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More-Than-Most
07-09-2019, 03:24 AM
Lets go... Lots of teams are insanely close here... are the clippers the best or are the lakers? Are the sixers/bucks more complete compared to the clippers/lakers? How about utah who probably had the best off season of arguably any team.

More-Than-Most
07-09-2019, 03:29 AM
My list

Clippers
Bucks
Sixers
Lakers
Jazz
Warriors
Nuggets
Rockets
Pacers
Celtics.

Blazers/spurs/Raptors could all be right there... pelicans might surprise people as well.

More-Than-Most
07-09-2019, 03:30 AM
My free agency winner is actually utah... I loved everything Utah did this offseason on top of that Dmitch will take a step forward after a down year... Gobert is a god and now their team is packed... I doubt they can beat the Lakers/Clippers or a healthy warriors team but they will make it interesting out west.


The lakers are the biggest wildcard... Depth be damned if they get lebron with a chip on his shoulder he is gonna run through the west but how will his injury/age hurt him?

JAZZNC
07-09-2019, 04:17 AM
My free agency winner is actually utah... I loved everything Utah did this offseason on top of that Dmitch will take a step forward after a down year... Gobert is a god and now their team is packed... I doubt they can beat the Lakers/Clippers or a healthy warriors team but they will make it interesting out west.


The lakers are the biggest wildcard... Depth be damned if they get lebron with a chip on his shoulder he is gonna run through the west but how will his injury/age hurt him?

Did we just become best friends?

More-Than-Most
07-09-2019, 04:31 AM
Did we just become best friends?

lol well i always loved gobert i just didnt like the kobe type of play dmitch played and i still dont... I think he will be smarter though with more help now... If he relies on his shooting when its hot and tries to drive and dish when he isnt the jazz are dangerous... He just cant have his 4-18 shooting nights and keep shooting... I hate the notion shooters should keep shooting... He will be much better this year no doubt and I feel like Utah and their moves are going to be a dangerous team come the playoffs. What they did this off season is amazing.

More-Than-Most
07-09-2019, 04:37 AM
Utah right now would be a downright nasty matchup for warriors/Rockets even if those teams are healthy. This season is gonna be lit.

JAZZNC
07-09-2019, 05:07 AM
lol well i always loved gobert i just didnt like the kobe type of play dmitch played and i still dont... I think he will be smarter though with more help now... If he relies on his shooting when its hot and tries to drive and dish when he isnt the jazz are dangerous... He just cant have his 4-18 shooting nights and keep shooting... I hate the notion shooters should keep shooting... He will be much better this year no doubt and I feel like Utah and their moves are going to be a dangerous team come the playoffs. What they did this off season is amazing.

I don't like his hero ball either but damn man what else was there? He made a ton of passes to wide *** open people last year that couldn't hit em. This year on paper anyway it's different. He's gotta really just be smarter and decrease the degree of difficulty of some of his shots This year he doesn't have any excuses. I also expect him to be better defensively since he doesn't have to carry all the load offensively anymore. He's got the length, build, and athleticism to be a great defender. He just has to do it.

But like you said this NBA season is gonna be GREAT! It can't get going quick enough.

More-Than-Most
07-09-2019, 05:23 AM
I don't like his hero ball either but damn man what else was there? He made a ton of passes to wide *** open people last year that couldn't hit em. This year on paper anyway it's different. He's gotta really just be smarter and decrease the degree of difficulty of some of his shots This year he doesn't have any excuses. I also expect him to be better defensively since he doesn't have to carry all the load offensively anymore. He's got the length, build, and athleticism to be a great defender. He just has to do it.

But like you said this NBA season is gonna be GREAT! It can't get going quick enough.

yup there is gonna be a sick amount of legit teams eliminated in the first and 2nd round in both conferences.

valade16
07-09-2019, 08:05 AM
The Blazers are one of the Top 10 teams in basketball. But we go through this every year. People leave them out or have them as a fringe playoff team and then they get the 3rd seed in the West.

crewfan13
07-09-2019, 09:44 AM
The Blazers are one of the Top 10 teams in basketball. But we go through this every year. People leave them out or have them as a fringe playoff team and then they get the 3rd seed in the West.

The question for me with the blazers is are they actually a playoff team or just a regular season team. I thibk you're right that they deserve to be in the top 10, but I'm not sure their finish in the west is always indicative of their playoff potential.

Guys like LeBron and kawhi will still get their rest. So it wouldnt shock me at all if teams like Portland, Utah and Denver finish close or above them in the regular season. But both LA teams probably make more noise in the playoffs.

valade16
07-09-2019, 10:15 AM
The question for me with the blazers is are they actually a playoff team or just a regular season team. I thibk you're right that they deserve to be in the top 10, but I'm not sure their finish in the west is always indicative of their playoff potential.

Guys like LeBron and kawhi will still get their rest. So it wouldnt shock me at all if teams like Portland, Utah and Denver finish close or above them in the regular season. But both LA teams probably make more noise in the playoffs.

Well Portland made the WCF just last season, beating the Denver Nuggets to get there. You are thinking of the season before.

Heediot
07-09-2019, 10:19 AM
yup there is gonna be a sick amount of legit teams eliminated in the first and 2nd round in both conferences.

both lmao!!

Sixers and Bucks are the only contenders in the east.Maybe Boston if the young guys make a jump and they get good big man play.

WaDe03
07-09-2019, 10:38 AM
Let my HEAT get West before making predictions.

Best offseasons in order:

Heat
Clippers
Jazz

IndyRealist
07-09-2019, 10:49 AM
Whether Utah is a 2nd round elim or going to the Finals entirely depends on Mitchell. Everyone else is a known quantity. Maybe Conley will make him better or he will get better with age.

Giannis94
07-09-2019, 10:51 AM
both lmao!!

Sixers and Bucks are the only contenders in the east.Maybe Boston if the young guys make a jump and they get good big man play.

Nah. bucks are destined for the lottery after losing ROY broggy

TheDish87
07-09-2019, 10:58 AM
Let my HEAT get West before making predictions.

Best offseasons in order:

Heat
Clippers
Jazz

lol dont be a homer. LAC wont the offseason in a landslide and its not even a little close.

Switch
07-09-2019, 11:05 AM
Heat? Lmao. Clippers won this off season by a land slide. It's not even close.

My top 10

Clippers
Lakers
Jazz
Blazers
Bucks
Sixers
Nuggets
Rockets
Spurs
Pacers


Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

smith&wesson
07-09-2019, 12:07 PM
Let my HEAT get West before making predictions.

Best offseasons in order:

Heat
Clippers
Jazz

Bruh, you can start by putting some respect in his name. It’s Westbrook not West. That’s like saying Wad instead of Wade lol.

WB, Russ etc those work to. But West don’t work lol

smith&wesson
07-09-2019, 12:09 PM
lol dont be a homer. LAC wont the offseason in a landslide and its not even a little close.

Yeah by a long shot. . They owned

NBA all the way
07-09-2019, 12:22 PM
Man, that's tough.

1. Clippers
2. Lakers
3. Bucks
4. 76ers
5. Jazz
6. Warriors
7. Nuggets
8. Rockets
9. Blazers
10. Celtics

I honestly don't know, a few of these teams will coast and be building chemistry but just off talent alone, I think it shakes out something close to that, as far as 10 best in the league.

TheDish87
07-09-2019, 12:28 PM
top 10 in terms of contending for the title I would go with

1. Clippers
2. Sixers
3. Bucks
4. Nuggets
5. Jazz
6. Warriors
7. Lakers
8. Blazers
9. Rockets
10. Celtics

smith&wesson
07-09-2019, 12:42 PM
top 10 in terms of contending for the title I would go with

1. Clippers
2. Sixers
3. Bucks
4. Nuggets
5. Jazz
6. Warriors
7. Lakers
8. Blazers
9. Rockets
10. Celtics


I agree with your list mostly. I just have the 6ers lower after losing Butler & Reddick. Especially Butler who carried them in stretches.

Rivera
07-09-2019, 01:05 PM
this is tough, because im going to leave out a team probably and with so many new pieces, hard to see how they will gel

for this, im going to assume KD is out the entire season and not coming back, im also going to assume Klay will be back by March/April

I also wish MPJR didnt get injured again, even though he should be back by the start of the season, with another injury i dont know what I am going to get out of him and how long he will be on the floor. I would rank the Nuggs higher if it wasnt that MPJR didnt get hurt again

for contenders to win the title

Clips
Lakers
Rockets
76ers
Bucks
Celtics
Jazz
Blazers
Nuggets
Warriors

the main reason i dont put LAL #1 is because of injury questions

AD seems to always get hurt somehow
DMC should be rounding into form
LBJ is getting older and coming off an injury

im dying to put Indy on this list too, but im scared of their depth and not sure how Oladpio will come back. IF Holliday and Leaf grow into solid role players off the bench and can contribute a solid 17-24 min I may reconsider, but I just dont know

smith&wesson
07-09-2019, 01:16 PM
this is tough, because im going to leave out a team probably and with so many new pieces, hard to see how they will gel

for this, im going to assume KD is out the entire season and not coming back, im also going to assume Klay will be back by March/April

I also wish MPJR didnt get injured again, even though he should be back by the start of the season, with another injury i dont know what I am going to get out of him and how long he will be on the floor. I would rank the Nuggs higher if it wasnt that MPJR didnt get hurt again

for contenders to win the title

Clips
Lakers
Rockets
76ers
Bucks
Celtics
Jazz
Blazers
Nuggets
Warriors

the main reason i dont put LAL #1 is because of injury questions

AD seems to always get hurt somehow
DMC should be rounding into form
LBJ is getting older and coming off an injury

im dying to put Indy on this list too, but im scared of their depth and not sure how Oladpio will come back. IF Holliday and Leaf grow into solid role players off the bench and can contribute a solid 17-24 min I may reconsider, but I just dont know

Yeah I don’t know what to expect from the pacers. They lost Bogdonavic, Thad Young, and Collison but got Brogdon and Warren which were nice pick up’s.

WaDe03
07-09-2019, 01:22 PM
Clippers did what they were expected to do. Miami built a contender with 0 cap space.

TheDish87
07-09-2019, 01:28 PM
Clippers did what they were expected to do. Miami built a contender with 0 cap space.

Cilppers werent expect to trade for PG, stop it. Miami didnt build a contender, they didnt even build a likely top 4 seed team.

IndyRealist
07-09-2019, 01:30 PM
Clippers did what they were expected to do. Miami built a contender with 0 cap space.

You think Miami is a contender with RWB and Butler? Who do you project their 8 man rotation to be?

Cal827
07-09-2019, 01:37 PM
It's just great looking at everyone's top 10s and saying "Hey, most of these guys have a legitimate claim at a title" :laugh2:


List:

1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Sixers
4. Jazz
5. Nuggets
6. Pacers
7. Lakers
8. Blazers
9. Celtics
10. Rockets/Warriors

Cal827
07-09-2019, 01:38 PM
It's just great looking at everyone's top 10s and saying "Hey, most of these guys have a legitimate claim at a title" :laugh2:


List:

1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Sixers
4. Jazz
5. Nuggets
6. Pacers
7. Blazers
8. Celtics
9. Lakers
10. Rockets/Warriors

WaDe03
07-09-2019, 01:43 PM
You think Miami is a contender with RWB and Butler? Who do you project their 8 man rotation to be?

We’re going to have to see post trade. Moves aren’t done and Cleveland is being talked about as a 3rd team. Miami will go after love after this.

WaDe03
07-09-2019, 01:44 PM
Cilppers werent expect to trade for PG, stop it. Miami didnt build a contender, they didnt even build a likely top 4 seed team.

Who will finish higher in the east?

