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View Full Version : NBA All-Time Redraft Round 1 - Saskatchatoon vs Team Dhop



valade16
06-15-2019, 09:42 PM
Every year members of PSD get together and have a draft of all the players throughout history. They are then ranked and seeded where a "playoff" determines the winner of the game. This is that playoff. Look over the two teams and vote on which team you think would win in a 7 games series.


Saskatchatoon (Homecourt advantage)

PG: Isiah Thomas | Jrue Holiday
SG: Manu Ginobili | Mitch Richmond
SF: Julius Erving | Robert Horry
PF: Charles Barkley | Paul Millsap
C: Ben Wallace | Wes Unseld

vs.

Team Dhop

PG: Steph Curry | Alvin Robertson
SG: David Thompson | Byron Scott
SF: Jimmy Butler | Toni Kukoc
PF: Chris Webber | Buck Williams
C: Dwight Howard | Rudy Gobert

Wrench
06-15-2019, 09:47 PM
Other than Manu, who on Saskatchatoon spaces the floor in that starting 5?

dhopisthename
06-16-2019, 11:30 AM
short writeup
I have the best player in this series in curry. my team is built around 4 guys who can pass and a center who scored 20 points at a 61.5 ts% so you know he can finish. I also built my offense around 5 guys you have to cover at all times. we have seen how effective a Curry/draymond pick and and roll was, but now imagine webber in that spot who is still a great passer, but now can smoke someone in the low post, pull up from the free throw line, or find the open player. Our defense is anchored by Dwight and because as wrench said they don't have a ton of long range shooting and have ben wallace I can pack the paint more then usual and force guys to be either taking long range 2's or 3's when they aren't comfortable at that distance. I get to play 5 on 4 on defense because not only does ben wallace not take very many shots, but the few he does take he is very inefficient.

Dunkapolooza
06-16-2019, 02:27 PM
Nice write up Dhop. Love the offensive scheme you got here. Worried about everyone getting enough looks though, especially Howard, but in this match up he should have plenty of opportunity when Ben Wallace has to help. He'll need to cause Isiah can't handle Curry and Igu probably couldn't handle Thompson either. Meanwhile Butler on Dr. J isn't awful. He'll lose but at least its the kind of defender Dr. J demands.

Saskatchatoon should win the boards though. And I think Barkley would beat the hell out of Webber though.

NYKalltheway
06-16-2019, 02:30 PM
I don't buy that Curry is the best player in the series. He's the best shooter for sure and a phenomenal player obviously, but I'd take Isiah Thomas over him in an all time setting since shooting and offensive ability alone is not the catalyst here.

Also feel that both Barkley and Dr J are superior players overall, so essentially one team has the 3 best players. Having said this, the D Hop team matches up well and this is probably a 7 game series. But Saskatchatoon wins.

valade16
06-16-2019, 02:58 PM
I don't buy that Curry is the best player in the series. He's the best shooter for sure and a phenomenal player obviously, but I'd take Isiah Thomas over him in an all time setting since shooting and offensive ability alone is not the catalyst here.

Also feel that both Barkley and Dr J are superior players overall, so essentially one team has the 3 best players. Having said this, the D Hop team matches up well and this is probably a 7 game series. But Saskatchatoon wins.

Literally the only reason I can see someone saying IT is better than Curry is because he played 30 years ago.

Dunkapolooza
06-16-2019, 03:06 PM
Eh I can't put Isiah Thomas in Curry's league. Resume wise its not that off, but Curry was the only unanimous MVP. The game has completely changed. The schemes teams employ. The way kids practice. Its pretty nuts.

All that being said, Dr. J had a similar impact. Its hard for a lot of us to understand the phenomena that Dr. J was. His generation's version of Zion. Of Curry. Of Jordan. I'm not sure Curry is the best player in the series. To me it comes down to Igu / Ben Wallace <<< David Thompson / Howard more than the top players.

GREATNESS ONE
06-16-2019, 04:26 PM
Can’t vote for cheats, So default goes to Dhop’s team.

dhopisthename
06-16-2019, 04:36 PM
Nice write up Dhop. Love the offensive scheme you got here. Worried about everyone getting enough looks though, especially Howard, but in this match up he should have plenty of opportunity when Ben Wallace has to help. He'll need to cause Isiah can't handle Curry and Igu probably couldn't handle Thompson either. Meanwhile Butler on Dr. J isn't awful. He'll lose but at least its the kind of defender Dr. J demands.

Saskatchatoon should win the boards though. And I think Barkley would beat the hell out of Webber though.

would they win the boards though?
the only position that I think they have a clear advatage at is SF and I doubt that makes much of a difference. considering both teams have beast rebounders at PF and C and its hard to gauge how good of a rebounder DR J was considering his era.

dhopisthename
06-16-2019, 04:45 PM
Literally the only reason I can see someone saying IT is better than Curry is because he played 30 years ago.

lol yeah 3 year peaks against each other

26.4 PTS | 7.0 AST | 4.7 REB | 64.5 TS% | 46.1 WS | 28.1 PER | 43.6 3pt%
vs
21.2 PTS | 11.9 AST | 4.0 REB | 53.3 TS% | 29.0 WS | 21.5 PER | 29.4 3pt%

one is one of the most efficient players ever while one is quite frankly pretty inefficient.

