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GiantsSwaGG
05-29-2019, 11:31 AM
Woj 💣


Sources: In calls to front offices, Houston GM Daryl Morey is showing an aggressive desire to improve roster with all players and picks available in talks. Hard to imagine James Harden scenario, but the rest under contract - perhaps even Chris Paul - could be moved in right deal.

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 11:38 AM
Howard was a failed experiment. I think the Paul trade is proving to be just as big of a disappointment. They really miss Patrick Beverley imo.

I would love for the raptors to land Eric Gordon. Hell Iíd love for the raps to sign Beverly in free agency. Those would be two great pieces to add.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2019, 11:43 AM
that explains every offseason for Morey

Mr.B
05-29-2019, 12:20 PM
Realistically what would the Rockets need for Capela? Cap space? A good youngish big in return? Expiring contract?


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beasted86
05-29-2019, 01:23 PM
Realistically what would the Rockets need for Capela? Cap space? A good youngish big in return? Expiring contract?


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I'm guessing cap relief and a good young player. Miami nor NY would consider it, but for example if you trade Capela for Bam Adebayo or Mitchell Robinson straight up. Gives them a younger cheaper player who can do most of what he already does.

In guessing they are trying to reduce salaries all around, get younger, get more athletic, get more ball handlers who can pass and put more motion into their offense so they aren't so heavily reliant on isolations.

xxplayerxx23
05-29-2019, 01:32 PM
Iíd say 0% chance they trade harden. Paul good luck man lol

Hustla23
05-29-2019, 01:33 PM
I'm guessing cap relief and a good young player. Miami nor NY would consider it, but for example if you trade Capela for Bam Adebayo or Mitchell Robinson straight up. Gives them a younger cheaper player who can do most of what he already does.

In guessing they are trying to reduce salaries all around, get younger, get more athletic, get more ball handlers who can pass and put more motion into their offense so they aren't so heavily reliant on isolations.

Why on earth would the Knicks trade Mitch who has the most team friendly contract in the whole league, so that they can waste cap space to overpay Capela?

xxplayerxx23
05-29-2019, 01:34 PM
Howard was a failed experiment. I think the Paul trade is proving to be just as big of a disappointment. They really miss Patrick Beverley imo.

I would love for the raptors to land Eric Gordon. Hell Iíd love for the raps to sign Beverly in free agency. Those would be two great pieces to add.

Eh I think the Paul trade is fine. I mean they lost to the warriors. That happens. They prob win a ship if it wasnít for the warriors. Think they beat the Cavs last year and this year who knows that series would be fun.

xxplayerxx23
05-29-2019, 01:35 PM
I'm guessing cap relief and a good young player. Miami nor NY would consider it, but for example if you trade Capela for Bam Adebayo or Mitchell Robinson straight up. Gives them a younger cheaper player who can do most of what he already does.

In guessing they are trying to reduce salaries all around, get younger, get more athletic, get more ball handlers who can pass and put more motion into their offense so they aren't so heavily reliant on isolations.

Bam and Robinson do exactly what capela does at way less money no way either team does that

Hustla23
05-29-2019, 01:35 PM
The Rox have nothing to offer any other team except maybe Gordon or Capela. Even then, which teams would even be willing buyers?

Should have just resigned Ariza for just money instead of now worrying about using the minimal assets that they have to improve the team.

rocket
05-29-2019, 02:18 PM
imagine trading for CP3 and paying him 40 million at age 36

R. Johnson#3
05-29-2019, 02:24 PM
Trading for Chris Paul has James Dolan written all over it.

Mr.B
05-29-2019, 03:14 PM
I'm guessing cap relief and a good young player. Miami nor NY would consider it, but for example if you trade Capela for Bam Adebayo or Mitchell Robinson straight up. Gives them a younger cheaper player who can do most of what he already does.

In guessing they are trying to reduce salaries all around, get younger, get more athletic, get more ball handlers who can pass and put more motion into their offense so they aren't so heavily reliant on isolations.

Iím thinking for the Mavs. They had an interest in him when he was a FA and he fits nicely next to KP. Iím wondering if a resigned (and very cheap) Maxi Kleber and expiring Courtney Lee could get it done? Or sub Kleber for Dwight Powell.


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xxplayerxx23
05-29-2019, 03:28 PM
Trading for Chris Paul has James Dolan written all over it.

Good thing James Dolan is out there playing with his band

xxplayerxx23
05-29-2019, 03:29 PM
Iím thinking for the Mavs. They had an interest in him when he was a FA and he fits nicely next to KP. Iím wondering if a resigned (and very cheap) Maxi Kleber and expiring Courtney Lee could get it done? Or sub Kleber for Dwight Powell.


