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View Full Version : The NBA needs to limit the power of Rich Paul.



j-bay
06-12-2019, 11:54 AM
As a fan of a smalll market team its hard enough acquire talent. What fans on this board don't seem understand (you will understand which fans in a sec) is that some teams have to overpay their talent because of the ******** "buddy system". Not every team has beautiful beaches, nightclubs, and great weather 365 days a year. If a player doesn't get what they want its "**** it. I can go play with the Lakers or the Heat with a Lebron James, a KD, or a AD". Now what is really ****** up is the new draft lottery. The Big market fans are saying this is a great idea. But NO! Its not. Lets say for example Lillard decides to leave Blazers, Blazers had a bad 2 years, so he is leaving. No problem the Blazers are in the top 3. They then drop down to 5 and the Heat get the #1 pick ater having the 9th best odds. Lillard goes to heat and Miami has both Lillard and the 1st round pick. Now lets get to Rich Paul. What Rich Paul is doing is going to hurt small market teams even more. Sure you can make the case he is helping Lebron, but i'm going to guess this will now be a tactic NBA agents and players will use to get what they want or force a leave. Big market teams will use that as an advantage in negotiations. They will try and lower the prices for their best interest. And Small market teams will have to decide "Do i risk the chance of not getting a better player because of the new lottery system". If your a fan of a small market team, jump ship to other leagues. I also have the Celtics, but some people don't have other teams.

ewing
06-12-2019, 12:25 PM
What him, his agent, and LeBron are doing is total horseshit. The guy stopped playing with two year left on his deal and then colludes with other players and looks to the call the shot. AD should be suspended for up coming season for breach of contract

cmellofan15
06-12-2019, 02:07 PM
Idk maybe when your superstar player requests a trade you should communicate with him and his agent?? See also: Jimmy Butler

mike_noodles
06-12-2019, 02:11 PM
It pays to be the lackey of a superstar.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2019, 02:26 PM
As a fan of a smalll market team its hard enough acquire talent. What fans on this board don't seem understand (you will understand which fans in a sec) is that some teams have to overpay their talent because of the ******** "buddy system". Not every team has beautiful beaches, nightclubs, and great weather 365 days a year. If a player doesn't get what they want its "**** it. I can go play with the Lakers or the Heat with a Lebron James, a KD, or a AD". Now what is really ****** up is the new draft lottery. The Big market fans are saying this is a great idea. But NO! Its not. Lets say for example Lillard decides to leave Blazers, Blazers had a bad 2 years, so he is leaving. No problem the Blazers are in the top 3. They then drop down to 5 and the Heat get the #1 pick ater having the 9th best odds. Lillard goes to heat and Miami has both Lillard and the 1st round pick. Now lets get to Rich Paul. What Rich Paul is doing is going to hurt small market teams even more. Sure you can make the case he is helping Lebron, but i'm going to guess this will now be a tactic NBA agents and players will use to get what they want or force a leave. Big market teams will use that as an advantage in negotiations. They will try and lower the prices for their best interest. And Small market teams will have to decide "Do i risk the chance of not getting a better player because of the new lottery system". If your a fan of a small market team, jump ship to other leagues. I also have the Celtics, but some people don't have other teams.

Holy rant. Gather yourself.

How is what Rich Paul doing any different than Kawhis agents or PG13ís? They all publicly requested trades. They had their lists. It didnít matter.

People need to relax. I donít like Rich Paul. Heís an assclown. But of all the things to ***** about this is what weíre whining about?

Is SAS a small market team? TOR? GS?

Seems to me the likes of LA, NY and CHI - the largest market teams - havenít done so well in a long time.

Yeah location helps. Thatís any sport. But what matters is management, ownership and coaching. Get those in line and youíll be successful. Free Agency is not the way to build a team. Drafting and developing is.

Switch
06-12-2019, 03:52 PM
Let me guess. Another butt hurt Celtics fan? Lol get over it. AD doesnt want Boston. Rich Paul is doing what's best for his client

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j-bay
06-12-2019, 03:59 PM
Let me guess. Another butt hurt Celtics fan? Lol get over it. AD doesnt want Boston. Rich Paul is doing what's best for his client

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

Actually a Wizards fan. I do love the Celtics though. I'm concerned about the league and where its going.

j-bay
06-12-2019, 04:01 PM
Let me guess. Another butt hurt Celtics fan? Lol get over it. AD doesnt want Boston. Rich Paul is doing what's best for his client

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

By the way who is Rich Paul really tying to help? AD or Lebron.

warfelg
06-12-2019, 04:10 PM
By the way who is Rich Paul really tying to help? AD or Lebron.

I know I kinda openly asked this in the other thread, but if you're AD and you really want out of NO because it's poorly run....what exactly about LAL and NYK is that much better? There's quite a few teams out there that are much better run IMO if that's why you want out.

j-bay
06-12-2019, 04:14 PM
I know I kinda openly asked this in the other thread, but if you're AD and you really want out of NO because it's poorly run....what exactly about LAL and NYK is that much better? There's quite a few teams out there that are much better run IMO if that's why you want out.

This. I mean if the Pelicans are poorly run, the Lakers are in way worse shape. Its a circus over there. This has LeBrons finger prints all over it.

SfgiantsJD3
06-12-2019, 04:15 PM
By the way who is Rich Paul really tying to help? AD or Lebron.

His Clients, AD, LeBron

warfelg
06-12-2019, 04:26 PM
This. I mean if the Pelicans are poorly run, the Lakers are in way worse shape. Its a circus over there. This has LeBrons finger prints all over it.

Exactly. He's not worried about his client that wants traded. He's worried about his client who's chasing the ghost of MJ. It's a joke IMO for them to play this charade that it's about not having a winning team in NO. IIRC the two teams on his list have the two worst records combined of the last 6 years.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2019, 04:26 PM
By the way who is Rich Paul really tying to help? AD or Lebron.

So youíre suggesting that RP is going out on his own without ADs blessing saying these things to help LeBron? Címon you canít honestly believe that.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2019, 04:28 PM
I know I kinda openly asked this in the other thread, but if you're AD and you really want out of NO because it's poorly run....what exactly about LAL and NYK is that much better? There's quite a few teams out there that are much better run IMO if that's why you want out.

To be fair NYK and LAL has new management and coaching. Tons of cap and good young talent. Plus a major market, something AD has never experienced. I root against NYK and LAL every chance I get. But you canít hold past regimes failures against the current regimes.

warfelg
06-12-2019, 04:34 PM
So youíre suggesting that RP is going out on his own without ADs blessing saying these things to help LeBron? Címon you canít honestly believe that.

No I think he's suggesting the reason they came out so against every other team was to force him to the Lakers to help LeBron. Like at the trade deadline AD's list was 3 teams longer and suddenly its only two teams.

warfelg
06-12-2019, 04:40 PM
To be fair NYK and LAL has new management and coaching. Tons of cap and good young talent. Plus a major market, something AD has never experienced. I root against NYK and LAL every chance I get. But you canít hold past regimes failures against the current regimes.

NYK and LAL have the same management as the last 2 years...

Oakmont_4
06-12-2019, 05:23 PM
NYK and LAL have the same management as the last 2 years...

Magic Johnson = gone
Luke Walton = gone

NYK yes 2 years. Still considered new considering theyíre still in the beginning stages of a rebuild. Theyíve done nothing to question their direction and made some pretty solid hires and draft picks.

Point is. The organizational structure currently in place in both organizations have had nothing to do with past failures and why theyíre in the rebuilding stages theyíre currently in.

Now youíre just disagreeing to disagree

ewing
06-12-2019, 05:30 PM
Magic Johnson = gone
Luke Walton = gone

NYK yes 2 years. Still considered new considering theyíre still in the beginning stages of a rebuild. Theyíve done nothing to question their direction and made some pretty solid hires and draft picks.

Point is. The organizational structure currently in place in both organizations have had nothing to do with past failures and why theyíre in the rebuilding stages theyíre currently in.

Now youíre just disagreeing to disagree

Not true both have questionable ownership and in NY case they have a long history i abandoning every plan mgt puts together to make all in moves or fire everyone in charge

Oakmont_4
06-12-2019, 05:32 PM
Not true both have questionable ownership and in NY case they have a long history i abandoning every plan mgt puts together to make all in moves or fire everyone in charge

Irrelevant. Past failures have nothing to do with the current FO and coaching staff.

Dade County
06-12-2019, 05:39 PM
As a fan of a smalll market team its hard enough acquire talent. What fans on this board don't seem understand (you will understand which fans in a sec) is that some teams have to overpay their talent because of the ******** "buddy system". Not every team has beautiful beaches, nightclubs, and great weather 365 days a year. If a player doesn't get what they want its "**** it. I can go play with the Lakers or the Heat with a Lebron James, a KD, or a AD". Now what is really ****** up is the new draft lottery.

Why HEAT in your post.. Something about to go down with Miami, let me know?

& that team has to have Cap space and other players to even attract other free agents.



The Big market fans are saying this is a great idea. But NO! Its not. Lets say for example Lillard decides to leave Blazers, Blazers had a bad 2 years, so he is leaving. No problem the Blazers are in the top 3. They then drop down to 5 and the Heat get the #1 pick ater having the 9th best odds.

You know what...I have a strong feeling that Miami was supposed to get the number 1 pick in this draft. But thats another story lol



Lillard goes to heat and Miami has both Lillard and the 1st round pick.

Miami again...



Now lets get to Rich Paul. What Rich Paul is doing is going to hurt small market teams even more. Sure you can make the case he is helping Lebron, but i'm going to guess this will now be a tactic NBA agents and players will use to get what they want or force a leave. Big market teams will use that as an advantage in negotiations. They will try and lower the prices for their best interest. And Small market teams will have to decide "Do i risk the chance of not getting a better player because of the new lottery system". If your a fan of a small market team, jump ship to other leagues. I also have the Celtics, but some people don't have other teams.

Agents have always did this, it's just now RP is making it public; so the media can't turn around and try to vilify AD when he leaves next off season. Thats all.

He is warning teams, this is a good thing. Now when a team trades for AD, everyone knows whats up; no media manipulation, tricking the fan base that AD might re-sign.

Like how they are doing with kawhi & what they tried to do with Irving. But Kyrie wasn't having that, no one is going to control where he ends up.

ewing
06-12-2019, 05:53 PM
Irrelevant. Past failures have nothing to do with the current FO and coaching staff.


Yeah I'd trust the Knicks to stick with a plan

formula101
06-12-2019, 07:41 PM
Brotha man come up. Let him get his.

ewing
06-12-2019, 08:25 PM
Brotha man come up. Let him get his.

Excuse me?


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formula101
06-12-2019, 08:39 PM
His paper, mang.

ewing
06-12-2019, 11:31 PM
His paper, mang.

Do you have Touretteís?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Storch
06-12-2019, 11:36 PM
Force players to stay where they are unhappy. Lets work on that rule shall we?

Quinnsanity
06-12-2019, 11:52 PM
Do any of you who are complaining about Rich Paul know what he actually does?

He represents the interests of his players. He works on their behalf. Anthony Davis told him he wanted to be traded. So it is Paul's job to try to get him traded. His job is to literally serve the financial and professional interests of those who hire him to do so. He doesn't have any special powers. He is acting on behalf of those who have empowered him to do so. This is what drives me crazy about people complaining about Rich Paul. You act as if there's anything novel about him. He's not doing anything abnormal. If you are mad at Rich Paul's actions, then what you're really mad at is the concept of player empowerment.

There is a grain of merit in those concerns, but if you want to watch a sport in which players are chained to teams, then go watch football. No, it is not ideal for the league to have a power structure so heavily tilted in favor of teams in desirable markets, but guess what, the players didn't ask for that. Owners are the ones who campaigned for shorter contracts. Magic Johnson literally signed a 25-year contract in the 1980's. Owners demanded seven-year maxes, then six, then five. They did that to protect themselves. They don't get to have their cake and eat it too. If they want to keep players longer, they have to absorb the risk that comes with that.