“Riley isn’t interested”

crewfan13
07-09-2019, 02:02 PM
It's just great looking at everyone's top 10s and saying "Hey, most of these guys have a legitimate claim at a title" :laugh2:


List:

1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Sixers
4. Jazz
5. Nuggets
6. Pacers
7. Blazers
8. Celtics
9. Lakers
10. Rockets/Warriors

I do love what the jazz did. My hesitation with them is that it's rare for a team without a true superstar to go far. I don't think they have a true superstar. My other hesitation with them is that teams without much deep playoff experience usually don't make deep runs too often. The bucks made the jump last year but struggled when they finally got punched in the mouth in the ECF. Conley is really the only jazz with legit playoff experience. And they'll get punched in the mouth early in the western conference playoffs.

rc33
07-09-2019, 02:27 PM
Lakers could be anywhere from #2-8 on this list. But in general I'm pretty sure they'll be good.
The entire Western Conference is gonna be crazy fun to watch.
OKC is a goner next postseason and I'm fading on HOU a bit.
Replaced by LAL but there's other intriguing postseason possibilities out there like SAC and DAL.

MIL and PHI in the East.
I like Indy but Boston's the sneaky team to watch out there.
I'm 100% sure it'll turn out to be addition by subtraction with Kyrie leaving.
They'll miss Horford but let's remember, Al still did just 13.6 and 6.7 last year.
It's not as if they're trying to replace early 2000's Shaq.
I think they can piece together enough to cover for him (and maybe improve in rebounding.)
I still like their players, Brad Stevens and if the chemistry returns (I'm thinking it will) they could be right there with the Bucks and Sixers.

TheDish87
07-09-2019, 02:27 PM
Who will finish higher in the east?

“Riley isn’t interested”

youre not serious? Sixers will be a top 2 team in the East while butler is scrapping for that 6 seed, maybe 5th.

Switch
07-09-2019, 02:46 PM
Clippers did what they were expected to do. Miami built a contender with 0 cap space.They weren't "expected" to trade for George

And how the **** are they contenders? That is laghbable

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

WaDe03
07-09-2019, 02:58 PM
youre not serious? Sixers will be a top 2 team in the East while butler is scrapping for that 6 seed, maybe 5th.

With Westbrook the top 3 teams are the heat bucks and Sixers. Please make a case for anyone else above those 3.

WaDe03
07-09-2019, 02:59 PM
They weren't "expected" to trade for George

And how the **** are they contenders? That is laghbable

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

They’re not done, Riley’s about to flip the “Switch”

Oefarmy2005
07-09-2019, 03:26 PM
1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Lakers
4. 76ers
5. Jazz
6. Nuggets
7. Celtics
8. Rockets
9. Warriors
10. Blazers

The Nets are in the 4-6 range when Durant comes back, same with the Warriors and Clay.

TheDish87
07-09-2019, 03:52 PM
With Westbrook the top 3 teams are the heat bucks and Sixers. Please make a case for anyone else above those 3.

lol miami doesnt have russ though. even if they do we all will be looking forward to that first inevitable brawl as the season blows up. Russ couldnt win with PG and KD playing at MVP levels whats he gonna do with Butler and a bunch of mediocre role players?

IndyRealist
07-09-2019, 04:08 PM
With Westbrook the top 3 teams are the heat bucks and Sixers. Please make a case for anyone else above those 3.

Simple. You don't know what the heat roster will be. If you have RWB, Butler and 13 G-Leaguers/retirees you're not going to be a top 3 team. You don't even know if Russ and Jimmy can play together. Teams with continuity don't have that problem. You might make a case for Miami post RWB trade and see who they retain. I'm hoping they keep Bam but they need to add some shooters.

WaDe03
07-09-2019, 05:12 PM
We got shooters. Herro Duncan Kelly Leonard justise Waiters Dragic

Just stay tuned and keep sleeping in the mean time.

Laker life n az
07-09-2019, 05:13 PM
Top 10 talent, fit, injuries. not what their records will be

Clippers
Lakers
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Boston
Denver
Portland
Golden state
Brooklyn
Dallas

MygirlhatesCod
07-09-2019, 05:21 PM
I absolutely love the warrior hate! Kd is gone so the warriors are barely a top ten team. But kd joined a historical team that never needed him. Not sure which is true.
You guys on here Are the most hypocritical parakeets!
Dubs finish top three in the west!

IndyRealist
07-09-2019, 05:26 PM
We got shooters. Herro Duncan Kelly Leonard justise Waiters Dragic

Just stay tuned and keep sleeping in the mean time.

Again, a bunch of those guys could be gone shortly.

Bostonjorge
07-09-2019, 05:28 PM
Davis swept the 3rd seed Blazers in 2018. The same Blazers team that took down George and Okc last year. Now Davis has Kuzma and being led by James. Lakers have a strong case for #1 and are neck and neck with the Clippers.

bostncelts34
07-10-2019, 10:07 AM
1. Clippers
2.Lakers
3.Bucks
4 Philly
5.Utah
6.Denver
7.Boston
8.Portland
9.GS
10. Rockets/indiana

Man that's hard after the first few...so many teams with so many questions. Injuries/how will they be when thehy get back to Klay,Dipo etc. Then the question of fit and gel. I LOVE it.

mightybosstone
07-10-2019, 10:28 AM
Super, super hard to know exactly what these teams are going to look like in reality, but if I had to put them in order, it would be something like this:

1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Warriors (assuming health of Thompson)
4. Rockets
5. Lakers
6. Sixers
7. Jazz
8. Nuggets
9. Blazers
10. Pacers

Edit: And, yes, I think some of you are drastically underrating Houston (again) despite returning a core team that the best record in the league the second half of last season.

Rivera
07-10-2019, 11:48 AM
Super, super hard to know exactly what these teams are going to look like in reality, but if I had to put them in order, it would be something like this:

1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Warriors (assuming health of Thompson)
4. Rockets
5. Lakers
6. Sixers
7. Jazz
8. Nuggets
9. Blazers
10. Pacers

Edit: And, yes, I think some of you are drastically underrating Houston (again) despite returning a core team that the best record in the league the second half of last season.

i have the rockets higher than you :p

just messing with ya MBT!

No love for the Cs? With Kyrie's distraction now gone from the locker room and placing him with a hungry Kemba who has only been in the playoffs 2x do you think they can get the chemistry they had 2 seasons ago?

crewfan13
07-10-2019, 11:54 AM
I absolutely love the warrior hate! Kd is gone so the warriors are barely a top ten team. But kd joined a historical team that never needed him. Not sure which is true.
You guys on here Are the most hypocritical parakeets!
Dubs finish top three in the west!

Beleive it or not, both can be true. Those warriors teams that were elite before had younger versions of guys like iggy and Livingston, heck even a younger bogut helped. They were never crazy deep, but they had more talent pre Durant than they do post Durant. Add in klays injury and it's not unreasonable to have them near the bottom or maybe even just outside the top 10.

crewfan13
07-10-2019, 12:03 PM
Super, super hard to know exactly what these teams are going to look like in reality, but if I had to put them in order, it would be something like this:

1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Warriors (assuming health of Thompson)
4. Rockets
5. Lakers
6. Sixers
7. Jazz
8. Nuggets
9. Blazers
10. Pacers

Edit: And, yes, I think some of you are drastically underrating Houston (again) despite returning a core team that the best record in the league the second half of last season.

I would tend to agree on Houston. But I also think there's a chance that Houston just blows up too. I tend to have them higher than most and I think it's hard to say Utah, Denver or Portland would legit be favored in a playoff series vs a healthy Houston. But I do think there is some downside risk that harden and Paul blow up at one another and if harden can't replicate his historic efficiency, then they could be worse.


i have the rockets higher than you :p

just messing with ya MBT!

No love for the Cs? With Kyrie's distraction now gone from the locker room and placing him with a hungry Kemba who has only been in the playoffs 2x do you think they can get the chemistry they had 2 seasons ago?

I mean, fit wise I agree there's a legit arguement that Kemba could be better than kyrie. But its not just kemba vs kyrie. It's kemba and Kanter plus rookies vs kyrie, Horford, Morris and Rozier. And I find it hard to argue for the former unless there's significant growth from brown or tatum. At times, especially in some playoff games, there was a legit arguement that Horford and even Morris were two of the most important players on that team.

mightybosstone
07-10-2019, 12:20 PM
i have the rockets higher than you :p

just messing with ya MBT!

No love for the Cs? With Kyrie's distraction now gone from the locker room and placing him with a hungry Kemba who has only been in the playoffs 2x do you think they can get the chemistry they had 2 seasons ago?

I think swapping Kyrie for Kemba is definitely an improvement and a big step forward, and it's realistic to think Tatum and Brown will each get a little better. But Kanter filling in for Horford is a pretty massive step back, IMO, and the Celtics lost some really solid rotational guys in Rozier and Morris. Defensively, that team is going to be worse—how can it not be when you're swapping out one of the best defensive bigs in the league at center for one of the worst defensive big men of the last decade?

The wildcard in all of this is Hayward. If he somehow regains his form pre-injury, the Celtics could be a top 5 team in the league. If he's the same guy as last year, I think they'd be lucky to finish top 3 in the East and likely end up in that 4-6 range. And I don't think they'd be as good as the 6-7 best teams in the West.

But I haven't paid that much attention to the Celtics this summer. Is there something I'm missing? Did they add another big piece I don't know about that would lead to a more optimistic outlook?

mightybosstone
07-10-2019, 12:23 PM
I would tend to agree on Houston. But I also think there's a chance that Houston just blows up too. I tend to have them higher than most and I think it's hard to say Utah, Denver or Portland would legit be favored in a playoff series vs a healthy Houston. But I do think there is some downside risk that harden and Paul blow up at one another and if harden can't replicate his historic efficiency, then they could be worse.


I think the Harden vs. Paul stuff has been seriously overblown this offseason. The bigger concern for me would be the coaching situation and whether D'Antoni would get fired if things go south early in the season like McHale did a few years ago. That on top of what version of Chris Paul we get this year. Even with him getting older, there's reason to think he might be a little better than last year when his shooting percentages and scoring efficiency took pretty big dips from his career averages.

But assuming D'Antoni keeps his job and Paul is at least as good as he was last season, I don't see why the Rockets don't still win 50-55+ games this season and end up with a top 4 seed in the West.

Rivera
07-10-2019, 01:11 PM
I think swapping Kyrie for Kemba is definitely an improvement and a big step forward, and it's realistic to think Tatum and Brown will each get a little better. But Kanter filling in for Horford is a pretty massive step back, IMO, and the Celtics lost some really solid rotational guys in Rozier and Morris. Defensively, that team is going to be worse—how can it not be when you're swapping out one of the best defensive bigs in the league at center for one of the worst defensive big men of the last decade?

The wildcard in all of this is Hayward. If he somehow regains his form pre-injury, the Celtics could be a top 5 team in the league. If he's the same guy as last year, I think they'd be lucky to finish top 3 in the East and likely end up in that 4-6 range. And I don't think they'd be as good as the 6-7 best teams in the West.

But I haven't paid that much attention to the Celtics this summer. Is there something I'm missing? Did they add another big piece I don't know about that would lead to a more optimistic outlook?


no you arent far off, and your analysis is very fair. the main argument I would have to counter your analysis is two things

1) this is a more Brad Stevens roster. Brad in college uses his bigs as screen setters/rebounders/rim protectors. Kanter and Theiss will be able to fill that role just fine. Theiss is a solid screen setter and from what I have seen from Kanter he seems like a solid screen setter as well. I dont have any stats to back that up though, only from what I have watched.

2) the roles are more clearly defined. Boston doesnt have as much "talent" as they had last season but that should mean people are more comfortable in their roles, and be able to maximize their skills a bit more

Smart and Gordon is going to play back up PG, Gordon had a ton of ball handling duties off the bench part of what made Rozier so unhappy last season

Boston probably is hoping for Robert Williams to grow more this season and play more from his rookie season last year.

After speaking with Vlade, he made it a point to say Kanters defense isnt as bad as we all thought, and his playoff stats back it up that he was actually a + defender during the season (not A+, just +)

Im thinking that Boston will have less distractions, Brown and Tatum should have the ball more which will allow them to be better and grow as the season progresses and like you say, Hayward is the wild card. Depending on how he returns and if he can get back to Gordon Utah could be a huge boost.