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KP guarding stretch 4s was not good. I think eventually heís got to be a 5

Quinnsanity
05-29-2019, 03:57 PM
The Rockets are at the "increase our risk profile" portion of their existence. That means they need to find ways to add high-risk talent. Only a few guys like that come to mind. There's Boogie in free agency, but I doubt he'd take the tax-payer MLE again without at least exploring other options. Andrew Wiggins is probably available, and the new PBO in Minnesota came from Houston, so there's a relationship there. Blake Griffin maybe? Just because of the injuries? There aren't that many guys who fit the profile.

RaiderLakersA's
05-29-2019, 04:00 PM
I think they're stuck with the parts that they want most desperately to move. They've made their bed. Any team trading for CP3 at this point in his career for those kinds of dollars should have their entire front office fired and their owner forced to sell the team.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2019, 04:04 PM
omfg, I didn't realize Paul's deal was that bad. Just took a look at it.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2019, 04:05 PM
The Rockets are at the "increase our risk profile" portion of their existence. That means they need to find ways to add high-risk talent. Only a few guys like that come to mind. There's Boogie in free agency, but I doubt he'd take the tax-payer MLE again without at least exploring other options. Andrew Wiggins is probably available, and the new PBO in Minnesota came from Houston, so there's a relationship there. Blake Griffin maybe? Just because of the injuries? There aren't that many guys who fit the profile.

as horrible as Wiggins and his deal is, I would rather hate watch my own team (or just take the year off again) with him than trade for CP3...

Scoots
05-29-2019, 04:12 PM
omfg, I didn't realize Paul's deal was that bad. Just took a look at it.

Yeah ... it's baaaaaaad.

beasted86
05-29-2019, 04:15 PM
Why on earth would the Knicks trade Mitch who has the most team friendly contract in the whole league, so that they can waste cap space to overpay Capela?


Bam and Robinson do exactly what capela does at way less money no way either team does that

Sorry, it was supposed to say wouldn't. Auto-correct.

I'm a HEAT fan. I would quit if they traded Bam for Capela straight LOL.

I'm just saying is Houston would like to find value guys that can do what they need at cheaper prices. It's going to be hard for them to pull off.

crewfan13
05-29-2019, 04:21 PM
Yeah ... it's baaaaaaad.

Exactly. They can trumpet Chris Paul is available but I doubt there's a team in the league with any interest in that. Even if all you had to do was dump bad deals, most teams still don't have enough bad deals to offset his $44 mill player option in 3 years.

beasted86
05-29-2019, 04:26 PM
Exactly. They can trumpet Chris Paul is available but I doubt there's a team in the league with any interest in that. Even if all you had to do was dump bad deals, most teams still don't have enough bad deals to offset his $44 mill player option in 3 years.

Maybe a trade to Washington for John Wall. He won't even be back until 2020/21 season. That doesn't help Houston but only trade I could see happening.

Scoots
05-29-2019, 06:18 PM
Maybe a trade to Washington for John Wall. He won't even be back until 2020/21 season. That doesn't help Houston but only trade I could see happening.

Someone could trade expirings for CP3 and a whole bunch of draft picks.

goingfor28
05-29-2019, 06:21 PM
Lol nobody is trading for an old, broken, highly overpaid CP3.

nastynice
05-29-2019, 07:13 PM
Exactly. They can trumpet Chris Paul is available but I doubt there's a team in the league with any interest in that. Even if all you had to do was dump bad deals, most teams still don't have enough bad deals to offset his $44 mill player option in 3 years.

Holy **** that boy gettin paid. That's a pretty big handicap to deal with.

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 07:45 PM
as horrible as Wiggins and his deal is, I would rather hate watch my own team (or just take the year off again) with him than trade for CP3...

Worse contract in the league likely ? Itís either him or Wall imo

JJ_JKidd
05-29-2019, 09:31 PM
what happened to the Daryll Morey is a brilliant GM thing? LMAO Rockets were a flawed team from the get go. been saying this for years and this fire sale validates my arguments.

WaDe03
05-29-2019, 10:09 PM
Trading for Chris Paul has James Dolan written all over it.

Could be a washed Riley move too.

WaDe03
05-29-2019, 10:10 PM
Dragic and Whitesides expirings for Paul lol

beasted86
05-29-2019, 10:13 PM
If Chris Paul gets in better shape to start next season it would do wonders in slowing his decline. He looked like he's carrying a good 15 more pounds than he should be.

mike_noodles
05-29-2019, 10:52 PM
Somebody will take Paulís contract. Thereís always a stupid GM out there.

COOLbeans
05-29-2019, 11:09 PM
Dragic and Whitesides expirings for Paul lol

If they still had Wade I think that makes them way better

COOLbeans
05-29-2019, 11:10 PM
If Chris Paul gets in better shape to start next season it would do wonders in slowing his decline. He looked like he's carrying a good 15 more pounds than he should be.

Agreed. Heís always been overweight though. Dude is a freak basketball player. Heís be a much better player (champion) if he worked harder and got in better shape

Saddletramp
05-29-2019, 11:30 PM
what happened to the Daryll Morey is a brilliant GM thing? LMAO Rockets were a flawed team from the get go. been saying this for years and this fire sale validates my arguments.

