw the ball w/ less than 5 secs on the shot clock in 18% of situations last year (which ranked him 3rd among all eligible players---w/ 55 games or more---12th total). He saw the ball in situations where there was 8 secs or less 32% of the time. That means he was getting the ball late to very late a SUBSTANTIAL amount of time. And he still put up solid all-around numbers (17.6 points on 56% true shooting, 9.3 assists to 2.9 turns, 5.2 rebounds, and 2.3 swipes per 36 mins).

Just to get an even better idea of how good he was, in the 727 minutes Chris Paul played without James Harden last season, Paul averaged 22.5 points on 58.1% true shooting, 12.5 assists, and 5.4 rebounds per 36 mins. Rockets had a +10.4 Net Rating in those situations.

In the 876 minutes Chris Paul played without James Harden in 2017-18, Paul averaged 26.8 points on 61.7% true shooting, 11.5 assists, and 6.9 rebounds per 36 minutes. Rockets had a +13.5 Net Rating in those situations.

CP is still one of the best PGs in the game (when available). The problem lies in is health, which is obviously a concern to anyone taking on his contract. Realistically, I do expect there to be some degree of attrition and inevitable decline as his career enters its twilight. That said, I do also think that with his minutes well managed, and his court appearances restricted to like a 65-game maximum, he could still be extremely productive and worth his contract (at least for the next two years---age 34 and age 35).

-----

I agree w/ the rest of what you said though. But more so because the PERCEPTION surrounding him is so negative. Which is why I don't think Presti should attempt to trade him. Most teams will look to fleece him, and will more than likely gain a substantially superior player in return. If I'm Presti I sign PF Christian Wood who just got waived, and move Schroeder for another 3-and-D big. I'd also bring back Sefolosha (in reduced minutes in Utah, Sef was still a good wing---60% true shooting, and provided valuable rebounding, and ball thievery as per usual).

beasted86
07-16-2019, 02:09 PM
Jerami Grant was exactly the mold of player you say the Thunder need to complete their puzzle and they traded him away.

It's clear regardless of what you think they should do their actions are a commitment to the otherwise.

So the answer to this thread's proposition is they need to trade him to a team that can make the playoffs with his services along with saving both immediate term and long term salary.

My suggestion is Minnesota for Wiggins. He'll be the tank commander for OKC. Trade him once the "combination" restriction falls off in like September. Wiggins and Dieng for Paul and Robertson.

Dré
07-16-2019, 04:23 PM
Jerami Grant was exactly the mold of player you say the Thunder need to complete their puzzle and they traded him away.

It's clear regardless of what you think they should do their actions are a commitment to the otherwise.

So the answer to this thread's proposition is they need to trade him to a team that can make the playoffs with his services along with saving both immediate term and long term salary.

My suggestion is Minnesota for Wiggins. He'll be the tank commander for OKC. Trade him once the "combination" restriction falls off in like September. Wiggins and Dieng for Paul and Robertson.

How was he "the mold of player" I was talking about???

I said space the floor AND rebound!!! Jerami Grant was a 6-10 big who averaged 7.7 rebounds PER 48 MINS!!!!! Let that sink in for a second. I'm being very generous here, by providing you w/ his per 48 minute rebound numbers, and not his actual per game averages. Dude could block shots and shoot, and he was hyper athletic, but he couldn't really do anything outside of that.

Christian Wood can shoot, block shots, AND rebound (REALLY WELL). I'd rather take a flyer on a young really cheap big (that ain't gon cost me ish), and sign Sef to a vet min contract. I don't want to solely rely on Muscala and Gallinari.

Additionally, Jerami Grant was traded BEFORE Russ was traded. They didn't know what they were getting for Russ. It was initially assumed the likeliest trade destination was Miami, and that they were gonna get expirings, and some young assets in return. They got Paul instead, and have been unable to move him since (and likely won't). That changes everything.

I'd also seek to flip Patterson (expiring), Schroeder (2-yrs), and Ferguson (2-yrs) and net Batum (who has 1-yr and a player option) and a pick(s). Not only do you shed salary w/ this move, but you gain a really good veteran role player, and get some value for a later draft(s). And his contract is off your books by summer of 2021 at the latest.

beasted86
07-16-2019, 06:34 PM
How was he "the mold of player" I was talking about???

I said space the floor AND rebound!!! Jerami Grant was a 6-10 big who averaged 7.7 rebounds PER 48 MINS!!!!! Let that sink in for a second. I'm being very generous here, by providing you w/ his per 48 minute rebound numbers, and not his actual per game averages. Dude could block shots and shoot, and he was hyper athletic, but he couldn't really do anything outside of that.

Christian Wood can shoot, block shots, AND rebound (REALLY WELL). I'd rather take a flyer on a young really cheap big (that ain't gon cost me ish), and sign Sef to a vet min contract. I don't want to solely rely on Muscala and Gallinari.

Additionally, Jerami Grant was traded BEFORE Russ was traded. They didn't know what they were getting for Russ. It was initially assumed the likeliest trade destination was Miami, and that they were gonna get expirings, and some young assets in return. They got Paul instead, and have been unable to move him since (and likely won't). That changes everything.

I'd also seek to flip Patterson (expiring), Schroeder (2-yrs), and Ferguson (2-yrs) and net Batum (who has 1-yr and a player option) and a pick(s). Not only do you shed salary w/ this move, but you gain a really good veteran role player, and get some value for a later draft(s). And his contract is off your books by summer of 2021 at the latest.

Your point doesn't relate to the high value of Grant and the direction of the Thunder going forward given they just traded him for a pick. They traded him after moving PG. Trading PG signified a rebuild (not a retool to make another playoff run).

Them getting Paul doesn't change anything in my opinion. I believe Wolves would do the trade that I suggested, and if not that then there are other moves also with other teams. Pacifying Paul and/or making a low playoff seed (or worse, just missing the playoffs) doesn't help the Thunder in the short or long term. A top 6 pick given their small market is the best tool to improve the team. Focusing exclusively on the draft and development of young players should be the team's goals.

Rivera
07-17-2019, 09:07 AM
This essentially proves you know nothing about basketball. Gallinari has played majority of his career as a small forward, very nearly ~60% of his minutes as an SF (which is his natural position anyways). Has he played PF? Yes ofc he has (this is an NBA with an emphasis on going small---not realizing that you should only go small, when you have small guys that can play like "big guys"). But he's not suited to play it. He gets routinely manhandled by the better power forwards. And also isn't a good rebounder (he gives up too many offensive boards).

For context, Gallinari played 64% of his minutes as an SF in 17-18, and 57% of them in 18-19. Dude is an SF. Which is why I said I don't like him playing PF full time. They need a stretch PF. A real stretch PF is someone like Kevin Love. I'm not expecting anyone that great, but if Presti makes a move for a good solid one, OKC has all the pieces to be a dark horse. Gallinari's def a good SF, Adams is a great center, Paul is a phenomenal point guard when you unleash him, Roberson is a great wing defender, Nerlens is a great back up big (more than capable of filling in when Adams goes out), and they have some talented young players in Diallo and Gilgeous-Alexander who SHOULD improve from year 1 to year 2 (though ofc, that's never a guarantee).

Good stretch PF that can rebound is all they need.



Yeh, the last time CP wasn't completely relegated to being a last second shooter, and played just 60-games (in LAC), he produced 15 wins on his own. But you can believe what you want to.

you do realize that the majority of basketball teams play position-less now and Harris/Gallo, Green/Gallo basically switch back and forth, especially on defense depending on which teams forward is better? but im the one with low IQ? and you think OKC is going to be in the playoffs?

okay buddy.

we were having a respectful basketball conversation, but clearly thats done now


In what universe is holiday a bad contract especially one you would move for cp3 he's in his prime coming off 21 and 8 as well as all defense honors i sware most of you have never seen him play once in your lives

its not that its a bad contract, its just a contract you can match with CP3. Plus hes a max contract for a player who isnt max worthy. Hes not an allstar consistently. Hes worth about least 10 mil less than his current deal.

Bad contract is not the same as a bad player. you are getting the 2 mixed up. Plus a team needs that type of contract on their roster, or a bunch of 10-20 mil on their roster just to match the CP3 contract.

i swear, some of you dont read or actually think without posting

I can do that too :wink:

WaDe03
07-17-2019, 09:53 AM
If he doesn’t deny that PO I would think he’s stuck unless OKC wants to offer up multiple picks.

Dré
07-17-2019, 02:07 PM
Your point doesn't relate to the high value of Grant and the direction of the Thunder going forward given they just traded him for a pick. They traded him after moving PG. Trading PG signified a rebuild (not a retool to make another playoff run)...

The point does "relate." I'm fairly certain that Presti realized Grant's value was no better than Muscala's (which he'd be 100% correct in assuming---neither is the greatest floor stretching PF, but they can both stroke it from distance); Muscala does it at a fraction of the cost (of Grant's 9 million dollar salary). Outside athleticism (which Grant can provide lots of), there's legit nothing Grant has over Muscala statistically (adjusted per minute). Actually, (per minute), I'd argue Muscala has been statistically the superior (if only just a tad). Better OVERALL career efficiency numbers, better per minute rebounding numbers, better per minute assist numbers, comparable at forcing turns, comparable at turning it over, comparable at shot blocking (Grant is slightly better), and comparable at staying out of foul trouble (Muscala is marginally better). There's not much one has over the other, so Presti just dumped a bad contract tbh to sign a comparable player (at less than a tenth of the cost---1.6 mil vs 18.7 over the next 2-yrs).

