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More-Than-Most
07-01-2019, 03:05 AM
Clippers or Knicks? Both teams treated this free agency like the end all be all and right now its been a massive bust for both teams... If KL goes to the lakers which team had the biggest free agency bust? Nets loaded up and so did the lakers... Clippers/knicks are on the outside looking in

AI
07-01-2019, 03:36 AM
Probably the Clippers. Knicks are already at rock bottom, can only go up from here.

Heediot
07-01-2019, 04:54 AM
Lakers, when Kawhi re-ups with Toronto. Clippers can save cap for next year and continue with the rebuild. Kawhi might be available again next summer (1 + 1). I think that's what he ends up doing with Toronto.

Cal827
07-01-2019, 06:55 AM
The Clippers if they can't get Kawhi. As AI said, the Knicks are already at rock bottom. They also have a pretty deep core of prospects in their system in Knox, Barrett, Ntilikina (Might be a bust but he's only 20), Smith Jr, and a fairly young guy in Randle (who could be a big trade asset too). Clippers have Zubac and Alexander as their future pieces. In addition, the Clippers roster is good enough to be a lower playoff team or just on the outside, which kinda stinks in this league. The Knicks are probably gonna be a bad team thanks to their terrifying division/inexperience, so that probably means another high pick to add to it.

TylerSL
07-01-2019, 06:59 AM
Clippers or Knicks? Both teams treated this free agency like the end all be all and right now its been a massive bust for both teams... If KL goes to the lakers which team had the biggest free agency bust? Nets loaded up and so did the lakers... Clippers/knicks are on the outside looking in

It all depends on Kawhi. I'll lay out the three ways the Kawhi situation could go and who would feel the worst in all three.

1. Kawhi stays in Toronto
If Kawhi stays in Toronto, the team feeling the worst will be the Knicks, followed by the Lakers, then the Clippers. Even though both LA teams are putting all their chips into the Kawhi bucket and without him the offseason would be failure, the Knicks just watched the two guys they were going after sign with a team that plays 5 miles away. Last night's free agency was a complete and total rebuke of the Knicks. The Lakers have watched all their fall back options come off the board so it's basically Kawhi or nothing. Even though it would be disasterous for the Lakers if they don't get Kawhi, at least they wouldn't be losing him to the other LA team, ditto for the Clippers.

2. Kawhi signs with the Clippers
If Kawhi joins the Los Angeles Clippers, the team feeling the worst would be the Lakers, followed by the Knicks in a close second. The Knicks watched the two guys they wanted decide to play 5 miles away, but Kawhi would be playing in the same building as the Lakers and still not be a Laker. They just missed out on every fallback option they might have had and they have nothing left to trade. If Kawhi goes to the Clippers they will be forced to fill out their roster on one year deals and hope to do something next summer. Potential targets would be Boogie, Danny Green, Marcus Morris, Isaiah Thomas, Kevon Looney, Trae Burke, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, and Vince Carter. That's what's left.

3. Kawhi signs with the Lakers
If Kawhi joins the Los Angeles Lakers and creates the Big 3 of all Big 3's, the team feeling the worst is the Clippers with the Knicks in a distant second. If Kawhi goes to the Lakers it will absolutely obliterate the Clippers franchise. The Clippers have been in full blown pursuit of him for over a year so to lose him to the Lakers at the last second, when the Lakers had basically no way of getting him until a few days ago would just be soul crushing. The Clippers have always been under the Lakers shadow never having success while the Lakers won title after title after title after title. All the Clippers have to do is look up at the Laker banners on their own home floor and know they don't belong. Even in the last 8 seasons, where the Clippers have 7 playoff appearances and 3 trips to the second round to the Lakers 0 playoff trips, they haven't been able to overcome the shadow of the Lakers. Getting Kawhi, and winning with him, is the only way they can overcome that. If instead he joins the team they are trying to get out from underneath with basically no other free agent left. It would be worse than wasting a year chasing Kawhi for the Clippers, it would be utter hopelessness.

Heediot
07-01-2019, 07:49 AM
I don't see too much gloom for the Clippers as y'all do. Team has no bad contracts and has flexibility (going forward) still even if they lose out on KL. They'll still have 2 max spaces next summer. Just use the cap this year to acquire assets and absorb contracts.

Lakers pretty much need to get Kawhi or their cap space acquired loses value. They won;t have enough for a max next off-season and LeBron gets another year older. Not sure who's left for them to take up the cap. Maybe they can get someone(s) via trade with the cap.

TylerSL
07-01-2019, 08:05 AM
I don't see too much gloom for the Clippers as y'all do. Team has no bad contracts and has flexibility (going forward) still even if they lose out on KL. They'll still have 2 max spaces next summer. Just use the cap this year to acquire assets and absorb contracts.

Lakers pretty much need to get Kawhi or their cap space acquired loses value. They won;t have enough for a max next off-season and LeBron gets another year older. Not sure who's left for them to take up the cap. Maybe they can get someone(s) via trade with the cap.