What do you know? You took your name from an alcoholic wife beater. Looks like the two flaws last year were CP3ís injury and missing 27 straight 3s. Jason Kiddís two flaws were Grey Goose and lime.



As far as that contract, I bet Fertitta is pissed. He bought the team after the hand shake agreement Morey and former owner Leslie Alexander made CP3 and knew that if he reneged on it, it would follow him throughout the rest of his years owning the team. He inherited a bad deal that he never would have made and couple that with the failure to win before CP3ís decline and heís probably wishing Paul gets a career ending injury. But if that extra baggage came with probably his only chance to ever buy his hometown basketball team and while theyíre legit, no less, then Iím sure heíd do it again.


Iím wondering if Steve Balmer told Paul that he wasnít going to offer him the max since heíd be bidding against himself and Paul said ďthen trade me to a team that will and give me the agreement.Ē

Quinnsanity
05-30-2019, 01:39 AM
FWIW, I think a lot of people are really underestimating just how desperate some NBA owners are for attention. We all thought the Blake deal was untradeable. Detroit is so irrelevant that they were willing to take it. You're telling me Orlando wouldn't get really excited at the prospect of having even a diminished Chris Paul? You're telling me Indiana wouldn't be interested in a few years in the spotlight? Frankly, I think there's one team that I think we're all grossly overlooking, and that's New Orleans. What else are they gonna use that cap space on? Imagine the good will of a CP3 homecoming AND Zion in the same season. They'd sell out the building every night. If the price is low enough, there is not going to be a shortage of suitors here. Chris Paul is a name that owners know.

WaDe03
05-30-2019, 07:30 AM
If they still had Wade I think that makes them way better

True but wade isnít there to save them or play gm as of right now. We saw the moves Riley made his year and a half without wade, Iím nervous.

tp13baby
05-30-2019, 10:16 AM
Losing Gordon would be detrimental to the Rockets. Paul gets in shape is still a valuable player and he is nearly untradable.

Capela can be replaced. His contract isnít bad either so if you can get a wing and the opportunity to replace him with a young big in the draft I think that helps them.

brandt
05-30-2019, 11:25 AM
what happened to the Daryll Morey is a brilliant GM thing? LMAO Rockets were a flawed team from the get go. been saying this for years and this fire sale validates my arguments.
This happens every year though. People criticize him for making stupid moves, and then he make some genius move to shut people like you up. Youíll see!

brandt
05-30-2019, 01:04 PM
Somebody will take Paulís contract. Thereís always a stupid GM out there.

Exactly! And Morey is the most manipulating GM out there, to add to it.

rhino17
05-30-2019, 01:13 PM
what happened to the Daryll Morey is a brilliant GM thing? LMAO Rockets were a flawed team from the get go. been saying this for years and this fire sale validates my arguments.

Despite those flaws, they have proven they are the only team capable of beating golden state. Without injuries last year, they would have won.

They haven't won a championship, still have been incredibly successful in Morey's tenure. Hell, they've had what, 3-4 losing seasons in the last 30 years? A houston "fire sale" just means retooling and being highly competitive again next season

WaDe03
05-30-2019, 01:40 PM
I mean I think itís dumb to make big moves to be honest. Run it back, the league is going to open up when KD and Cousins leave, possibly Klay but I doubt it

Scoots
05-30-2019, 01:42 PM
Despite those flaws, they have proven they are the only team capable of beating golden state. Without injuries last year, they would have won.

They haven't won a championship, still have been incredibly successful in Morey's tenure. Hell, they've had what, 3-4 losing seasons in the last 30 years? A houston "fire sale" just means retooling and being highly competitive again next season

Without injuries to either team the Warriors would still have won.

Scoots
05-30-2019, 01:43 PM
I mean I think itís dumb to make big moves to be honest. Run it back, the league is going to open up when KD and Cousins leave, possibly Klay but I doubt it

I agree. They have the most stable roster in the top teams in the NBA. No reason not to just do a slight re-fill of the bottom of the roster and go again. But they apparently don't agree.

Hawkeye15
05-30-2019, 01:58 PM
Worse contract in the league likely ? Itís either him or Wall imo

I am going to say Wall, only because I have always thought the second his elite burst was gone, he was finished. And I think it's gone. CP3 is a shell of himself, but still a plus PG.

Hawkeye15
05-30-2019, 01:59 PM
Despite those flaws, they have proven they are the only team capable of beating golden state. Without injuries last year, they would have won.

They haven't won a championship, still have been incredibly successful in Morey's tenure. Hell, they've had what, 3-4 losing seasons in the last 30 years? A houston "fire sale" just means retooling and being highly competitive again next season

Morey has made a few mistakes, but so does any great GM. I don't agree with his asset only approach to non-stars sometimes, but he is clearly ahead of the curve in the modern NBA.