Like I said, I agree that after the PG trade, the plan was to move Russ, Grant, and probably guys like Adams and Schroeder. But trading for Paul, and the fact that he's had trouble moving him, has opened up the door on Presti keeping this group to see what they can do. Presti has made some bad moves, but he ain't completely dumb. Paul's value is diminished mostly because of perception. Which means that Presti will likely have to take on really bad players (on expiring deals) AND give up draft picks in order to move him (e.g., like with Miami). OR in the case of teams like the T-Wolves, take on a trash player like Wiggins AND his bad contract (~122.4 million across 4-yrs---with no team or player option lol). No sane GM is making that move. No sane GM would take Wiggins' contract over Paul's. Youth aside, EVERYONE knows how bad Wiggins has been, and everyone knows he is being payed almost as much as Paul to play that poorly. Regardless of what the market's perception is (surrounding Paul), no one believes him to be as bad as Wiggins.

I'm sure Presti will listen to offers between now and training camp. But if nothing favorable pops up. He'll likely start out the season with most of the group he currently has (with maybe a few tweaks here and there). If the 2-nd year players don't improve, injuries take their toll, Donovan opts for bad rotations, and regression from the vets hits the team hard, they probably won't be very good, and Presti may look to move important pieces like Adams, Gallinari, and def Schroeder if he wasn't moved prior to training camp (all for a mix of expiring deals, young players, and picks). But even then, I don't know whether Paul gets moved (as he's the only asset that's depreciated in perception around the league). I could see that if Paul put up monster numbers (despite the supporting cast underperforming, being injured, etc), and Presti gets mind blowing offers. But for Wiggins my guy??? :laugh:

Giannis94
07-17-2019, 02:09 PM
Chris paul should go to OKC. He was largely in charge of getting these big deals. Now he sould sleep in the bed he made.

beasted86
07-17-2019, 03:55 PM
The point does "relate." I'm fairly certain that Presti realized Grant's value was no better than Muscala's (which he'd be 100% correct in assuming---neither is the greatest floor stretching PF, but they can both stroke it from distance); Muscala does it at a fraction of the cost (of Grant's 9 million dollar salary). Outside athleticism (which Grant can provide lots of), there's legit nothing Grant has over Muscala statistically (adjusted per minute). Actually, (per minute), I'd argue Muscala has been statistically the superior (if only just a tad). Better OVERALL career efficiency numbers, better per minute rebounding numbers, better per minute assist numbers, comparable at forcing turns, comparable at turning it over, comparable at shot blocking (Grant is slightly better), and comparable at staying out of foul trouble (Muscala is marginally better). There's not much one has over the other, so Presti just dumped a bad contract tbh to sign a comparable player (at less than a tenth of the cost---1.6 mil vs 18.7 over the next 2-yrs).

Like I said, I agree that after the PG trade, the plan was to move Russ, Grant, and probably guys like Adams and Schroeder. But trading for Paul, and the fact that he's had trouble moving him, has opened up the door on Presti keeping this group to see what they can do. Presti has made some bad moves, but he ain't completely dumb. Paul's value is diminished mostly because of perception. Which means that Presti will likely have to take on really bad players (on expiring deals) AND give up draft picks in order to move him (e.g., like with Miami). OR in the case of teams like the T-Wolves, take on a trash player like Wiggins AND his bad contract (~122.4 million across 4-yrs---with no team or player option lol). No sane GM is making that move. No sane GM would take Wiggins' contract over Paul's. Youth aside, EVERYONE knows how bad Wiggins has been, and everyone knows he is being payed almost as much as Paul to play that poorly. Regardless of what the market's perception is (surrounding Paul), no one believes him to be as bad as Wiggins.

I'm sure Presti will listen to offers between now and training camp. But if nothing favorable pops up. He'll likely start out the season with most of the group he currently has (with maybe a few tweaks here and there). If the 2-nd year players don't improve, injuries take their toll, Donovan opts for bad rotations, and regression from the vets hits the team hard, they probably won't be very good, and Presti may look to move important pieces like Adams, Gallinari, and def Schroeder if he wasn't moved prior to training camp (all for a mix of expiring deals, young players, and picks). But even then, I don't know whether Paul gets moved (as he's the only asset that's depreciated in perception around the league). I could see that if Paul put up monster numbers (despite the supporting cast underperforming, being injured, etc), and Presti gets mind blowing offers. But for Wiggins my guy??? :laugh:

It's funny how you overrate guys who aren't in the regular rotation. Anyway, Wiggins makes a fine tank commander. The point is you DON'T want to win if you're the Thunder. So why exactly is Paul better than Wiggins when that's the end goal? Plus if you get lucky he balls out in his contract year and gives a nice return just around the time frame you're ready to get back into the playoff chase.

bleedprple&gold
07-18-2019, 04:32 AM
Why doesn't Paul just demand a trade if he doesn't want to stay in OKC? George demanded a trade and was sent packing before he left Presti's office, so why can't Paul do the same?

Dré
07-18-2019, 11:58 AM
It's funny how you overrate guys who aren't in the regular rotation. Anyway, Wiggins makes a fine tank commander. The point is you DON'T want to win if you're the Thunder. So why exactly is Paul better than Wiggins when that's the end goal? Plus if you get lucky he balls out in his contract year and gives a nice return just around the time frame you're ready to get back into the playoff chase.

I'm not overrating anyone. Chances are, Muscala will start alongside Adams and Gallinari. I expect Gallo to play some at PF (just based on history). There's a reason he only plays about 40% of his mins at PF vs 60% of his mins at SF. He's better suited playing the 3 (it's not really debatable). If they go out and get themselves another cheap PF that can rebound and space the floor (a la Christian Wood); between those two and Gallo, you should have a VERY competent group capable of manning the wing and the interior (alongside Adams and Noel).

And I don't agree. Tanking is not the answer, especially when you have a boatload of draft picks between now and 2030 (some of which could wind up being lottery picks). You only have a 14% chance of winning the top pick being one of the three worst teams anyways (LA was a 37-win team and still made it in the top 4 lol). Most GOOD GMs want to gain young developing cheap assets, draft picks, AND remain competitive (see San Antonio). No good GM wants his team to be EXTREMELY bad AND on top of that be cap-strapped to a bad contract (e.g., Wiggins').

There's also myriad talent right outside the lottery or well beyond it (e.g., Butler, Brogdon, Kawhi, Giannis, Gobert, Jokic, et al). And that's just really good to great (star/super star) level talent. There are myriad really great role players one can get with later picks. Blowing it up completely is stupid, because if you can be really good (even a borderline playoff team---winning like 45-wins) but just missing out on the playoffs, now you have a lottery pick AND you're only a piece or two away from contending (do your homework well, and that piece/those pieces may be had through the draft, even w/ a lower lottery pick and/or picks outside the lottery).

You should always look to compete WHILST getting better through the draft. Not tank for years in the HOPES of getting better (draft is a crap shoot and should be looked at, as an alternative means of improvement).

Saddletramp
07-18-2019, 03:30 PM
Why doesn't Paul just demand a trade if he doesn't want to stay in OKC? George demanded a trade and was sent packing before he left Presti's office, so why can't Paul do the same?

Because at his age/production/contract Paul George is valuable. Kawhi basically demanded George in order to sign with Clippers and George wanted to go. What’s Presti going to do? Say no? I’m sure if the price is right (it was for George) then CP3 will get dealt but there’s no hurry on Presti’s end.

Regardless from whatever this out-of-nowhere Dre guy says, OKC has started the rebuild. Everyone is available for the right price but the timing needs to be right for Presti to maximize their value. He knows it’s going to take time and if OKC has to wait it out until a team like the Heat get desperate, then he’ll just simply wait. Who knows, a few injuries to any of the top 8 teams and OKC could into the playoffs.

beasted86
07-18-2019, 04:09 PM
I'm not overrating anyone. Chances are, Muscala will start alongside Adams and Gallinari. I expect Gallo to play some at PF (just based on history). There's a reason he only plays about 40% of his mins at PF vs 60% of his mins at SF. He's better suited playing the 3 (it's not really debatable). If they go out and get themselves another cheap PF that can rebound and space the floor (a la Christian Wood); between those two and Gallo, you should have a VERY competent group capable of manning the wing and the interior (alongside Adams and Noel).

And I don't agree. Tanking is not the answer, especially when you have a boatload of draft picks between now and 2030 (some of which could wind up being lottery picks). You only have a 14% chance of winning the top pick being one of the three worst teams anyways (LA was a 37-win team and still made it in the top 4 lol). Most GOOD GMs want to gain young developing cheap assets, draft picks, AND remain competitive (see San Antonio). No good GM wants his team to be EXTREMELY bad AND on top of that be cap-strapped to a bad contract (e.g., Wiggins').

There's also myriad talent right outside the lottery or well beyond it (e.g., Butler, Brogdon, Kawhi, Giannis, Gobert, Jokic, et al). And that's just really good to great (star/super star) level talent. There are myriad really great role players one can get with later picks. Blowing it up completely is stupid, because if you can be really good (even a borderline playoff team---winning like 45-wins) but just missing out on the playoffs, now you have a lottery pick AND you're only a piece or two away from contending (do your homework well, and that piece/those pieces may be had through the draft, even w/ a lower lottery pick and/or picks outside the lottery).

You should always look to compete WHILST getting better through the draft. Not tank for years in the HOPES of getting better (draft is a crap shoot and should be looked at, as an alternative means of improvement).

You're failing to understand OKC is not a free agent destination. Also the fact that non-lottery picks don't move up, which LAC and Houston are guaranteed to make for at minimum the next 3 years.