But back to Paul, it also must be said that virtually everything he does, other agents have done. In fact, other agents have done far, far worse. Jeff Schwartz more or less ran the Milwaukee Bucks for years. David Falk more or less engineered a ****ing lockout. And you're mad because Rich Paul communicates his client's desire to play for another team? What about when Kobe Bryant went on ESPN and literally said the words "I would like to be traded" to Stephen A. Smith? Players asking for trades is not new. Agents working to get those trades isn't either.

But Paul doesn't look like other agents. He didn't go to law school or come up through the traditional pipeline. He is unique, and that uniquely positions him to be your punching bad no matter what your bias. If you don't like LeBron? He's LeBron's guy. If you don't like superstars and free agency? He's just the guy who forces people to big markets. If you're a racist, and let's be honest, a lot of the criticism for Paul is racially generated, then of course you're going to go after him.

Just don't pretend Rich Paul, on his own, is some malevolent force ruining basketball. Suggesting that he has that kind of power is ****ing stupid. If you want to whine about the state of the league, go for it. Just don't pretend any one single person is responsible for it, and go learn what it is that agents actually do before you go after a guy just because some dipshit radio host you listen to doesn't like him.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 07:27 AM
Force players to stay where they are unhappy. Lets work on that rule shall we?

How do you suppose that changes?

And FWIW Iím not for forcing the players to stay in a bad situation. Iím against the agent making the same process be so public with all the statements.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 08:18 AM
Do any of you who are complaining about Rich Paul know what he actually does?

He represents the interests of his players. He works on their behalf. Anthony Davis told him he wanted to be traded. So it is Paul's job to try to get him traded. His job is to literally serve the financial and professional interests of those who hire him to do so. He doesn't have any special powers. He is acting on behalf of those who have empowered him to do so. This is what drives me crazy about people complaining about Rich Paul. You act as if there's anything novel about him. He's not doing anything abnormal. If you are mad at Rich Paul's actions, then what you're really mad at is the concept of player empowerment.

There is a grain of merit in those concerns, but if you want to watch a sport in which players are chained to teams, then go watch football. No, it is not ideal for the league to have a power structure so heavily tilted in favor of teams in desirable markets, but guess what, the players didn't ask for that. Owners are the ones who campaigned for shorter contracts. Magic Johnson literally signed a 25-year contract in the 1980's. Owners demanded seven-year maxes, then six, then five. They did that to protect themselves. They don't get to have their cake and eat it too. If they want to keep players longer, they have to absorb the risk that comes with that.

But back to Paul, it also must be said that virtually everything he does, other agents have done. In fact, other agents have done far, far worse. Jeff Schwartz more or less ran the Milwaukee Bucks for years. David Falk more or less engineered a ****ing lockout. And you're mad because Rich Paul communicates his client's desire to play for another team? What about when Kobe Bryant went on ESPN and literally said the words "I would like to be traded" to Stephen A. Smith? Players asking for trades is not new. Agents working to get those trades isn't either.

But Paul doesn't look like other agents. He didn't go to law school or come up through the traditional pipeline. He is unique, and that uniquely positions him to be your punching bad no matter what your bias. If you don't like LeBron? He's LeBron's guy. If you don't like superstars and free agency? He's just the guy who forces people to big markets. If you're a racist, and let's be honest, a lot of the criticism for Paul is racially generated, then of course you're going to go after him.

Just don't pretend Rich Paul, on his own, is some malevolent force ruining basketball. Suggesting that he has that kind of power is ****ing stupid. If you want to whine about the state of the league, go for it. Just don't pretend any one single person is responsible for it, and go learn what it is that agents actually do before you go after a guy just because some dipshit radio host you listen to doesn't like him.

How often have we seen agents be as public about all these contracts and player movement as Rich Paul? That's what I don't like. I get that agents have long controlled things, but I can't recall a time where an agent was so open just outright saying "you're wasting assets". Having the preferred destinations isn't new, and frankly I'm ok with that. But Rich Paul has been open in saying what it is from the start and that's what got him in some hot water mid-season (when AD got fined $50K for Rich Pauls statements). I think that kinda backs up that we should have the right to be unhappy with the fact that RP is being so public about this situation.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 10:36 AM
Do any of you who are complaining about Rich Paul know what he actually does?

He represents the interests of his players. He works on their behalf. Anthony Davis told him he wanted to be traded. So it is Paul's job to try to get him traded. His job is to literally serve the financial and professional interests of those who hire him to do so. He doesn't have any special powers. He is acting on behalf of those who have empowered him to do so. This is what drives me crazy about people complaining about Rich Paul. You act as if there's anything novel about him. He's not doing anything abnormal. If you are mad at Rich Paul's actions, then what you're really mad at is the concept of player empowerment.

There is a grain of merit in those concerns, but if you want to watch a sport in which players are chained to teams, then go watch football. No, it is not ideal for the league to have a power structure so heavily tilted in favor of teams in desirable markets, but guess what, the players didn't ask for that. Owners are the ones who campaigned for shorter contracts. Magic Johnson literally signed a 25-year contract in the 1980's. Owners demanded seven-year maxes, then six, then five. They did that to protect themselves. They don't get to have their cake and eat it too. If they want to keep players longer, they have to absorb the risk that comes with that.

But back to Paul, it also must be said that virtually everything he does, other agents have done. In fact, other agents have done far, far worse. Jeff Schwartz more or less ran the Milwaukee Bucks for years. David Falk more or less engineered a ****ing lockout. And you're mad because Rich Paul communicates his client's desire to play for another team? What about when Kobe Bryant went on ESPN and literally said the words "I would like to be traded" to Stephen A. Smith? Players asking for trades is not new. Agents working to get those trades isn't either.

But Paul doesn't look like other agents. He didn't go to law school or come up through the traditional pipeline. He is unique, and that uniquely positions him to be your punching bad no matter what your bias. If you don't like LeBron? He's LeBron's guy. If you don't like superstars and free agency? He's just the guy who forces people to big markets. If you're a racist, and let's be honest, a lot of the criticism for Paul is racially generated, then of course you're going to go after him.

Just don't pretend Rich Paul, on his own, is some malevolent force ruining basketball. Suggesting that he has that kind of power is ****ing stupid. If you want to whine about the state of the league, go for it. Just don't pretend any one single person is responsible for it, and go learn what it is that agents actually do before you go after a guy just because some dipshit radio host you listen to doesn't like him.

Slow clap. Bravo my friend. You nailed it.

crewfan13
06-13-2019, 10:53 AM
How often have we seen agents be as public about all these contracts and player movement as Rich Paul? That's what I don't like. I get that agents have long controlled things, but I can't recall a time where an agent was so open just outright saying "you're wasting assets". Having the preferred destinations isn't new, and frankly I'm ok with that. But Rich Paul has been open in saying what it is from the start and that's what got him in some hot water mid-season (when AD got fined $50K for Rich Pauls statements). I think that kinda backs up that we should have the right to be unhappy with the fact that RP is being so public about this situation.

Rich Paul works on behalf of his players. If Anthony Davis is unhappy with what Paul is doing or how he's handling the situation, then he has every right to move on from him to a new agent. There's been no rumblings that AD is considering an agent move. Thus, it would lead me to believe AD is happy with the way this is playing out.

If he really doesn't want to play in Boston and only wants to go to New York or LA, then what Paul is doing is absolutely right. If none of this is public, a GM (Ainge in this case) can try to trade for AD and if/when AD walks, he cna try to save face and say AD gave them no indication he wasn't willing to sign. By publicly making these comments, it ups the ante for those GMs. If they make a trade, don't win a championship and AD leaves, everyone will call it a failure since everyone knew he was leaving.

I get people hate rich Paul. Mostly because I bet alot of those people hate lebron. But at the end of the day, Paul is acting on ADs behalf. Unless AD fires him or publicly contradicts what Paul is saying, I don't understand how anyone can question whether he's working with ADs best interest in mind.

Heediot
06-13-2019, 10:57 AM
I get people hate rich Paul. Mostly because I bet alot of those people hate lebron. But at the end of the day, Paul is acting on ADs behalf. Unless AD fires him or publicly contradicts what Paul is saying, I don't understand how anyone can question whether he's working with ADs best interest in mind.

It's more about manipulating the system to LeBron's benefit. Once AD signed with Paul most people and experts were already speculating. The chess pieces fell right before the deadline. Pelicans's weren't having any of that and made the Lakers and Bron look like tools at the deadline.

After getting Zion, they might cave in due to the lucky bounce, but they will still milk the Lakers more vs. another team who is willing to trade. They would probably prefer to use LAL for leverage first and see where it goes.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 11:02 AM
It's more about manipulating the system to LeBron's benefit. Once AD signed with Paul most people and experts were already speculating. The chess pieces fell right before the deadline. Pelicans's weren't having any of that and made the Lakers and Bron look like tools at the deadline.

After getting Zion, they might cave in due to the lucky bounce, but they will still milk the Lakers more vs. another team who is willing to trade. They would probably prefer to use LAL for leverage first and see where it goes.

If he goes to NYK whoís 1 of 2 on his list, how does that benefit LeBron?

If their antics pissed off NO and it costs the Lakers more assets than another team wouldíve cost, how does that benefit LeBron?

Everyone whoís complaining on this are completely basing those complaints off perception, not fact. And as these perceptions are being called out, those arguing against are getting more and more defensive with little to no factual interjection and even more perceptions and conspiracies being interjected. What does that tell you?

Heediot
06-13-2019, 11:04 AM
^^^

My guts is telling me this was planned and colluded behind the scenes and they laid out out possible steps/plays in accordance to how the Pels were performing. Paul/Bron/AD were all in on this. Just like Bron/Wade/Bosh had their back dealings before joining Miami. Bron is a straight up manipulative snake and wants others to do his dirty work. I'm going with my intuition on this this, y'all can have your own opinions.

Heediot
06-13-2019, 11:08 AM
If he goes to NYK whoís 1 of 2 on his list, how does that benefit LeBron?

If their antics pissed off NO and it costs the Lakers more assets than another team wouldíve cost, how does that benefit LeBron?

Everyone whoís complaining on this are completely basing those complaints off perception, not fact. And as these perceptions are being called out, those arguing against are getting more and more defensive with little to no factual interjection and even more perceptions and conspiracies being interjected. What does that tell you?

When AD listed his teams at the time (before deadline), NYK didn't have much to offer for AD, and he listed Boston because they knew Boston couldn't trade for AD. It's basically a PR ploy.

Once they figured Pel's were going to play hard to get to the extreme with the Lakers, they opened up to other possibilities. But at the deadline, once they Knew Pel's were done, they wanted to strong arm him to LeBron.

I just have a gut feeling they wanted to muscle and strategize a way to make it easier for him to team with LeBron first and foremost.

Heediot
06-13-2019, 11:13 AM
And as these perceptions are being called out, those arguing against are getting more and more defensive with little to no factual interjection and even more perceptions and conspiracies being interjected. What does that tell you?

Just like how peoiple would eat up any tyrade rumor with no substance and fly with it. LMAO, you have to live life with a balance of evidence and gut feeling, that's how it is for those who make it to the top in any field. Waiting for certainty doesn't pay off.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 11:13 AM
When AD listed his teams at the time (before deadline), NYK didn't have much to offer for AD, and he listed Boston because they knew Boston couldn't trade for AD. It's basically a PR ploy.

Once they figured Pel's were going to play hard to get to the extreme with the Lakers, they opened up to other possibilities. But at the deadline, once they Knew Pel's were done, they wanted to strong arm him to LeBron.

I just have a gut feeling they wanted to muscle and strategize a way to make it easier for him to team with LeBron first and foremost.

Remember that initial list was NY, LA, Mil, Bos.

Heediot
06-13-2019, 11:19 AM
Remember that initial list was NY, LA, Mil, Bos.