Hawkeye15
05-30-2019, 02:00 PM
If Chris Paul gets in better shape to start next season it would do wonders in slowing his decline. He looked like he's carrying a good 15 more pounds than he should be.

totally agree dude. He looks chubby

Scoots
05-30-2019, 02:29 PM
CP3's been grabbing and holding for years, him being in better shape isn't going to change that much, if at all ... if the officiating has a similar "refinement" from last year it may really hurt CP3 more than most.

beasted86
05-30-2019, 03:31 PM
CP3's been grabbing and holding for years, him being in better shape isn't going to change that much, if at all ... if the officiating has a similar "refinement" from last year it may really hurt CP3 more than most.

For sure it would help. How many hamstring injuries does this guy get per year? Nobody is saying he's going to become a 20/10 PG again. But he can definitely continue being a 16/8 player on much better efficiency and hopefully playing more games injury free.

Scoots
05-30-2019, 04:08 PM
Supposedly the Rockets are looking at Ty Lue as associate head coach, under D'Antoni.

There is speculation that the is a battle between Morey and D'Antoni.

Of course, we don't know anything.

WaDe03
05-30-2019, 04:33 PM
Supposedly the Rockets are looking at Ty Lue as associate head coach, under D'Antoni.

There is speculation that the is a battle between Morey and D'Antoni.

Of course, we don't know anything.

Dantoni ended contract extension talks with the rockets woj just reported.

Damn this thing is coming to a quick end, something had to have happened behind the scenes.

IKnowHoops
05-30-2019, 05:18 PM
FWIW, I think a lot of people are really underestimating just how desperate some NBA owners are for attention. We all thought the Blake deal was untradeable. Detroit is so irrelevant that they were willing to take it. You're telling me Orlando wouldn't get really excited at the prospect of having even a diminished Chris Paul? You're telling me Indiana wouldn't be interested in a few years in the spotlight? Frankly, I think there's one team that I think we're all grossly overlooking, and that's New Orleans. What else are they gonna use that cap space on? Imagine the good will of a CP3 homecoming AND Zion in the same season. They'd sell out the building every night. If the price is low enough, there is not going to be a shortage of suitors here. Chris Paul is a name that owners know.

I agree with all of this

warfelg
05-30-2019, 05:30 PM
Any GM who doesn't consider making big moves after not making the finals needs their head checked.

Scoots
05-30-2019, 07:28 PM
Any GM who doesn't consider making big moves after not making the finals needs their head checked.

But if your GM and coach are not getting along and the owner is forcing them to stay together?

Mr.B
05-30-2019, 07:40 PM
Supposedly the Rockets are looking at Ty Lue as associate head coach, under D'Antoni.

There is speculation that the is a battle between Morey and D'Antoni.

Of course, we don't know anything.

Rumor also has it they want to make a run at KD. They HAVE to clear CP3 and Capela off their books though without taking much of anything back. Mavs have a $25 mil trade exception and an interest in Capela. Lakers have cap room and Labron is besties with CP3. Seems like both are likely destinations if you ask me.


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warfelg
05-30-2019, 07:47 PM
But if your GM and coach are not getting along and the owner is forcing them to stay together?

What does that have to do with my statement? GM's who don't make the finals and think everything is fine shouldn't be a GM. The only thing that shocked me is not denying the reports that Harden is available too.

warfelg
05-30-2019, 07:49 PM
Rumor also has it they want to make a run at KD. They HAVE to clear CP3 and Capela off their books though without taking much of anything back. Mavs have a $25 mil trade exception and an interest in Capela. Lakers have cap room and Labron is besties with CP3. Seems like both are likely destinations if you ask me.


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Capella would be a GREAT option for Dallas with Luka and Proz. A couple of non-guaranteed contracts, some seconds, some insanely protected 1st. Man. That's a decent trio.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-31-2019, 09:27 AM
FWIW, I think a lot of people are really underestimating just how desperate some NBA owners are for attention. We all thought the Blake deal was untradeable. Detroit is so irrelevant that they were willing to take it. You're telling me Orlando wouldn't get really excited at the prospect of having even a diminished Chris Paul? You're telling me Indiana wouldn't be interested in a few years in the spotlight? Frankly, I think there's one team that I think we're all grossly overlooking, and that's New Orleans. What else are they gonna use that cap space on? Imagine the good will of a CP3 homecoming AND Zion in the same season. They'd sell out the building every night. If the price is low enough, there is not going to be a shortage of suitors here. Chris Paul is a name that owners know.

Griffin was 28 when he was traded to the Pistons. CP3 is 34 now and he makes more money than Blake.

mightybosstone
05-31-2019, 12:57 PM
Howard was a failed experiment. I think the Paul trade is proving to be just as big of a disappointment. They really miss Patrick Beverley imo.
Not sure how you justify that. The team got significantly better after the Paul deal. Defensively, they even got better after Beverley left.