Dunkapolooza
06-16-2019, 09:32 PM
That's kind of what I mean. Dr J was an excellent rebounder.

But more than that. Barkley averaged 12 plus rebounds per 36 for multiple 3 year runs in his career. Webber never once averaged 12 rebounds per 36. So even though Webber was a good rebounder, Barkley was better.

And Ben Wallace 13.5 vs 13.6 for Howard (though he sustained it for much longer.) is close. For me I give howard a slight advantage and will probably average the most in the series. But Barkley and Wallace will be right behind him.

And Erving will be next. It wasn't about era, it was about his leaping ability, effort, and it was simply a part of his game. Getting rebounds and starting fast breaks was one of his best skills. And playing minutes at PF in real life actually featured his rebounding and rim protecting skills for the nets. Incredible player.

I think you win though Dhop, largely because he'll have to win the rebounding by a hell of a lot to make up the difference between IT and Steph lol.

Curry / Thompson > IT / Manu

more than

Erving / Barkley > Butler / Webber ??

Probably not, but Howard smashes Ben Wallace in my opinion. Especially when you think about his spacing.

Quinnsanity
06-16-2019, 11:25 PM
How the **** did one of these teams get homecourt? These should be two bottom seeds.

Lakers + Giants
06-17-2019, 12:51 AM
While I believe it goes 7, my vote goes to Saskatchatoon with the HCA.

AI
06-17-2019, 04:36 AM
Apart from Curry, Saskatchatoon has an advantage at every matchup. Also, people are really sleeping on Isiah when it comes to the playoffs. He actually performed much better when it actually mattered than during the regular season. Charles and Dr. J would absolutely run wild and have their way this series as well. I like Saskatchatoon’s balance, think they easily win this series in 5-6 games. And why is nobody mentioning the clear bench advantage that Saskatchatoon has this series? Team Dhop has nobody that can come close to what Richmond would do this series off the bench, not to mention they also have Unseld, Millsap, Horry and even Jrue who has become one of the best two-way guards in today’s NBA.

mightybosstone
06-17-2019, 12:48 PM
To me, this comes down to fit vs. talent. Dhop's team fits better on paper. I can see how they would play offensively with a deadly inside/outside game with Curry and Webber/Dwight down low and two decent, albeit unspectacular ball-handlers in Curry and Butler. On the flip side, Saskatchatoon's squad is just crazy talented. If Dhop's squad has the best player in the series (which is certainly debatable) in Curry, then Saskatchatoon easily has the next three best in Barkley, Dr. J and Zeke. But I'm not sure how they would fit with each other offensively. Zeke probably runs the floor and they either look to Chuck down low or move the ball until Manu gets an open look or Dr. J finds lanes to get open shots?

But if the NBA has taught us anything, it's that fit is nice, but more often than not, talent wins out. Also, although I think Curry is probably the best player in the series talent-wise, Zeke is kind of a perfect fit on him. The guy was an elite perimeter defender who upped his game in the postseason—something Curry has been criticized for (especially in the last few weeks). Throw in competitors like Manu, Big Ben and Barkley, and I just like that teams makeup on paper.

Defensively, Dhop's squad is weak and undersized at the guard spots. I think Curry gets abused no matter which perimeter guy he's forced to defend. And Barkley is Saskatchatoon's biggest weakness on that end, but I think he'd abuse Webber on the flip side as well, and even if you switch Dwight on Chuck, Dwight can't defend out to 15-18 feet, where Charles was pretty solid from mid-range, whereas I think Wallace was a much more flexible defensive player in his prime than Dwight.

Bottom line: Saskatchatoon in 6.

AI
06-17-2019, 12:53 PM
To me, this comes down to fit vs. talent. Dhop's team fits better on paper. I can see how they would play offensively with a deadly inside/outside game with Curry and Webber/Dwight down low and two decent, albeit unspectacular ball-handlers in Curry and Butler. On the flip side, Saskatchatoon's squad is just crazy talented. If Dhop's squad has the best player in the series (which is certainly debatable) in Curry, then Saskatchatoon easily has the next three best in Barkley, Dr. J and Zeke. But I'm not sure how they would fit with each other offensively. Zeke probably runs the floor and they either look to Chuck down low or move the ball until Manu gets an open look or Dr. J finds lanes to get open shots?

But if the NBA has taught us anything, it's that fit is nice, but more often than not, talent wins out. Also, although I think Curry is probably the best player in the series talent-wise, Zeke is kind of a perfect fit on him. The guy was an elite perimeter defender who upped his game in the postseason—something Curry has been criticized for (especially in the last few weeks). Throw in competitors like Manu, Big Ben and Barkley, and I just like that teams makeup on paper.