I wish they would have kept Morris. Even though the Al loss was big, I think loosing Morris versatillity is a low key big loss for the Cs. Dude had tons of heart, energy, and defensive toughness, heres hoping Semi can fill that role some what adequately.

crewfan13
07-10-2019, 01:29 PM
no you arent far off, and your analysis is very fair. the main argument I would have to counter your analysis is two things

1) this is a more Brad Stevens roster. Brad in college uses his bigs as screen setters/rebounders/rim protectors. Kanter and Theiss will be able to fill that role just fine. Theiss is a solid screen setter and from what I have seen from Kanter he seems like a solid screen setter as well. I dont have any stats to back that up though, only from what I have watched.

2) the roles are more clearly defined. Boston doesnt have as much "talent" as they had last season but that should mean people are more comfortable in their roles, and be able to maximize their skills a bit more

Smart and Gordon is going to play back up PG, Gordon had a ton of ball handling duties off the bench part of what made Rozier so unhappy last season

Boston probably is hoping for Robert Williams to grow more this season and play more from his rookie season last year.

After speaking with Vlade, he made it a point to say Kanters defense isnt as bad as we all thought, and his playoff stats back it up that he was actually a + defender during the season (not A+, just +)

Im thinking that Boston will have less distractions, Brown and Tatum should have the ball more which will allow them to be better and grow as the season progresses and like you say, Hayward is the wild card. Depending on how he returns and if he can get back to Gordon Utah could be a huge boost.

I wish they would have kept Morris. Even though the Al loss was big, I think loosing Morris versatillity is a low key big loss for the Cs. Dude had tons of heart, energy, and defensive toughness, heres hoping Semi can fill that role some what adequately.

That tends to be a lot of ifs and projections though. And while basically every team has a bunch of question marks, Bostons all mainly come from people fitting better and playing better. That's not a terrible thing. But at the end of the day the Celtics were exposed in the playoffs as pretty clearly a step below the east elites and are now less talented. It's possible fits and player growth make up for that, but becoming less talented usually isn't the best recipe.

At the end of the day they're still probably the 3rd or 4th team in the east. There's a chance Brooklyn could take a jump, but without Durant, they probably don't pass Boston this year. But I do think the gap between MIL/PHI and BOS has probably increased.

mightybosstone
07-10-2019, 01:38 PM
That tends to be a lot of ifs and projections though. And while basically every team has a bunch of question marks, Bostons all mainly come from people fitting better and playing better. That's not a terrible thing. But at the end of the day the Celtics were exposed in the playoffs as pretty clearly a step below the east elites and are now less talented. It's possible fits and player growth make up for that, but becoming less talented usually isn't the best recipe.

At the end of the day they're still probably the 3rd or 4th team in the east. There's a chance Brooklyn could take a jump, but without Durant, they probably don't pass Boston this year. But I do think the gap between MIL/PHI and BOS has probably increased.

Yeah, pretty much this. Also, I definitely think Indiana will be better than last season with the Brogdon and Lamb additions, and having Oladipo hopefully healthy for a full season would certainly help. On paper, I think Indiana is the better basketball team today than Boston.

Rivera, I like the moves for Boston in terms of the future of the franchise. But they're still one big acquisition or trade away from being contenders. Hayward's injury didn't do them any favors, and they lost such big contributors in Horford and Morris that I don't see them legitimately competing to win the conference next season. If they somehow do it will be because Hayward, Tatum and/or Brown made huge leaps forward or because they made a big trade mid-season. As constructed, though, I don't see how they're not worse than last season right now...

Rivera
07-10-2019, 02:43 PM
That tends to be a lot of ifs and projections though. And while basically every team has a bunch of question marks, Bostons all mainly come from people fitting better and playing better. That's not a terrible thing. But at the end of the day the Celtics were exposed in the playoffs as pretty clearly a step below the east elites and are now less talented. It's possible fits and player growth make up for that, but becoming less talented usually isn't the best recipe.

At the end of the day they're still probably the 3rd or 4th team in the east. There's a chance Brooklyn could take a jump, but without Durant, they probably don't pass Boston this year. But I do think the gap between MIL/PHI and BOS has probably increased.

fair, I am projecting, but to be fair, isnt what this thread is about? projecting? because we havent seen them play together or how these pieces on these new teams fit :laugh2:

Rivera
07-10-2019, 02:50 PM
Yeah, pretty much this. Also, I definitely think Indiana will be better than last season with the Brogdon and Lamb additions, and having Oladipo hopefully healthy for a full season would certainly help. On paper, I think Indiana is the better basketball team today than Boston.

Rivera, I like the moves for Boston in terms of the future of the franchise. But they're still one big acquisition or trade away from being contenders. Hayward's injury didn't do them any favors, and they lost such big contributors in Horford and Morris that I don't see them legitimately competing to win the conference next season. If they somehow do it will be because Hayward, Tatum and/or Brown made huge leaps forward or because they made a big trade mid-season. As constructed, though, I don't see how they're not worse than last season right now...

its a crazy thing right? cause when they had less talent, they were the #1 seed and made it to the ECF. with more talent, they were the 4 seed and was ousted in the 2nd round. I know that sounds backwards, but its exactly what happened haha

I do expect big leaps from both Brown and Tatum, mainly because they will get the chance by having the ball versus what Boston turned into last season. Which was, hey look, I got the ball finally, let me iso and shoot. Which is the chemistry Kyrie help create. Could be the same with Kemba for sure, but I do expect Tatum to take the leap we thought he would take last season, and with less ball handlers, Jaylen should take a good leap as well with more offensive responsibility.

I love Indy, I love the moves they made. Warren/Brogdon/Lamb. They fit right into their style.

crewfan13
07-10-2019, 03:52 PM
fair, I am projecting, but to be fair, isnt what this thread is about? projecting? because we havent seen them play together or how these pieces on these new teams fit :laugh2:

True, but in alot of cases it's projecting guys fitting together. In this case, that's part of it, but another big part of it is projecting improvement. Those dudes are young, so there's a decent chance at improving. But the flip side is maybe tatum just is who he is. He was basically the same guy last year he was as a rookie. Maybe that's because of Irving. Or maybe that's just the player he is.

And to me, kemba can help change the culture to an extent. If kyrie was an issue in the locker room or caused discomfort in the locker room, then kemba could help that for sure. But as far as on the court, kemba is really similar to kyrie. They may look different in how they do it, but the result is largely the same.

Dont get me wrong, culture change could be huge. Buy in could be huge. We dont really know how bad things were inside the locker room last year. But as far as on the court goes, kemba is less efficient, took more shots and had a lower assist rate. Like I've said, his team was worse, so it's not shocking to see him be used more and shoot more. But that's been his whole career. Do we really think a guy that's spent 8 years in the pros mostly as the alpha dog is going to come in and turn into a significantly different player? It's possible, but not super likely. It's fairly likely he actually plays a very similar role to kyrie and that the extra ***** come from Horford and guys. But at the end of the day, it's not written in stone that guys like Tatum and brown are now getting the ball a bunch more.

mike_noodles
07-10-2019, 09:26 PM
I got...

Clippers
Nuggets
Bucks
Lakers
Sixers
Warriors
Rockets
Blazers
Jazz
Pacers

I think the Nuggets will have the best regular season record, but the Clippers are better built for the playoffs.

Bostonjorge
07-10-2019, 10:42 PM
Looking at the teams being named is getting me excited for next year.

They should really make it the top 16 teams overall. Mavs and Kings will make it tough for the east teams. Spurs might even take out one of the top east teams.

tredigs
07-10-2019, 11:44 PM
Here are the current betting line win total prognostications: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

1. Clippers - 56.5
2. Bucks - 55.5
3. Sixers - 53.5
- Jazz - 53.5
5. Rockets - 51.5
- Lakers - 51.5
7. Nuggets - 50.5
8. Celtics - 48.5
9. Pacers - 47.5
- Warriors - 47.5
- Nets - 47.5
12. Spurs - 45.5
- Blazers - 45.5
- Raptors - 45.5

Those are the current lines for the top 14 in the league (8 West).

Heediot
07-11-2019, 08:30 AM
Super, super hard to know exactly what these teams are going to look like in reality, but if I had to put them in order, it would be something like this:

1. Clippers
2. Bucks
3. Warriors (assuming health of Thompson)
4. Rockets
5. Lakers
6. Sixers
7. Jazz
8. Nuggets
9. Blazers
10. Pacers

Edit: And, yes, I think some of you are drastically underrating Houston (again) despite returning a core team that the best record in the league the second half of last season.

Paul and tucker get a year older. They will do fine in the regular season, but I like LAL-LAC-GS better when it matters. Nuggets should do better with more growth and continuity. MPJ is a wild card as well. They are surrounding Jokic with the right defenders as well. Jazz got better. Portland too. GS got worse but if they can turn Russell into better support pieces, they are still a force if Klay is healthy.

Paul will probably decline further and tucker might start slipping as well.

I think they will have a top 5 record possibly, but I definitely don't think they are a top 5 team.

Also, after last season, I think ring chasers and cheap fa's are turned off by the way Harden is playing so they havent really improved their depth. The locker room chemistry and cohesion is rumored to be iffy, who knows how Clint plays after being shopped around?

warfelg
07-11-2019, 08:46 AM
So are we going regular season or post season?

Reg season it's gonna be:
1 Clippers
2 Jazz
3 Sixers
4 Bucks
5 Rockets
6 Lakers
7 Nets
8 Nuggets
9 Blazers
10 Pacers

Next 5:
11 Celtics
12 Mavericks
13 Raptors
14 Pelicans
15 Spurs

WaDe03
07-11-2019, 09:52 AM
So are we going regular season or post season?

Reg season it's gonna be:
1 Clippers
2 Jazz
3 Sixers
4 Bucks
5 Rockets
6 Lakers
7 Nets
8 Nuggets
9 Blazers
10 Pacers

Next 5:
11 Celtics
12 Mavericks
13 Raptors
14 Pelicans
15 Spurs

This is funny

warfelg
07-11-2019, 09:59 AM
Sorry I'm not willing to put the faith a team that missed the playoffs last year that added yes a star, but subtracted some to do so not being in the top 15. Especially when you are only ranking them high based on a rumored interest of a deal. If it happens they're still only in the 12-14 range for me.

WaDe03
07-11-2019, 10:08 AM
Sorry I'm not willing to put the faith a team that missed the playoffs last year that added yes a star, but subtracted some to do so not being in the top 15. Especially when you are only ranking them high based on a rumored interest of a deal. If it happens they're still only in the 12-14 range for me.

They lost JRich and Whiteside lmao. A good player and a guy who quit caring after he got paid and was unplayable at times. The rest of the list is funny too though. You guys try too hard to think outside the box in here.

tredigs
07-11-2019, 11:13 AM
So are we going regular season or post season?

Reg season it's gonna be:
1 Clippers
2 Jazz
3 Sixers
4 Bucks
5 Rockets
6 Lakers
7 Nets
8 Nuggets
9 Blazers
10 Pacers

Next 5:
11 Celtics
12 Mavericks
13 Raptors
14 Pelicans
15 Spurs

Forgot the Warriors. Spurs below Pels and Mavs feels pretty unlikely. How much Porzingis time are we getting?

warfelg
07-11-2019, 11:15 AM
Forgot the Warriors. Spurs below Pels and Mavs feels pretty unlikely. How much Porzingis time are we getting?

Pels are going to be better than anticipated. Mavs still have Luka and improved in other areas along with adding KP and not having to force Dirk minutes is going to boost them.

Warriors...Klay won’t be back til late, DLo and Curry fit is unknown, and have 0 depth.

tredigs
07-11-2019, 11:36 AM
Pels are going to be better than anticipated. Mavs still have Luka and improved in other areas along with adding KP and not having to force Dirk minutes is going to boost them.

Warriors...Klay won’t be back til late, DLo and Curry fit is unknown, and have 0 depth.

Disagree on both Mavs and Pels. Who did the Spurs really lose from a 48 win team? Uphill battle to pass them.