I'd agree the end result of this has been a disappointment, but you can't tell me that the Paul trade wasn't still a huge win for the Rockets. They've been a much better basketball team and have been much more competitive with Golden State since CP3 came to town.

mightybosstone
05-31-2019, 01:03 PM
FWIW, I think a lot of people are really underestimating just how desperate some NBA owners are for attention. We all thought the Blake deal was untradeable. Detroit is so irrelevant that they were willing to take it. You're telling me Orlando wouldn't get really excited at the prospect of having even a diminished Chris Paul? You're telling me Indiana wouldn't be interested in a few years in the spotlight? Frankly, I think there's one team that I think we're all grossly overlooking, and that's New Orleans. What else are they gonna use that cap space on? Imagine the good will of a CP3 homecoming AND Zion in the same season. They'd sell out the building every night. If the price is low enough, there is not going to be a shortage of suitors here. Chris Paul is a name that owners know.

OK, but what are the Rockets going to get back in a CP3 deal? And what are they going to have to give up to get rid of the contract? Morey won't do a contract dump just to dump a contract if it makes the team worse on paper. That's why it's just insanely unlikely to me that Paul gets dealt this offseason. They're not going to get a player or players of equal value back for Paul that will make the roster better.

The ONLY way Paul gets dealt is if it helps Morey free up the cap space to sign a player of equal or greater value than CP3. And that's a pretty massive "if' at this point.

If players are getting dealt from the Rockets, my money would be on Capela and/or Gordon. They're on much more palletable contracts, and it's realistic to think the Rockets could add a player or players by dealing those two guys who would make them better on paper.

Scoots
05-31-2019, 01:16 PM
OK, but what are the Rockets going to get back in a CP3 deal? And what are they going to have to give up to get rid of the contract? Morey won't do a contract dump just to dump a contract if it makes the team worse on paper. That's why it's just insanely unlikely to me that Paul gets dealt this offseason. They're not going to get a player or players of equal value back for Paul that will make the roster better.

The ONLY way Paul gets dealt is if it helps Morey free up the cap space to sign a player of equal or greater value than CP3. And that's a pretty massive "if' at this point.

If players are getting dealt from the Rockets, my money would be on Capela and/or Gordon. They're on much more palletable contracts, and it's realistic to think the Rockets could add a player or players by dealing those two guys who would make them better on paper.

Or if Fertita demands it regardless of the progress of the roster.

mightybosstone
05-31-2019, 01:30 PM
Or if Fertita demands it regardless of the progress of the roster.

I don't think Fertita has become that kind of owner... yet. I do think he and Morey haven't seen eye to eye completely on the coaching situation and that Fertita wanting to delay having to pay the repeater tax as long as possible had a small impact on the team's decisions last season. But I don't think he would extend one of the better GMs in professional sports one minute and then turn around and make huge demands about the team's roster the next.

If Fertita does become that guy, Morey won't be the GM of the Rockets much longer. The guy's in too high demand for that, and I think Fertita knows it or he wouldn't have extended him.

nastynice
05-31-2019, 08:15 PM
The problem with moreys approach is that it doesn't take into account how the game changes in the playoffs. He and dantoni looks at stats across the board and applies it to a playoff series expecting the same result

Mr.B
05-31-2019, 09:21 PM
Capella would be a GREAT option for Dallas with Luka and Proz. A couple of non-guaranteed contracts, some seconds, some insanely protected 1st. Man. That's a decent trio.

The hope is that they can find a way to pull from this trade while also maintaining their cap space to add a free agent (Kemba, Middleton, or Jimmy Butler).


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Scoots
05-31-2019, 10:38 PM
The problem with moreys approach is that it doesn't take into account how the game changes in the playoffs. He and dantoni looks at stats across the board and applies it to a playoff series expecting the same result

But part of their plan is to get the NBA to "fix" playoff officiating so their approach is superior. Don't play the game the same as the other guys is central to both of their approaches.

mightybosstone
06-01-2019, 01:04 PM
The problem with moreys approach is that it doesn't take into account how the game changes in the playoffs. He and dantoni looks at stats across the board and applies it to a playoff series expecting the same result

I don't think that's true at all. The problem with the Rockets is that they're up against one of the greatest teams in the history of the NBA every postseason, and it's basically impossible to match the Warriors talent-wise, so he's having to match them in terms of matchups and strengths/weaknesses.

The Warriors have lost 11 times so far in the postseason in the Durant era, and five of those losses have come at the hands of the Rockets. Frankly, if it wasn't for the Warriors, that team last season would have been a lock to win the title and absolutely would be in the Finals right now.

mightybosstone
06-01-2019, 01:06 PM
But part of their plan is to get the NBA to "fix" playoff officiating so their approach is superior. Don't play the game the same as the other guys is central to both of their approaches.
First off, I think you're drastically blowing the officiating thing out of proportion, and I don't appreciate this unnecessarily catty ********. You guys won the ****ing series. Move on.