Initial list was LAL, one week later he added the other 3. Bos (incapable unless, Kyrie was traded) and Mil (not enough assets outside Greek, without destroying team depth) had no chance, and Knicks didn't have the assets. They even got the dad to ***** about Boston (IT's injury) to make them look even worse.

Everything was planned and strategized with mad collusion. You can always change your demands and stance in accordance to ho much resistance your demands are getting as proven by how the Pel's had the same feeling and played Klutch and Bron at the deadline.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 11:23 AM
Rich Paul works on behalf of his players. If Anthony Davis is unhappy with what Paul is doing or how he's handling the situation, then he has every right to move on from him to a new agent. There's been no rumblings that AD is considering an agent move. Thus, it would lead me to believe AD is happy with the way this is playing out.

Where is this part been brought up at all with any of us that donít like how public this has all been?

For the 100th time. Itís fine for him to want out. Itís fine for him to have preferred destinations. It not cool to me for them to be continually stating it in interviews and on TV.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 11:25 AM
Initial list was LAL, one week later he added the other 3. Bos (incapable unless, Kyrie was traded) and Mil (not enough assets outside Greek, without destroying team depth) had no chance, and Knicks didn't have the assets. They even got the dad to ***** about Boston (IT's injury) to make them look even worse.

Everything was planned and strategized with mad collusion. You can always change your demands and stance in accordance to ho much resistance your demands are getting as proven by how the Pel's had the same feeling and played Klutch and Bron at the deadline.

Very true. But now that other teams are more realistic (Mil, Bos) they are off the list. But again, my issue isnít the list, itís how public they are about the process.

Heediot
06-13-2019, 11:27 AM
Very true. But now that other teams are more realistic (Mil, Bos) they are off the list. But again, my issue isnít the list, itís how public they are about the process.

Yeah. I feel you. Bron is using others to do his dirty work. Rich Paul has no shame lol. Some players don't mind that kind of agent.

Not sure why the Raps weren't added. They had Kawhi and the assets to make an offer. Pascal, OG, FVV, Jonas (at the time_ and throw in future picks.

Quinnsanity
06-13-2019, 11:38 AM
How often have we seen agents be as public about all these contracts and player movement as Rich Paul? That's what I don't like. I get that agents have long controlled things, but I can't recall a time where an agent was so open just outright saying "you're wasting assets". Having the preferred destinations isn't new, and frankly I'm ok with that. But Rich Paul has been open in saying what it is from the start and that's what got him in some hot water mid-season (when AD got fined $50K for Rich Pauls statements). I think that kinda backs up that we should have the right to be unhappy with the fact that RP is being so public about this situation.

Why is that a bad thing? Don't teams, and fans for that matter, have a right to know what they're getting themselves into? Frankly, going public is actually a good thing. It adds a layer of accountability to the whole affair. If a team trades for a player and he leaves, we've seen what kind of playbook they operate. They execute a bogus smear campaign, brand the player as disloyal, hurt his earning power and reputation and basically banish him from a city that he probably has some emotional attachment to. By going public, players are just being honest and telling their side of the story. They are saying "I am not going to stay here, you should know that now, and if you are dumb enough to trade for me/keep me, it's your own fault. I am not responsible for your bad decisions" Fans deserve to know who to blame when this **** goes sideways. Teams deserve time to plan. But most fans would rather just go on a witch hunt.

It's so ****ing hypocritical. Look at how much **** LeBron got for apparently blindsiding the Cavs in 2010 and 2018. The first time he reached free agency, he waited until July 8th to make a decision and everyone lost their minds because he gave them no time to sign other players and build a backup plan. The issue last year was that they couldn't trade for other players not knowing what he was going to do. He did the exact opposite of going public... and got just as much **** for it.

Let's just call this what it is. Fans have a slave owner mentality. They think players should act on the best interests of fans, not themselves. And that is utter ********. These are human beings who are allowed to seek whatever they want out of their careers. That can mean money, location, winning, anything, and they don't owe their teams ****. Going public is a goddamn courtesy. Players don't have to reveal their plans to anyone. But by doing so, they allow teams the tools to plan ahead and fans time to brace themselves.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 11:44 AM
Initial list was LAL, one week later he added the other 3. Bos (incapable unless, Kyrie was traded) and Mil (not enough assets outside Greek, without destroying team depth) had no chance, and Knicks didn't have the assets. They even got the dad to ***** about Boston (IT's injury) to make them look even worse.

Everything was planned and strategized with mad collusion. You can always change your demands and stance in accordance to ho much resistance your demands are getting as proven by how the Pel's had the same feeling and played Klutch and Bron at the deadline.

Youíre deep down the rabbit hole now

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 11:50 AM
Why is that a bad thing? Don't teams, and fans for that matter, have a right to know what they're getting themselves into? Frankly, going public is actually a good thing. It adds a layer of accountability to the whole affair. If a team trades for a player and he leaves, we've seen what kind of playbook they operate. They execute a bogus smear campaign, brand the player as disloyal, hurt his earning power and reputation and basically banish him from a city that he probably has some emotional attachment to. By going public, players are just being honest and telling their side of the story. They are saying "I am not going to stay here, you should know that now, and if you are dumb enough to trade for me/keep me, it's your own fault. I am not responsible for your bad decisions" Fans deserve to know who to blame when this **** goes sideways. Teams deserve time to plan. But most fans would rather just go on a witch hunt.

It's so ****ing hypocritical. Look at how much **** LeBron got for apparently blindsiding the Cavs in 2010 and 2018. The first time he reached free agency, he waited until July 8th to make a decision and everyone lost their minds because he gave them no time to sign other players and build a backup plan. The issue last year was that they couldn't trade for other players not knowing what he was going to do. He did the exact opposite of going public... and got just as much **** for it.

Let's just call this what it is. Fans have a slave owner mentality. They think players should act on the best interests of fans, not themselves. And that is utter ********. These are human beings who are allowed to seek whatever they want out of their careers. That can mean money, location, winning, anything, and they don't owe their teams ****. Going public is a goddamn courtesy. Players don't have to reveal their plans to anyone. But by doing so, they allow teams the tools to plan ahead and fans time to brace themselves.

Exactly. And whatís lost in all of this, itís been playing out for over a year now. AD trade speculation started last offseason and there were even whispers before that. NO has had SO much time to deal with this behind closed doors but they havenít, or gave a half assed effort, or just flat out didnít listen or know their own player. Thatís no fault of ADís. And going public like this is likely their last resort because of a year plus worth of failures of a poorly run organization. But somehow AD gets all the backlash???

ewing
06-13-2019, 12:13 PM
Exactly. And whatís lost in all of this, itís been playing out for over a year now. AD trade speculation started last offseason and there were even whispers before that. NO has had SO much time to deal with this behind closed doors but they havenít, or gave a half assed effort, or just flat out didnít listen or know their own player. Thatís no fault of ADís. And going public like this is likely their last resort because of a year plus worth of failures of a poorly run organization. But somehow AD gets all the backlash???

I could complain all day and stop showing up to work but they would stop paying me. AD is an entitled brat and should be suspended

warfelg
06-13-2019, 12:45 PM
Why is that a bad thing? Don't teams, and fans for that matter, have a right to know what they're getting themselves into? Frankly, going public is actually a good thing. It adds a layer of accountability to the whole affair. If a team trades for a player and he leaves, we've seen what kind of playbook they operate. They execute a bogus smear campaign, brand the player as disloyal, hurt his earning power and reputation and basically banish him from a city that he probably has some emotional attachment to. By going public, players are just being honest and telling their side of the story. They are saying "I am not going to stay here, you should know that now, and if you are dumb enough to trade for me/keep me, it's your own fault. I am not responsible for your bad decisions" Fans deserve to know who to blame when this **** goes sideways. Teams deserve time to plan. But most fans would rather just go on a witch hunt.

In context of what it means for the NBA its a bad thing to have all of this happening so open. Again with the statement on a smear campaign.....how does that pertain to going public about only wanting to be in certain places? What accountability comes from "If I'm traded to Boston, I'm hitting FA"? None. Most of what Rich Paul said has little to do with this whole statement.


It's so ****ing hypocritical. Look at how much **** LeBron got for apparently blindsiding the Cavs in 2010 and 2018. The first time he reached free agency, he waited until July 8th to make a decision and everyone lost their minds because he gave them no time to sign other players and build a backup plan. The issue last year was that they couldn't trade for other players not knowing what he was going to do. He did the exact opposite of going public... and got just as much **** for it.

This has nothing to do with a player under contract wanting out and wanting to only play for certain teams.


Let's just call this what it is. Fans have a slave owner mentality. They think players should act on the best interests of fans, not themselves. And that is utter ********. These are human beings who are allowed to seek whatever they want out of their careers. That can mean money, location, winning, anything, and they don't owe their teams ****. Going public is a goddamn courtesy. Players don't have to reveal their plans to anyone. But by doing so, they allow teams the tools to plan ahead and fans time to brace themselves.

WTF? There's no reason to bring that mentality into this at all. This isn't a courtesy that was never given before. Things like this were always done through backchannels. Never in the open to the extent the Rich Paul is doing it.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 12:47 PM
Exactly. And whatís lost in all of this, itís been playing out for over a year now. AD trade speculation started last offseason and there were even whispers before that. NO has had SO much time to deal with this behind closed doors but they havenít, or gave a half assed effort, or just flat out didnít listen or know their own player. Thatís no fault of ADís. And going public like this is likely their last resort because of a year plus worth of failures of a poorly run organization. But somehow AD gets all the backlash???

You keep stating this like that's the issue I have with it. Continuing on that is such BS.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 01:02 PM
I could complain all day and stop showing up to work but they would stop paying me. AD is an entitled brat and should be suspended

The exact same is true from AD. So whatís your point?

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 01:04 PM
In context of what it means for the NBA its a bad thing to have all of this happening so open. Again with the statement on a smear campaign.....how does that pertain to going public about only wanting to be in certain places? What accountability comes from "If I'm traded to Boston, I'm hitting FA"? None. Most of what Rich Paul said has little to do with this whole statement.



This has nothing to do with a player under contract wanting out and wanting to only play for certain teams.



WTF? There's no reason to bring that mentality into this at all. This isn't a courtesy that was never given before. Things like this were always done through backchannels. Never in the open to the extent the Rich Paul is doing it.

There you go again with the false narratives. RP said heís going to FA with ANY team not just Boston. So itís true for LAL too. Even if heís traded to LAL heís still going to hit Freebie Agency.

It does not matter if itís done in the open. On a loud speaker. Through back channels. If itís public knowledge and the results are the same - what difference does it make?

warfelg
06-13-2019, 01:12 PM
There you go again with the false narratives. RP said heís going to FA with ANY team not just Boston. So itís true for LAL too. Even if heís traded to LAL heís still going to hit Freebie Agency.

It does not matter if itís done in the open. On a loud speaker. Through back channels. If itís public knowledge and the results are the same - what difference does it make?

Yea he's going to FA because he's stupid not to. Signing an extension before FA costs him $30mil. That's an NBA problem.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 01:22 PM
Yea he's going to FA because he's stupid not to. Signing an extension before FA costs him $30mil. That's an NBA problem.

How is that an NBA problem?

ewing
06-13-2019, 01:23 PM
There you go again with the false narratives. RP said heís going to FA with ANY team not just Boston. So itís true for LAL too. Even if heís traded to LAL heís still going to hit Freebie Agency.

It does not matter if itís done in the open. On a loud speaker. Through back channels. If itís public knowledge and the results are the same - what difference does it make?

Sorry wrong post


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

warfelg
06-13-2019, 01:34 PM
How is that an NBA problem?

It discourages players from committing to a team by making the contract dependent on a percent of the cap the year it's signed. And that's CBA negotiated. No matter where AD goes he's going to play out the year because by waiting 1 year his Max contract massively jumps over getting traded and extending.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 01:51 PM
It discourages players from committing to a team by making the contract dependent on a percent of the cap the year it's signed. And that's CBA negotiated. No matter where AD goes he's going to play out the year because by waiting 1 year his Max contract massively jumps over getting traded and extending.