LOL and oh **** you honestly think the Warriors are the 11th best team (or lower?) in the West? :laugh: They're not going to fight for the 1 seed like some are thinking, but that's a pretty silly take. That's about where I would place them with Ricky Rubio in place of Curry. If they stay healthy theyre not missing the playoffs and will make an outside push for HCA. Prob finish around 6th.

valade16
07-11-2019, 12:14 PM
I want to know why people are so quick to put the Pels and Mavs over the Kings when it comes to young teams.

If I were to bet on regular season records for the West I'd go something like:

1. Houston
2. Denver
3. LA Clippers
4. LA Lakers
5. Utah
6. Portland
7. Warriors
8. Spurs
9. Kings
10. Mavericks
11. Pelicans

TrueFan420
07-11-2019, 12:22 PM
So are we going regular season or post season?

Reg season it's gonna be:
1 Clippers
2 Jazz
3 Sixers
4 Bucks
5 Rockets
6 Lakers
7 Nets
8 Nuggets
9 Blazers
10 Pacers

Next 5:
11 Celtics
12 Mavericks
13 Raptors
14 Pelicans
15 Spurs

You legit think the Warriors won’t be in the top 15?

warfelg
07-11-2019, 12:51 PM
You legit think the Warriors won’t be in the top 15?

I think they're a 6-9 seed in the west this year. I just think they lost too much and didn't replace it.

warfelg
07-11-2019, 12:53 PM
Disagree on both Mavs and Pels. Who did the Spurs really lose from a 48 win team? Uphill battle to pass them.

What did the Spurs gain? Meanwhile look at what the Cavs and Pels gained.


LOL and oh **** you honestly think the Warriors are the 11th best team (or lower?) in the West?

Reading is key

MygirlhatesCod
07-11-2019, 01:50 PM
So are we going regular season or post season?

Reg season it's gonna be:
1 Clippers
2 Jazz
3 Sixers
4 Bucks
5 Rockets
6 Lakers
7 Nets
8 Nuggets
9 Blazers
10 Pacers

Next 5:
11 Celtics
12 Mavericks
13 Raptors
14 Pelicans
15 Spurs

Do you think the subtraction of Butler puts the sixers ahead of the bucks?

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-11-2019, 02:52 PM
The West is so much better and deeper than the East. I know it's always like this, but this year it's bad.

Rivera
07-11-2019, 02:54 PM
What did the Spurs gain? Meanwhile look at what the Cavs and Pels gained.



Reading is key

A fully healthy Dejounte Murray who was supposed to be their starting up and coming point guard. One of the best defensive PGs in the NBA.

Another year of experience for 2 players who "broke out" and made a name for themselves in the series vs Denver. PG Derrick White and SG Bryn Forbes.

Last seasons 1st round pick Lonnie Walker who showed flashes of explosiveness got one more year of experience, and offseason to improve. He should be ready to contribute off the bench. They are a playoff team where the Pels are a fun young team who doesnt know any better. They have to learn how to play together, learn how to make the playoffs, where as the Spurs players all know this and have a better coach/system for player development.

NBA all the way
07-11-2019, 03:04 PM
So are we going regular season or post season?

Reg season it's gonna be:
1 Clippers
2 Jazz
3 Sixers
4 Bucks
5 Rockets
6 Lakers
7 Nets
8 Nuggets
9 Blazers
10 Pacers

Next 5:
11 Celtics
12 Mavericks
13 Raptors
14 Pelicans
15 Spurs

So based on this you have the West as

1. Clippers
2. Jazz
3. Rockets
4. Lakers
5. Nuggets
6. Blazers
7. Mavs
8. Pelicans
9. Spurs

This should be in the hot takes thread.

The Warriors have a system, dudes are gonna be able to plug right into it. If Curry can stay healthy the Warriors will make the playoffs.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-11-2019, 03:05 PM
I wish the Kings were in the East, but I still think they can make a jump into the playoffs. I don't know who would miss the playoffs for the Kings to get in, but I won't count them out. Really good young core and a really deep roster.

Mavs are another team that I think would make the playoffs in the East. I don't love their depth, but the Doncic and Porzingas combo is really intriguing.

I also think the Pels would have a shot in the East too. Deep, athletic roster. That's an interesting team this year.

Three Western teams that you'd have to project 9, 10, 11 in the West, but would have a really good shot at making the playoffs in the East. I'm assuming Westbrook is going to get traded, but if he doesn't add them as another non-playoff West team that would have a good shot in the East.

tredigs
07-11-2019, 03:30 PM
What did the Spurs gain? Meanwhile look at what the Cavs and Pels gained.



Reading is key
"Reading is key"

Says the guy who just said they would be a "6-9 seed" and has 9 West teams above them at the very least. Meaning you have them as a 10-15 seed.

The Spurs were a 48 win team and make it a point to make the playoffs. Much tougher to pass then younger unproven teams.

warfelg
07-11-2019, 04:53 PM
Do you think the subtraction of Butler puts the sixers ahead of the bucks?

And the addition of Horford, while the Bucks lost Brogdon.

warfelg
07-11-2019, 04:55 PM
A fully healthy Dejounte Murray who was supposed to be their starting up and coming point guard. One of the best defensive PGs in the NBA.

Another year of experience for 2 players who "broke out" and made a name for themselves in the series vs Denver. PG Derrick White and SG Bryn Forbes.

Last seasons 1st round pick Lonnie Walker who showed flashes of explosiveness got one more year of experience, and offseason to improve. He should be ready to contribute off the bench. They are a playoff team where the Pels are a fun young team who doesnt know any better. They have to learn how to play together, learn how to make the playoffs, where as the Spurs players all know this and have a better coach/system for player development.

Right, but I still have both in the playoffs. Let me break it down to my most basic thing though....I think the Pels have the best player between the two teams in Jrue.

Rivera
07-11-2019, 04:57 PM
Right, but I still have both in the playoffs. Let me break it down to my most basic thing though....I think the Pels have the best player between the two teams in Jrue.

i think thats crazy, but thats your opinion so I respect it

but you really think Jrue is better than Demarr? Cause I really dont. Demarr has proven he can be a #1 option on a consistent playoff team where Jrue has never been asked to be the #1 option and probably wont be asked to be the #1 option on this current roster.

still1ballin
07-11-2019, 05:30 PM
Let my HEAT get West before making predictions.

Best offseasons in order:

Heat
Clippers
Jazz

lol


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still1ballin
07-11-2019, 05:32 PM
Clippers did what they were expected to do. Miami built a contender with 0 cap space.

lol


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Wrigheyes4MVP
07-11-2019, 06:07 PM
So based on this you have the West as

1. Clippers
2. Jazz
3. Rockets
4. Lakers
5. Nuggets
6. Blazers
7. Mavs
8. Pelicans
9. Spurs

This should be in the hot takes thread.

The Warriors have a system, dudes are gonna be able to plug right into it. If Curry can stay healthy the Warriors will make the playoffs.

It might be a hot take, but I sort of agree that the Warriors are no lock for the playoffs in the West. Some are saying they will be a 3-6 seed, but I think they will be battling for a 7-8 seed and with their paper thin roster they could be on the outside looking in if they get hit with the injury bug. I'm not impressed with their roster. Their defense won't be close to what it was and they are paper thin in the scoring department with just Curry and D'Angelo, the latter being a pretty inefficient volume scorer. Curry, Draymond, and Kerr might be enough to get that team into the playoffs, but it will be a lower seed at best if they do get in IMO. Bottom line is, the West is really deep and that roster is filled with flaws.

It's not just that they lost Durant. Klay is out most of the season too and they lost other key players who played created that culture. Outside of Looney and Draymond, not a ton of good defenders on that team either, so we'll see if the defensive system holds up. I've always been of the belief that they were a great defensive team because they were loaded with good individual defenders who had length. They no longer have that either... to go along with the lack of scoring. I personally think Bob Meyers tried to make the best of a bad situation and he honestly did the best he could, but I can't say for sure it will be enough this upcoming season. When Klay gets healthy and if they can tweak the roster a bit, then they might look more like a contender again.

I'm not going with the hot take that the Pelicans will be better than them, but I do think the Warriors are battling just to be a 7-8 seed this year.

Alayla
07-11-2019, 06:55 PM
i think thats crazy, but thats your opinion so I respect it

but you really think Jrue is better than Demarr? Cause I really dont. Demarr has proven he can be a #1 option on a consistent playoff team where Jrue has never been asked to be the #1 option and probably wont be asked to be the #1 option on this current roster.

He was a number 1 option and allstar in philly at like 22 23

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-11-2019, 06:58 PM
This is kind of incomplete until the offseason is finished, especially with Westbrook on the market, but here we go.


Western Conference:

1) Clippers - Hard to pick against them. They have it all on both sides of the ball.
2) Lakers - Maybe they are top heavy, but I think they quietly had a solid offseason after the AD trade.
3) Jazz - They had a great offseason and move up a few spots in the tight West.
4) Rockets - A lot going on with this team so could move up or down depending on what happens next.
5) Nuggets - They won't be the 2 seed again, but overall their success was mostly sustainable.
6) Blazers - They are not far behind the 5 teams above them at least as far as the regular season is concerned.
7) Warriors - No bench, only 2 good scorers, lost a ton of their defensive length... still have Curry though.
8) Spurs - Pop + veteran stars + some better health = just enough to make the playoffs in the deep Wild West.
9) Kings - Young, deep, ascending roster. Can Luke Walton steer the ship? I have no clue.
10) Mavs - That Euro 1-2 punch makes you wanna drool. The rest of the roster, not so much.
11) Pelicans - Young, deep, athletic roster. They are a year away for me though.
12) Wolves - Good enough to compete every night, but not good enough to seriously contend for a playoff spot.
13) Grizzlies - I love the young nucleus they are building, but they are just too young this year.
14) OKC - I'm assuming Westbrook gets traded. Losing your two superstars hurts, but they got assets for a rebuild.
15) Suns - Trust the process.


Eastern Conference:

1) Bucks - I don't think losing Brogdon moves them down from the top spot especially with Kawhi now out of the East.
2) 76ers - Are they better or worse than last year? No idea, but they are here by default.
3) Celtics - Less is more for this team.
4) Raptors - I think they still have what it takes to remain competitive.
5) Pacers - Solid team that remains a solid team.
6) Nets - They've improved, but I still have them 6th. With Durant next year, they should become #1 in the East.
7) Heat - As it stands now, I have them 7th but there is a big drop off after the top 6 in the East.
8) Magic - Finished strong last year, but still lacking at PG.
9) Detroit - Blake has improved his offensive game, but this team is still lacking around him.
10) Hawks - I like the direction they are moving in. Could rise up in the rankings.
11) Wizards - I'm not feeling a bounce back here.
12) Bulls - There is some young talent here, but they have to come a long way to rise above this spot.
13) Cavs - Some young talent here too, but they have a long ways to go.
14) Knicks - Rough offseason will lead to a rough season.
15) Hornets - Kemba carried this team. He gone now.

Rivera
07-11-2019, 07:42 PM
He was a number 1 option and allstar in philly at like 22 23

That was a long time ago and quite a few injuries ago and he was a little faster/athletic

I’m not dogging Jrue but that was 7-8 years ago where Demarr was 1b on SAS just last season and 1a on the Raps 2 seasons ago

Demarrs teams have also been more successful than Jrue and Jrue had a privilege with playing what some say was a top 5 player and a no doubt top 10 player in the league

WaDe03
07-11-2019, 07:56 PM
"Reading is key"

Says the guy who just said they would be a "6-9 seed" and has 9 West teams above them at the very least. Meaning you have them as a 10-15 seed.

The Spurs were a 48 win team and make it a point to make the playoffs. Much tougher to pass then younger unproven teams.

He was drunk when he made the list.

TylerSL
07-11-2019, 07:58 PM
I think some of you guys are underestimating the Warriors, yeah they lost KD and will be without Klay for a bit, but D-Lo will be playing with something to prove and WCS will be in a perfect situation. They'll both be awesome next year.

Also this list won't be fully accurate until we find out the fate of Russell Westbrook. If he does go to Miami they would probably squeak into the top 10, whereas if he goes to the Rockets they will shoot up farther than they already are.