OKC needs to tank. They need cheap talented players to build upon and avoid the tax, and have controllable assets that can't just leave in free agency after having a great year. If Woods or whoever else has a great year, OKC has no way to keep them from leaving.

bleedprple&gold
07-19-2019, 01:32 AM
Because at his age/production/contract Paul George is valuable. Kawhi basically demanded George in order to sign with Clippers and George wanted to go. What’s Presti going to do? Say no? I’m sure if the price is right (it was for George) then CP3 will get dealt but there’s no hurry on Presti’s end.

Regardless from whatever this out-of-nowhere Dre guy says, OKC has started the rebuild. Everyone is available for the right price but the timing needs to be right for Presti to maximize their value. He knows it’s going to take time and if OKC has to wait it out until a team like the Heat get desperate, then he’ll just simply wait. Who knows, a few injuries to any of the top 8 teams and OKC could into the playoffs.

Yes, he could have said no. George is under contract for 3 more years, so he could've said tough ****, you signed a contract, you're playing for us. That fact that he folded so quickly to George's demands shows he is a weak-minded GM. I know he got a lot for him, but the reports that he was legit depressed after the trade showed that he really didn't want to trade him, no matter what he could get back. So why was he forced to trade him? He didn't want a disgruntled player going into the season? Okay, so if Paul is disgruntled too, why is Presti willing to keep him but he wasn't willing to keep George?

Saddletramp
07-19-2019, 03:34 AM
Yes, he could have said no. George is under contract for 3 more years, so he could've said tough ****, you signed a contract, you're playing for us. That fact that he folded so quickly to George's demands shows he is a weak-minded GM. I know he got a lot for him, but the reports that he was legit depressed after the trade showed that he really didn't want to trade him, no matter what he could get back. So why was he forced to trade him? He didn't want a disgruntled player going into the season? Okay, so if Paul is disgruntled too, why is Presti willing to keep him but he wasn't willing to keep George?


And if he said “**** off, you’re here, get used to it“ then no free agent ever signs there again and/or he’d be fired as soon as word got out. These GMs try to do right when they can and trading George and Westbrook just sped up the rebuilding process. Presti’s no fool; he knew they had hit their ceiling and it wasn’t enough.

Time to move on.

Dré
07-19-2019, 09:22 AM
You're failing to understand OKC is not a free agent destination. Also the fact that non-lottery picks don't move up, which LAC and Houston are guaranteed to make for at minimum the next 3 years.

OKC needs to tank. They need cheap talented players to build upon and avoid the tax, and have controllable assets that can't just leave in free agency after having a great year. If Woods or whoever else has a great year, OKC has no way to keep them from leaving.

First of all, they say that about every small market team (that they're not a "free agent destination"). Yet, George a few years ago, potentially confirmed that he would have opted-in for the final year of his deal, had Bron guaranteed him that he would have been willing to commit to the Cavs beyond 17-18 (how accurate any of that is, is anyone's guess---the allegation came from the Cavs' FO---though bear in mind, neither George nor his camp denied the allegation). Kevin Love (who negotiated a no-trade clause in his old Minny deal) agreed to be dealt to the Cavs. Other stars would have been willing to come play with him in Cleveland as well, and I won't even get into productive rotation pieces (i.e., complimentary role players). The biggest thing that draws free agents in, is other stars (especially, other stars they already have a good relationship with), a great front office capable of consistently fielding a winning culture (with a vested commitment to excellence), how these free agent stars are going to be utilized in the offense by the coaching staff, how their minutes are going to be managed, etc.

Outside of Boston, Houston, LA, Philly, and San Fran-Oakland (the bay), who's going to go play in Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, DC, New York, Phoenix, or Minneapolis? All of those being top-15 markets. How many people wanted to play in Philly and the bay when they were really bad? Heck, how many people wanted to play in the bay when they were an up and coming team that was good, but wasn't a juggernaut??? Toronto has the fourth largest media market in all of north America (including Mexico), yet Kawhi left lol. Lakers were only a draw because of Bron (who has aspirations beyond basketball---Hollywood being one of them); no one was really clamoring to go there before he committed to them.

Tanking is the worst. And there's no evidence it works. Knicks have been mostly tanking since the early 2000s essentially (with a short blip in the trend where they fielded a contender back in 2012-13). Where are they now? Still tanking in the HOPES of getting better. I told you, tanking is never the answer (Buford era Spurs are a testament to that). There's a reason the Clips were downright PUTRID for years. They were ALWAYS rebuilding. Yet, this time around, after finally transforming into a competent team for the first time in their history (after the arrivals of Griffin, Jordan, and Paul), instead of tanking when their run had come to an end, they chose to re-tool.

-----

Wood was picked up by DET yesterday btw (likely as a buffer for Griffin coming out, or missing games). Good move by them.

Dré
07-19-2019, 09:29 AM
Because at his age/production/contract Paul George is valuable. Kawhi basically demanded George in order to sign with Clippers and George wanted to go. What’s Presti going to do? Say no? I’m sure if the price is right (it was for George) then CP3 will get dealt but there’s no hurry on Presti’s end.

Regardless from whatever this out-of-nowhere Dre guy says, OKC has started the rebuild. Everyone is available for the right price but the timing needs to be right for Presti to maximize their value. He knows it’s going to take time and if OKC has to wait it out until a team like the Heat get desperate, then he’ll just simply wait. Who knows, a few injuries to any of the top 8 teams and OKC could into the playoffs.

I've been on this forum longer than you. I just don't spend my life on here lol.

Lastly, there's nothing wrong with re-tooling and tweaking and going in a somewhat new direction (with younger/cheaper talent). But outright tanking is unnecessary to accomplish that. You don't need to tank in order to stay competitive for the long haul and even re-emerge as a contender.

mightybosstone
07-19-2019, 10:41 AM
I actually like OKC's decision to keep Paul for the foreseeable future. I honestly don't see how it could backfire for them, because it's going to play out one of two ways:

1. Paul is healthy and a core team with some legitimate talent like Gallo, Schroder, SGA, Roberson and Adams will certainly be competitive and have a chance at a low playoff seed. Paul plays well enough to prove he's still got something in the tank, improving his trade value so OKC doesn't have to give up as much to move his contract mid-season or next summer.

2. Paul is banged up and the team struggles. OKC ends up with a better draft pick at the end of the year, and if nothing else, one less year of Paul's deal makes that contract more easy to trade.

I hate how this hole thing played out for CP3, and I don't want to see the last few decent years of his career get wasted, but OKC has to make a decision in the best interest of the franchise and I get that. Paul is old, but he's not completely done. And I think he'll still have a chance to contribute to a contender after his stint in OKC is up.

OR, just throwing this out there, but would it totally surprise anybody if this OKC team overachieved and Presti ended up making a deal to compete at the trade deadline, doubling down on Paul? It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest given Paul's drive and Presti's abilities as a GM. I think that scenario is less likely, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Dré
07-19-2019, 12:20 PM
I actually like OKC's decision to keep Paul for the foreseeable future. I honestly don't see how it could backfire for them, because it's going to play out one of two ways:

1. Paul is healthy and a core team with some legitimate talent like Gallo, Schroder, SGA, Roberson and Adams will certainly be competitive and have a chance at a low playoff seed. Paul plays well enough to prove he's still got something in the tank, improving his trade value so OKC doesn't have to give up as much to move his contract mid-season or next summer.

2. Paul is banged up and the team struggles. OKC ends up with a better draft pick at the end of the year, and if nothing else, one less year of Paul's deal makes that contract more easy to trade.

I hate how this hole thing played out for CP3, and I don't want to see the last few decent years of his career get wasted, but OKC has to make a decision in the best interest of the franchise and I get that. Paul is old, but he's not completely done. And I think he'll still have a chance to contribute to a contender after his stint in OKC is up.

OR, just throwing this out there, but would it totally surprise anybody if this OKC team overachieved and Presti ended up making a deal to compete at the trade deadline, doubling down on Paul? It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest given Paul's drive and Presti's abilities as a GM. I think that scenario is less likely, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

I agree w/ you to a large extent. That said, I REALLY believe Schroeder should be moved. He's a bad player, and is frankly redundant at this point. You already have two good to great PGs in Paul and Gilgeous-Alexander (both of whom are better decision makers).

Imo, Presti should flip the trio of Ferg-Patterson-Schroeder for Batum (Batum has 1-yr left and an option)---he can also be used as an optional PG (to relieve guys like Paul and Gilgeous-Alexander of constantly having to handle the ball). And they can also go out and sign Thabo Sefolosha who is still a great 3-pt shooter, good rebounder for his position, and great at being active defensively out on the wing (forcing deflections/forcing turnovers). I would have liked Christian Wood for them as another floor stretching/good rebounding/shot blocking PF (to go along w/ Muscala), but he was picked up off waivers by the Pistons. So (if the Schroeder move is made) you would have a (potential) line up of:

Starting (unit)

1-Paul/Gilgeous-Alexander
2-Paul/Gilgeous-Alexander/Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha
3-Danilo Gallinari/Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha
4-Muscala/Gallinari
5-Steven Adams

Bench (unit)

1-Gilgeous-Alexander/Batum (I don't see CP3 coming off the bench---nor should he, too good)
2-Gilgeous-Alexander/Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha/Burton
3-Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha/Nader
4-Muscala/Bazley(???)
5-Nerlens Noel

To break it down (if they added Batum): Paul, Batum, Sef, Gallinari, and Muscala are all really good outside shooters (their overall shot efficiency is well above league average too). Roberson's a great wing defender and good finisher around the rim (at least historically). Promising young guys like Gilgeous-Alexander and Diallo had solid rookie campaigns, and could feasibly see BIG jumps from year 1 to year 2 (we saw it with Domantas Sabonis in Indy)---both may also wind up adding a reliable outside jumper in the off season. Steven Adams is an underrated big who is actually a great center (something also tells me his defensive rebound numbers will increase some, and I expect him to be a more integral part of the offense). Nerlens is a great back up big who will do a great job manning the interior for Adams when he's off the floor. And Bazley's a rookie (so it could go either one of three ways---either he can be really bad, be really good, or somewhere in between). I'd expect guys like Burton and Nader to improve marginally or stay about the same.