Yeah but whatís the difference? Whether he gets traded to LAL or NYK with an extension in hand or if he verbally commits, hits FA and then signs a contract the end result is the same. Itís not discouraging anything if the team and player are in agreement on staying. Which they would have to be for an extension anyways.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 02:23 PM
Yeah but whatís the difference? Whether he gets traded to LAL or NYK with an extension in hand or if he verbally commits, hits FA and then signs a contract the end result is the same. Itís not discouraging anything if the team and player are in agreement on staying. Which they would have to be for an extension anyways.

That commentary isn't on this situation alone, just the NBA in general. Like if it made financial sense for Lillard, do you think Portland would hesitate in offering him an extension right now? But it doesn't make financial sense. It's partially what makes teams operate the way they do.

And I think it can make a difference if an extension can be signed now. Gives the teams that don't have the player and he won't sign an extension as part of the trade as a reason to pay less. Give the ability for the team with the players rights to ask for more when they know he would give up money by just waiting for FA.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2019, 02:51 PM
That commentary isn't on this situation alone, just the NBA in general. Like if it made financial sense for Lillard, do you think Portland would hesitate in offering him an extension right now? But it doesn't make financial sense. It's partially what makes teams operate the way they do.

And I think it can make a difference if an extension can be signed now. Gives the teams that don't have the player and he won't sign an extension as part of the trade as a reason to pay less. Give the ability for the team with the players rights to ask for more when they know he would give up money by just waiting for FA.

So Portland offers Lillard a massive 5 year extension a year or 2 early. Then he gets hurt and is still on the hook for the next 5 years for 30+% of the teams cap. This is why the NBA made it this way because teams were handing out money to far in the future and it hurts the franchises for years. Which is bad for the NBA. Keeping contracts shorter limits liability and if mistakes are made, itís a shorter turnaround to recover from them which = a more competitive league. So they make it less attractive for the player so it doesnít happen. Youíre only thinking of this from 1 angle not all sides. You think itís bad but itís actually doing a lot of good for the NBA as a whole.

Quinnsanity
06-13-2019, 03:03 PM
In context of what it means for the NBA its a bad thing to have all of this happening so open. Again with the statement on a smear campaign.....how does that pertain to going public about only wanting to be in certain places? What accountability comes from "If I'm traded to Boston, I'm hitting FA"? None. Most of what Rich Paul said has little to do with this whole statement.



This has nothing to do with a player under contract wanting out and wanting to only play for certain teams.



WTF? There's no reason to bring that mentality into this at all. This isn't a courtesy that was never given before. Things like this were always done through backchannels. Never in the open to the extent the Rich Paul is doing it.

I don't understand why you're clutching your pearls at the notion of information becoming public. Frankly, it's great for the league. The drama of player movement has turned the NBA into a 12-month league. Fans enjoy the hell out of the speculation. What damage does going public really do? Offend the sensibilities of a few fans? I think the league will gladly make that trade. Frankly, there are far, far bigger problems that the league has to contend with than anything Rich Paul is responsible for. The biggest is something else that is going to happen this summer.

I think we can all agree that in most cases, historically speaking, star players leave their teams because of mistakes those teams made. Cleveland put ****** teams around LeBron. The Thunder never recovered from the Harden trade, and Durant left as a result. The list goes on and on. For most of history, when a small market handles a star the way that the Spurs handled Duncan, for instance, that team didn't lost that star. Most teams to lose superstars deserved to.

But look at this offseason. I think we can all agree that Boston, Toronto and Golden State are model organizations. There is a very real chance that all three lose star free agents this offseason for factors entirely beyond their control. Kawhi wanting to go home, Kyrie wanting a bigger market, KD being mad at Twitter trolls. These players are all well within their rights to do so. But if you want to talk about the real issue the league is facing, it's not players forcing trades out of small markets, at least in itself. Anthony Davis wants out of New Orleans because the Pelicans have sucked for most of his time there. The problem is superstars being unsatisfied with winning. Irving, Durant and Leonard are far, far bigger problems for the league.

I'm not suggesting that we should restrict their movements. If they want to go somewhere else, more power to them. But the real problem for small markets has nothing to do with powerful agents. It has everything to do with a broken incentive structure. Salaries are so huge right now that leaving money on the table is no longer enough to convince stars to remain with small market teams or even winning teams. So what the league needs to do is find a way to either incentivize remaining with your original team that goes beyond money, or give small-market teams different weapons in team-building.

I think there are ways to go about both. Maybe small market teams get a bigger salary cap, so big-market teams have a harder time uniting stars. Maybe original teams can make uncapped offers to their players. Or maybe you go the other way and say something like "if only big market teams can get star free agents, then maybe we need to earmark other methods of team-building exclusively for small-markets." Maybe, for instance, big-market teams only have first-round picks every other year as opposed to every year. That way, the draft would be reserved mostly for small-market teams.

I'm perfectly willing to admit that the league has a problem on its hands as far as players leaving small markets goes. What I will not abide is turning their representatives into boogeymen ruining the sport or painting players as ungrateful brats. If you can't see the slave-owner parallels of suggesting that a black athlete is somehow at fault for daring to take control of his career and life, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not saying that you, specifically, are doing that War. But you know damn well that other people in this thread are doing so, and it's the reaction that has been trained into them. We are trained to blame the people, and not the system. But the people are just doing what is in their best interest. They are completely allowed to do so. If we want them to act differently, we need to change the system so that it is in their best interest to act the way that we'd like them to.

Heediot
06-13-2019, 04:20 PM
Youíre deep down the rabbit hole now

Meh.

Going by his past behaviour and intuition. LeBron is willing to go to extremes to get what he wants. He's an extreme opportunist and is willing to be shady and manipulative to meet his objectives.

I am going by his character and circumstantial evidence.

In real life, 99 percent of people aren't waiting for clear cut evidence all the time. You treat people and deal with people based on your observations and past behaviour as well. This is why I don't trust the dude and basing my beahvior on as I would do in real life.

Heediot
06-13-2019, 04:30 PM
I dont know about this slave owner mentality. People are just naturally drawn to people who are loyal, honorable and try to create harmony. IT's more about human nature vs. the athlete.

If your a game of thrones fan, theres a reason why the audience will more then likely cheer on a guy like Jon Snow. He does the right thing and isn't too self interested. I dont think it's about race personally. There should be a balance between personal ambition and creating harmony and great relationships. I think LeBron falls on the scale of closer to cersei vs. JOn snow. A guy like PG seems to be more like Sansa or some ish, lmao.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 05:14 PM
What I will not abide is turning their representatives into boogeymen ruining the sport or painting players as ungrateful brats. If you can't see the slave-owner parallels of suggesting that a black athlete is somehow at fault for daring to take control of his career and life, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not saying that you, specifically, are doing that War. But you know damn well that other people in this thread are doing so, and it's the reaction that has been trained into them.

Woah woah woah. I don't see anyone doing this or saying he's ungrateful. I think almost anyone is ok with the notion that NO didn't do the best they can around AD.

I'm not saying he shouldn't take control. That's perfectly fine. What I'm not ok with is his agent doing an interview and going public with everything. If we hate Teams 'controlling the narrative' we shouldn't be rune with players doing it either if we want to talk about 'the same both ways'.

Quinnsanity
06-13-2019, 06:22 PM
Woah woah woah. I don't see anyone doing this or saying he's ungrateful. I think almost anyone is ok with the notion that NO didn't do the best they can around AD.

I'm not saying he shouldn't take control. That's perfectly fine. What I'm not ok with is his agent doing an interview and going public with everything. If we hate Teams 'controlling the narrative' we shouldn't be rune with players doing it either if we want to talk about 'the same both ways'.


I could complain all day and stop showing up to work but they would stop paying me. AD is an entitled brat and should be suspended

I see this kind of **** all of the damn time. There is a genuine belief among a meaningful segment of sports fans that essentially act as if a player belongs to a city or team. The outrage over Davis asking for a trade 1.5 years away from free agency in itself has been enormous. Nevermind the fact that Davis never once said "I am sitting out until I get traded." He never said he wouldn't fulfill his contractual obligation. So far as I know, no player has ever done that. That's what I mean when I call it a courtesy. He is informing the team of his choice well before he needs to, and he is informing the fan base as well so that the team can't lie to them after the fact.

That is the difference. When teams control the message, they act with the benefit of hindsight. Think about Dan Gilbert's letter. Can you imagine him being that disrespectful to LeBron even 24 hours earlier, when there was still a chance of him staying? Of course not. That's a lot of where the attitude comes from. We love you while you're here, we'll burn you once you're gone. When players control the messaging, they are typically doing so preemptively. They don't get to go on the smear campaign because they still need the team to cooperate in trading him. Davis has not ever said "I want to leave the Pelicans because they are a terrible organization that will never win anything." He's simply said "I am going to leave the team, so it would be in your best interest to trade me now." It is in most cases a statement of fact, not a spin. Fans and media create the storylines around it. Go back and read Rich Paul's interview. He doesn't insult the Pelicans. He simply says "this is what is happening."

But more to the point, what would you prefer? Would you prefer to just not hear from any of these people? Part of the appeal of the NBA is the accessibility. We love these players because we know them. We aren't separated by helmets like we are in football or by the draconian "personality is bad" attitudes that pervade both football and baseball. The fact that these guys are willing to let us into their thinking as much as they do is one of the best things about basketball.

So I guess I just don't understand what you find so offensive about this whole thing. What is actually wrong with Rich Paul giving an interview and telling the world what his client wants? Because from where I'm sitting, it just looks like people don't like Davis, don't like LeBron, and don't like the idea of athletes acting for themselves instead of the nebulous concept of "the league." Everything else stems out of that. I find it selfish at best and racist at worst. Paul is simply acting on behalf of his clients. He is doing what he believes is best for their careers and is doing so with their consent. I'm sorry that he's doing so in a way that looks unfamiliar to you and most sports fans. But this sport has far bigger systemic problems than players using their representatives to communicate their desires to the public.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 07:29 PM
I mean you said it right in your 5th monologue that has little to do with my issues with the situation. I donít like Rich Paul out in public telling teams what and what not to do. If he wants that power give up being an agent and become a GM. Until then donít speak on it publicly. AD is under contract and NO can trade him wherever they please. Heís trying to act like he has the power to prevent that. He doesnít. If LA doesnít want to offer what NO is asking for, and any other team does, RP should be celebrating his player is that valuable and telling companies thatís how valuable he is to market.

And if that does happen and LA doesnít keep the cap to sign them then thatís not NO fault. Itís not the fault of the team that traded for him. Itís the Lakers own fault. Look at the PG situation. I only blame LA for that. They didnít make an offer and sat back, and PG went somewhere and realized he loved that team and the city. Thatís not OKCs fault. Itís not weak minded PG. Itís LAL not doing what it took to make sure he got there. (Frankly part of it was Corey Brewer telling him how dysfunctional it was too)

Iím willing to bet that if the rumor never came out (I heard it was leaked by RP btw) that it was basically LAL or NYK at the deadline, AD would be a Laker right now. But because it came out, the Lakers have 0 incentive to negotiate in good faith. And neither does NO frankly because LAL feels like they hold the cards. Things like this, agents being public about not wishes but demands, does nothing but hurt the overall health of the league. This stuff doesnít actually help it. Weíre in the midst of the lowest rated playoffs in a long time. Is some of it lack of LeBron? Sure. He gets eyes on screens. But part of it was these players demanding to be teamed up that takes the intrigue out of the playoffs. And itís been on this slippery slop for a while now. Thatís why this stuff is bad. Why do you think the NFL is the most viewed professional sport? Every team has a chance. Every game matters. Fans connect with a team over a player because thereís so much movement. Teams have a chance to move on from players much more willingly. And other than new contract, so few players demand things in the nfl because of how fast the landscape changes.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 07:46 PM
I guess my question becomes we let RP keep making these public statements that effect player movement. Whereís the line?