Secondly, even if they did have to complain about the officiating, they weren't in the wrong. Literally everybody on the planet complained after Game 1 of that series because of the no-calls on Thompson.

cmellofan15
06-01-2019, 01:11 PM
But part of their plan is to get the NBA to "fix" playoff officiating so their approach is superior. Don't play the game the same as the other guys is central to both of their approaches.

hahahahaha they wanted to fix the playoff officiating so they would stop favoring the warriors. but your narrative is way cuter and makes the rockets look like the bad guys so stick to it <3

Saddletramp
06-01-2019, 01:57 PM
Scoots gonna Scoots.

Scoots
06-01-2019, 02:10 PM
First off, I think you're drastically blowing the officiating thing out of proportion, and I don't appreciate this unnecessarily catty ********. You guys won the ****ing series. Move on.

Secondly, even if they did have to complain about the officiating, they weren't in the wrong. Literally everybody on the planet complained after Game 1 of that series because of the no-calls on Thompson.

It's not catty at all. It's totally sincere, and I like Morey's approach. I've heard Morey at the Sloan Conference say that he was looking to set trends not follow them and the play the game different from the way the league is playing to take advantage of the talent advantage possible by keying on different talent for a different scheme, and the officiating is certainly part of that. They have been open about gathering data and presenting it to the league to get the officiating to change.

I don't like watching the game the way Harden plays it, but I don't think I've ever said anything about him as a player other than that he's great at what he does, and he's just been getting better at it over the last 3 years.

The fact that you are behind the Rockets view on officiating is not surprising, and not close to "literally everybody on the planet complained" ... there were talking heads on TV who didn't complain but just said things like "that's the playoffs".

Scoots
06-01-2019, 02:10 PM
hahahahaha they wanted to fix the playoff officiating so they would stop favoring the warriors. but your narrative is way cuter and makes the rockets look like the bad guys so stick to it <3

Boy did that get misinterpreted. I would like officiating to be consistent too.

ewing
06-02-2019, 06:55 AM
Are the Rockets saying the Warriors were too physical?


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Scoots
06-02-2019, 08:38 AM
Are the Rockets saying the Warriors were too physical?

Or that the league is inconsistent with it's officiating, or that the officials favor the Warriors.

WaDe03
06-02-2019, 12:14 PM
Scoots gonna Scoots.

Heís a troll who is somehow a mod. Wonder why the site has fallen off a cliff.

nastynice
06-02-2019, 03:13 PM
Heís a troll who is somehow a mod. Wonder why the site has fallen off a cliff.

Haha, when does Scoots troll?

I think him being a warriors fan is skewing your vision.

Oh man, like someone earlier said the fans ruined it, lmaooooo, oh that was gold!

mightybosstone
06-02-2019, 03:19 PM
It's not catty at all. It's totally sincere, and I like Morey's approach. I've heard Morey at the Sloan Conference say that he was looking to set trends not follow them and the play the game different from the way the league is playing to take advantage of the talent advantage possible by keying on different talent for a different scheme, and the officiating is certainly part of that. They have been open about gathering data and presenting it to the league to get the officiating to change.

I don't like watching the game the way Harden plays it, but I don't think I've ever said anything about him as a player other than that he's great at what he does, and he's just been getting better at it over the last 3 years.

The fact that you are behind the Rockets view on officiating is not surprising, and not close to "literally everybody on the planet complained" ... there were talking heads on TV who didn't complain but just said things like "that's the playoffs".

When you put "fix" in quotation marks, you and I both know you're implying sarcasm. You can call it whatever you want, but I know someone looking to troll when I see it, and that was pretty catty, chief. This thread has literally nothing to do with that, and yet you felt the need to comment on it regardless.

Comments on something unrelated to thread + obviously sarcastic comment + clearly a touchy subject for a fan base inevitably reading the thread = trolling. Whether that was your intention or not, that's certainly how it's perceived...

mightybosstone
06-02-2019, 03:23 PM
I said this in another thread, but Morey all but confirmed Paul wasn't going anywhere on social media yesterday. It was in a totally random Instagram thread, but Morey's no idiot. You don't make comments on social media about the potential for your players to stay or get dealt unless you're 100% certain they're not going anywhere.

Again, if there's a "fire sale" for the Rockets, it would probably be the pieces around Harden and Paul, but it's not going to be Harden and Paul. The team may look different next season, but those two guys will still be there.

Scoots
06-02-2019, 11:59 PM
When you put "fix" in quotation marks, you and I both know you're implying sarcasm. You can call it whatever you want, but I know someone looking to troll when I see it, and that was pretty catty, chief. This thread has literally nothing to do with that, and yet you felt the need to comment on it regardless.

Comments on something unrelated to thread + obviously sarcastic comment + clearly a touchy subject for a fan base inevitably reading the thread = trolling. Whether that was your intention or not, that's certainly how it's perceived...