You'd have good established veteran shooters. Young players that may wind up improving as shooters. Great close out wings. And two good athletic bigs capable of also closing out on wing shooters. Keep opposing teams off the glass, keep opposing teams off the line, and limit turnovers, and overall that would be a playoff team (if health of players is managed well). Even in the loaded west.

bleedprple&gold
07-19-2019, 12:34 PM
And if he said “**** off, you’re here, get used to it“ then no free agent ever signs there again and/or he’d be fired as soon as word got out. These GMs try to do right when they can and trading George and Westbrook just sped up the rebuilding process. Presti’s no fool; he knew they had hit their ceiling and it wasn’t enough.

Time to move on.

OK with that logic, Chris Paul wants a trade, Presti won't trade him, so I guess no free agent is ever going to sign there again, right?

mightybosstone
07-19-2019, 12:40 PM
I agree w/ you to a large extent. That said, I REALLY believe Schroeder should be moved. He's a bad player, and is frankly redundant at this point. You already have two good to great PGs in Paul and Gilgeous-Alexander (both of whom are better decision makers).

Imo, Presti should flip the trio of Ferg-Patterson-Schroeder for Batum (Batum has 1-yr left and an option)---he can also be used as an optional PG (to relieve guys like Paul and Gilgeous-Alexander of constantly having to handle the ball). And they can also go out and sign Thabo Sefolosha who is still a great 3-pt shooter, good rebounder for his position, and great at being active defensively out on the wing (forcing deflections/forcing turnovers). I would have liked Christian Wood for them as another floor stretching/good rebounding/shot blocking PF (to go along w/ Muscala), but he was picked up off waivers by the Pistons. So (if the Schroeder move is made) you would have a (potential) line up of:

Starting (unit)

1-Paul/Gilgeous-Alexander
2-Paul/Gilgeous-Alexander/Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha
3-Danilo Gallinari/Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha
4-Muscala/Gallinari
5-Steven Adams

Bench (unit)

1-Gilgeous-Alexander/Batum (I don't see CP3 coming off the bench---nor should he, too good)
2-Gilgeous-Alexander/Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha/Burton
3-Batum/Roberson/Diallo/Sefolosha/Nader
4-Muscala/Bazley(???)
5-Nerlens Noel

To break it down (if they added Batum): Paul, Batum, Sef, Gallinari, and Muscala are all really good outside shooters (their overall shot efficiency is well above league average too). Roberson's a great wing defender and good finisher around the rim (at least historically). Promising young guys like Gilgeous-Alexander and Diallo had solid rookie campaigns, and could feasibly see BIG jumps from year 1 to year 2 (we saw it with Domantas Sabonis in Indy)---both may also wind up adding a reliable outside jumper in the off season. Steven Adams is an underrated big who is actually a great center (something also tells me his defensive rebound numbers will increase some, and I expect him to be a more integral part of the offense). Nerlens is a great back up big who will do a great job manning the interior for Adams when he's off the floor. And Bazley's a rookie (so it could go either one of three ways---either he can be really bad, be really good, or somewhere in between). I'd expect guys like Burton and Nader to improve marginally or stay about the same.

You'd have good established veteran shooters. Young players that may wind up improving as shooters. Great close out wings. And two good athletic bigs capable of also closing out on wing shooters. Keep opposing teams off the glass, keep opposing teams off the line, and limit turnovers, and overall that would be a playoff team (if health of players is managed well). Even in the loaded west.

I mean, sure, there's a lot of trades out there OKC could make. But right now I don't think Presti or the front office is necessarily thinking "Let's make moves right now that help us contend next season." I think they're in the mindset of "Let's make deals that are in the best long-term interest of the franchise, and if we see a move that could help us be competitive in the playoffs without compromising that, we'll do it."

Batum might make them better on paper, but I don't see Presti being super anxious to pay Batum $52 million over the next two seasons on top of what he's already paying Paul and Adams. I agree that Schroder is a bit redundant, and I never really understood that addition in the first place. He was always a worse version of Westbrook to me. But I think they'd be way more likely to unload his $31 million over the next two seasons to take on less money or an expiring deal rather than take on a larger contract like Batum's.

IKnowHoops
07-19-2019, 01:01 PM
The best way for CP3 to get traded is to ball out. He needs to average 22/13 on high efficiency and then they can trade him. He played next to the highest usage in nba history. He needs to come in and run the offense and make the team better. If OKC wins more than they want through 35 games...oh well... they will be able to trade him and then they can pack it in.

mightybosstone
07-19-2019, 01:39 PM
The best way for CP3 to get traded is to ball out. He needs to average 22/13 on high efficiency and then they can trade him. He played next to the highest usage in nba history. He needs to come in and run the offense and make the team better. If OKC wins more than they want through 35 games...oh well... they will be able to trade him and then they can pack it in.

Yeah, that sounds awesome, but he's literally never done that. In fact, in the history of the NBA, nobody has ever done that. Trying not to nitpick, but that's not realistic for anybody, much less a 34-year-old injury-plagued PG. To me, all Paul has to do to improve his value is going back to being that hyper-efficient 18/9 guy he was in LA and not miss massive chunks of the season.

Dré
07-19-2019, 01:47 PM
I mean, sure, there's a lot of trades out there OKC could make. But right now I don't think Presti or the front office is necessarily thinking "Let's make moves right now that help us contend next season." I think they're in the mindset of "Let's make deals that are in the best long-term interest of the franchise, and if we see a move that could help us be competitive in the playoffs without compromising that, we'll do it."

Batum might make them better on paper, but I don't see Presti being super anxious to pay Batum $52 million over the next two seasons on top of what he's already paying Paul and Adams. I agree that Schroder is a bit redundant, and I never really understood that addition in the first place. He was always a worse version of Westbrook to me. But I think they'd be way more likely to unload his $31 million over the next two seasons to take on less money or an expiring deal rather than take on a larger contract like Batum's.

Yeh, that's why I wasn't looking for Presti to simply unload Schroeder. I was looking for him to unload Ferg, Patterson, and Schroeder, who are all owed (this season) about the same collectively that Batum would be. I forgot to mention that this deal should be contingent on a future draft pick or two being acquired. Given Charlotte's ineptitude as a franchise, that could wind up being very valuable down the line.

The reason why I think it wouldn't be completely unreasonable for OKC, is: Yes, Batum is owed roughly ~50 mil over 2-yrs, BUT he has an option. Assuming the worst, and OKC suffers myriad injuries, regression from their vets, decline from their aging star, no improvement from the young players, etc, they won't be very good. Batum COULD feasibly look to explore the market next season (especially if he's drawing interest from some ball clubs). Given the nature of the market, it's not unreasonable that Batum could opt for both an opportunity to contend and longer term security with another team, over the 25-mil he'd be guaranteed on a rebuild (something he's essentially been a part of his whole career). It would also still be a relatively movable contract at the deadline for any team that is in contention, and that thinks he could help them; where you could swap him out for an expiring.

It wouldn't be completely unreasonable for Charlotte because: Patterson is an expiring, they need PG depth (and Schroeder's on a manageable 2-yr deal), Ferg is young/developing/affordable/and mostly under team control.

That said, there may be better deals out there. So I agree with you that Presti shouldn't also be quick to pull the trigger on moves before really evaluating the best situation he can put OKC in to both compete and gain valuable assets for the future (in the form of PRODUCTIVE expiring vets, young promising players, and draft picks). Tanking is completely unnecessary though.


Yeah, that sounds awesome, but he's literally never done that. In fact, in the history of the NBA, nobody has ever done that. Trying not to nitpick, but that's not realistic for anybody, much less a 34-year-old injury-plagued PG. To me, all Paul has to do to improve his value is going back to being that hyper-efficient 18/9 guy he was in LA and not miss massive chunks of the season.

He was basically 19 on 59% true shooting and 10 assists (on very low turns). Dude also averaged between 4 and 5 rebounds per game. If he does that, the market will def open up for him, and on a bad team, Presti will def look to take advantage of that. Masai's no dummy, so I wouldn't look to ever fleece him. But an even swap of Paul and Gallo to Toronto, for Ibaka's and Lowry's expirings might work (at this stage you're looking to get as much off your books for summer 2020).

Saddletramp
07-19-2019, 03:12 PM
OK with that logic, Chris Paul wants a trade, Presti won't trade him, so I guess no free agent is ever going to sign there again, right?

If you can’t get a deal, you can’t get a deal. Trading George was easy and he got a lot of assets. No one is going to get mad at Presti for not moving Paul when everyone knows about that contract/age/production drop.

Tg11
07-19-2019, 03:52 PM
I would trade Chris Paul to the East and the only teams in the East I can see him on are: Miami Heat, New York Knicks, Milwaukee Bucks or Orlando Magic

If he stays in the West...then the only teams I can see him on are Minnesota Timberwolves and or the San Antonio Spurs

Other than that CP3 more or less stays where he is in OKC

IKnowHoops
07-20-2019, 05:57 PM
Yeah, that sounds awesome, but he's literally never done that. In fact, in the history of the NBA, nobody has ever done that. Trying not to nitpick, but that's not realistic for anybody, much less a 34-year-old injury-plagued PG. To me, all Paul has to do to improve his value is going back to being that hyper-efficient 18/9 guy he was in LA and not miss massive chunks of the season.