If the Lakers get Kawhi, the Clippers are never winning the championship, and they'll watch the Lakers win a few more. If LAC is ever going to become something, Kawhi can't become a Laker.

Heediot
07-01-2019, 08:11 AM
If the Lakers get Kawhi, the Clippers are never winning the championship, and they'll watch the Lakers win a few more. If LAC is ever going to become something, Kawhi can't become a Laker.

None of them getting Kawhi this year, so my point remains :p:

LeonFSU
07-01-2019, 10:46 AM
I think the Knicks have made more regrettable decisions so far. Both teams traded players who ended up signing max deals for the chance to sign better players. Neither the Knicks nor the Clippers signed anyone better than Porzingis or Harris, respectively. But the Knicks gave big multiyear deals to Gibson, Portis and Bullock. Clippers haven't made any decisions as dumb as those yet (and I doubt they will).

Jamiecballer
07-01-2019, 11:00 AM
Clippers or Knicks? Both teams treated this free agency like the end all be all and right now its been a massive bust for both teams... If KL goes to the lakers which team had the biggest free agency bust? Nets loaded up and so did the lakers... Clippers/knicks are on the outside looking inI dont think there is any reason to have this conversation, Leonard to Clippers would still not be surprising

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smith&wesson
07-01-2019, 11:23 AM
I don't see too much gloom for the Clippers as y'all do. Team has no bad contracts and has flexibility (going forward) still even if they lose out on KL. They'll still have 2 max spaces next summer. Just use the cap this year to acquire assets and absorb contracts.

Lakers pretty much need to get Kawhi or their cap space acquired loses value. They won;t have enough for a max next off-season and LeBron gets another year older. Not sure who's left for them to take up the cap. Maybe they can get someone(s) via trade with the cap.

The only bright spot on their roster is SGA. Everyone else is a supporting piece. They banked way to hard on free agency only to strike out. The Clippers literally have nothing to offer that the the Lakers donít. The only thing they have over Toronto is that they are in LA. They thought they could sell cap space and the ability to pair Kawhi up with another star. Whoís that 2nd star now ? I just donít see them as having any chance. Maybe next year though.

smith&wesson
07-01-2019, 11:28 AM
I dont think there is any reason to have this conversation, Leonard to Clippers would still not be surprising

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Iíd be a bit surprised by it. I get he could go there and be the man but heís said over and over that he doesnít care about that and just wants to be with the best team. I donít think the Clippers offer that. The most complete team would be the Raptors and the most talented team would be the Lakers. The Clippers options on pairing Leonard up with another star in this free agency dried up over night.

smith&wesson
07-01-2019, 11:33 AM
Clippers or Knicks? Both teams treated this free agency like the end all be all and right now its been a massive bust for both teams... If KL goes to the lakers which team had the biggest free agency bust? Nets loaded up and so did the lakers... Clippers/knicks are on the outside looking in

I think Iíd be more hopeful with a young talent like RJ Barrett and even Knox. But I also really like SGA on the Clippers. I think if youíre banking on free agency to save your team your screwed more often than not either way.

Jamiecballer
07-01-2019, 11:47 AM
The only bright spot on their roster is SGA. Everyone else is a supporting piece. They banked way to hard on free agency only to strike out. The Clippers literally have nothing to offer that the the Lakers donít. The only thing they have over Toronto is that they are in LA. They thought they could sell cap space and the ability to pair Kawhi up with another star. Whoís that 2nd star now ? I just donít see them as having any chance. Maybe next year though.That not true at all. They've got a great front office, a respected coach and a roster that is a perfect fit for the type of player Kawhi has become.

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Jamiecballer
07-01-2019, 11:52 AM
Iíd be a bit surprised by it. I get he could go there and be the man but heís said over and over that he doesnít care about that and just wants to be with the best team. I donít think the Clippers offer that. The most complete team would be the Raptors and the most talented team would be the Lakers. The Clippers options on pairing Leonard up with another star in this free agency dried up over night.Sure, but he also wants to get into the GOAT territory and he won't get it in LAL. Kawhi just wants to win in the same way that Kobe and MJ did. That doesnt mean he will sell his potential short in pursuit of it.

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smith&wesson
07-01-2019, 12:08 PM
Sure, but he also wants to get into the GOAT territory and he won't get it in LAL. Kawhi just wants to win in the same way that Kobe and MJ did. That doesnt mean he will sell his potential short in pursuit of it.

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Kawhi has already won two ships as the man. He doesnít have anything to prove. If he wins another x amount of rings with the Lakers no one will ever exclude him from the the greatest of all time listís. For example no one leaves Magic off that lost just because he played with Kareem or Worthy. No one excluded Kareem off the list because he played with Magic.

Same could be said about James. No ones going to leave him off that list just because he went to play with Wade & Bosh and then again to play with Kyrie & Love and then again with AD & whoever. He will still go down as an all time top player.

Kevin Durant, as much as it pains me to say will still be considered one of the greatest even though he went and joined a championship team that was breaking records with out him.

