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View Full Version : Who was CLoser to the chip, last years Rockets vs 08-09 Rockets



Chronz
06-02-2019, 07:10 PM
yes that capital L was on purpose


so we all know last years talking point about the rockets winning it all if they had been healthy but a lesser known, less popular talking point came in 2009. that was the year tmac and yao FINALLY got that 3rd star in Ron Artest and had the requisite depth to win. They pushed the eventual champion Lakers to 7 games with no TMac and Yao out for half the series.

Who was closer to the chip?

mightybosstone
06-02-2019, 10:43 PM
Last year's team, without question. Seriously, it's not close. Last year's Rockets were one win away from the Finals and even without CP3, probably had the better team on paper than Cleveland. That 09 team had no Yao or McGrady had they beaten the Lakers, and their top scoring threats would have been Artest, Aaron freaking Brooks and rookie Luis Scola. And they would have had to beat a very good Denver team and then take out Dwight at his peak despite having no true starting center on the roster.

If Yao and Tracy had been healthy that season, this is a different conversation. That was Morey's first year as GM, and he took a team that had been notoriously thin in recent years and made them unbelievably deep in one offseason. If that team had been healthy, they might have been the best squad in the league on paper. But with no Tracy or Yao, there was zero chance they would have won the Finals. Yao going down was the end for them...

Heediot
06-02-2019, 10:57 PM
mbt, i think what he meant is if tmac and yao were healthy in that series and going forward deeper in 09.

i'm not so sure, playoffs are match-up based especially in the west during those years. can't recall too well how they matched up vs. the spurs, suns etc. back then.

mightybosstone
06-02-2019, 11:16 PM
mbt, i think what he meant is if tmac and yao were healthy in that series and going forward deeper in 09.

i'm not so sure, playoffs are match-up based especially in the west during those years. can't recall too well how they matched up vs. the spurs, suns etc. back then.

My answer is the same regardless, because you can never assume the health of your players. "Healthy Yao and T-Mac" was very short-lived, and by 08-09, that duo had already peaked. The reason that team was so strong was the supporting cast around those two. But you can't really compare that team to last year's Rockets. Last year's team was relatively healthy all the way up to Game 5. And unlike Yao and T-Mac, CP3 continues to play quality basketball after that season.

No matter how you look at it, last year's team was closer to winning it all. If you want to play "which team would have been better assuming 100% health, that's fine. But even that's tough to gauge, because McGrady was already a shadow of himself.

rhino17
06-03-2019, 08:28 PM
Last years team and its not close. If they somehow played head to head, I don't think it would even be a close series.

I loved that 08-09 team but they had no alpha. Tmac wasn't half the player Harden is and that is the biggest difference. Yao didnt have the mentality for that role, he was better as a #2. That team was gritty but flukey.

c.c.
06-03-2019, 11:38 PM
That 08-09 was one of my favorite teams! I agree they had no alpha but I think they could of knocked off the Nuggets and Magic.

I have imaginary memories of last years team and 08-09 team winning it all, all the time.

Yao adds a NBA championship to his basketball resumé.

T-Mac goes on his first deep playoff run and wins it all.

CP3 finally gets to the finals and wins.

Harden loses his own playoff choker label.

mightybosstone
06-04-2019, 09:31 AM
That 08-09 was one of my favorite teams! I agree they had no alpha but I think they could of knocked off the Nuggets and Magic.

I have imaginary memories of last years team and 08-09 team winning it all, all the time.

Yao adds a NBA championship to his basketball resumé.

T-Mac goes on his first deep playoff run and wins it all.

CP3 finally gets to the finals and wins.

Harden loses his own playoff choker label.

The Rockets have been a franchise of "what ifs" for the last decade, which is admittedly frustrating. At least we have the Astros... :sigh:

basch152
06-04-2019, 01:17 PM
The Rockets have been a franchise of "what ifs" for the last decade, which is admittedly frustrating. At least we have the Astros... :sigh:

they are no more of a what-if team than literally any other team in the NBA.

every team could've won 5 championships the lastv10 years IF they drafted the right players and signed the right free agents.

look at Detroit. what happens if they draft wade?

wade would've been a difference maker against the spurs in 05, the heat wouldnt be a problem in 06, and he probably would've led them back to titles in 07 and 08. you're talking about possibly 5 straight championships.

then do Bosh and lebron join Detroit in 2010? they get another 2-4 championships if so.

mightybosstone
06-04-2019, 01:26 PM
they are no more of a what-if team than literally any other team in the NBA.

every team could've won 5 championships the lastv10 years IF they drafted the right players and signed the right free agents.

look at Detroit. what happens if they draft wade?

wade would've been a difference maker against the spurs in 05, the heat wouldnt be a problem in 06, and he probably would've led them back to titles in 07 and 08. you're talking about possibly 5 straight championships.

then do Bosh and lebron join Detroit in 2010? they get another 2-4 championships if so.