Yeah I pretty much just through out some junk, but if he could do 18/9 on very good efficiency he’s a top 5 pg again or close to it and then there is some value there

beasted86
07-20-2019, 06:32 PM
Some of you are delusional...

As if GMs in the NBA can't see right through empty stats. If he's not contributing to wins it doesn't matter. If reports are coming out from the sideline reporters of him barking at teammates in the huddle or practices, again it doesn't matter what his stats are.

No matter what Chris Paul does, it's basically impossible to redeem his value to where he's worth $120M+ for the next 3 years.

He would have to completely reinvent his personality/temperament, and come in in the best shape possible and play a full 82 games.

Even if he did all that, father time is undefeated, and it will scare just enough GMs away that the offers will still be garbage.

Presti made his bed because it's guaranteed Thunder won't make the playoffs for the next 3 years. He had nothing to lose. He tries, to trade him still of course.... but if a deal can't get done, they can play hardball and get him to decline his option and agree to a buyout.

Dré
07-20-2019, 09:33 PM
Some of you are delusional...

As if GMs in the NBA can't see right through empty stats. If he's not contributing to wins it doesn't matter. If reports are coming out from the sideline reporters of him barking at teammates in the huddle or practices, again it doesn't matter what his stats are.

Even on losing teams, players that are just fringe talents, contribute to wins (you have to be Bargnani bad to be a net positive for the OPPOSING team), let alone when a team has star/superstar caliber talent. So this is possibly the weirdest take I've seen in a while. There are plenty of really good to great players that were on losing teams, and still contributed to wins (mainly, because they were one of the only good pieces on that team---and most everyone else was below-average to Bargnani-esque). So yes, putting up great all-around numbers definitely matters, because they invariably contribute to wins. Additionally, this team is legit like two solid moves away from being a SHOE-IN for the playoffs (assuming all the really important players would remain relatively healthy).


No matter what Chris Paul does, it's basically impossible to redeem his value to where he's worth $120M+ for the next 3 years.

He would have to completely reinvent his personality/temperament, and come in in the best shape possible

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WL2ZFvvxEL0/hqdefault.jpg

^I feel like people often overexaggerate how out-of-shape Paul is. He definitely works on his body more than say: Cousins has (historically).

Paul's not getting hurt because he doesn't put time in the gym. He gets hurt coz his body isn't built to handle the grind of a grueling NBA season like Westbrook's is. Same reason guys like Griffin and Kawhi can't stay healthy to save their lives, but similar to LeBron, are built like tanks (I'm exaggerating, but you get what I mean---they're not out of shape).


...and play a full 82 games.

Did Kawhi have to play all 82-games to be worth max money (and that was DESPITE coming off a season that saw him play ONLY 9 games)??? He would have been worth that much even had TO wound up losing to the Sixers (in an OT that never happened).

Frankly, all Paul needs to do is ball out while he's on the floor, and work w/ the OKC coaching staff in keeping his minutes at a reasonable ~30 to ~32 mins a game. He also needs to work w/ the coaching staff in effectively managing back-to-back situations (and situations that see the team play a grueling slate of 4-games in 5-nights).

If he does that, he'll definitely garner some interest from around the league.


Even if he did all that, father time is undefeated, and it will scare just enough GMs away that the offers will still be garbage.

Well yeh... There will always be teams scared to pull the trigger on any aging+injury-prone player. LeBron's not injury prone, but even he's a depreciating asset relative the younger superstar players (Giannis, Jokic, etc). There are def teams that would stay away from paying a king's ransom to acquire him. We're talking about teams that could view Paul favorably enough to present Presti w/ a reasonable trade package. The stuff you were talking about was the complete opposite of reasonable, and no sane GM would pull the trigger on that (they'd rather get fired).


Presti made his bed because it's guaranteed Thunder won't make the playoffs for the next 3 years. He had nothing to lose. He tries, to trade him still of course.... but if a deal can't get done, they can play hardball and get him to decline his option and agree to a buyout.

Like I said, they're a couple tweaks away from being a shoe-in. As for hard-balling him? Even if he agrees to decline his 4th-yr option. That's still a 3-yr ~124 million dollar contract (the full contract is 4-yrs, nearly ~160 mil). You know how much money both sides would have to concede in order to agree to a buyout? This would be right up there w/ the Miami HEAT and Chris Bosh (who the HEAT renounced and waived---coz he was DONE as a player and they knew he would NEVER play again). You see OKC buying Chris out for upwards of 80+ mil to let him go and help either the Lakers or Clippers win a chip? You see Chris giving up that kinda dough? :laugh:

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-21-2019, 12:59 PM
I would trade Chris Paul to the East and the only teams in the East I can see him on are: Miami Heat, New York Knicks, Milwaukee Bucks or Orlando Magic

If he stays in the West...then the only teams I can see him on are Minnesota Timberwolves and or the San Antonio Spurs

Other than that CP3 more or less stays where he is in OKC

Why would the Bucks want CP3? Bucks just extended Bledsoe. Maybe how long ago maybe when we had dead weight deals in Delly,Henson,Teletovic,Plumlee,Snell. The one gullible team I would of suggested would of been Hornets but MJ got Rozier. Maybe the Knicks? They the other only gullible team.

Pistons could get desperate and want to pair CP3 back with Blake? But matching the money is a bit difficult. Thunder would have a easier time unloading Dennis Schröder then anyone. But even if CP3 can be dealt. Most teams have a ton of fresh contracts that cant be dealt till December 15 anyway. If the Magic didn't stretch Mozgov they might of been a player as well that's if Fultz is done for.

But anyway. If CP3 is dealt it's for more dead weight contracts. Another team comes to mind is Wolves. They could eat CP3 and deal any of Dieng,Teague,Wiggins and get CP3 and get something from a third team. Or just a straight two team deal. Wizards if they wanna win with Beal and Wall is injured. I suggested that deal a while ago. Wall for CP3 be a easy swap.

But any way T,L,D,R.

I'd suggest Hornets,Wizards,Wolves for teams with old dead weight contracts to work right now. Fresh contracts would have to be Knicks,Magic,Pistons for December 15. A odd ball dark horse could be Cuban. He always goes after over priced near washed up vets to say he had them. Not sure what the Mavs would cough up though. Could get close with Lee,Powell,Wright and whatever else as a filler. Even easier with less players if they part with THJR.

Chronz
07-21-2019, 03:43 PM
Some of you are delusional...

As if GMs in the NBA can't see right through empty stats. If he's not contributing to wins it doesn't matter. If reports are coming out from the sideline reporters of him barking at teammates in the huddle or practices, again it doesn't matter what his stats are.

No matter what Chris Paul does, it's basically impossible to redeem his value to where he's worth $120M+ for the next 3 years.

He would have to completely reinvent his personality/temperament, and come in in the best shape possible and play a full 82 games.

Even if he did all that, father time is undefeated, and it will scare just enough GMs away that the offers will still be garbage.

Presti made his bed because it's guaranteed Thunder won't make the playoffs for the next 3 years. He had nothing to lose. He tries, to trade him still of course.... but if a deal can't get done, they can play hardball and get him to decline his option and agree to a buyout.

If OKC overachieves, then what? I think some teams need to see him prove he can still produce at a high level, maybe we undersell how much Harden has detracted from him compared to their first season. its prolly just a natural decline.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-24-2019, 01:18 PM
1176181575081451520

SteBO
09-24-2019, 01:42 PM
No thanks, I'll ride it out with Goran; younger, cheaper, and will expire after this year. Stay away Riley, and definitely don't give up high draft picks for him. That's next level stupidity......

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-24-2019, 01:52 PM
No thanks, I'll ride it out with Goran; younger, cheaper, and will expire after this year. Stay away Riley, and definitely don't give up high draft picks for him. That's next level stupidity......

Well sounds like Heat wants some pick/'s with CP3. Not so sure Thunder wanna give up any picks or not. But to unload CP3 contract and injury history. It might be in their best interests to go for it while Pat seems desperate. Will CP3 and Butler get along? What are Heat offering in return? Pat may strongly hold high value yet for Dragic since they paid like 2 or so first round picks to get him. Johnson and something??

SteBO
09-24-2019, 02:04 PM
In that event, I'd be a bit more tolerant but CP3s got 3 years including this one left on his deal I think, and I'd rather not extend the wait to get out of these big contracts. Will have to look up how much longer the Olynyk, Johnson, Waiters deals run.

OKC will definitely want Dragic though. I don't see how they don't insist on that one.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-24-2019, 02:06 PM
1176184718766817280

Not so sure CP3 would opt out of final year.

Chronz
09-24-2019, 02:24 PM
he's an oklahoman for life

ewing
09-24-2019, 02:27 PM
Big3

Dade County
09-24-2019, 11:39 PM
I would trade Chris Paul to the East and the only teams in the East I can see him on are: Miami Heat, New York Knicks, Milwaukee Bucks or Orlando Magic

If he stays in the West...then the only teams I can see him on are Minnesota Timberwolves and or the San Antonio Spurs

Other than that CP3 more or less stays where he is in OKC

Just always remember, very rarely in an entertainment base business; that events are not scripted out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_NZ_dACxU

I can see him playing for the Bucks to.

Dade County
09-25-2019, 12:03 AM
No thanks, I'll ride it out with Goran; younger, cheaper, and will expire after this year. Stay away Riley, and definitely don't give up high draft picks for him. That's next level stupidity......

They would have to give Miami one or both of our picks back (& Cp3 would have to opt out of his Final year), this is how you know this deal, will not happen. This has to be fake news.

TrueFan420
09-25-2019, 12:06 AM
Just always remember, very rarely in an entertainment base business; that events are not scripted out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_NZ_dACxU

I can see him playing for the Bucks to.