Refusing to play? Majority of players taking QOís? Drafted players playing oversees until its new contract time and taking a 1 year deal? This is why Iím against allowing this to be so public. Whereís the line of ok and not ok?

crewfan13
06-13-2019, 10:12 PM
Initial list was LAL, one week later he added the other 3. Bos (incapable unless, Kyrie was traded) and Mil (not enough assets outside Greek, without destroying team depth) had no chance, and Knicks didn't have the assets. They even got the dad to ***** about Boston (IT's injury) to make them look even worse.

Everything was planned and strategized with mad collusion. You can always change your demands and stance in accordance to ho much resistance your demands are getting as proven by how the Pel's had the same feeling and played Klutch and Bron at the deadline.

It's not collusion. If AD wants to go to the Lakers it's not collusion. If AD and lebron sat down and said we want to play together, who cares. It happens all the time.

AD has the right to want to play in a certain spot. He has the right to do whatever he wants to get their. NO has the right to decide to not trade him their or to trade him where ever they want.

By all of your definitions, we should riot that KD took less money to play at GS. Any time players take less money we should riot too. They shouldnt be allowed to play where they want to play. I get AD is under contract. But what he's doing is not wrong or illegal or even immoral. He's stated where he wants to play and is trying to get there as soon as possible. Who cares if its with LeBron or anyone. If that's what AD wants them let him play it however he wants to play it.

IKnowHoops
06-13-2019, 10:13 PM
How often have we seen agents be as public about all these contracts and player movement as Rich Paul? That's what I don't like. I get that agents have long controlled things, but I can't recall a time where an agent was so open just outright saying "you're wasting assets". Having the preferred destinations isn't new, and frankly I'm ok with that. But Rich Paul has been open in saying what it is from the start and that's what got him in some hot water mid-season (when AD got fined $50K for Rich Pauls statements). I think that kinda backs up that we should have the right to be unhappy with the fact that RP is being so public about this situation.

Thatís the world we live in bro. Instagram wasnít around 15 years ago. Everything is more in your face. Get with the times or get left behind...in the world of big biz that is.

IKnowHoops
06-13-2019, 10:17 PM
I guess my question becomes we let RP keep making these public statements that effect player movement. Whereís the line?

Refusing to play? Majority of players taking QOís? Drafted players playing oversees until its new contract time and taking a 1 year deal? This is why Iím against allowing this to be so public. Whereís the line of ok and not ok?

There is no line for an agent and his player. No Jackson and John Elway forced moves harder than this over 30 years ago. I bet if Rich Paul was forcing ADís way to Philly, youíd be quiet, and you def would not being saying AD and Rich Paul need to stop being vocal about wanting to come to Philly.

warfelg
06-13-2019, 10:29 PM
There is no line for an agent and his player. No Jackson and John Elway forced moves harder than this over 30 years ago. I bet if Rich Paul was forcing ADís way to Philly, youíd be quiet, and you def would not being saying AD and Rich Paul need to stop being vocal about wanting to come to Philly.

I'd absolutely say the same thing. If we let agents start being this vocal here where do we stop it?

Heediot
06-14-2019, 01:24 AM
It's not collusion. If AD wants to go to the Lakers it's not collusion. If AD and lebron sat down and said we want to play together, who cares. It happens all the time.

AD has the right to want to play in a certain spot. He has the right to do whatever he wants to get their. NO has the right to decide to not trade him their or to trade him where ever they want.

By all of your definitions, we should riot that KD took less money to play at GS. Any time players take less money we should riot too. They shouldnt be allowed to play where they want to play. I get AD is under contract. But what he's doing is not wrong or illegal or even immoral. He's stated where he wants to play and is trying to get there as soon as possible. Who cares if its with LeBron or anyone. If that's what AD wants them let him play it however he wants to play it.
meh it is what it is, but im going to call a spade a space and a biotch a btioch!!

Heediot
06-14-2019, 01:33 AM
man **** that when i am sober, ill express my vieWS ON SOME BICH *** **** as i do.y'all trying hard to rep bron and some other sofT *** ******

formula101
06-14-2019, 03:10 AM
Fools be hatin. Rich Paul bout making dat paper foreal.

Oakmont_4
06-14-2019, 06:44 AM
I mean you said it right in your 5th monologue that has little to do with my issues with the situation. I donít like Rich Paul out in public telling teams what and what not to do. If he wants that power give up being an agent and become a GM. Until then donít speak on it publicly. AD is under contract and NO can trade him wherever they please. Heís trying to act like he has the power to prevent that. He doesnít. If LA doesnít want to offer what NO is asking for, and any other team does, RP should be celebrating his player is that valuable and telling companies thatís how valuable he is to market.

And if that does happen and LA doesnít keep the cap to sign them then thatís not NO fault. Itís not the fault of the team that traded for him. Itís the Lakers own fault. Look at the PG situation. I only blame LA for that. They didnít make an offer and sat back, and PG went somewhere and realized he loved that team and the city. Thatís not OKCs fault. Itís not weak minded PG. Itís LAL not doing what it took to make sure he got there. (Frankly part of it was Corey Brewer telling him how dysfunctional it was too)

Iím willing to bet that if the rumor never came out (I heard it was leaked by RP btw) that it was basically LAL or NYK at the deadline, AD would be a Laker right now. But because it came out, the Lakers have 0 incentive to negotiate in good faith. And neither does NO frankly because LAL feels like they hold the cards. Things like this, agents being public about not wishes but demands, does nothing but hurt the overall health of the league. This stuff doesnít actually help it. Weíre in the midst of the lowest rated playoffs in a long time. Is some of it lack of LeBron? Sure. He gets eyes on screens. But part of it was these players demanding to be teamed up that takes the intrigue out of the playoffs. And itís been on this slippery slop for a while now. Thatís why this stuff is bad. Why do you think the NFL is the most viewed professional sport? Every team has a chance. Every game matters. Fans connect with a team over a player because thereís so much movement. Teams have a chance to move on from players much more willingly. And other than new contract, so few players demand things in the nfl because of how fast the landscape changes.

The Lakers did negotiate in good faith. They made their entire roster available for AD at the deadline. Which since theyíve walked back and could be a huge mistake on the part of NO because they held a personal grudge instead of making a better business decision. Youíre worried about all the hypotheticals that simply havenít happened which is whatís weakening your argument.

Nothing negative has actually happened as a result of RPís comments. But youíre operating under the assumption they will.

And again, as a fan of a team, Iíd much rather know outright that hey, this guy doesnít want to play for us so we donít trade a future for someone who will leave. Rather than going in blind. And I donít want it to play out behind closed doors either.

If RP told Danny Ainge behind closed doors that AD would never resign here so donít bother but that never came out to us - our fan base would be incorrectly angry at Ainge for not making a move without knowing the real story. Why is that better? Good GMs can get fired unjustly for this scenario because the fans think theyíre not doing their jobs competently when they really are.

The truth is better. Just be real. Which RP is being. I canít stand him. But that I canít hold against him

Quinnsanity
06-14-2019, 08:43 AM
I guess my question becomes we let RP keep making these public statements that effect player movement. Whereís the line?

Refusing to play? Majority of players taking QOís? Drafted players playing oversees until its new contract time and taking a 1 year deal? This is why Iím against allowing this to be so public. Whereís the line of ok and not ok?

Rich Paul has never once suggested that his players would refuse to play if not traded. There is nothing wrong with players taking Qualifying Offers, that is their prerogative, and frankly I think they should've been doing it for years. Very few prospects can feel secure enough in their earning power to circumvent the rookie scale by staying abroad, and if they do, it is because of their own ability, not Rich Paul's influence.

You're basically saying "Rich Paul going public could lead to all of these scary things!" Well... it never has... and you have no evidence to suggest that it will. It seriously feels like you're just attached to a status quo that doesn't need to exist. Explain WHY going public would lead to anything bad. It kind of just seems like Rich Paul is doing something that offends your sensibilities personally, not that he's doing anything that is actually destructive.

crewfan13
06-14-2019, 09:57 AM
Rich Paul has never once suggested that his players would refuse to play if not traded. There is nothing wrong with players taking Qualifying Offers, that is their prerogative, and frankly I think they should've been doing it for years. Very few prospects can feel secure enough in their earning power to circumvent the rookie scale by staying abroad, and if they do, it is because of their own ability, not Rich Paul's influence.

You're basically saying "Rich Paul going public could lead to all of these scary things!" Well... it never has... and you have no evidence to suggest that it will. It seriously feels like you're just attached to a status quo that doesn't need to exist. Explain WHY going public would lead to anything bad. It kind of just seems like Rich Paul is doing something that offends your sensibilities personally, not that he's doing anything that is actually destructive.

It's all because it's rich Paul and lebron. People will argue and say no it isn't, but it is. This wouldn't be a discussion if his agent was Bob Smith and he was saying he only would sign a long term extension in Utah.

Cuz I agree. All rich Paul is doing by going public is controlling the narrative. If AD was traded to Boston and only told Boston he wasn't going to resign, Boston could spin the narrative next year and say he never told us he wouldn't resign. We thought we at least had a chance to bring him back. This allows AD to at least partially control the narrative. If Boston trades for him, everyone knows up front that he intends on leaving after the season. There's nothing wrong with that.

warfelg
06-14-2019, 10:04 AM
I had the same issue last year with Uncle Dennis :shrug: Agents speaking publicly about a players plans when they are still under contract rubs me the complete wrong thing and I think it's an issue for the NBA if they keep on letting it happen. Thats my opinion. Get over it.

Quinnsanity
06-14-2019, 10:16 AM
I had the same issue last year with Uncle Dennis :shrug: Agents speaking publicly about a players plans when they are still under contract rubs me the complete wrong thing and I think it's an issue for the NBA if they keep on letting it happen. Thats my opinion. Get over it.

As long as you admit that it's just your opinion and not some toxic entity enveloping the league, fine. If it just rubs you the wrong way personally, there's nothing wrong with that. But the title of this thread is "the NBA needs to limit the power of Rich Paul." Offending people's sensibilities is not a reason to limit someone's power. What Paul does can bother you. But in the context of a discussion about Paul supposedly ruining the league, the difference has to be pointed out.

crewfan13
06-14-2019, 10:20 AM
As long as you admit that it's just your opinion and not some toxic entity enveloping the league, fine. If it just rubs you the wrong way personally, there's nothing wrong with that. But the title of this thread is "the NBA needs to limit the power of Rich Paul." Offending people's sensibilities is not a reason to limit someone's power. What Paul does can bother you. But in the context of a discussion about Paul supposedly ruining the league, the difference has to be pointed out.

This is 100% right. Guy does something that annoys me, so the league should change rules so that a guy can't do something I don't like.

warfelg
06-14-2019, 10:38 AM
As long as you admit that it's just your opinion and not some toxic entity enveloping the league, fine. If it just rubs you the wrong way personally, there's nothing wrong with that. But the title of this thread is "the NBA needs to limit the power of Rich Paul." Offending people's sensibilities is not a reason to limit someone's power. What Paul does can bother you. But in the context of a discussion about Paul supposedly ruining the league, the difference has to be pointed out.

Iím not the one that created the thread....

I just have the opinion that itís a potentially toxic thing for the NBA the further and further down the road we let these Agents be so public about player movement. Rich Paul, IMO, is the worst offender of it.

Like my opinion is thereís only so many good GMs to go around. Itís easier said than done to point out ďhave a better FO and players wonít leave.Ē It never works that way. Thereís always some good team that suffers horrible breaks and maybe has 1 bad contract. But it starts a cycle of player after player wanting out, not being able to get FAs without overspending.

My honest opinion is if we want to be this ok with players wanting open movement even when under contract like this then letís contract 4 teams. 2 east, 2 west. Get rid of Charlotte, Orlando, New Orleans, Memphis. 60 players out there. About what....15 high quality players available. Now you got more quality NBA teams. At least then when a player requests a trade they donít need ďfake reasonsĒ for picking a team.