OK, but the Rockets' "what ifs" go way beyond "What if we didn't suck as a franchise and actually drafted better?" They had two studs in what should have been their primes in T-Mac and Yao, and those guys could never seem to get healthy at the same time. Plus, by the time they actually got a competent GM (Morey started in 08-09) and finally built a great roster around them, that just happened to coincide with the season both guys really broke down and were never the same again.

And then last year, the obvious "what if" regarding Chris Paul's hamstring injury kinda speaks for itself. I mean, yeah, every team has some "what ifs," but the Rockets have had a ton of talent in the last 10-12 years and just haven't been able to stay healthy. That's a pretty big difference from "we bombed our draft picks."

Chronz
06-06-2019, 11:28 PM
Last year's team, without question. Seriously, it's not close. Last year's Rockets were one win away from the Finals and even without CP3,
I havent used this style of debate in awhile but i think you will be able to put the fragments together. Those Rockets were making the Finals if they get past the Lakers too, only they had less vital bodies available.


probably had the better team on paper than Cleveland.
I disagree but we both know who the true threat was for both.


That 09 team had no Yao or McGrady had they beaten the Lakers, and their top scoring threats would have been Artest, Aaron freaking Brooks and rookie Luis Scola. And they would have had to beat a very good Denver team and then take out Dwight at his peak despite having no true starting center on the roster.
You're prolly right with regards to making it thru the season but this is more of a what if situation, where both squads are healthy.



If Yao and Tracy had been healthy that season, this is a different conversation. That was Morey's first year as GM, and he took a team that had been notoriously thin in recent years and made them unbelievably deep in one offseason. If that team had been healthy, they might have been the best squad in the league on paper. But with no Tracy or Yao, there was zero chance they would have won the Finals. Yao going down was the end for them...
yes thats the convo im more interested in but both are valid. it was technically his first year but he had input in building the team sooner iIRC.

Chronz
06-06-2019, 11:28 PM
mbt, i think what he meant is if tmac and yao were healthy in that series and going forward deeper in 09.

i'm not so sure, playoffs are match-up based especially in the west during those years. can't recall too well how they matched up vs. the spurs, suns etc. back then.

Bingo, they sucked vs the Suns , played the Spurs well tho

Chronz
06-06-2019, 11:33 PM
Last years team and its not close. If they somehow played head to head, I don't think it would even be a close series.

I loved that 08-09 team but they had no alpha. Tmac wasn't half the player Harden is and that is the biggest difference. Yao didnt have the mentality for that role, he was better as a #2. That team was gritty but flukey.

I have to reluctantly agree but only because of said injuries, in the playoffs, Im not certain that version of Harden makes as big a difference as you imagine. IMO, neither team had an alpha in the truest sense of the word. And if anyone was an alpha, it was prolly Yao. He had a true scorers mentality, he didn't seek fouls the way Harden does. I remember him thanking JVG and Tmac for making him think that way, unfortunately his frame couldn't sustain his killer instinct but his skill level 1v1 was beyond reproach. Way better than the likes of Ewing for example. Tmac at that point was hindered but I dont think they needed him to be Harden, he was no longer the teams best player by this point but he was definitely a smarter basketball mind IMO and thats what you need from a number 2

Chronz
06-06-2019, 11:34 PM
they are no more of a what-if team than literally any other team in the NBA.

every team could've won 5 championships the lastv10 years IF they drafted the right players and signed the right free agents.

look at Detroit. what happens if they draft wade?

wade would've been a difference maker against the spurs in 05, the heat wouldnt be a problem in 06, and he probably would've led them back to titles in 07 and 08. you're talking about possibly 5 straight championships.

then do Bosh and lebron join Detroit in 2010? they get another 2-4 championships if so.

lol, wat.

post detroyed by mbt

Rivera
06-07-2019, 09:56 AM
damn that 08-09 Rockets team was pretty stacked

mightybosstone
06-07-2019, 10:29 AM
yes thats the convo im more interested in but both are valid. it was technically his first year but he had input in building the team sooner iIRC.