Hahaha that would be epic. I don’t see why/what they’d want to give up to make it happen tho.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-25-2019, 10:09 AM
Just always remember, very rarely in an entertainment base business; that events are not scripted out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_NZ_dACxU

I can see him playing for the Bucks to.

Nah. Bucks need that flexibility next summer for super max to Giannis. Bucks already got fined $50K for comments on ready to pay him his $250M next summer. CP3 is old and injuryprone and doesn't fit our timeline any more. Also isn't worth the $38M this season. Besides only contract that became eligible to trade is Bledsoe at $15.6M. Only other contract that can be traded is Ersan at $7M. To land CP3 it would have to be trade deadline. Even tossing in Rolo at $4.7M doesn't help. We'd have to trade most our bench for a old washed up CP3. Nah.. Doubt CP3 wants to wait that long. My guess Thunder caves and offers up some picks to dump CP3 to Heat for like Dragic and Johnson. Thunder have a ton of picks between all the trades they did lately.


Pick Swaps

2020 — Owed first-rounder (top-10 protected through 2022, otherwise converts to 2023 and 2024 second-rounders) from the Denver Nuggets (Jerami Grant).
2020 — Owed second-rounder from the Chicago Bulls (Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot).
2020 — Owe first-rounder (top-20 protected, otherwise converts to 2022 and 2023 second-rounders) to the Philadelphia 76ers (Jerami Grant, Anzejs Pasecniks, Markelle Fultz).
2021 — Owed a first-rounder from the Miami HEAT (Goran Dragic, Mikal Bridges, Tobias Harris, Paul George).
2021 — Can swap first-rounders (lowest of the Thunder or Miami HEAT) with the Houston Rockets (top-4 protected, Russell Westbrook).
2022 — Owed a first-rounder from the Los Angeles Clippers (Paul George).
2022 — Owe first-rounder (lottery protected otherwise converts to 2024 and 2025 second-rounders) to the Atlanta Hawks (Carmelo Anthony).
2023 — Owed first-rounder (lottery protected through 2025, unprotected in 2026) from the Miami HEAT (Jimmy Butler, Paul George).
2023 — Can swap first-rounders with the Los Angeles Clippers (Paul George).
2024 — Owed a first-rounder (top-four protected, otherwise converts to 2024 and 2025 second-rounders) from the Houston Rockets (Russell Westbrook).
2024 — Owed a first-rounder from the Los Angeles Clippers (Paul George)
2024 — Owed a second-rounder from the Memphis Grizzlies (Brandon Clarke).
2025 — Can swap first-rounders with the Los Angeles Clippers (Paul George).
2025 — Can swap first-rounders (top-10 protected) with the Houston Rockets (Russell Westbrook).
2026 — Owed a first-rounder from the Los Angeles Clippers (Paul George).
2026 — Owed a first-rounder (top-four protected, otherwise converts to a 2026 second-rounder and $1 million) from the Houston Rockets (Russell Westbrook).


http://www.basketballinsiders.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-team-salary/

VCaintdead17
09-25-2019, 02:44 PM
If OKC overachieves, then what? I think some teams need to see him prove he can still produce at a high level, maybe we undersell how much Harden has detracted from him compared to their first season. its prolly just a natural decline.

His decline is totally overstated. His numbers still hold up under scrutiny, on both ends. The biggest concern with him at this point should be health. But as long as he's healthy, he's still a top 5ish point guard with an all star level impact.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-26-2019, 01:17 PM
1177244910325514240




The Heat aren’t expected to complete a trade for Chris Paul anytime soon because of the different ways they and the Thunder view a potential deal, tweets Barry Jackson of The Miami Herald.

Oklahoma City officials believe they’re giving up a valuable asset in the nine-time All-Star, while Miami sees the trade as a favor to the Thunder and thinks it should be compensated for taking on Paul’s hefty contract. The 34-year-old will make $38.5MM this season and $41.4MM next year, with a $44.2MM player option for 2021/22.

What Miami would like most is the return of its first-round picks for 2021 and 2023, which both belong to OKC. The Thunder have been reluctant to include them in prior trade talks.

Shams Charania of The Athletic reported Monday that the Heat still have some interest in acquiring Paul, who played the past two years in Houston. Charania added that Miami will wait to see how the early part of the season turns out before deciding whether to resume negotiations.

Although he remains a productive player, injuries and age have slowed Paul, who has been limited to 58 games in each of the past two years. He averaged 15.6 points, 4.6 rebounds and 8.2 assists last season, then posted a 17.0/6.4/5.5 line in the playoffs.


https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/09/chris-paul-trade-to-miami-remains-unlikely.html

zookman65
09-26-2019, 09:09 PM
His decline is totally overstated. His numbers still hold up under scrutiny, on both ends. The biggest concern with him at this point should be health. But as long as he's healthy, he's still a top 5ish point guard with an all star level impact.

No way. Maybe 4 years ago - except in playoffs.

VCaintdead17
09-26-2019, 11:27 PM
No way. Maybe 4 years ago - except in playoffs.

Yes way, definitely. Steph, Dame, Kyrie, Westbrook are above him. He still has as big of an impact as someone like Kemba, Lowry, Conley or Jrue.

smith&wesson
09-27-2019, 11:52 AM
Christ, aren't we past this already? Paul is not going anywhere. The Yahoo report was debunked by multiple legitimate sources, and even if they didn't get along, it doesn't matter. Paul is under contract, his contract is next to possible to deal, and he's going to play out at least 1-2 more years of that deal regardless of his relationship with Harden.

Plus, the notion that Harden and Paul "can't play together" is just truly ignorant. Have you not paid any attention to basketball the last two years? Did you miss the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league and came one hamstring injury away from dethroning a health Warriors dynasty like 14 months ago? Or the part where the Rockets had the best record in the league the second half of this season?

I get why people want to overreact. They underwhelmed this last season and that Warriors series didn't end well. They were sloppy, and feelings were clearly hurt the way all of that went down—which clearly got out into the media. But these guys are professionals, they've won a lot of basketball games together and there's no reason to think they won't continue to do so.

TL;DR: Paul isn't going anywhere. The Rockets are still a top 5 basketball team. This thread is garbage.

Good riddance, Paul is way over hyped and is regressing athletically.

WB for all his flaws is a superior athlete, is in his prime, an mvp, and has experience playing along side Harden plus thy are friends off the court.

I’m extremely happy about the move considering WB’s contract is slightly better while being younger too.

smith&wesson
09-27-2019, 12:09 PM
1177244910325514240



https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/09/chris-paul-trade-to-miami-remains-unlikely.html

It’s obvious the Heat want a sweet heart deal - I imagine the negotiations are pretty far apart.

I also think Justice Winslow could break out this year if they let him start at the pg.

mightybosstone
09-27-2019, 02:15 PM
Good riddance, Paul is way over hyped and is regressing athletically.

WB for all his flaws is a superior athlete, is in his prime, an mvp, and has experience playing along side Harden plus thy are friends off the court.

I’m extremely happy about the move considering WB’s contract is slightly better while being younger too.

Ouch. That post of mine definitely did not age well. In my defense, at least I called myself out in this thread as soon as the Paul/Westbrook trade was announced. So I at least deserve some credit for that, right?

Back to your point, I do feel good about Westbrook as of today. But he's yet to step on the court. Let's see how we feel in 2-3 months. Despite all the drama in the first month or two, I still feel like the Rockets have had a good offseason and have added some quality pieces to get better and deeper. But so much of their success will hang on Westbrook's integration into the team and how the new 1-2 punch performs on the court. I'm cautiously optimistic...

lakerfan85
09-27-2019, 11:50 PM
Westbrook is an overrated chucker.. It’s going to be fun watching him destroy the Rockets..

More-Than-Most
09-28-2019, 02:37 AM
but but but but the heat should get him for nothing. seems legit

THE MTL
09-28-2019, 02:19 PM
I think CP3 might have ruined his career with that contract.

ewing
09-28-2019, 07:07 PM
It’s obvious the Heat want a sweet heart deal - I imagine the negotiations are pretty far apart.

I also think Justice Winslow could break out this year if they let him start at the pg.

I’ve always been a big Winslow fan and idea him as a full time pg is so interesting to me


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Raps18-19 Champ
09-28-2019, 08:06 PM
He's going to LA for Green, KCP, Bradley and Javale.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-29-2019, 09:25 AM
He's going to LA for Green, KCP, Bradley and Javale.

Not enough salary.

CP3 $38.5

Green $14.6M
KCP $8M
Bradley $4.7M
McGee $4M

*****

Never mind.


Due to Oklahoma City being over the cap and having a post-trade Team Salary under the Tax Threshold and trading out more than $19.6M in salaries, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Oklahoma City could not receive more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here.

Due to the L.A. Lakers being over the cap and having a post-trade Team Salary under the Tax Threshold and trading out more than $19.6M in salaries, the 25% trade rule is invoked. the L.A. Lakers could not receive more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here.

This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-09-2019, 07:57 AM
Would the Pistons try and reunite Blake and CP3 together? It take something like Jackson,Galloway,Snell and pick and young player. Also trade cant be done yet since they just traded for Snell not to long ago. But not so sure Thunder would want Jackson back. So maybe need a third team.

Tg11
10-09-2019, 08:18 AM
CP3 to the Miami Heat just fits...he would be a good fit beside Butler and in return you can give up Dragic, Waiters, and like 2 draft picks to OKC...you get CP3 and you have your starting lineup of

PG- Chris Paul
SG- Tyler Herro
SF- Jimmy Butler
PF- Justise Winslow
C- Bam Adebayo

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-09-2019, 08:30 AM
CP3 to the Miami Heat just fits...he would be a good fit beside Butler and in return you can give up Dragic, Waiters, and like 2 draft picks to OKC...you get CP3 and you have your starting lineup of

PG- Chris Paul
SG- Tyler Herro
SF- Jimmy Butler
PF- Justise Winslow
C- Bam Adebayo

Heat actually want their own first rounder back they owe.

