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Saddletramp
06-14-2019, 03:15 PM
Pretty sure Quinnsanity or Scoots might know this:



I know that contracts are backed by insurance in case a guy gets hurt but what is going to be the case when Klay signs with whomever in a month? Is that first set of missed games not going to be backed by insurance since the injury happened pre-(new)contract? After he comes back, I assume insurance would kick in?

Also, would the premiums and overall insurance money go up since he’s just coming off of a big injury that might linger afterwards? I think once a guy gets the surgery and it heals back up, he’ll be fine after a torn ACL, right? But what if it leads to other injuries?


Do bigger risks leads to insurance companies getting paid bigger insurance checks? Also, do older guys or guys with an injury history have higher premiums? Is it the same percentage paid for a 19 year old rookie as it is for Vince Carter or Iguadala?

Same question for KD if he opts out and signs a max with somebody. Is the team just paying out of their own pocket until he gets back on the court? Or is it just the cost of doing business? Not sure if an insurance company would sign on a new deal and immediately have to pay tens of millions of dollars before they see any money coming their way.

Basically, is insurance on these contracts all a set percentage or does it change? Is there any injuries that no insurance company would touch or is it all just a part of doing business with athletes? Also, what insurance company/companies provide insurance for athletes? I guess I could google that part, though.

TLDR: Does insurance pay out immediately on a new contract if the player signs while injured?

mike_noodles
06-14-2019, 04:37 PM
I wonder if you can even have a clause where the player doesn't start getting paid until he begins practicing with the team. Just made me think about that when reading your post, perhaps a way for teams to get creative with the deals.

Quinnsanity
06-14-2019, 04:39 PM
I'm not entirely certain how this is going to play out, but here is my guess based on my reading of the rule.

The league's insurance policy starts to pay out once a player has missed 41 games for the same injury. I think it's safe to say that both KD and Klay are going to miss 41 games next season. That policy dictates that 80% of their salary is covered. However, it is only the raw salary that is covered. The Warriors are responsible for any luxury tax payments that their salary numbers incur (i.e, the luxury tax calculator does not deduct salary paid by insurance). That 80% figure is paid out on a per game basis until that player returns, and to be clear, it only covers games played after that initial 41.

As far as I can tell, there is no provision in the CBA or the league's insurance policy that stipulates any changes if a player signs a contract while injured. The insurer is allowed to exclude up to 14 players from the policy per year, but I believe those choices must be made on the basis of future risk, not current injury. For example, Luol Deng was excluded several years ago because of his susceptibility to back injuries, not a specific injury that they didn't want to pay out on. In other words, the insurer may choose to exclude Durant or Thompson in the future, once this specific injury has passed them, but I don't believe they are allowed to just say "nah we aren't paying out on these injuries."

That is my interpretation of the rules, but I'm willing to admit I'm not an expert on the league's insurance policy. I'm working off of Larry Coon's information with this one.

Quinnsanity
06-14-2019, 04:43 PM
I wonder if you can even have a clause where the player doesn't start getting paid until he begins practicing with the team. Just made me think about that when reading your post, perhaps a way for teams to get creative with the deals.

This is not legal. You can write non-guarantees into contracts based on injuries and time missed, but a contract can never kick in like that. Once it is signed, it is paid out until stipulations are specifically not met. Like you can't say "this contract only takes effect once you've played X games," but you can say "if you don't play X games, we have the right to void part or all of the contract."

Saddletramp
06-14-2019, 05:41 PM
I'm not entirely certain how this is going to play out, but here is my guess based on my reading of the rule.

The league's insurance policy starts to pay out once a player has missed 41 games for the same injury. I think it's safe to say that both KD and Klay are going to miss 41 games next season. That policy dictates that 80% of their salary is covered. However, it is only the raw salary that is covered. The Warriors are responsible for any luxury tax payments that their salary numbers incur (i.e, the luxury tax calculator does not deduct salary paid by insurance). That 80% figure is paid out on a per game basis until that player returns, and to be clear, it only covers games played after that initial 41.

As far as I can tell, there is no provision in the CBA or the league's insurance policy that stipulates any changes if a player signs a contract while injured. The insurer is allowed to exclude up to 14 players from the policy per year, but I believe those choices must be made on the basis of future risk, not current injury. For example, Luol Deng was excluded several years ago because of his susceptibility to back injuries, not a specific injury that they didn't want to pay out on. In other words, the insurer may choose to exclude Durant or Thompson in the future, once this specific injury has passed them, but I don't believe they are allowed to just say "nah we aren't paying out on these injuries."

That is my interpretation of the rules, but I'm willing to admit I'm not an expert on the league's insurance policy. I'm working off of Larry Coon's information with this one.

Gotcha. Thanks. I wonder if it’s a “we’re not insuring that first year” sort of agreement if a new contract is signed by an injured player. It’s gotta be. Then again, I don’t think Lacomb would bar an eye. He wants to win and Curry can coast them to the playoffs (even if it’s a low seed) and then the troops will reinforce their playoff run.

SiteWolf
06-14-2019, 07:04 PM
Why is it that so many of you seem to think Curry and no Durant OR Klay still means coasting to the playoffs....there IS no coasting, and certainly not in the West.

This also isn't a Popeye cartoon where Wimpy can say 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today' in a contract.

mike_noodles
06-14-2019, 07:19 PM
This is not legal. You can write non-guarantees into contracts based on injuries and time missed, but a contract can never kick in like that. Once it is signed, it is paid out until stipulations are specifically not met. Like you can't say "this contract only takes effect once you've played X games," but you can say "if you don't play X games, we have the right to void part or all of the contract."

Yeah, I guess if you don't want to pay the player while he's hurt you don't sign him until he's ready to go. In Klay and Kevin's cases teams won't care and will sign them regardless.

likemystylez
06-14-2019, 08:00 PM
Why is it that so many of you seem to think Curry and no Durant OR Klay still means coasting to the playoffs....there IS no coasting, and certainly not in the West.

This also isn't a Popeye cartoon where Wimpy can say 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today' in a contract.

I actually think they might as well tank the season and try and get a top 5 pick. Just not sure you could sell that to Joe lacob as he is charging people 200.00 for upper level seats in mid January for a 11-26 team with Curry on his 10th home load management game of the season.

Saddletramp
06-15-2019, 04:00 AM
Why is it that so many of you seem to think Curry and no Durant OR Klay still means coasting to the playoffs....there IS no coasting, and certainly not in the West.

This also isn't a Popeye cartoon where Wimpy can say 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today' in a contract.

I fully expect a team of Curry/Green/Iguadala/Cook/Mckinnie/possibly Cousins to make it to the playoffs and if they don’t, I never want to hear Curry’s name uttered with the Greats again.


Yeah, I guess if you don't want to pay the player while he's hurt you don't sign him until he's ready to go. In Klay and Kevin's cases teams won't care and will sign them regardless.

It won’t happen with them but also, they’d lose their Bird Rights if they’re renounced to make other moves. And if their cap holds stick around, they won’t be able to make any other moves.

SiteWolf
06-15-2019, 07:48 AM
I fully expect a team of Curry/Green/Iguadala/Cook/Mckinnie/possibly Cousins to make it to the playoffs and if they don’t, I never want to hear Curry’s name uttered with the Greats again.



It won’t happen with them but also, they’d lose their Bird Rights if they’re renounced to make other moves. And if their cap holds stick around, they won’t be able to make any other moves.

there's a huge difference between MAKING the playoffs and COASTING to them

Saddletramp
06-15-2019, 12:12 PM
there's a huge difference between MAKING the playoffs and COASTING to them

Ok, maybe coasting was the wrong word.