I've loved watching Harden play and have enjoyed watching his rise to becoming this unstoppable offensive juggernaut and the overall growth of the team over the last few years, but in terms of just "favorite" teams from my time as an adult Rockets fan, I'm not sure any team compares to that 08-09 squad.

There were just so many fan favorites on that roster: Battier, Scola, Brooks, Artest, baby Lowry, baby Chuck Hayes, old man Mutombo, etc. As much as that Chris Paul hamstring thing is an obvious "what if," my biggest disappointment will probably always be that 08-09 team that was so freakishly deep had so little time together. That squad somehow won 22 straight games despite Yao missing a huge chunk of that time!

And Yao was such a likable superstar. Just one of the all-time insanely nice guys you rooted for. When he went down in that Lakers series, it killed me. And that was basically the end of his career. If he and Tracy could have given them just 2-3 more years of decent health, and Morey had found a way to keep that team together, imagine how good they would have been? That team could have easily won a couple of titles.

Imagine this lineup where all of these guys are still in their relative primes and halfway healthy:
PG Kyle Lowry / Aaron Brooks
SG Tracy McGrady
SF Ron Artest / Shane Battier
PF Luis Scola / Carl Landry
C Yao Ming / Chuck Hayes

That's crazy. You've got four All-Star caliber guys on the same roster with exceptional role players and a 9-man roster so deep Battier has to come off the bench. Morey had one only had one offseason with that team and put together what could have been an absolute monster if not for Yao and Tracy's bodies falling apart.

I do think last year's Rockets were just a flat-out better basketball team than the 08-09 team. But if that core of guys had been given a couple of years to grow together, that squad could have been one of the all-time greats.

joemon
06-12-2019, 04:29 AM
Yao in the Lakers tunnel stretching it out and coming back in gives me goosebumps every time. Every damn time.

And seeing Deke go down makes me cringe and cry every time.

And Ron-Ron. Oh man, Ron-Ron.
Loved those guys.xvideos (https://xvideos.onl/) xnxx (https://xnxx.onl/) xxx (https://ixxx.onl/)

joemon
06-13-2019, 02:04 PM
People from Texas , how much trash talking between the fan bases?


Is this like the 3rd or 4th best rivalry in the NBA?

basch152
06-14-2019, 12:48 AM
OK, but the Rockets' "what ifs" go way beyond "What if we didn't suck as a franchise and actually drafted better?" They had two studs in what should have been their primes in T-Mac and Yao, and those guys could never seem to get healthy at the same time. Plus, by the time they actually got a competent GM (Morey started in 08-09) and finally built a great roster around them, that just happened to coincide with the season both guys really broke down and were never the same again.

And then last year, the obvious "what if" regarding Chris Paul's hamstring injury kinda speaks for itself. I mean, yeah, every team has some "what ifs," but the Rockets have had a ton of talent in the last 10-12 years and just haven't been able to stay healthy. That's a pretty big difference from "we bombed our draft picks."

you. can. literally. say. this. about. any. team.

they literally all have what ifs.

and lol, Detroit drafting darko is a FAR bigger what if than chris Paul's injury.

the only possible change in your scenario is that MAYBE the rockets beat the warriors, and then MAYBE win a championship.

Detroit drafting wade, melo, or Bosh instead of darko literally changes the entire previous decade of the NBA.

first of all, with wade, Detroit could've potentially had 3 or 4 more championships in the mid 2000s. then the other two likely go to different teams. if Detroit takes wade, does shaq still go to Miami? does he join a different team and form a powerhouse? not only would Detroit gain a couple championships in this scenario, but Miami loses all 3. then do lebron and Bosh end up joining wade in Detroit? does San antonio win any championships after 03? so much **** changes

you only think your team has all these what ifs more so than other because it's the team you see most and you can see all the what if scenarios.

but literally every other team has the same situation.


lol, wat.

post detroyed by mbt

lol, no it wasnt. his post was pretty silly and illogical