I just go back to my simple explanation:
No one forced them to sign the contract they have. People may of ripped KD and LBJ for taking 1+1ís; but at least they never put themselves in a position to force a trade. Like I said, get a full NTC or partial NTC, get the absurd trade kicker thatís autowaived for certain teams, sign shorter deals. I feel like then as a player you have greater control. Force the owners hands in the next CBA. And this shouldnít be a shock. Iím saying the same thing for football players. Sign 1-2 year deals fully guaranteed. Keep hitting the market. Force the owners to change the CBA. Baseball players are finally doing it. Waiting out FA. Taking 1 year deals. Waiting for the stupid draft compensation period to end. Now in the next CBA the owners have to react to players moves.

crewfan13
06-14-2019, 11:38 AM
Iím not the one that created the thread....

I just have the opinion that itís a potentially toxic thing for the NBA the further and further down the road we let these Agents be so public about player movement. Rich Paul, IMO, is the worst offender of it.

Like my opinion is thereís only so many good GMs to go around. Itís easier said than done to point out ďhave a better FO and players wonít leave.Ē It never works that way. Thereís always some good team that suffers horrible breaks and maybe has 1 bad contract. But it starts a cycle of player after player wanting out, not being able to get FAs without overspending.

My honest opinion is if we want to be this ok with players wanting open movement even when under contract like this then letís contract 4 teams. 2 east, 2 west. Get rid of Charlotte, Orlando, New Orleans, Memphis. 60 players out there. About what....15 high quality players available. Now you got more quality NBA teams. At least then when a player requests a trade they donít need ďfake reasonsĒ for picking a team.

I just go back to my simple explanation:
No one forced them to sign the contract they have. People may of ripped KD and LBJ for taking 1+1ís; but at least they never put themselves in a position to force a trade. Like I said, get a full NTC or partial NTC, get the absurd trade kicker thatís autowaived for certain teams, sign shorter deals. I feel like then as a player you have greater control. Force the owners hands in the next CBA. And this shouldnít be a shock. Iím saying the same thing for football players. Sign 1-2 year deals fully guaranteed. Keep hitting the market. Force the owners to change the CBA. Baseball players are finally doing it. Waiting out FA. Taking 1 year deals. Waiting for the stupid draft compensation period to end. Now in the next CBA the owners have to react to players moves.

AD isn't forcing any trade. Ad has never indicated he isn't going to play out his contract. He requested a trade and has been open about where he wants to go and where he may be willing to sign long term. What's wring with that. NO was just as compliant I'm him getting extra rest days. At that point they wanted to suck and didn't want to risk injury to their best trade asset.

And signing 1+1s and things like that are great until you suffer an injury. So that's why you sign long term deals. And AD doesn't need a no trade clause. Has he ever indicated he would rather play next year in NO instead of Boston? As far as I know, he hasn't. All hes said is, via his agent, that he'd be a one year rental in Boston. It's all an attempt to get to where he wants to go.

And that's why I don't think it's a problem. Unless I missed it, he's never once refused to play. He's simply trying to get himself to the place he wants to me. I don't get why that's a problem. You'd rather have that play out behind the scenes. That's fine, but having it play out in public shows his hand for all to see.

warfelg
06-14-2019, 11:43 AM
You'd rather have that play out behind the scenes. That's fine, but having it play out in public shows his hand for all to see.

What's the benefits to anyone other than AD for it playing out in public?

ewing
06-14-2019, 12:29 PM
Never tell anyone outside the family what you are thinking.

28 mil for the year ins't enough to follow that simple ****ing rule?

Quinnsanity
06-14-2019, 01:44 PM
Never tell anyone outside the family what you are thinking.

28 mil for the year ins't enough to follow that simple ****ing rule?


Iím not the one that created the thread....

I just have the opinion that itís a potentially toxic thing for the NBA the further and further down the road we let these Agents be so public about player movement. Rich Paul, IMO, is the worst offender of it.

Like my opinion is thereís only so many good GMs to go around. Itís easier said than done to point out ďhave a better FO and players wonít leave.Ē It never works that way. Thereís always some good team that suffers horrible breaks and maybe has 1 bad contract. But it starts a cycle of player after player wanting out, not being able to get FAs without overspending.

My honest opinion is if we want to be this ok with players wanting open movement even when under contract like this then letís contract 4 teams. 2 east, 2 west. Get rid of Charlotte, Orlando, New Orleans, Memphis. 60 players out there. About what....15 high quality players available. Now you got more quality NBA teams. At least then when a player requests a trade they donít need ďfake reasonsĒ for picking a team.

I just go back to my simple explanation:
No one forced them to sign the contract they have. People may of ripped KD and LBJ for taking 1+1ís; but at least they never put themselves in a position to force a trade. Like I said, get a full NTC or partial NTC, get the absurd trade kicker thatís autowaived for certain teams, sign shorter deals. I feel like then as a player you have greater control. Force the owners hands in the next CBA. And this shouldnít be a shock. Iím saying the same thing for football players. Sign 1-2 year deals fully guaranteed. Keep hitting the market. Force the owners to change the CBA. Baseball players are finally doing it. Waiting out FA. Taking 1 year deals. Waiting for the stupid draft compensation period to end. Now in the next CBA the owners have to react to players moves.

No one forced him to sign the contract in the sense that nobody held a gun to his head and made him sign it. They only created conditions in which he had no other choice. First-round picks are tied to their original teams for five years no matter what they want. That jumps to seven if they want financial security after three seasons. That's the other thing here. The NBA has internal mechanisms designed to prevent player movement. It is not a free market. He may not have been forced to sign that contract, but he didn't have any other practical choice. He wasn't allowed to negotiate with anyone else.

warfelg
06-14-2019, 01:49 PM
No one forced him to sign the contract in the sense that nobody held a gun to his head and made him sign it. They only created conditions in which he had no other choice. First-round picks are tied to their original teams for five years no matter what they want. That jumps to seven if they want financial security after three seasons. That's the other thing here. The NBA has internal mechanisms designed to prevent player movement. It is not a free market. He may not have been forced to sign that contract, but he didn't have any other practical choice. He wasn't allowed to negotiate with anyone else.

Then do away with the draft and a cap and see how boring it becomes. :shrug:

ewing
06-14-2019, 01:50 PM
No one forced him to sign the contract in the sense that nobody held a gun to his head and made him sign it. They only created conditions in which he had no other choice. First-round picks are tied to their original teams for five years no matter what they want. That jumps to seven if they want financial security after three seasons. That's the other thing here. The NBA has internal mechanisms designed to prevent player movement. It is not a free market. He may not have been forced to sign that contract, but he didn't have any other practical choice. He wasn't allowed to negotiate with anyone else.

After 3 years he had career earning exceeding 15 millions dollars. Your nuts

Quinnsanity
06-14-2019, 01:51 PM
After 3 years he had career earning exceeding 15 millions dollars. Your nuts

Oh, so you're one of those "athletes should shut up and do what they're told because they make more money than the rest of us" idiots. Okay cool. Good to know you aren't worth engaging with.

warfelg
06-14-2019, 02:07 PM
Oh, so you're one of those "athletes should shut up and do what they're told because they make more money than the rest of us" idiots. Okay cool. Good to know you aren't worth engaging with.

No I think the point heís making is $15mil is financial security.

ewing
06-14-2019, 02:41 PM
Oh, so you're one of those "athletes should shut up and do what they're told because they make more money than the rest of us" idiots. Okay cool. Good to know you aren't worth engaging with.

Read your own post about him being under control after his rookie deal if he wants ďfinancial securityĒ. He didnít need to do anything for financial security. He had that

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Quinnsanity
06-14-2019, 04:21 PM
No I think the point heís making is $15mil is financial security.

He's the same person who posted this


I could complain all day and stop showing up to work but they would stop paying me. AD is an entitled brat and should be suspended

So yea, I'm not gonna take him seriously. I'll amend the statement to relative financial security, in that if he wanted to get away, he would have been risking hundreds of millions of dollars that would have been his in a truly free market. Even if he was never going to be poor, he would have had to have risked his enormous future earning power. That's not a choice any of us have to make. If we want to leave for a different job, we can just do it.

ewing
06-14-2019, 06:30 PM
Iím a fool! I donít think AD has an inalienable right to a totally free labor market!


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Oakmont_4
06-15-2019, 05:59 AM
Iím a fool! I donít think AD has an inalienable right to a totally free labor market!


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He doesnít and nobody is saying he does. But he does have an inalienable right to speak his preferences/plans out loud or have his agent do it on his behalf. He WILL have a free labor market in 2020 and he can talk all he wants about leaving NO, if thatís his preference.

ewing
06-15-2019, 08:44 AM
He doesnít and nobody is saying he does. But he does have an inalienable right to speak his preferences/plans out loud or have his agent do it on his behalf. He WILL have a free labor market in 2020 and he can talk all he wants about leaving NO, if thatís his preference.

Quinn seems to think he does. Your point his different but disagree with your point as well. AD public conduct is clearly detrimental to the team both on floor and in terms of his asset value. I donít think he should allowed to intentionally speak in ways that hurt the team anymore then he should be allow to trash Nike while under contract with them. I could see if NO did not try to win but they did. They might not of done a good job but they held up their end the the bargain. AD should expected to do the same.


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warfelg
06-15-2019, 08:57 AM
I do agree with the mindset that AD doesnít owe NO anything in terms of getting them max value. But thatís what the NBA should be doing and what Adam Silver should be doing. He should be protecting NOís and the Leagues best interests by ensuring NO can get max value. Silver is on record of saying that the NBA is the healthiest and the best when there are smaller markets pulling in. NY/LA....you can always count on big viewer numbers from them, you canít from the NO/Char/Mem of the league. And when they are up, more people in those markets watch, and thatís what pulls value. So protect the interests of those teams by limiting the players ability to sabotage their own value, and the league (and by extension its players) can make more money.

ewing
06-15-2019, 09:40 AM
I do agree with the mindset that AD doesnít owe NO anything in terms of getting them max value. But thatís what the NBA should be doing and what Adam Silver should be doing. He should be protecting NOís and the Leagues best interests by ensuring NO can get max value. Silver is on record of saying that the NBA is the healthiest and the best when there are smaller markets pulling in. NY/LA....you can always count on big viewer numbers from them, you canít from the NO/Char/Mem of the league. And when they are up, more people in those markets watch, and thatís what pulls value. So protect the interests of those teams by limiting the players ability to sabotage their own value, and the league (and by extension its players) can make more money.

I don't think he should be expected to try and help them get max value but I do think it is reasonable to expect not publicly hurt his value.

Oakmont_4
06-15-2019, 09:42 AM
Quinn seems to think he does. Your point his different but disagree with your point as well. AD public conduct is clearly detrimental to the team both on floor and in terms of his asset value. I donít think he should allowed to intentionally speak in ways that hurt the team anymore then he should be allow to trash Nike while under contract with them. I could see if NO did not try to win but they did. They might not of done a good job but they held up their end the the bargain. AD should expected to do the same.


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In what way do NO try to win? By letting Rondo walk despite him publicly saying he wanted to stay? By letting Cousins leave despite Davis stating he wanted him back? By signing Elfrid Payton and Ian Clark?

I mean what moves were supposed to build and compliment AD and convince him to stay? I get that Cousins was injured but if AD says sign him, and youíre trying to convince him to stay - you sign the guys he wants. Then if he does leave you can sit there and say - well we did everything we could.

They didnít. So no they didnít hold up their end of the bargain.

warfelg
06-15-2019, 09:49 AM
In what way do NO try to win? By letting Rondo walk despite him publicly saying he wanted to stay? By letting Cousins leave despite Davis stating he wanted him back? By signing Elfrid Payton and Ian Clark?