It wasn't sarcasm. I wasn't looking to troll, I was stating what I think was the actual plan.

Heediot
06-05-2019, 11:03 PM
rockets should try and get cousins for cheap and trade capela for a couple of 3 & d guys.

TrueFan420
06-05-2019, 11:04 PM
rockets should try and get cousins for cheap and trade capela for a couple of 3 & d guys.

Cousins is leaving to get paid if he signs anywhere cheap heíd likely just stay where he is.

Saddletramp
06-06-2019, 02:08 AM
Cousins is leaving to get paid if he signs anywhere cheap heíd likely just stay where he is.

Precisely. Some of these ideas arenít very well thought out.

Heediot
06-06-2019, 06:33 AM
Precisely. Some of these ideas arenít very well thought out.

it's true that cousins might not be attainable, but it's these type of moves the rockets are handcuffed with. if they are fortunate like gs, whom nobody thought had a chance to sign dmc, they should capitalize. his stock is pretty low right now, and it could be true that its gs or money, but you never know just like last off-season. if not cousins houston needs to look at buying low type signings and maybe they'll luck out for some similar scenario like the dmc-gs one.

Heediot
06-06-2019, 06:39 AM
he might not be a great fit in houston next to harden anyway, but what else can you do to get talent without llosing assets? i can see it exploding their faces when cp, dmc and harden all butt heads lmao. just a suggestion and maybe morey can pull something similar.

mightybosstone
06-07-2019, 10:54 AM
rockets should try and get cousins for cheap and trade capela for a couple of 3 & d guys.

If the Rockets deal Capela, I don't think they do it for 3 and D wings. I think they do it to add another legitimate offensive threat OR to get assets to help acquire another legitimate offensive threat. As much as I love Capela, the guy shrunk in the playoffs this season in a way that made Harden look like Michael Jordan by comparison. He was just totally unplayable against Golden State and a HUGE reason why they lost that series.

I honestly think they could replace Capela's defense with someone using the taxpayer MLEóDeAndre Jordan makes a ton of sense to me on paper. And Capela's contract is still pretty palatable; I could see a young team wanting to build around him as their center in a running offense that utilizes the pick and roll.

As much as I love them and think they could be key cogs to a championship team, Gordon and Tucker are the other two guys who could easily be dealt. They're both on extremely team friendly deals with only one year left apiece. Maybe they look to package two of those guys to a team to add another legitimate offensive threat or a two-way star?

The one guy who continues to jump out to me in theory is Jimmy Butler. Maybe he opts in to his last year, and they could pull off a deal of Gordon, filler and picks to get him from Philly? They could even deal Capela in a thee-way trade (Capela to Philly makes zero sense) to get more assets for a Butler trade. If there's concern he's not gelling with the young guys, I do think he'd fit in extremely well with Paul, Tucker and Harden, who he's supposedly close friends with. Morey tried to get him last year, and Butler was on the record complementing the Rockets last season before he got dealt to Philly.

I think it's a long shot, but imagine a starting five of:

PG Chris Paul
SG James Harden
SF Jimmy Butler
PF PJ Tucker
C DeAndre Jordan

:drool:

WaDe03
06-07-2019, 11:09 AM
Heat interested in Gordon and Tucker

mightybosstone
06-07-2019, 11:23 AM
Heat interested in Gordon and Tucker

Yeah, but I don't see what the Heat have that would interest the Rockets. Morey is clearly a Dragic fan, but he makes no sense with Paul and Harden on the team. A Whiteside for Capela swap doesn't make sense either. And there are other 3 and D type guys on the roster that would make sense, but why would you deal your 3 and D guys for other 3 and D guys.

The only way Miami makes sense is if the Rockets' roster changes drastically soon. Like if Paul or Capela weren't there anymore, then I could absolutely see the Rockets being interested in Dragic and/or Whiteside. But as it is, they just don't seem like a great match personnel-wise.

WaDe03
06-07-2019, 11:58 AM
Yeah, but I don't see what the Heat have that would interest the Rockets. Morey is clearly a Dragic fan, but he makes no sense with Paul and Harden on the team. A Whiteside for Capela swap doesn't make sense either. And there are other 3 and D type guys on the roster that would make sense, but why would you deal your 3 and D guys for other 3 and D guys.

The only way Miami makes sense is if the Rockets' roster changes drastically soon. Like if Paul or Capela weren't there anymore, then I could absolutely see the Rockets being interested in Dragic and/or Whiteside. But as it is, they just don't seem like a great match personnel-wise.

Yea Iíve been trying to think of what it could be. I know weíre also interested in CP3. I have no clue what Rileyís is thinking or if he even has a plan. Maybe a huge cap shedding move for you all to make moves in free agency this year or the next. We have big expirings in Dragic Anderson and Whiteside. Apparently theyíre after JR so there could be another who only has 3M guaranteed. No clue really.

CELTICS4LYFE
06-11-2019, 10:00 AM
Capella for Horford?