TylerSL
10-09-2019, 02:41 PM
Heat actually want their own first rounder back they owe.

We should get a first round pick back if we take that contract. Not that CP3 isn't good, but he'll be 35 by the end of this season and he's already declining and has 3 years $124 million left on his contract (no way he opts out of 3rd year).

Miami will be a playoff team with or without Chris Paul, the Thunder are not a playoff team either way, but OKC is actually above the luxury tax with CP3 on their roster. The Thunder are sitting on a stockpile of picks after trading PG/Russ and Miami has no picks. They HAVE to make it worth it for Miami to take him. OKC actually owns 2 of our picks, we should be asking for both. Settle for one, the 2021 pick, but ask for both.

Otherwise, keep the roster as is. Dragic is a good PG who is on the last year of his deal. Our bad contracts are coming off the books over the next 2 years which will give us the ability to bring in top talent, trading for a declining CP3 and his massive contract would stop that. So again, it's the Thunder who need the Heat in that trade, not the other way around.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-09-2019, 03:04 PM
We should get a first round pick back if we take that contract. Not that CP3 isn't good, but he'll be 35 by the end of this season and he's already declining and has 3 years $124 million left on his contract (no way he opts out of 3rd year).

Miami will be a playoff team with or without Chris Paul, the Thunder are not a playoff team either way, but OKC is actually above the luxury tax with CP3 on their roster. The Thunder are sitting on a stockpile of picks after trading PG/Russ and Miami has no picks. They HAVE to make it worth it for Miami to take him. OKC actually owns 2 of our picks, we should be asking for both. Settle for one, the 2021 pick, but ask for both.

Otherwise, keep the roster as is. Dragic is a good PG who is on the last year of his deal. Our bad contracts are coming off the books over the next 2 years which will give us the ability to bring in top talent, trading for a declining CP3 and his massive contract would stop that. So again, it's the Thunder who need the Heat in that trade, not the other way around.

If I was the Thunder i'd try taking injured Wall and a pick/s for healthy CP3.

Tg11
10-09-2019, 08:11 PM
Other teams CP3 could go to:

1- Charlotte Hornets
2- Minnesota Timberwolves
3- Orlando Magic
4- New York Knicks
5- Indiana Pacers
6- Los Angeles Lakers

These are the only other teams Chris Paul could go to realistically but if he goes to the Lakers, you would have to get rid of Rajon Rondo because Rondo and Paul on the same team is a recipe for disaster considering they hate each other and they wouldn't be able to co-exist. However, if CP3 ends up in LA, would LA even be willing to take on CP3's bad contract? If they do that, they wouldn't be able to go after any big name free agents come 2021 and beyond because money would be tied up because of Paul.

However, CP3 if he were to go to Orlando, it wouldn't be such a bad thing. CP3 would be on a young team but also you pair him up with another All Star in Vucevic, it works out.

Realistic fit, the most realistic is CP3 going to the New York Knicks though.

Dade County
10-09-2019, 08:49 PM
CP3 to the Miami Heat just fits...he would be a good fit beside Butler and in return you can give up Dragic, Waiters, and like 2 draft picks to OKC...you get CP3 and you have your starting lineup of

PG- Chris Paul
SG- Tyler Herro
SF- Jimmy Butler
PF- Justise Winslow
C- Bam Adebayo

If OKC gives Miami 1 or both of are 1st rd picks back (& Cp3 opts out of the final year of his contract), the deal can get done.

Miami wants to trade for Beal, so they are trying to package, 3 to 4 1st rd picks to Washington. So unless Pat can make this happen...

Cp3/ Nunn
Beal/ Herro
Butler
?
Bam

I can see Cp3 being traded to the bucks.



Buckley suggests a deal that would send Paul to the Bucks for Eric Bledsoe, Ersan Ilyasova, Robin Lopez, D.J. Wilson, and Donte DiVincenzo. Milwaukee would take a step closer to their Championship goals, and the Thunder get to rid themselves of CP3’s hyper-expensive contract.

Due to turn 35 next spring, Paul is on one of the NBA’s worst contracts. Ηe is set to make over $115 million over the next three years. This fact has turned off many teams to the idea of trading for him. But for Milwaukee, it could prove beneficial if he can help bring them a Championship. His shooting, play-making, and defensive abilities will be especially valuable alongside Giannis.

https://fadeawayworld.net/2019/10/09/nba-rumors-bucks-could-trade-for-cp3/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_NZ_dACxU

Tg11
10-10-2019, 02:03 AM
CP3 to the Bucks also works

Dré
10-27-2019, 05:21 PM
If OKC gives Miami 1 or both of are 1st rd picks back (& Cp3 opts out of the final year of his contract), the deal can get done.

Miami wants to trade for Beal, so they are trying to package, 3 to 4 1st rd picks to Washington. So unless Pat can make this happen...

Cp3/ Nunn
Beal/ Herro
Butler
?
Bam

Dude. Presti is stupid, but he's not THAT freaking stupid. He's not giving you those picks back. Just STOP thinking that. Those picks are a part of the retooling process OKC will likely undergo. If anything, it's going to take throwing in promising young (developing) players (on cheap contracts) AND picks to pry guys like Adams, Danilo, and CP3 from the Thunder.

I get tired of fanatical fans putting out dumb scenarios that will NEVER happen in a million years. Just like T-Wolves fans thinking Presti is willing to give up CP3 and picks for Wiggins (Wiggins who is a literal net negative on any team he's on---dude is so bad, that if I was the GM of the Wolves, I'd pay him just not to play). People on this forum are seriously delusional.

smith&wesson
10-27-2019, 05:26 PM
Other teams CP3 could go to:

1- Charlotte Hornets
2- Minnesota Timberwolves
3- Orlando Magic
4- New York Knicks
5- Indiana Pacers
6- Los Angeles Lakers

These are the only other teams Chris Paul could go to realistically but if he goes to the Lakers, you would have to get rid of Rajon Rondo because Rondo and Paul on the same team is a recipe for disaster considering they hate each other and they wouldn't be able to co-exist. However, if CP3 ends up in LA, would LA even be willing to take on CP3's bad contract? If they do that, they wouldn't be able to go after any big name free agents come 2021 and beyond because money would be tied up because of Paul.

However, CP3 if he were to go to Orlando, it wouldn't be such a bad thing. CP3 would be on a young team but also you pair him up with another All Star in Vucevic, it works out.

Realistic fit, the most realistic is CP3 going to the New York Knicks though.

Why the Hornets? He probably rather stay in OKC than go to the Hornets

Adams, Gallinari, Schroeder, SGA is better than anything the Hornets would ever be able to put around Paul. Plus the Hornets just signed Rozier..

smith&wesson
10-27-2019, 05:30 PM
The question should read who can gut their team to match Paul’s salary and still be considered a contender.

beasted86
10-27-2019, 05:34 PM
Dude. Presti is stupid, but he's not THAT freaking stupid. He's not giving you those picks back. Just STOP thinking that. Those picks are a part of the retooling process OKC will likely undergo. If anything, it's going to take throwing in promising young (developing) players (on cheap contracts) AND picks to pry guys like Adams, Danilo, and CP3 from the Thunder.

I get tired of fanatical fans putting out dumb scenarios that will NEVER happen in a million years. Just like T-Wolves fans thinking Presti is willing to give up CP3 and picks for Wiggins (Wiggins who is a literal net negative on any team he's on---dude is so bad, that if I was the GM of the Wolves, I'd pay him just not to play). People on this forum are seriously delusional.

Delusional = Believing the Thunder are a decent PF away from contending.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Dré
10-27-2019, 05:42 PM
Delusional = Believing the Thunder are a decent PF away from contending.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Thunder are currently up 38 on the Dubs, and were leading by as much as 44 points. They lost two close games, one to a really good team. They are indeed a good stretch PF like Love away from contending. They should have picked up Sefolosha too (for more 3-point shooting). And got rid of Schroder.

You don't know basketball, so quit @ing me.

More-Than-Most
10-27-2019, 05:43 PM
warriors... they could use a real point guard LOL

Dré
10-27-2019, 05:57 PM
warriors... they could use a real point guard LOL

They could use a lot of a lot LOL!!!

That Miami dude implied they were going to be better than the Thunder lmao!!! And I called the GSW regression WAY ahead of the start of the season.

In any case, the west is going to be a blood bath as per usual. Maybe even more so than usual.

Tg11
10-27-2019, 06:59 PM
Chris Paul to the Spurs

beasted86
10-27-2019, 07:46 PM
Thunder are currently up 38 on the Dubs, and were leading by as much as 44 points. They lost two close games, one to a really good team. They are indeed a good stretch PF like Love away from contending. They should have picked up Sefolosha too (for more 3-point shooting). And got rid of Schroder.

You don't know basketball, so quit @ing me.

Who cares if they beat up on a crappy GSW team. OKC sure as hell isn't close to a contender.

It would be entertaining to see somebody who cares do some sort of ban/sig bet on this.

Dré
10-27-2019, 08:14 PM
Who cares if they beat up on a crappy GSW team. OKC sure as hell isn't close to a contender.

Yet you were arguing how much better GSW was than OKC just a few months ago lmao!!! And that's this version of OKC that did virtually nothing in the offseason (that beat the living snot out of them until Donovan felt so sorry for them, that he pulled his a, b, and c squads, and called up the d and f units). Imagine had they went out and signed some solid 3-and-D wings like Sefolosha and swung a deal for a stretch PF of Love's caliber. Heck, they don't even have a perimeter defensive stalwart in Roberson back yet.