Top 10 currently (no Westbrook trade)
1. Los Angeles Clippers
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Philadelphia
4. Golden State
5. Houston
6. Denver
7. Milwaukee
8. Portland
9. Utah
10. Indiana

Top 10 if Westbrook goes to Heat
1. Los Angeles Clippers
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Philadelphia
4. Golden State
5. Houston
6. Denver
7. Miwaukee
8. Portland
9. Miami
10. Utah

Jamiecballer
07-11-2019, 08:07 PM
Right, but I still have both in the playoffs. Let me break it down to my most basic thing though....I think the Pels have the best player between the two teams in Jrue.Bingo

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Bostonjorge
07-11-2019, 08:20 PM
This is kind of incomplete until the offseason is finished, especially with Westbrook on the market, but here we go.


Western Conference:

1) Clippers - Hard to pick against them. They have it all on both sides of the ball.
2) Lakers - Maybe they are top heavy, but I think they quietly had a solid offseason after the AD trade.
3) Jazz - They had a great offseason and move up a few spots in the tight West.
4) Rockets - A lot going on with this team so could move up or down depending on what happens next.
5) Nuggets - They won't be the 2 seed again, but overall their success was mostly sustainable.
6) Blazers - They are not far behind the 5 teams above them at least as far as the regular season is concerned.
7) Warriors - No bench, only 2 good scorers, lost a ton of their defensive length... still have Curry though.
8) Spurs - Pop + veteran stars + some better health = just enough to make the playoffs in the deep Wild West.
9) Kings - Young, deep, ascending roster. Can Luke Walton steer the ship? I have no clue.
10) Mavs - That Euro 1-2 punch makes you wanna drool. The rest of the roster, not so much.
11) Pelicans - Young, deep, athletic roster. They are a year away for me though.
12) Wolves - Good enough to compete every night, but not good enough to seriously contend for a playoff spot.
13) Grizzlies - I love the young nucleus they are building, but they are just too young this year.
14) OKC - I'm assuming Westbrook gets traded. Losing your two superstars hurts, but they got assets for a rebuild.
15) Suns - Trust the process.


Eastern Conference:

1) Bucks - I don't think losing Brogdon moves them down from the top spot especially with Kawhi now out of the East.
2) 76ers - Are they better or worse than last year? No idea, but they are here by default.
3) Celtics - Less is more for this team.
4) Raptors - I think they still have what it takes to remain competitive.
5) Pacers - Solid team that remains a solid team.
6) Nets - They've improved, but I still have them 6th. With Durant next year, they should become #1 in the East.
7) Heat - As it stands now, I have them 7th but there is a big drop off after the top 6 in the East.
8) Magic - Finished strong last year, but still lacking at PG.
9) Detroit - Blake has improved his offensive game, but this team is still lacking around him.
10) Hawks - I like the direction they are moving in. Could rise up in the rankings.
11) Wizards - I'm not feeling a bounce back here.
12) Bulls - There is some young talent here, but they have to come a long way to rise above this spot.
13) Cavs - Some young talent here too, but they have a long ways to go.
14) Knicks - Rough offseason will lead to a rough season.
15) Hornets - Kemba carried this team. He gone now.

Good breakdown.

The West is 11 strong maybe 12 with Minnesota.

tredigs
07-11-2019, 08:43 PM
This is kind of incomplete until the offseason is finished, especially with Westbrook on the market, but here we go.


Western Conference:

1) Clippers - Hard to pick against them. They have it all on both sides of the ball.
2) Lakers - Maybe they are top heavy, but I think they quietly had a solid offseason after the AD trade.
3) Jazz - They had a great offseason and move up a few spots in the tight West.
4) Rockets - A lot going on with this team so could move up or down depending on what happens next.
5) Nuggets - They won't be the 2 seed again, but overall their success was mostly sustainable.
6) Blazers - They are not far behind the 5 teams above them at least as far as the regular season is concerned.
7) Warriors - No bench, only 2 good scorers, lost a ton of their defensive length... still have Curry though.
8) Spurs - Pop + veteran stars + some better health = just enough to make the playoffs in the deep Wild West.
9) Kings - Young, deep, ascending roster. Can Luke Walton steer the ship? I have no clue.
10) Mavs - That Euro 1-2 punch makes you wanna drool. The rest of the roster, not so much.
11) Pelicans - Young, deep, athletic roster. They are a year away for me though.
12) Wolves - Good enough to compete every night, but not good enough to seriously contend for a playoff spot.
13) Grizzlies - I love the young nucleus they are building, but they are just too young this year.
14) OKC - I'm assuming Westbrook gets traded. Losing your two superstars hurts, but they got assets for a rebuild.
15) Suns - Trust the process.


Eastern Conference:

1) Bucks - I don't think losing Brogdon moves them down from the top spot especially with Kawhi now out of the East.
2) 76ers - Are they better or worse than last year? No idea, but they are here by default.
3) Celtics - Less is more for this team.
4) Raptors - I think they still have what it takes to remain competitive.
5) Pacers - Solid team that remains a solid team.
6) Nets - They've improved, but I still have them 6th. With Durant next year, they should become #1 in the East.
7) Heat - As it stands now, I have them 7th but there is a big drop off after the top 6 in the East.
8) Magic - Finished strong last year, but still lacking at PG.
9) Detroit - Blake has improved his offensive game, but this team is still lacking around him.
10) Hawks - I like the direction they are moving in. Could rise up in the rankings.
11) Wizards - I'm not feeling a bounce back here.
12) Bulls - There is some young talent here, but they have to come a long way to rise above this spot.
13) Cavs - Some young talent here too, but they have a long ways to go.
14) Knicks - Rough offseason will lead to a rough season.
15) Hornets - Kemba carried this team. He gone now.

Tend to agree with most of these quick breakdowns and order, nice list dude.

mrblisterdundee
07-11-2019, 08:55 PM
1. Clippers
2. 76ers
3. Bucks
4. Lakers
5. Jazz
6. Rockets
7. Warriors
8. Trailblazers
9. Nuggets
10. Pacers

warfelg
07-11-2019, 08:56 PM
i think thats crazy, but thats your opinion so I respect it

but you really think Jrue is better than Demarr? Cause I really dont. Demarr has proven he can be a #1 option on a consistent playoff team where Jrue has never been asked to be the #1 option and probably wont be asked to be the #1 option on this current roster.

Offensively Jrue plays on and off ball a little better imo. Better passer. Better defender.

still1ballin
07-11-2019, 09:31 PM
Let my HEAT get West before making predictions.

Best offseasons in order:

Heat
Clippers
Jazz

Well, West is going to Houston, you can bring down the heat to the very bottom of the list now ;)


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tredigs
07-11-2019, 09:44 PM
Well, West is going to Houston, you can bring down the heat to the very bottom of the list now ;)


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With Westbrook over CP? Lol. Not sure that's an upgrade.

still1ballin
07-11-2019, 10:13 PM
With Westbrook over CP? Lol. Not sure that's an upgrade.

I was referring to the heat, since he is a heat fan putting the heat as the 3rd best team in the league llulz


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TheMightyHumph
07-11-2019, 11:01 PM
Everyone's tied at 0-0 right now

BSF101
07-11-2019, 11:02 PM
My list

1) Bucks

2) Warriors

3) Nets

4) Celtics

5) Lakers

6) 76ers

7) Trailblazers

8) Rockets

9) Jazz

10) Nuggets

WaDe03
07-11-2019, 11:08 PM
I was referring to the heat, since he is a heat fan putting the heat as the 3rd best team in the league llulz


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You must be the dude in your sig if you think I ever said they were a top 3 team in the league with Westbrook.

NBA all the way
07-11-2019, 11:12 PM
My list

1) Bucks

2) Warriors

3) Nets

4) Celtics

5) Lakers

6) 76ers

7) Trailblazers

8) Rockets

9) Jazz

10) Nuggets

No Clippers?

still1ballin
07-11-2019, 11:19 PM
You must be the dude in your sig if you think I ever said they were a top 3 team in the league with Westbrook.


With Westbrook the top 3 teams are the heat bucks and Sixers. Please make a case for anyone else above those 3.


And don’t hate on beetlejuice ;)


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Wrigheyes4MVP
07-11-2019, 11:40 PM
I have to think CP3 will be traded again. Miami keeps being brought up.

WaDe03
07-12-2019, 12:03 AM
And don’t hate on beetlejuice ;)


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That’s the east not the league!!!!

BSF101
07-12-2019, 12:35 AM
No Clippers?

You know I honestly forgot all about them. I’d put them between the Celtics and Nets.

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 01:03 AM
You know I honestly forgot all about them. I’d put them between the Celtics and Nets.

That's fair, you got the Nets that high even with KD out all season?

TylerSL
07-12-2019, 08:46 AM
So with Westbrook traded to the ROCKETS, I would say this is my top 10 and overall standings of the East and West next year.

Top 10 teams
1. Los Angeles Clippers
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Houston Rockets
4. Philadelphia 76ers
5. Denver Nuggets
6. Golden State Warriors
7. Milwaukee Bucks
8. Portland Trail Blazers
9. Utah Jazz
10. Indiana Pacers

Eastern Conference
1. Philadelphia 76ers
They basically replaced Jimmy Butler and JJ Reddick with Al Horford and Josh Richardson. Both new players will fit in extremely well, especially Horford where Philly will be able to keep one of Embiid/Horford in the game at all times. Last year Philly absolutely imploded when Embiid went to the bench and they shouldn't have that problem this year. If Simmons gets to where he will even take a jump shot it will open up his game more, which will only help him and the team. I think as of right now the 76ers are the team to beat in the East. Trust the process.

2 Milwaukee Bucks
Losing Brogdon is kind of a big deal because he's efficient and a good defender. They also didn't add anything to their team, they just lost him for tax purposes. Mirotic also walked out the door and even though he didn't have a huge role last season, that still hurts. It's still Giannis and a bunch a of shooters, but their less than they were last year, while other teams got better. The Bucks are on the clock, Giannis is under contract for two more years.

3. Indiana Pacers
This team was the third best team in the East last year before Oladipo got injured, and they will be third best team again this year. They will be very good defensively and Brogdon is an upgrade over Bogdonovic. If they can remain healthy they will be a very formidable team and could even give one of the teams above them a scare, but a second round birth is probably their ceiling.

4. Boston Celtics
Replacing Kyrie for Kemba is pretty much a wash, but the loss of Horford is what keeps them from being at the top of the conference. IMO Horford actually swings the balance in the East because if Al Horford was on this Celtics team, I'd have them as my favorites in the Eastern Conference. Sadly Al Horford walked out the door, so Boston is just among the best teams in the East, not the best. I think Kemba will have a career year in Boston. I know he gets flack for not being able to make the playoffs, but he's honestly been carrying one of the worst teams in basketball on his back for years. In Boston, he will have a real team around him and I expect Hayward will be back to All Star level and Tatum/Brown will be in a better position to succeed. Celtics still have a bright future, but they need Tatum/Brown to become stars. Sooner than later.

5. Brooklyn Nets
The Kyrie Irving Nets will be better than the D'Angelo Russell Nets and, like Kemba in Boston, Kyrie is going to have his best season ever. Still, this team will probably be missing that one piece. We all know that final piece is Kevin Durant, who is going to miss the entire season, and this year will feel like a big what if. If the Brooklyn Nets had Kevin Durant this year, they would be favorites to come out of the East. Sadly for them, KD won't step onto the court until next year so, like Boston, they will just be among the better teams in the conference.

6. Miami Heat
The addition of Jimmy Butler gives the Heat something they've lacked since Chris Bosh's career was derailed by clots, but it's not even close to enough to actually win a championship. Even if they can swing a deal to acquire Chris Paul I don't imagine it will move them past any of the teams above them, though it may widen the gap for the teams below them. Miami will be tough defensively and improved offensively with the acquisition of Jimmy Butler, and possibly CP3 as well. Miami will be good next year, better than they've been in years, but they will need a lot to go right for them to find playoff success. I'm still looking forward to it though.