I mean what moves were supposed to build and compliment AD and convince him to stay? I get that Cousins was injured but if AD says sign him, and youíre trying to convince him to stay - you sign the guys he wants. Then if he does leave you can sit there and say - well we did everything we could.

They didnít. So no they didnít hold up their end of the bargain.

To be fair: the Pelicans did try to keep Boogie and kept a 3/$36mil deal on the table after the Achilles injury and he said no.

Oakmont_4
06-15-2019, 09:56 AM
To be fair: the Pelicans did try to keep Boogie and kept a 3/$36mil deal on the table after the Achilles injury and he said no.

Yeah thatís not going to get it done. Thatís a lowball offer and they knew it. They tried getting him at a bargain because of the injury. Which I donít blame them for. But when your star is already frustrated at the direction of the team and heís telling you to sign this guy. You sign that guy. And if you donít, thatís fine - but you donít get to say we did everything we could to keep him here.

I have no issues with NO not paying Cousins. What I have an issue with is the poster saying they did everything they could to keep him and upheld their end when thatís blatantly not true. AD wanted both Cousins and Rondo back and they let them both walk. Thatís not how you listen to your star players.

The reverse of it is LeBron and CLE where they handed out bad contracts at the direction of LeBron. Which they later got stuck with. But they can atleast say - we did everything Bron wanted and he still left.

Thereís no right or wrong by either NBA team. Whatís wrong is the poster stating what he did

warfelg
06-15-2019, 10:00 AM
Yeah thatís not going to get it done. Thatís a lowball offer and they knew it. They tried getting him at a bargain because of the injury. Which I donít blame them for. But when your star is already frustrated at the direction of the team and heís telling you to sign this guy. You sign that guy. And if you donít, thatís fine - but you donít get to say we did everything we could to keep him here.

I have no issues with NO not paying Cousins. What I have an issue with is the poster saying they did everything they could to keep him and upheld their end when thatís blatantly not true. AD wanted both Cousins and Rondo back and they let them both walk. Thatís not how you listen to your star players.

The reverse of it is LeBron and CLE where they handed out bad contracts at the direction of LeBron. Which they later got stuck with. But they can atleast say - we did everything Bron wanted and he still left.

Thereís no right or wrong by either NBA team. Whatís wrong is the poster stating what he did

Iím just saying. Be fair to them on the Boogie one. They tried, and when no one else even came close to that offer or even offering he ran off the the Warriors. I feel bad for Klay and KD....but Iím kinda glad Boogie didnít get rewarded for his move.

warfelg
06-15-2019, 10:04 AM
I trace back the issues to the year the cap exploded: sign Asik, sign Hill, sign Moore. A combined $40mil in cap. Not a single run at a max level player.

Oakmont_4
06-15-2019, 10:33 AM
It was a gamble by Boogie but the move made sense. He could lock himself in at an undervalued deal or gamble on himself for $10 mil less.

Had the gamble paid off and he stayed healthy he could have got a max this offseason and made $100m more. So to give up $10mil and possibly gain $100m is a worthy gamble.

Still hard to say he lost just yet too. All he has to get is a 2 year $30m deal which I wouldnít say is out of the question to match what NO offered.

Iím being fair. They offered him a low ball contract. Thereís no questioning that. They tried, yes. But itís not like they went over the top and did everything they could have. If they offered him a max or close to it and he turned it down and went to GS for the MLE Iíd give them
More credit there

ewing
06-15-2019, 10:39 AM
I trace back the issues to the year the cap exploded: sign Asik, sign Hill, sign Moore. A combined $40mil in cap. Not a single run at a max level player.

Bad moves for sure but still trying to win. I think that is all AD was owed. They spent, they traded young assets for Cousins, they went out and got Mtroic after Cousins went down. :shrug:

warfelg
06-15-2019, 10:40 AM
Iím not saying they went over the top. Just they tried. Remember it take two sides to make that work. The team offering the player and the player taking the deal. I pointed out the 3 players that they make the mistake on their end.

But Rondo, Boogie, Mirotic....I dunno. I canít 100% say itís only NOs fault on that.

smith&wesson
06-15-2019, 10:55 AM
The reality is no one wants to play for the Timberwolves, Pacers, Cavs, etc etc. NBA player are no different than you and I. Would you rather live in Utah or Miami? Indiana or L.A? Minnesota or Okland/Sanfran?

You couple that with the fact that large market teams have dominated the league since itís existence (L.A+Boston) and itís a no brainer, why not live in a city you prefer all while increasing your chances of winning and getting paid the same regardless...

LBJ drafted to Cleveland, what are the two cities he left his home town for ? Miami and L.A. ... and can you blame him what cities would you chose ??

ewing
06-15-2019, 10:57 AM
The reality is no one wants to play for the Timberwolves, Pacers, Cavs, etc etc. NBA player are no different than you and I. Would you rather live in Utah or Miami? Indiana or L.A? Minnesota or Okland/Sanfran?

You couple that with the fact that large market teams have dominated the league since itís existence (L.A+Boston) and itís a no brainer, why not live in a city you prefer all while increasing your chances of winning and getting paid the same regardless...

LBJ drafted to Cleveland, what are the two cities he left his home town for ? Miami and L.A. ... and can you blame him what cities would you chose ??

He allowed to choice whatever team he wants once he fulfills his contractual obligations.

IKnowHoops
06-15-2019, 11:01 AM
What's the benefits to anyone other than AD for it playing out in public?

What need is there for a player to make a move that benefits anyone other than himself? Havenít we learned that teams donít care about you personally. They only care about there bottom line and the players ability to make a jump shot. Your talking as if your an owner or a fan who deserves more from a player but you donít deserve a dang thing.

IKnowHoops
06-15-2019, 11:03 AM
After 3 years he had career earning exceeding 15 millions dollars. Your nuts

Your Lebron hate, this, it all comes from a place of jealousy. Dó- I d hate to have the jealousy gene: just mad at everyone whoís got more money...basically mad at every athlete😂😂😂😂

IKnowHoops
06-15-2019, 11:07 AM
No I think the point heís making is $15mil is financial security.

15 mil to AD doesnít mean the same as 15mil to you or me. Nobody is ever satisfied. Just as we all strive for our own lives exactly how we want them. So does he. Thereís levels to this ish. These guys look at Bill Gates the same way you look at them. Everyone is trying to multiply

IKnowHoops
06-15-2019, 11:09 AM
Quinn seems to think he does. Your point his different but disagree with your point as well. AD public conduct is clearly detrimental to the team both on floor and in terms of his asset value. I donít think he should allowed to intentionally speak in ways that hurt the team anymore then he should be allow to trash Nike while under contract with them. I could see if NO did not try to win but they did. They might not of done a good job but they held up their end the the bargain. AD should expected to do the same.


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Didnít NO take his name off of certain merchandising.

IKnowHoops
06-15-2019, 11:14 AM
Quinn seems to think he does. Your point his different but disagree with your point as well. AD public conduct is clearly detrimental to the team both on floor and in terms of his asset value. I donít think he should allowed to intentionally speak in ways that hurt the team anymore then he should be allow to trash Nike while under contract with them. I could see if NO did not try to win but they did. They might not of done a good job but they held up their end the the bargain. AD should expected to do the same.


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Didnít NO take his name off of certain merchandising. All he has to do is show up and play great basketball. And he does. Kobe voiced displeasure and wanted to be traded as well. Nothing wrong with voicing ur opinion.

crewfan13
06-15-2019, 11:28 AM
What's the benefits to anyone other than AD for it playing out in public?

It benefits AD. Paul is AD's agent. Why would it need to benefit anyone else?

crewfan13
06-15-2019, 11:38 AM
I do agree with the mindset that AD doesnít owe NO anything in terms of getting them max value. But thatís what the NBA should be doing and what Adam Silver should be doing. He should be protecting NOís and the Leagues best interests by ensuring NO can get max value. Silver is on record of saying that the NBA is the healthiest and the best when there are smaller markets pulling in. NY/LA....you can always count on big viewer numbers from them, you canít from the NO/Char/Mem of the league. And when they are up, more people in those markets watch, and thatís what pulls value. So protect the interests of those teams by limiting the players ability to sabotage their own value, and the league (and by extension its players) can make more money.

But whether it plays out publicly or not doesn't change that. Every team that would give up significant assets for AD would want to talk extension with him before they finalize the deal. So what do you want to happen? AD tells them at that point he won't sign? NO still isn't getting maximum value then. Or is AD just not allowed to ever say anything since he's under contract. So then a smallsr market liem sacremento can overpay and lose him?

So how is this really helping the best interest in the league or NO? And why does no one have an issue when this happens in reverse. No one threw a fit when porzingas asked out of New york. Did new York get maximum value back for porzingas?

Oakmont_4
06-15-2019, 11:40 AM
The reality is no one wants to play for the Timberwolves, Pacers, Cavs, etc etc. NBA player are no different than you and I. Would you rather live in Utah or Miami? Indiana or L.A? Minnesota or Okland/Sanfran?

You couple that with the fact that large market teams have dominated the league since itís existence (L.A+Boston) and itís a no brainer, why not live in a city you prefer all while increasing your chances of winning and getting paid the same regardless...

LBJ drafted to Cleveland, what are the two cities he left his home town for ? Miami and L.A. ... and can you blame him what cities would you chose ??

This is a false narrative. Thereís no correlation between large markets and success in the NBA. The correlation begins and ends with a good combination of ownership/FO, coach and players.

The NBA has essentially 6-8 large market teams. And really only 3 overshadow everyone

The top 3 being LA, CHI and NYK. The Knicks certainly havenít dominated the NBA. Chicago has a run with Jordan, outside of that they havenít done much. LAL clearly has but LAC has not.

After these 3, you have BOS, PHI and DAL. Boston had their time decades ago and then re emerged in the 80ís with Bird. Then went cold for 20 years before have a few years with PP, KG and Ray. PHI also had a period of time but they havenít consistently dominated and Dallas certainly hasnít either.

I would give Miami and GS honorable mentions due to recent success. Miami is a large media market but never had really drawn talent outside of LeBron and GS is obviously a product of recent success.

Nope. Media markets and cities have little to do with a players decision unless theyíve won a ton and want other opportunities (LeBron) or thereís no clear path to a contending team on a market value deal - then a player will head for a big market. But that doesnít equate to success necessarily.

KG loved playing in Minnesota until just before the end when he knew he wasnít going to win anything and that was all he had left to play for. Duncan stayed in SA because they won and had great management and coaching. Thereís countless examples of small market teams keeping their players for long tenures when theyíre fielding competitive teams and have solid management/coaching.

Where small markets go wrong and cripple themselves is being impatient. A constant rotating door of management and coaching. Investing big money in second tier Free Agents to try and appease their stars even though those attempts will never work. Itís just simply bad decision making. You make bad management decisions - your stars will leave. Thatís a guarantee and nobody should blame the player for the franchises failures.

smith&wesson
06-15-2019, 11:40 AM
He allowed to choice whatever team he wants once he fulfills his contractual obligations.

No doubt, but my post was generally speaking. The Anthony Davis situation has two sides to it for sure. From the teams perspective itís simple, full fill your contract. From his perspective itís not that simple. He wants to win, the team has failed to build a winner around him and he wants out.

I do think itís fair that he requested the trade ahead of time giving the Pelicans options. However with the way that it played out publicly didnít bode well for either side.

Again if he was in L.A or Miami would he even be asking for a trade ? Or just talking to to management about getting more talent ... just a thought.

crewfan13
06-15-2019, 11:48 AM
15 mil to AD doesnít mean the same as 15mil to you or me. Nobody is ever satisfied. Just as we all strive for our own lives exactly how we want them. So does he. Thereís levels to this ish. These guys look at Bill Gates the same way you look at them. Everyone is trying to multiply

It's not even about the money. It's about being fairly compensated for what you do. At the end of the day, AD and other star players drive insane amounts of revenue to their league and their team. Who cares what the total dollars are. Whether you make $12/hr or $350k/yr, if you find out you are making less then people who do the same job as you and you're better at that job, you're going to want more

smith&wesson
06-15-2019, 11:53 AM
This is a false narrative. Thereís no correlation between large markets and success in the NBA. The correlation begins and ends with a good combination of ownership/FO, coach and players.