This team as currently constructed (IF healthy) could still contend for a low playoff seed. With some added QUALITY depth at some other key positions, they'd be contending for the northwest division title. So keep what I ORIGINALLY said in context. Like I said, you know nothing about basketball, and it shows.

smith&wesson
10-28-2019, 01:12 AM
Chris Paul to the Spurs

Would make sense. Hell they could use Adams too

Tg11
10-28-2019, 07:23 AM
Chris Paul, Steven Adams and a 1st round draft pick lottery protected to the Spurs and in exchange the Thunder receive DeMar DeRozan and Marco Belinelli

TakeAnotherL
10-28-2019, 04:51 PM
Knicks always seem to land the PGs i love the most when their careers are at the end.

Bibby, Marbs, Kidd, Billups...

Old, overpaid, desperate Knicks team....

Yep.....

Dré
10-28-2019, 05:48 PM
Chris Paul, Steven Adams and a 1st round draft pick lottery protected to the Spurs and in exchange the Thunder receive DeMar DeRozan and Marco Belinelli

So two really great players for one good player in DeRozan and a trash player in Belinelli and the Thunder have to give up a pick? Totally makes sense. :facepalm:

Another delusional fan. Presti ain't doing that bruh. I could see a DeRozan for Paul swap, but Adams is going to come at the price of Jakob Potl being thrown in any deal that sees him traded to the Spurs. And San Antonio will have to relinquish a pick and/or picks. Not the other way around.

I like Presti's approach. He's in no rush to lose out on any deal or get fleeced. As much as one should criticize him for having drafted KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka, and Adams, and essentially coming away with nothing to show for it (in the form of a title). He's not stupid enough to get took in any deal moving forward.

Just stop it with the asinine scenarios where the Thunder come out on the raw end. It's wishful thinking at best.

beasted86
10-28-2019, 08:03 PM
Yet you were arguing how much better GSW was than OKC just a few months ago lmao!!! And that's this version of OKC that did virtually nothing in the offseason (that beat the living snot out of them until Donovan felt so sorry for them, that he pulled his a, b, and c squads, and called up the d and f units). Imagine had they went out and signed some solid 3-and-D wings like Sefolosha and swung a deal for a stretch PF of Love's caliber. Heck, they don't even have a perimeter defensive stalwart in Roberson back yet.

This team as currently constructed (IF healthy) could still contend for a low playoff seed. With some added QUALITY depth at some other key positions, they'd be contending for the northwest division title. So keep what I ORIGINALLY said in context. Like I said, you know nothing about basketball, and it shows.

Who was arguing? You're clearly mistaken and making up stories. Go find the playoffs prediction thread and see my comments where I said Warriors had no shot at playoffs even if Klay came back.

You literally said Thunder aren't just a playoff team but a contender with not even a Love caliber, just type. I can quote if needed but don't care that much.

Dré
10-28-2019, 08:20 PM
Who was arguing? You're clearly mistaken and making up stories. Go find the playoffs prediction thread and see my comments where I said Warriors had no shot at playoffs even if Klay came back.

I'm pretty sure I recall you being one of the ones talking about how GSW was better than the Thunder. But whatever, it really ain't that deep for me.


You literally said Thunder aren't just a playoff team but a contender with not even a Love caliber, just type. I can quote if needed but don't care that much.

Indeed. I said they need a stretch big capable of spacing the floor effectively AND rebounding really well. You don't need Love, because a) Love is expensive asf, and b) there are starting-caliber stretch bigs capable of providing what I said galore in this league (and that can be had for much less than Love).

But show me where Presti went out and did any of that??? Most he did was get some PF depth w/ Muscala who's essentially a less athletic Jerami Grant. He didn't even go out and pick up any productive 3-and-D wings for the vet min (nor is Roberson even back yet). This team as currently constructed will compete for a low seed (if their most important players remain healthy). But I stand by what I said, they can easily become a contender with a quality pick-up or two.

Jamiecballer
10-29-2019, 08:28 PM
Chris Paul, Steven Adams and a 1st round draft pick lottery protected to the Spurs and in exchange the Thunder receive DeMar DeRozan and Marco BelinelliI like Pop too but no need to gift him a contender.

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Saddletramp
10-29-2019, 09:00 PM
The Thunder are actually looking pretty good. I like that trade idea centering around Schroeder for Love or some other power forward.

basch152
10-30-2019, 12:57 AM
So two really great players for one good player in DeRozan and a trash player in Belinelli and the Thunder have to give up a pick? Totally makes sense. :facepalm:

Another delusional fan. Presti ain't doing that bruh. I could see a DeRozan for Paul swap, but Adams is going to come at the price of Jakob Potl being thrown in any deal that sees him traded to the Spurs. And San Antonio will have to relinquish a pick and/or picks. Not the other way around.

I like Presti's approach. He's in no rush to lose out on any deal or get fleeced. As much as one should criticize him for having drafted KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka, and Adams, and essentially coming away with nothing to show for it (in the form of a title). He's not stupid enough to get took in any deal moving forward.

Just stop it with the asinine scenarios where the Thunder come out on the raw end. It's wishful thinking at best.

you're calling Adams a great player?

da ****?

Chronz
10-30-2019, 01:46 AM
has anyone mentioned the Twolves?

More-Than-Most
10-30-2019, 05:40 AM
Chris Paul, Steven Adams and a 1st round draft pick lottery protected to the Spurs and in exchange the Thunder receive DeMar DeRozan and Marco Belinelli

the first round pick would be coming from the spurs not going to the spurs.

Heediot
10-30-2019, 07:27 AM
the first round pick would be coming from the spurs not going to the spurs.

Derozan's contract is an expiring with a player option for next year. He might opt out if the cap doesn't reduce.

Adams has this year and the next. Paul has another year and a player option the next. So Thunder having to give up a pick isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

mightybosstone
10-30-2019, 01:28 PM
Chris Paul, Steven Adams and a 1st round draft pick lottery protected to the Spurs and in exchange the Thunder receive DeMar DeRozan and Marco Belinelli

I love how everyone has an opinion on this deal, but nobody actually remembered "Oh yeah, the Thunder would be sending out like $64M+ in contracts. This deal has zero chance of actually being feasible."

The criticisms of this deal, though, do highlight the hardest part about any hypothetical Chris Paul trades: It's almost impossible to deal Paul without sending out some other assets in return, but why would Presti trade away picks to a team that's clearly rebuilding? That's why I don't think Presti is in a hurry to deal Paul, and I'd be a little surprised if he got dealt this season.

Tg11
10-30-2019, 01:32 PM
Or you could always trade Paul to the Miami Heat and pair him up with Jimmy Butler or you could trade Paul to the Washington Wizards for John Wall and others plus draft picks

Mr.B
11-04-2019, 07:47 PM
There had been mention in Dallas that the Mavs were interested in acquiring Chris Paul. I couldn’t tell you if they would have to trade for him or if they would only be interested in a buyout situation.

Personally I would hate this move for the Mavs. Paul has always been a ball dominant guard. I just don’t see the fit with Luka considering Luka (and Brunson) how much he dominates the ball. I’d prefer to see the Mavs continues to develop guys alongside of Luka/KP. If they do make 1 move I’d like to see them acquire another big next to KP, like Tristan Thompson. Someone with a little attitude who can defend and rebound (and not be a total stiff on offense).


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Tg11
11-05-2019, 01:13 PM
CP3 to the Mavs works

Dade County
11-05-2019, 01:19 PM
Or you could always trade Paul to the Miami Heat and pair him up with Jimmy Butler or you could trade Paul to the Washington Wizards for John Wall and others plus draft picks

Nah... Pat will go for younger and better.


The Golden State Warriors are pretty much assured to be terrible during the 2019-2020 season as they have lost superstars to injury and free agency and has them with a lineup where nobody could name a single player.

D’Angelo Russell was supposed to help keep their title hopes alive, but those plans went away once Stephen Curry broke his hand and is now slated to be out for months. As a result, Russell’s name has been thrown into the rumor mill and many think he might be shipped off before February’s annual trade deadline.

Mark Medina of USA Today Sports had this to say:

“It depends on how this season plays out. If the Warriors are still in the playoff hunt, they are better riding that out and then evaluating options in the summer. Plus, D-Lo’s value could be higher after having a productive season in Golden State. If it becomes clear they are a lottery team, the Warriors should extract as much value from a D-Lo trade as much as they can. The Warriors aren’t thinking that way yet. The season is way too early.”

If Russell does indeed get put on the trading block, the Miami Heat could be a team to step up and nab him, according to Zach Frydenlund of Complex.

“Let’s get wild. The Heat need to add more talent around Jimmy Butler and the Warriors need help on the wing after trading Iggy and losing KD. This fits the needs of both teams and sends a first rounder to the Warriors. A Jimmy and D-Lo duo in Miami could be deadly.”

Frydenlund suggested that the Miami Heat could offer a trade package including Justise Winslow, James Johnson, and a 2024 first-round pick to the Warriors in exchange for Russell.

So far during the 2019-2020, Russell is averaging 19 points, 3.6 rebounds, and 6.4 assists.

https://www.totalprosports.com/2019/11/05/rumor-dangelo-russell-could-be-traded-to-the-miami-heat/

DLo & Herro growing together will be a beautiful sight to see. Russell will need a couple of years in the HEAT system to toughen him up a little. lol

Mr.B
11-05-2019, 01:50 PM
CP3 to the Mavs works

I honestly do not see a good fit with the Mavs. He thought he didn’t get the ball enough in Houston. He’s going to go through the same thing in Dallas. As a Mavs fan I’ll pass.


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