Defensively, Dhop's squad is weak and undersized at the guard spots. I think Curry gets abused no matter which perimeter guy he's forced to defend. And Barkley is Saskatchatoon's biggest weakness on that end, but I think he'd abuse Webber on the flip side as well, and even if you switch Dwight on Chuck, Dwight can't defend out to 15-18 feet, where Charles was pretty solid from mid-range, whereas I think Wallace was a much more flexible defensive player in his prime than Dwight.

Bottom line: Saskatchatoon in 6.

Exactly. To follow up on this:

While Curry is obviously the better offensive player over IT, he is also a terrible defender and IT is known for raising his game to an entirely different level when it comes to the playoffs. His BPM goes from 2.2 in the regular season to over 3x that at 6.8 during the playoffs. As good as Curry is offensively, he won’t be able to stay in front of IT either and that’s a matchup that Saskatchatoon could exploit as well. IT was a willing passer (11.3 AST) and could create nightmares in the P&R with both Dr. J and Charles or he could attack the paint/create his own shot.

Barkley would absolutely have his way against Webber this series. Here are his #’s against Webber in the playoffs (albeit in a small sample size) but they back up my theory that Chris would get absolutely destroyed:

37.3 PPG | 61.0% FG% | 13.3 REB | 6.3 AST | 3.0 STL

And then there’s the freakishly athletic and efficient Dr. J who along with Chuck is not getting enough credit this series. Here are his peak #’s:

28.2 PPG | 51.0% FG% | 34.0% 3P% | 10.9 REB | 5.2 AST | 2.3 STL | 2.1 BLK | 26.8 PER | 9.2 BPM | 28.3 VORP

All in all, I think Saskachatoon has the much more talented and balanced starting lineup, a better bench plus like I said they have homecourt advantage this series... They win in 5-6 games.

dhopisthename
06-17-2019, 01:42 PM
Apart from Curry, Saskatchatoon has an advantage at every matchup. Also, people are really sleeping on Isiah when it comes to the playoffs. He actually performed much better when it actually mattered than during the regular season. Charles and Dr. J would absolutely run wild and have their way this series as well. I like Saskatchatoon’s balance, think they easily win this series in 5-6 games. And why is nobody mentioning the clear bench advantage that Saskatchatoon has this series? Team Dhop has nobody that can come close to what Richmond would do this series off the bench, not to mention they also have Unseld, Millsap, Horry and even Jrue who has become one of the best two-way guards in today’s NBA.

I clearly win at center its not even close. SG is pretty close as well. I know people love Manu, but thompson was an incredible athlete who was quite frankly easily better then Manu, but he doesn't take 3's so he gets drafted lower.

you also don't have a clear bench advantage at all. I have the best bench player and you have one wing backup

dhopisthename
06-17-2019, 01:50 PM
Exactly. To follow up on this:

While Curry is obviously the better offensive player over IT, he is also a terrible defender and IT is known for raising his game to an entirely different level when it comes to the playoffs. His BPM goes from 2.2 in the regular season to over 3x that at 6.8 during the playoffs. As good as Curry is offensively, he won’t be able to stay in front of IT either and that’s a matchup that Saskatchatoon could exploit as well. IT was a willing passer (11.3 AST) and could create nightmares in the P&R with both Dr. J and Charles or he could attack the paint/create his own shot.

Barkley would absolutely have his way against Webber this series. Here are his #’s against Webber in the playoffs (albeit in a small sample size) but they back up my theory that Chris would get absolutely destroyed:

37.3 PPG | 61.0% FG% | 13.3 REB | 6.3 AST | 3.0 STL

And then there’s the freakishly athletic and efficient Dr. J who along with Chuck is not getting enough credit this series. Here are his peak #’s:

28.2 PPG | 51.0% FG% | 34.0% 3P% | 10.9 REB | 5.2 AST | 2.3 STL | 2.1 BLK | 26.8 PER | 9.2 BPM | 28.3 VORP

All in all, I think Saskachatoon has the much more talented and balanced starting lineup, a better bench plus like I said they have homecourt advantage this series... They win in 5-6 games.

I am supposed to take a 3 game sample size to mean anything? hmm player in his prime destroys rookie in the playoffs. how surprising.

you could have posed the link, but that would destroy your narrative

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_select=Charles+Barkley&player_id1=barklch01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Chris+Webber&player_id2_select=Chris+Webber&player_id2=webbech01

the 11 regular season games were pretty close once webber stopped being a rookie, but too bad chuck was getting old before then.

VCaintdead17
06-17-2019, 07:18 PM
Thomas and Jrue is a nasty defensive duo

AI
06-18-2019, 05:48 PM
Bump.

valade16
06-19-2019, 11:19 PM
G1's vote has been disqualified for violating the spirit of the rules. The matchup is tied and there will be a 24 hour tiebreaker (in a new thread) to determine the winner.

GREATNESS ONE
06-19-2019, 11:22 PM
:laugh2: what?!?!

dhopisthename
06-20-2019, 12:57 AM
what a load of crap. if we are going to start discounting votes from someone because they might have a bias we might as well remove every Gm in the redrafts vote. you can't tell me people haven't voted a certain way because they would have a better matchup the next round, didn't like the person, or didn't like a certain player.