Great players are not discredited in history based on who they played with or the road they took to their ships. Your top 10 list likely includes names like MJ, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Lebron, Bird, Oscar, Duncan etc etc and thatís regardless of who they played with.

smith&wesson
07-01-2019, 12:30 PM
That not true at all. They've got a great front office, a respected coach and a roster that is a perfect fit for the type of player Kawhi has become.

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I was talking about the make up of their roster, how is it any better than what he currently has in Toronto? Talent wise how is it any better than what the Lakers would have with KL,LBJ,AD & Kuzma? They could literally sign you and me as supporting pieces and still be more talented then 95% of the league.

Their front office ? I prefer ours by a long shot. Jerry West is very old and is no guarantee to even be there next year. What has their front office done to speak of so highly ? They made Rivers a gm which was a terrible move. Now itís Lawrence Frank and Michael Winger. And their biggest moves have yet to be made. Nothing to rave about. But Masai and Bobby Webster have done a masterful job. I look at the most recent work of both front offices and itís really difficult to put theirs ahead of ours in anyway really.

crewfan13
07-01-2019, 04:35 PM
Kawhi has already won two ships as the man. He doesnít have anything to prove. If he wins another x amount of rings with the Lakers no one will ever exclude him from the the greatest of all time listís. For example no one leaves Magic off that lost just because he played with Kareem or Worthy. No one excluded Kareem off the list because he played with Magic.

Same could be said about James. No ones going to leave him off that list just because he went to play with Wade & Bosh and then again to play with Kyrie & Love and then again with AD & whoever. He will still go down as an all time top player.

Kevin Durant, as much as it pains me to say will still be considered one of the greatest even though he went and joined a championship team that was breaking records with out him.

Great players are not discredited in history based on who they played with or the road they took to their ships. Your top 10 list likely includes names like MJ, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Lebron, Bird, Oscar, Duncan etc etc and thatís regardless of who they played with.

I agree with what you are saying, but why does everyone seem to give kawhi credit as "the man" in his first championship? He was the 3rd leading scorer in the regular season for that team. He won the MVP, and I'm not saying he was undeserving, but it really was a team effort. Kawhi averaged 18/6/2 with a steal and a half and a block per game. Parker was 18/5, Duncan was 15/10, Manu was 14/3/4.

He had the best finals but it was a team effort and he wasnt really their best guy in the regular season. His mvp was closer to iggys mvp than it was to any of the peak lebrons or anyone like that. Not trying to rag on him as a player, but winning two as the man so far seems a bit far. He was undisputedly the best player this playoffs and maybe could have upset GS as the best player in San Antonio prior to his injury, but that first SA championship was a pretty balanced performance for that team.

crewfan13
07-01-2019, 04:39 PM
To me, the knicks are the losers. I think LAC got decent value for an expiring Harris. It really felt like the crux of the porzingas deal was the cap space and they got nothing out of it. If they would have shopped porzingas otherwise, I think they could have gotten more and actually gotten decent value.

Plus while the clips had high hopes they've always realistically been the second fiddle in their city. The knicks, while not better than the nets lately, have been new Yorks team. While that may not change entirely, having the second fiddle team in your city bring in the exact two free agents you wanted has got to hurt.

smith&wesson
07-01-2019, 05:10 PM
I agree with what you are saying, but why does everyone seem to give kawhi credit as "the man" in his first championship? He was the 3rd leading scorer in the regular season for that team. He won the MVP, and I'm not saying he was undeserving, but it really was a team effort. Kawhi averaged 18/6/2 with a steal and a half and a block per game. Parker was 18/5, Duncan was 15/10, Manu was 14/3/4.

He had the best finals but it was a team effort and he wasnt really their best guy in the regular season. His mvp was closer to iggys mvp than it was to any of the peak lebrons or anyone like that. Not trying to rag on him as a player, but winning two as the man so far seems a bit far. He was undisputedly the best player this playoffs and maybe could have upset GS as the best player in San Antonio prior to his injury, but that first SA championship was a pretty balanced performance for that team.

I agree with you about it being closer to Iggy's MVP. The difference is that Kawhi was the young guy ready to take over and his cast was aging, where as Iggy was older and his cast was entering their respective prime. that was the the post season when Duncan & co passed the torch.

cheetos185
07-01-2019, 05:10 PM
The real losers are the nets Kyrie has played 70 games only once in last 4 years KDs injury will take awhile to heal they got 340 mil next 4 years tied up to this guys and good luck with NY media once they put a target on your back your dead up till now nobody put them on spotlight but now they will be.

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smith&wesson
07-01-2019, 05:28 PM
The real losers are the nets Kyrie has played 70 games only once in last 4 years KDs injury will take awhile to heal they got 340 mil next 4 years tied up to this guys and good luck with NY media once they put a target on your back your dead up till now nobody put them on spotlight but now they will be.

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I agree. I liked what they had going and they shoulda built on that. Who knows when Durant comes back and, or if heís himself when he does. I lost all respect for Kyrie for dipping on two different contenders, this guy doesnít care about winning. Thereís guys that would die to be on the teams heís been on and contend for a ship.