7. Toronto Raptors
Losing Kawhi for nothing is an absolute killer. They will still be a good team and make the playoffs, but the Raptors are an absolute one and done with Kawhi bolting town. I expect Toronto to at least start the season with the rest of the championship roster, possibly looking to move guys like Lowry and Gasol in February. Long term I fully expect Toronto to build around the trio of Siakam/Anunoby/VanVleet. I'll say this right now, I believe Pascal Siakam is going to be an All Star next year, and I expect the Raptors in the playoffs for years to come.

8. Detroit Pistons
I think they'll just edge out Orlando for the final playoff spot in the East. Detroit is in a similar position to Miami before they got Jimmy Butler, and that's no man's land. They aren't good enough to really make any noise, but not bad enough to get a great draft pick. Blake Griffin has been a good player for the Pistons, averaging 23.4 pts/7.3 rbds/5.6 asts on .455/.359/.758 in 100 games for Detroit, but he's hurt too often and they don't have enough around him. They won't be bad, but they won't be very good either. It's just not enough.

9. Orlando Magic
This team is just destined for failure. After squeaking into the playoffs last year they brought the entire team back together. That just doesn't make any sense at all. They draft Jonathan Isaac with the #6 pick in 2017 even though they already had Aaron Gordon, who they re signed the following summer. They drafted Mo Bamba in 2018 to be their long term solution at Center with Vucevic going into the final year of his contract, but rather than trade Vucevic to a contender last year to acquire future assets and clear the way for Bamba to start they re sign him for 4 years to keep Bamba on the bench indefinitely. I just don't understand the plan in Orlando, and I don't see them getting any better than they were last year.

10. Atlanta Hawks
This is a team that will see an improvement next season. Atlanta finished 29-53 last year, 12th in the East. I see them winning around 35 games this upcoming season and will probably have one more trip to the lottery before possibly making the playoffs next year. I think long term the Hawks will be a very good team, as a young core of Trae Young, John Collins, DeAndre Hunter, and Cam Reddish is nothing to sneeze at. If you get several swings at the top of the draft you're bound to eventually strike gold, and the Hawks have acquired a pretty impressive collection of young talent. In 5 years this team could be the next Philadelphia 76ers.

11. Washington Wizards
They made the mistake of not tearing this team down a couple years ago when they couldn't win in the playoffs. There were all sorts of reports about how nobody on the team liked John Wall, and the rest of the team played better when he was on the bench. Rather than changing anything, they re sign Wall 4 years $171 million making him the most overpaid/untradeable player in basketball. The Wizards went 32-50 last year and I expect they will do about the same this year. They're not going to trade Beal, their only real asset, so he'll just be on a losing team.

12. New York Knicks
We all know about the Knicks offseason and how they got here. How they struck out on all the top free agents, how they didn't use their cap to acquire future assets from other teams by taking on bad contracts, and how they prolonged their rebuild several years by trading away Kristaps Porzingis. For better or worse the Knicks have moved on from all of it. They signed some pretty good role players in free agency, they drafted a pretty sure thing in RJ Barrett, and they have a good coach in Fizdale. They are going to be quite a bit better than they were last year, granted they have really nowhere to go but up after finishing a league worst 17-65. They have a young core who are going to have to grow, but they are still probably at least two years away from playoff contention. That is unless they don't do something catastrophic and set themselves back again. You just never know with the Knicks.

13. Chicago Bulls
Another team that's in the midst of a years long rebuild. They will probably be a little bit better than last year, but they are still a ways away. They will certainly be one of the youngest teams in the league and if they run with a starting lineup of Dunn/LeVine/OPJ/Markkanen/WCJ, Otto Porter would be the oldest player at 26. While youth may give them a bright future, young teams don't win and the 2019-20 Chicago Bulls certainly won't be winning much. In a few years maybe they'll be pretty good, but it's going to take a while.

14. Cleveland Cavaliers
They really don't have much on their roster at all and I would be shocked if Kevin Love is still on this team by opening night. For some reason the Cavs still have JR Smith on the team even though he literally stays away from the team. They are basically holding him hostage and it doesn't serve them any good to do so. Unless they get an absolute top draft pick in the next couple years, the Cleveland Cavaliers are going to remain in the basement in the lowly Eastern Conference.

15. Charlotte Hornets
This is the exact same team as last year, except replacing Kemba Walker with Terry Rozier. That's an absolutely huge downgrade and the Charlotte Hornets are going to be the worst team in the NBA next year. Last year they won 39 games, they'll be lucky to win 15 next season. They'll probably be the worst offensive team in the NBA by a large margin and they will have a middling defense at best.

Western Conference
1. Los Angeles Clippers
They'll be the best team in the NBA and the favorites to win the championship. They basically replaced Danilo Gallinari and Shai Gilgeous Alexander with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. They'll probably start Bev/Shamet/Kawhi/PG/Zubac and keep Lou Williams and Montrezl Harrell with the second unit. Basically the Clippers have two top 10 players and are SUPER deep. Their defense is going to absolutely insane and if anyone beats them it is going to be a true accomplishment. I expect them to be the best team in the NBA all year. This is the most parity we've ever seen in the NBA, but they are the absolute favorite going into the season IMO.

2. Los Angeles Lakers
I peg the Lakers as the second best team in the NBA next year. Not only did they give Lebron the second star he badly needed in Anthony Davis, they also put together a pretty solid squad around them. DeMarcus Cousins is an extremely undervalued piece, as he produced well with the Warriors coming off a big injury. I think he's going to put up a big season for the Lakers, and they really have a Big 3 of Lebron/AD/Cousins. I think bringing back Rondo was a no brainer. He's not a great shooter, but he distributes the ball well and played well with AD/Boogie in New Orleans. McGee will be a good backup center/spot starter if Boogie is hurt or needs rest, Green and Cook are going to spread the floor well, Bradley and KCP will defend the peremiter. Kuzma will get some time to shine with the second unit, and Dudley was a good signing as well. I even think the duo of Lebron and AD, two top 5 players, is better than the duo of Kawhi and Paul George, two top 10 players. I just think the Clippers have the better roster going into the season. We'll see what happens between now and May/June, but as of right now, advantage Clippers.

3. Houston Rockets
OKC fans are going to watch this season and only wonder what if. What if the Thunder never traded James Harden in 2012. Two thirds of the insane trio that was KD/Russ/Harden are back together, and it will just be insane to watch. All three of those players have won the league MVP award and while the the entire talk of the NBA will be the two teams in Los Angeles, the Rockets are going to be right there battling them for NBA supremacy. For Houston to actually win they are going to need more all time seasons out of Harden and Westbrook. Harden has finished top two in MVP voting in four of the last five seasons while Westbrook has averaged a triple double in three consecutive seasons. One thing that really helps them win now is they didn't gut the roster to acquire Westbrook. They kept Capella, Gordon, and Tucker. Guys they're going to need to beat the LA teams.

4. Denver Nuggets
They are a really good team that's knocking on the door, the problem is the West just got a whole lot tougher. Kawhi and PG teamed up in Los Angeles, Anthony Davis joined Lebron James in Los Angeles, Harden and Westbrook are together again in Houston, Utah improved, and the two teams who met in the WCF last year, Portland and Golden State, are still around as well. All this happened while Denver stood pat. While they are a young team that's already really good and getting better, it probably won't do them any good next season. They are a fantastic team that will be a better more experienced version of themselves from last year, but they just watched several teams pass them for this upcoming season. Denver should keep this team together as long as possible, they could even win a championship in the next five years, they just won't in 2019-20. It really is a Wild Wild Western Conference when the Denver Nuggets are the 4th best team in the Conference

5. Golden State Warriors
People can say what they want, but the Warriors are still going to be really good next year. After all the changes, and with Klay out, I'm not sure how good they'll be at the start of the season but by the stretch run I believe they'll be back to an elite team. After losing in the Finals and then losing KD, the Warriors are going to come back with something to prove. You know who else has something to prove? D'Angelo Russell and Willie Cauley-Stein. It's going to take Russell time to really mesh with Curry, and the dynamic will change again once Klay gets back, but Golden State is going to give D-Lo everything he needs to succeed. Cauley-Stein is an absolutely perfect fit for the Warriors. A Center who defends the paint very well, doesn't need offensive plays ran through him and is still explosive underneath the basket. To get him at that price would be a huge win for any team, let alone for the Warriors who he's the perfect center for. The Warriors as we knew them are dead, but the NBA is going to realize that Golden State is still a powerhouse when they run a lineup D-Lo/Curry/Klay/Draymond/WCS. They probably won't win the championship, but they'll make a lot of people who overlook them look foolish.

6. Portland Trail Blazers
Lillard is going to spend the rest of his days in Portland, which means he will never win the NBA Championship. He will probably go down as the greatest player to never win a championship, which is a sad but honorable feat. He'll be remembered as the Superstar who didn't form a super team in this era. The Derek Jeter of the steroid era if you will. He, alongside McCollum, will keep Portland very competitive and in the playoffs, but it will never be enough to win the championship. They'll probably even get a lot out of Hassan Whitside, who was basically lazy as hell in Miami, unless the flip him for Kevin Love (probably the better option). Portland is never really going away as long as Lillard is around.

7. Utah Jazz
They got better than they were last year, basically replacing Rubio and Favors for Conley and Bogdanovic. Conley is a much greater offensive threat than Rubio, but Rubio is the better defender and more durable, and while Bodanovic is also a better scorer than Favors, losing Favors is going to be a blow on the defensive end. The Jazz, a team who routinely started both Favors and Gobert together for years, seem to finally be conforming to the small ball era. I think the Jazz will be very good, but just being very good simply isn't enough in this insane Western Conference. They are almost certainly headed for a first round exit.

8. San Antonio Spurs
As long as they have Gregg Popovich, they are going to be a very good team. The Spurs won 48 games last year and while the West got a lot tougher this summer, one thing that nobody talks about is the return of 22 year old Dejounte Murray. For those of you who don't remember who he is, he took the starting point guard spot away from Tony Parker, which ultimately led to Parker leaving San Antonio. Murray is a very gifted defender and many people, the Spurs included, believed he was going to have a breakout season last year before tearing his ACL in the pre season. With him back, the Spurs look to have a solid starting five of Murray/DeRozan/Gay/LMA/Poetl that will keep them competitive. Two other young guys people should pay attention to are Luka Samanic and Lonnie Walker IV. Death, taxes, and Pop's Spurs making the playoffs are the three certainties in life.

9. Dallas Mavericks
Doncic and Porzingis is going to be a modern day Nash and Dirk, they're just not quite ready to ascend to the playoffs in this super conference. I believe the Mavericks finish with a winning record and be one of the most improved teams in the NBA from last year, where they won 33 games. Dallas just needs time to put more pieces around them. Luckily for the Mavericks, they've got quite a bit of time considering when the season starts Doncic will be 20 and KP will be 24. Dallas is a team on the rise.

10. New Orleans Pelicans
Speaking of a team on the rise, the Pelicans will be a fun young team featuring (age when the season starts) Zion (19), Lonzo (22), Ingram (21), Hayes (19), Alexander-Walker (20), Hart (24), Diallo (22), Favors (28), and Holiday (29). JJ Reddick (35) and E'Twaun Moore (30) are the only players older than 29 on the roster. While New Orleans has a very bright future, like the Chicago Bulls, they are too young to win. While they obviously have much more talent than the Bulls currently do, they are in a much tougher conference and it's going to lead to a similar result; which is more losses than wins. I expect 35 to 40 wins from the Pelicans, and Zion will win Rookie of the Year averaging something like 21 points, 8 rebounds.

11. Sacramento Kings
I think the Kings are set to take a small step back from last year when they won 39 games. The Kings are young and they have a keeper in De'Aaron Fox. Bagley is coming off a good rookie year and guys like Hield, Giles, and Bogdanovic have a lot of potential as well. Much like the Mavericks and Pelicans, potential isn't going to help them in 2019-20, and the loss of WCS is going to be noticeable. I figure the Kings will win between 30-35 games and never really be in the hunt for the playoffs.