The NBA has essentially 6-8 large market teams. And really only 3 overshadow everyone

The top 3 being LA, CHI and NYK. The Knicks certainly havenít dominated the NBA. Chicago has a run with Jordan, outside of that they havenít done much. LAL clearly has but LAC has not.

After these 3, you have BOS, PHI and DAL. Boston had their time decades ago and then re emerged in the 80ís with Bird. Then went cold for 20 years before have a few years with PP, KG and Ray. PHI also had a period of time but they havenít consistently dominated and Dallas certainly hasnít either.

I would give Miami and GS honorable mentions due to recent success. Miami is a large media market but never had really drawn talent outside of LeBron and GS is obviously a product of recent success.

Nope. Media markets and cities have little to do with a players decision unless theyíve won a ton and want other opportunities (LeBron) or thereís no clear path to a contending team on a market value deal - then a player will head for a big market. But that doesnít equate to success necessarily.

KG loved playing in Minnesota until just before the end when he knew he wasnít going to win anything and that was all he had left to play for. Duncan stayed in SA because they won and had great management and coaching. Thereís countless examples of small market teams keeping their players for long tenures when theyíre fielding competitive teams and have solid management/coaching.

Where small markets go wrong and cripple themselves is being impatient. A constant rotating door of management and coaching. Investing big money in second tier Free Agents to try and appease their stars even though those attempts will never work. Itís just simply bad decision making. You make bad management decisions - your stars will leave. Thatís a guarantee and nobody should blame the player for the franchises failures.

Great if all that is true, then Kawhi Leonard surely will stay in Toronto instead of going back to LA right ? :rolleyes:

Youíre not being entirely realistic if you donít think players want to live in certain cities over others. Itís just human nature. Of course there are other things that factor in but are you surprised that the biggest rumoured suitors for Irving are New York and L.A teams ? Same with Durant ? Klay? You donít hear that these guys are considering signing with the Nuggets, yet Denver is in perfect position to win, or Toronto for example. Instead they are considering the Knick, Nets, Warriors, Lakers & Clippers. Jimmy Butler is even considering Miami who is no where near contention.

ewing
06-15-2019, 01:00 PM
Didnít NO take his name off of certain merchandising.

Idk


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ewing
06-15-2019, 01:03 PM
Your Lebron hate, this, it all comes from a place of jealousy. Dó- I d hate to have the jealousy gene: just mad at everyone whoís got more money...basically mad at every athlete[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Am I jealous of his money? Sure. Thatís not why I think heís a douchebag though. There are plenty of athletes that seem cool. Him and LeBron are not among them


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ewing
06-15-2019, 01:17 PM
Whatís the point of contracts or free agency if you can decide you want out with 2 years left and pick the team you want to be traded to?


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crewfan13
06-15-2019, 01:43 PM
Whatís the point of contracts or free agency if you can decide you want out with 2 years left and pick the team you want to be traded to?


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But you don't get to do that. You can let the team know your intentions. But AD has jo power over who he's traded to. All he can do is try to steer himself to his ideal situation, but he still doesn't get to choose. Any team can outbid the Lakers and NO can trade them to that team. He's just saying that when he fulfills his contractual obligations, that he's likely leaving and heading for LA.

crewfan13
06-15-2019, 01:51 PM
Great if all that is true, then Kawhi Leonard surely will stay in Toronto instead of going back to LA right ? :rolleyes:

Youíre not being entirely realistic if you donít think players want to live in certain cities over others. Itís just human nature. Of course there are other things that factor in but are you surprised that the biggest rumoured suitors for Irving are New York and L.A teams ? Same with Durant ? Klay? You donít hear that these guys are considering signing with the Nuggets, yet Denver is in perfect position to win, or Toronto for example. Instead they are considering the Knick, Nets, Warriors, Lakers & Clippers. Jimmy Butler is even considering Miami who is no where near contention.

But what he said was basically entirely true. Small markets, especially lately, can retain their talent as long as talent is brought in and its a well run org. Golden state is generally a large media market but was no where near a free agent landing spot until they got good. The teams that have won lately haven't won because of market. Maybe you can argue for Miami, but to me that was more bosh, wade and lebron wanting to team up and Miami was one of the few places that could pull that off.

Outside of LeBron, what big name free agent has signed in LA, Chicago or New York recently? Maybe they'll be a big exodus to those cities this summer, but it's not a sure thing either.

And kawhi is a bit of a different situation too. If he goes to LA, he is market chasing to an extent. But that's also partially because that's home to him. It's not like he's also granting meetings with new York and other major markets. He's very likely LA or Toronto.

smith&wesson
06-15-2019, 03:17 PM
But what he said was basically entirely true. Small markets, especially lately, can retain their talent as long as talent is brought in and its a well run org. Golden state is generally a large media market but was no where near a free agent landing spot until they got good. The teams that have won lately haven't won because of market. Maybe you can argue for Miami, but to me that was more bosh, wade and lebron wanting to team up and Miami was one of the few places that could pull that off.

Outside of LeBron, what big name free agent has signed in LA, Chicago or New York recently? Maybe they'll be a big exodus to those cities this summer, but it's not a sure thing either.

And kawhi is a bit of a different situation too. If he goes to LA, he is market chasing to an extent. But that's also partially because that's home to him. It's not like he's also granting meetings with new York and other major markets. He's very likely LA or Toronto.

My argument is that there is always going to be cities that are more desirable than others. I donít think it necessarily has to do with market size at all. Toronto is one of the biggest markets and itís not perceived that way. Chicago is a huge market but itís not a desired free agent destination.

The fact is when given a choice you would have about 4-5 cities in your mind you would prefer to live in & play for. The situations those teams are in would sway you one way or another. For example a Lakers team with Kobe wasnít desirable as he was a star player at the end of his career and the Lakers were headed in rebuild mode. So sure for a duration of time the Lakers were not a hot free agency spot. But once their rebuild was set in motion and the team was ready to compete again they got the biggest fish there is in Lebron. And we know for a fact that heís gonna get better help this offseason.

If youíre a super star and you can pick the city you want to live in, get paid boat loads regardless, why in the world would you chose Minnesota. (No offence to anyone from there but itís just an example.)

I guess my point is you canít fault the players for pushing their way where they want to go. Imo itís human nature. You wanna win, you wanna get paid, and you wanna live somewhere nice. Thatís people in general.

ewing
06-15-2019, 03:52 PM
But you don't get to do that. You can let the team know your intentions. But AD has jo power over who he's traded to. All he can do is try to steer himself to his ideal situation, but he still doesn't get to choose. Any team can outbid the Lakers and NO can trade them to that team. He's just saying that when he fulfills his contractual obligations, that he's likely leaving and heading for LA.

Fair point


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Bostonjorge
06-15-2019, 05:30 PM
Teams donít want to be loyal to hurt players and players donít want to be loyal to broken teams. It goes both ways. Easy to see.

ewing
06-15-2019, 06:23 PM
A little dramatic


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Kevj77
06-15-2019, 07:31 PM
Star NBA players have been forcing trades and threatening to not sign extensions unless they are traded to the team of their choice long before Rich Paul was an agent and they'll be doing it after he's gone

Bostonjorge
06-15-2019, 09:54 PM
A little dramatic


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Needed to move the needle

Ball and Zion are a perfect match. Ball likes to pass and Zion likes to receive passes. Zion is going to have some real talent around him now.

smith&wesson
06-15-2019, 10:18 PM
Star NBA players have been forcing trades and threatening to not sign extensions unless they are traded to the team of their choice long before Rich Paul was an agent and they'll be doing it after he's gone

Yes

smith&wesson
06-15-2019, 10:18 PM
Needed to move the needle

Ball and Zion are a perfect match. Ball likes to pass and Zion likes to receive passes. Zion is going to have some real talent around him now.

Ingram was playing really nice before he got injured to.

smith&wesson
06-15-2019, 10:20 PM
I wonder if the Knicks pass on Barrett and the Pelicans land him. That would be dope. Zion, Barrett, Ball, Ingram & Jrue would be a nice little core

Heediot
06-16-2019, 05:16 AM
Star NBA players have been forcing trades and threatening to not sign extensions unless they are traded to the team of their choice long before Rich Paul was an agent and they'll be doing it after he's gone

True to some extent. But with the way the league and cba is structured, Guys are using leverage of the max-cap space to strong arm teas. It would be hard to force your way to join LeBron or KD if guys were taking a bigger chunk of the cap. AD himself would take up a big chunk as well. This gives teams more leverage. The max cap slots gives more leverage to certain teams if they can open up space, nice weather/big markets and well run teams.

Oakmont_4
06-16-2019, 10:46 AM
Great if all that is true, then Kawhi Leonard surely will stay in Toronto instead of going back to LA right ? :rolleyes:

Youíre not being entirely realistic if you donít think players want to live in certain cities over others. Itís just human nature. Of course there are other things that factor in but are you surprised that the biggest rumoured suitors for Irving are New York and L.A teams ? Same with Durant ? Klay? You donít hear that these guys are considering signing with the Nuggets, yet Denver is in perfect position to win, or Toronto for example. Instead they are considering the Knick, Nets, Warriors, Lakers & Clippers. Jimmy Butler is even considering Miami who is no where near contention.

You clearly have a limited understanding how the cap works. FA arent considering Denver because they donít have space to sign a MAX. Klay and Durant consider GS cause they can resign there - while no other FA can so other FA arenít considering GS.

What contenders have cap space? LAL, possibly BRK. Thatís my whole point. When guys canít sign with a contender - they look elsewhere and yeah thatís when a big market plays. But thatís it.

You clearly either didnít read my point or didnít comprehend it because you essentially remade my point here.

The best way to not worry about your players bolting for big markets. Treat them well and make smart decisions to build the team around them. Theyíll never look to leave if you do that.

Heediot
06-16-2019, 10:56 AM
The best way to not worry about your players bolting for big markets. Treat them well and make smart decisions to build the team around them. Theyíll never look to leave if you do that.

Thanks for a good Kawhi omen. Here's to Kyrie and Jimmy re-upping and not joining forces in BK. :cheers:

Oakmont_4
06-16-2019, 11:02 AM
Thanks for a good Kawhi omen. Here's to Kyrie and Jimmy re-upping and not joining forces in BK. :cheers:

Haha we donít want Kyrie back. I actually would love to see Kyrie and Butler fail miserably in BRK.

smith&wesson
06-16-2019, 12:39 PM
You clearly have a limited understanding how the cap works. FA arent considering Denver because they donít have space to sign a MAX. Klay and Durant consider GS cause they can resign there - while no other FA can so other FA arenít considering GS.

What contenders have cap space? LAL, possibly BRK. Thatís my whole point. When guys canít sign with a contender - they look elsewhere and yeah thatís when a big market plays. But thatís it.

You clearly either didnít read my point or didnít comprehend it because you essentially remade my point here.

The best way to not worry about your players bolting for big markets. Treat them well and make smart decisions to build the team around them. Theyíll never look to leave if you do that.

Maybe you didnít read my posts. My point was that the market size doesnít matter. Toronto is a big market, and we did treat Kawhi more then right. And even if he does stay here for another year or two eventually he will go to LA and thatís a far gone conclusion. But my point was that thereís always going to be cities that are more desirable to live in regardless of how they are treated or market size. That is simply human nature. Where would you prefer to live and play if you were a super star? Probably a short list of 5-6 cities. And the situation those teams are in would sway you one way or another.

SiteWolf
06-17-2019, 10:01 PM
Not every super star looks at the same things.....but for example, Minneapolis and Portland are regularly high on most liveable city lists and typically aren't strong FA destinations. Same with Seattle and they didn't even keep their team.