12. Minnesota Timberwolves
The T-Wolves were 4-6 with Jimmy Butler, and 32-40 without him last year and I see them continuing to slide down the Western Conference standings. KAT continues to put up solid numbers, but the team is bad and Wiggins is getting worse. While they were interested in D'Angelo Russell and possibly Russell Westbrook, they didn't get either of them and have mostly stood pat this offseason. They are a team that won 36 games that didn't get any better while the top half of the conference got significantly better. Sounds like a recipe to lose more games to me.

13. Phoenix Suns
For the first time since 14-15 (5 seasons ago including this year), the Suns will not finish last or second to last in the Western Conference, they will finish third to last. I believe the addition of Ricky Rubio, plus the development of Ayton/Bridges, and the consistency of Booker will lift the Suns up one rung on the Western Conference ladder. As to how many more losing seasons Booker can take before he wants out is anyone's guess, but Phoenix still has a long way to go and I'm skeptical they'll ever get there.

14. Memphis Grizzlies
Gone are Mike Conley Jr and Marc Gasol and replaced with Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr. Maybe one day they'll be able to lead the Grizzlies to heights that their predecessors could not, but that day won't be this season. This season will see a lot of losing, more than last year. Memphis won 33 games last year with Conley as their best player, I think they'll win fewer than 25 games next year as Morant will need time to grow as a young point guard.

15. Oklahoma City Thunder
OKC has finally reached the fate they've been destined for ever since trading away James Harden to the Houston Rockets on October 27th, 2012 (2,450 days ago). That day forever changed not only the franchise, but the NBA as a whole. In the three season Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and James Harden were teammates on OKC, they only lost to the eventual NBA champions. Their first year together, 2009-10, they were the #8 seed in the West and played the Kobe/Gasol Lakers in a tough 6 game first round series. The Lakers went on to beat the Celtics in the Finals. In 2010-11, they finished as the #4 seed in the West and made it all the way to the Western Conference Finals where they lost to the Dallas Mavericks. The Mavericks went on to defeat the Miami Heat in the Finals. In 2011-12, they finished as the #2 seed in the West and went on to lose in the Finals to the Miami Heat. At the time of the Harden trade, KD was 24 while Harden and Westbrook were both 23. Had OKC never made that trade, KD would have never went to Golden State because the Thunder probably would have won the championship before Golden State ascended onto the scene in 2015. We would have seen the trio of KD/Harden/Russ directly compete against the trio of Steph/Klay/Draymond for Western Supremacy from 2015-today. Alas they did trade James Harden, and the duo of KD/Russ wasn't enough to beat the Warriors so KD left to Golden State, and OKC paired Paul George with Russ to delay the departure of the last piece of a would be dynasty. However PG got "buyer's remorse" and was probably easily convinced to join Kawhi in his hometown Los Angeles, clearing the way for Westbrook to get traded as well. Now the Thunder are without all three of the superstar trio of a lifetime. Yes they did get a combined seven 1st round draft picks and four pick swaps for Paul George and Russell Westbrook, but what are the odds that all those picks turn into anything close to a trio of KD/Harden/Russ? That's a top 20 player all time (KD), the greatest scorer since Michael Jordan (Harden), and one of only two players ever to average a triple double in a single season, and he's done it three years in a row (Russ). We'll never see a trio like those three drafted to one team again, and we'll always wonder what if the Thunder never traded James Harden. Just like we all wonder what would have happened if Portland drafted Michael Jordan over Sam Bowie.

cheetos185
07-12-2019, 09:03 AM
I would say don't underestimate the warriors yet wait and see curry and dlo first who knows they might be best duos in west.

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TylerSL
07-12-2019, 09:21 AM
I would say don't underestimate the warriors yet wait and see curry and dlo first who knows they might be best duos in west.

Sent from my BND-L34 using Tapatalk

Where the Knicks really called a first class franchise in a Woj tweet?

TrueFan420
07-12-2019, 10:08 AM
I think they're a 6-9 seed in the west this year. I just think they lost too much and didn't replace it.

You’re list puts them no higher than 10. They did lost KD and Iggy and Klay will miss a lot of the year so I understand thinking they won’t be top 4 especially when the west is what it is but that’s a hot take. We added DLO and WCS. We have young guards that have flashed talent. Warriors 100% will make the playoffs.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-12-2019, 10:29 AM
What is the Warriors starting lineup going to be? For all of you who are picking the Warriors to finish ahead of teams like Portland, Denver, or Utah... you should look at the Warriors entire roster and their lineup. I'm sorry, they aren't better than those teams.

PG - Curry
SG - D-Lo
SF - Mckinnie???
PF - Draymond
C - Looney or Cauley-Stein

Bench: Looney or Cauley-Stein, Alec Burks, Glenn Robinson, Poole, etc.


I respect Golden State and what they've accomplished, but that lineup isn't competitive with teams like Portland, Denver, Utah, etc. Curry is going to have to carry this team and be unanimous MVP for this team to be a top 5 seed in the West.

Rivera
07-12-2019, 10:41 AM
8) Magic - Finished strong last year, but still lacking at PG.


hey Hey HEY!!!!! Dont disrespect the man who pretty much single handedly won a playoff game for us! the GREAT DJ Augustin! And we have the next big thing at PG! You dont remember how great Markelle Fultz was supposed to be! Hes around somewhere (though my magic have no idea when he's going to play again :laugh2: )

MygirlhatesCod
07-12-2019, 10:45 AM
What is the Warriors starting lineup going to be? For all of you who are picking the Warriors to finish ahead of teams like Portland, Denver, or Utah... you should look at the Warriors entire roster and their lineup. I'm sorry, they aren't better than those teams.

PG - Curry
SG - D-Lo
SF - Mckinnie???
PF - Draymond
C - Looney or Cauley-Stein

Bench: Looney or Cauley-Stein, Alec Burks, Glenn Robinson, Poole, etc.


I respect Golden State and what they've accomplished, but that lineup isn't competitive with teams like Portland, Denver, Utah, etc. Curry is going to have to carry this team and be unanimous MVP for this team to be a top 5 seed in the West.

There is also a 17 mil trade exception that will be available to use now or when Klay comes back (projected around Christmas). They will be competitive.

tredigs
07-12-2019, 10:51 AM
What is the Warriors starting lineup going to be? For all of you who are picking the Warriors to finish ahead of teams like Portland, Denver, or Utah... you should look at the Warriors entire roster and their lineup. I'm sorry, they aren't better than those teams.

PG - Curry
SG - D-Lo
SF - Mckinnie???
PF - Draymond
C - Looney or Cauley-Stein

Bench: Looney or Cauley-Stein, Alec Burks, Glenn Robinson, Poole, etc.


I respect Golden State and what they've accomplished, but that lineup isn't competitive with teams like Portland, Denver, Utah, etc. Curry is going to have to carry this team and be unanimous MVP for this team to be a top 5 seed in the West.

Depends how early Klay comes back (the posted 5 to 7 months average recovery after surgery puts him late November to early February), and whether or not they trade Russell (and obviously even for who). But if Draymond tries (I think he will since he knows they need it and it's a contract year), that's still a VERY strong top 3. The SF rotation, defense and bench are massive issues which will keep them from the top of the West, but they will still likely float a bit above .500 until Klay gets back and should finish 15 or so games above .500. By the playoffs (depending on a trade), they're still going to be hell for every team to beat.

**** though that bench really is going to cost them a good handful of games in the first few months :laugh:. It's one of the worst I've seen in a while.

tredigs
07-12-2019, 10:52 AM
There is also a 17 mil trade exception that will be available to use now or when Klay comes back (projected around Christmas). They will be competitive.

Can you expand on this or link?

Edit: I see that's the exception from the Iggy trade and they have only 1 year to use it. What that means is they can get a potentially MASSIVE haul for Russell when the time comes (they can effectively take on >45 million in salary him). Although, does this mean the hard cap only lasts through December 15th?

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 11:26 AM
There is also a 17 mil trade exception that will be available to use now or when Klay comes back (projected around Christmas). They will be competitive.

Being rubbed up right against the hard cap, that is useless for this season.

BSF101
07-12-2019, 11:33 AM
That's fair, you got the Nets that high even with KD out all season?
For now yeah I think Kyrie and Jordan will find a way to carry them to a decent record.

tredigs
07-12-2019, 12:14 PM
Being rubbed up right against the hard cap, that is useless for this season.

Ah so the hard cap does retain through the whole year? I wonder if it means they can still use it at the beginning of next free agency if so. I do know its only for 1 year though.

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 12:16 PM
What is the Warriors starting lineup going to be? For all of you who are picking the Warriors to finish ahead of teams like Portland, Denver, or Utah... you should look at the Warriors entire roster and their lineup. I'm sorry, they aren't better than those teams.

PG - Curry
SG - D-Lo
SF - Mckinnie???
PF - Draymond
C - Looney or Cauley-Stein

Bench: Looney or Cauley-Stein, Alec Burks, Glenn Robinson, Poole, etc.


I respect Golden State and what they've accomplished, but that lineup isn't competitive with teams like Portland, Denver, Utah, etc. Curry is going to have to carry this team and be unanimous MVP for this team to be a top 5 seed in the West.
I think the cool thing about teams with systems is the individual talent isn't quite as important. It matters to be sure, it's a talent league but systems can hide that some.

I personally feel like Poole, Burks, Spellman and WCS fit into Kerr's system flawlessly. Robinson 3 and D-Lo are very athletic dudes who should find their way. Smailagić played for the Santa Cruz Warriors last season, he already knows the system.

You then have carryovers of Looney, McKinnie and Evans who should be just fine.

None of those guys are world beaters but the system will help them all. Kerr has no issue going 12 deep.

Steph and Dray will do the heavy lifting but I really feel like the Warriors are gonna shock people with their regular season win total.

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 12:19 PM
Ah so the hard cap does retain through the whole year? I wonder if it means they can still use it at the beginning of next free agency if so. I do know its only for 1 year though.

Yup they're hard capped at $138 million for the entire 2019-20 season, no matter what. That TPE doesn't expire until 7/7/2020 though, so it can come into play next summer potentially, once they aren't hard capped anymore.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-12-2019, 12:28 PM
Depends how early Klay comes back (the posted 5 to 7 months average recovery after surgery puts him late November to early February), and whether or not they trade Russell (and obviously even for who). But if Draymond tries (I think he will since he knows they need it and it's a contract year), that's still a VERY strong top 3. The SF rotation, defense and bench are massive issues which will keep them from the top of the West, but they will still likely float a bit above .500 until Klay gets back and should finish 15 or so games above .500. By the playoffs (depending on a trade), they're still going to be hell for every team to beat.

**** though that bench really is going to cost them a good handful of games in the first few months :laugh:. It's one of the worst I've seen in a while.

Do you think they'll really try to get Klay back on the early side of that time frame? I personally think it makes sense for them to be very cautious with Klay and not rush him back in any way, shape or form. They need to prioritize his long term health and I think that's exactly what they'll do.

Klay's long term health >>>>> trying to make the playoffs/improve their seeding this year.

I don't think he'll come back before February, and that's a long time to go with that thin, flawed roster. It also goes without saying that any sort of impactful injury would be devastating for this team with their lack of depth. Seriously, if Curry has to miss any games, they are in trouble. This is a very deep conference and most of those other Western teams are very deep and talented top to bottom. The Warriors will be competing with a huge handicap up through at least February IMO. The injury to Klay would be big no matter what, but given the state of their roster, it's a killer IMO.

Forget about the fact that they used to be an all-star team. They also used to be flush with long, athletic individual defenders and/or shooters who could space the floor. Or at least they had savvy vets like Iggy and Livingston. Right now, they lack in all those departments and they are as top heavy a team as I've ever seen. I really think that Curry in particular is gonna have to carry this team on his back on a nightly basis. He's a solid bet for MVP because of it, if his body holds up.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-12-2019, 12:43 PM
I think the cool thing about teams with systems is the individual talent isn't quite as important. It matters to be sure, it's a talent league but systems can hide that some.

I personally feel like Poole, Burks, Spellman and WCS fit into Kerr's system flawlessly. Robinson 3 and D-Lo are very athletic dudes who should find their way. Smailagić played for the Santa Cruz Warriors last season, he already knows the system.

You then have carryovers of Looney, McKinnie and Evans who should be just fine.

None of those guys are world beaters but the system will help them all. Kerr has no issue going 12 deep.

Steph and Dray will do the heavy lifting but I really feel like the Warriors are gonna shock people with their regular season win total.

I'm lower than them than most, but I still have them projected for the #7 seed, which probably will put them at around 45 wins or so. So I mostly agree that they'll be competitive. That's only if they don't get hit with the injury bug though. Any sort of prominent injury will kill them.

My point is, to put them ahead of any of the proven, top contenders in the West, seems really far fetched to me. I can't rationally rank them ahead of teams like Portland, Denver, and Utah. Those are proven teams with deep rosters while the Warriors are going to be filled with replacement level players, not just on their bench but even leaking into their starting 5. And I don't agree that those players you mentioned will fit into Kerr's system flawlessly btw, but that's another discussion.

Having a great system is nice, but it can only get you so far. You still need talent at the end of the day.

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 01:27 PM
I'm lower than them than most, but I still have them projected for the #7 seed, which probably will put them at around 45 wins or so. So I mostly agree that they'll be competitive. That's only if they don't get hit with the injury bug though. Any sort of prominent injury will kill them.

My point is, to put them ahead of any of the proven, top contenders in the West, seems really far fetched to me. I can't rationally rank them ahead of teams like Portland, Denver, and Utah. Those are proven teams with deep rosters while the Warriors are going to be filled with replacement level players, not just on their bench but even leaking into their starting 5. And I don't agree that those players you mentioned will fit into Kerr's system flawlessly btw, but that's another discussion.

Having a great system is nice, but it can only get you so far. You still need talent at the end of the day.
I think it fits into the same conversation, I think the Lakers won't have an exceptional overall regular season win total. Even though I believe they're one of the most talented teams in the league. I think it'll be trying to build some chemistry, stay healthy and manage the work load. It's obviously easier to do in the East than the West but I think this will most likely be their approach.

smith&wesson
07-12-2019, 01:42 PM
Rockets
Clippers
Lakers

Everyon else is on the same tier 76ers, Bucks, Jazz, Blazers, Warriors, Nuggets, Pacers

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-12-2019, 01:49 PM
I'm not a Westbrook fan. I don't think the Rockets are that much better, if at all. They are far more interesting though.

MygirlhatesCod
07-12-2019, 02:37 PM
Being rubbed up right against the hard cap, that is useless for this season.

Because the NBA's salary cap is a soft one, the CBA allows for several important scenarios in which a team can sign players even if their payroll exceeds the cap. trade exception being one of those.

is there something else that I'm not aware of? they have a year to use it, not a year then use it. honest question btw not trying to be a dick.

IndyRealist
07-12-2019, 02:53 PM
Because the NBA's salary cap is a soft one, the CBA allows for several important scenarios in which a team can sign players even if their payroll exceeds the cap. trade exception being one of those.

is there something else that I'm not aware of? they have a year to use it, not a year then use it. honest question btw not trying to be a dick.

They're not talking about the salary cap. They're talking about the "apron" above the tax line.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

MygirlhatesCod
07-12-2019, 03:20 PM
They're not talking about the salary cap. They're talking about the "apron" above the tax line.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

they are 6 mil below the apron currently, which means that it can still be used. The rule states that the exception is not useable if the team is over, not if using the exception puts them over. am I understanding that correctly?

tredigs
07-12-2019, 04:09 PM
Do you think they'll really try to get Klay back on the early side of that time frame? I personally think it makes sense for them to be very cautious with Klay and not rush him back in any way, shape or form. They need to prioritize his long term health and I think that's exactly what they'll do.

Klay's long term health >>>>> trying to make the playoffs/improve their seeding this year.

I don't think he'll come back before February, and that's a long time to go with that thin, flawed roster. It also goes without saying that any sort of impactful injury would be devastating for this team with their lack of depth. Seriously, if Curry has to miss any games, they are in trouble. This is a very deep conference and most of those other Western teams are very deep and talented top to bottom. The Warriors will be competing with a huge handicap up through at least February IMO. The injury to Klay would be big no matter what, but given the state of their roster, it's a killer IMO.

Forget about the fact that they used to be an all-star team. They also used to be flush with long, athletic individual defenders and/or shooters who could space the floor. Or at least they had savvy vets like Iggy and Livingston. Right now, they lack in all those departments and they are as top heavy a team as I've ever seen. I really think that Curry in particular is gonna have to carry this team on his back on a nightly basis. He's a solid bet for MVP because of it, if his body holds up.

I essentially agree with all of this, particularly if Curry or Draymond miss time, but if they're fortunate health wise those two plus Russell are simply too potent not to win a slight majority of their games. We saw a semblance of it in the NBA Finals (with Iggy but not Russell, who is the better player at this stage), and they were battling tight with the eventual champ. I do think they will surprise you a bit.

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 06:25 PM
they are 6 mil below the apron currently, which means that it can still be used. The rule states that the exception is not useable if the team is over, not if using the exception puts them over. am I understanding that correctly?


Because the NBA's salary cap is a soft one, the CBA allows for several important scenarios in which a team can sign players even if their payroll exceeds the cap. trade exception being one of those.

is there something else that I'm not aware of? they have a year to use it, not a year then use it. honest question btw not trying to be a dick.

Yeah, np man.

The NBA is a soft cap... Mostly.

There are 4 numbers to know when it comes to NBA cap numbers. For the 2019-20 season the NBA salary cap is $109.14 million (the soft cap you were speaking to), $132.627 million is the tax level, $138.928 million is the apron (aka hard cap) and we won't speak to it here but the salary cap floor is $98.226 million.

So, to start with your point of the CBA allowing teams to exceed the cap. Those only apply to the soft cap. Teams can use salary cap exceptions to exceed $109.14 million for the 2019-20 NBA season.

If we look at what IndyRealist posted, we look at the 3 ways a team can get hard capped in the NBA. 1. Using the bi-annual exception 2. Receives a player who is signed then traded 3. Uses MLE to sign a player to a larger cap than the tax-payer MLE. 1 and 3 don't matter to us for this instance.

We hone in on number 2, which states a NBA team becomes hard capped at the apron, if they receive a player via sign & trade. We know that the Warriors received DeAngelo Russell via sign and trade from the Nets, that being the case they're now hard capped at $138.928 million until June 30th 2020.

That being the case, the CBA states "If a team is hard-capped, it cannot exceed the Apron under any circumstance. If the team subsequently needs to sign a player (for example, to replace injured players) it must first create room under the Apron by waiving player(s) with non-guaranteed salary, waiving player(s) with guaranteed salary and utilizing the stretch provision, trading downward in salary, etc. A team that is hard-capped can sign players to non-guaranteed contracts for training camp or the regular season, but must rid themselves of such players before their salary would take the team above the Apron. A team subject to the hard cap can also sign players to Rest-of-Season contracts during the season, as long as the salary pro-ration keeps the team below the Apron."

With all that information, that $17 million TPE is useless until next summer, once the Warriors are no longer hard-capped.

As far as the Warriors being $6 million below the apron, that's not true. They're at $136,952,634 in guaranteed salary for the 2019-20 season, not counting McKinnie's $1,588,231 non-guaranteed salary. If you include that, the Warriors salary is $138,540,865, just a smidge under the NBA apron aka hard cap of $138,928,000.

warfelg
07-12-2019, 06:52 PM
they are 6 mil below the apron currently, which means that it can still be used. The rule states that the exception is not useable if the team is over, not if using the exception puts them over. am I understanding that correctly?

Not with the signing of Herro.

IndyRealist
07-12-2019, 06:58 PM
Wait, people read the links I post?

MygirlhatesCod
07-12-2019, 07:26 PM
Wait, people read the links I post?

It’s a fluke

MygirlhatesCod
07-12-2019, 07:28 PM
Yeah, np man.

The NBA is a soft cap... Mostly.

There are 4 numbers to know when it comes to NBA cap numbers. For the 2019-20 season the NBA salary cap is $109.14 million (the soft cap you were speaking to), $132.627 million is the tax level, $138.928 million is the apron (aka hard cap) and we won't speak to it here but the salary cap floor is $98.226 million.

So, to start with your point of the CBA allowing teams to exceed the cap. Those only apply to the soft cap. Teams can use salary cap exceptions to exceed $109.14 million for the 2019-20 NBA season.

If we look at what IndyRealist posted, we look at the 3 ways a team can get hard capped in the NBA. 1. Using the bi-annual exception 2. Receives a player who is signed then traded 3. Uses MLE to sign a player to a larger cap than the tax-payer MLE. 1 and 3 don't matter to us for this instance.

We hone in on number 2, which states a NBA team becomes hard capped at the apron, if they receive a player via sign & trade. We know that the Warriors received DeAngelo Russell via sign and trade from the Nets, that being the case they're now hard capped at $138.928 million until June 30th 2020.

That being the case, the CBA states "If a team is hard-capped, it cannot exceed the Apron under any circumstance. If the team subsequently needs to sign a player (for example, to replace injured players) it must first create room under the Apron by waiving player(s) with non-guaranteed salary, waiving player(s) with guaranteed salary and utilizing the stretch provision, trading downward in salary, etc. A team that is hard-capped can sign players to non-guaranteed contracts for training camp or the regular season, but must rid themselves of such players before their salary would take the team above the Apron. A team subject to the hard cap can also sign players to Rest-of-Season contracts during the season, as long as the salary pro-ration keeps the team below the Apron."

With all that information, that $17 million TPE is useless until next summer, once the Warriors are no longer hard-capped.

As far as the Warriors being $6 million below the apron, that's not true. They're at $136,952,634 in guaranteed salary for the 2019-20 season, not counting McKinnie's $1,588,231 non-guaranteed salary. If you include that, the Warriors salary is $138,540,865, just a smidge under the NBA apron aka hard cap of $138,928,000.

Ok I didn’t catch the s&t part....well ****!
I guess either way it’s a hold dlo till that date and then that opens up room for a max player to trade for.

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 08:21 PM
Ok I didn’t catch the s&t part....well ****!
I guess either way it’s a hold dlo till that date and then that opens up room for a max player to trade for.

DLo can be traded January 15th but it won't change the Warriors hard cap situation.

crewfan13
07-12-2019, 08:27 PM
I essentially agree with all of this, particularly if Curry or Draymond miss time, but if they're fortunate health wise those two plus Russell are simply too potent not to win a slight majority of their games. We saw a semblance of it in the NBA Finals (with Iggy but not Russell, who is the better player at this stage), and they were battling tight with the eventual champ. I do think they will surprise you a bit.

I think it's easy to look at all the guys they've lost and say they have to be bad. But realistically, they were just that talented.

I mean, when they step on the floor, they'll have 3 of the best 5 players in the game against most teams. I gst the depth sucks, but having the most top end talent usually results in wins.

MygirlhatesCod
07-12-2019, 09:37 PM
DLo can be traded January 15th but it won't change the Warriors hard cap situation.

I meant hold dlo till the end of next June and pair him with the exception for a 45 mil player next offseason

NBA all the way
07-12-2019, 10:45 PM
I meant hold dlo till the end of next June and pair him with the exception for a 45 mil player next offseason

TPE's can't be paired with any other salary.

Scoots
07-13-2019, 12:55 AM
I meant hold dlo till the end of next June and pair him with the exception for a 45 mil player next offseason

They are trying to figure out how to get Giannis in 2 years.

MygirlhatesCod
07-13-2019, 08:07 AM
TPE's can't be paired with any other salary.

I just seen that too. I guess it would be used on a player to then pair with DLo. thanks for the knowledge.

NBA all the way
07-13-2019, 09:04 AM
I just seen that too. I guess it would be used on a player to then pair with DLo. thanks for the knowledge.

You're welcome, glad to help.