If Kyrie leaves and no AD, Horford might want to contend and he almost signed there when he signed in Bos.

Houston keeps its contention window open with big 3 of Paul/Harden/Horford

Boston goes with the young core of Brown/Tatum/Cap

mightybosstone
06-11-2019, 11:46 AM
Capella for Horford?

If Kyrie leaves and no AD, Horford might want to contend and he almost signed there when he signed in Bos.

Houston keeps its contention window open with big 3 of Paul/Harden/Horford

Boston goes with the young core of Brown/Tatum/Cap

I'd actually be good with this, but the numbers don't add up. Capela makes less than half of what Horford makes, so the Rockets might have to throw in Tucker or Gordon, which I definitely would not be OK with. Even if they added up Nene and all the other little rookie contracts they have, I'm not sure it's enough. So it might have to be a three-team deal.

CELTICS4LYFE
06-11-2019, 12:45 PM
I'd actually be good with this, but the numbers don't add up. Capela makes less than half of what Horford makes, so the Rockets might have to throw in Tucker or Gordon, which I definitely would not be OK with. Even if they added up Nene and all the other little rookie contracts they have, I'm not sure it's enough. So it might have to be a three-team deal.

Thereís talks Horford will opt out of his option for more years/less per. So maybe S&T 3/60m

Wes Mantooth
06-11-2019, 01:10 PM
I said this in another thread, but Morey all but confirmed Paul wasn't going anywhere on social media yesterday. It was in a totally random Instagram thread, but Morey's no idiot. You don't make comments on social media about the potential for your players to stay or get dealt unless you're 100% certain they're not going anywhere.

Again, if there's a "fire sale" for the Rockets, it would probably be the pieces around Harden and Paul, but it's not going to be Harden and Paul. The team may look different next season, but those two guys will still be there.

That's because CP3's contract is untradeable. Nobody wants that. It's one of the NBA's worst contracts. So if you can't move him, don't piss him off by shopping him. Face it, the Rockets missed their window in last year's playoffs and now their cap trouble is going to make it almost impossible to improve. Your fate was sealed when CP3 signed that huge deal.

mightybosstone
06-11-2019, 01:20 PM
That's because CP3's contract is untradeable. Nobody wants that. It's one of the NBA's worst contracts. So if you can't move him, don't piss him off by shopping him. Face it, the Rockets missed their window in last year's playoffs and now their cap trouble is going to make it almost impossible to improve. Your fate was sealed when CP3 signed that huge deal.

Go back and read my posts in this thread, chief. I've pretty much been saying the same thing about Paul's contract since the Rockets' season ended. If Morey thought he could make the team better by dealing Paul, he'd find a way to do it. But it's not possible because of how massive the contract is and how much Paul underperformed last season.

Where we disagree is that the Rockets' window is necessarily over and there's zero chance to improve the team. One way or the other, the Warriors will be without Durant next season. Assuming the rest of the West doesn't drastically change or a superstar doesn't flip from the East to the West, the Rockets right now are still the second best team in the conference and might actually be better than the Warriors sans Durant and probably Cousins.

Also, just because they don't have any flexibility with the cap right now doesn't mean they can't improve the roster. Capela is on a pretty team-friendly deal as are Gordon and Tucker. I could easily see a scenario where Morey moves one or more of those guys in a trade that nets them some different pieces, and then they use the taxpayer MLE to add 1-2 quality veterans.

Can they sign a superstar in free agency? No. But most contending teams can't because they're above or near the cap. So Morey will have to do what all contending GMs have to doóimprove the pieces around his stars with some trades and shrewd acquisitions.

Oakmont_4
06-11-2019, 01:37 PM
This deal would have to be broken out into 2 separate trades but can be viewed as 1 large trade. I think it makes a ton of sense for both sides.

Houstonís already closer to GS already now that KD is done and Cousins likely wonít be back. However, they still need to improve.

Trade 1
Horford S&T 4/$90m
Smart
Baynes (opts in)

For CP3, 2 first round picks

*Horford deal breaks down like this. Yr1 $25m, Yr2 $22m, Yr3 $18m, Yr4 $15m. This is broken down like this for trade purposes and an expected decline as Horford ages

Trade 2
Rozier S&T 4/$60m

For Capela

For Houston this is a win. Horford provides leadership and range that Capela canít. The pick and roll/pop possibilities are deadly between Harden and Horford. Irving/Horford was good but Harden is even better. Houston also gets 2 scrappy defenders in Smart and Baynes. Smart will really be great matching up against Klay. Rozier is a great PG for their system he just needs to be more consistent but starting minutes and a clearly defined role should really help.

For Boston, they get a nice young C who aligns with Tatum and Browns timelines better than Horford. His deal is cap friendly and he can rebound and defend better than anyone Boston has had at C in a long time. CP3ís contract is terrible but he wonít be asked to shoulder much of a load in Boston like he was in Houston. His main objective is to run the offense and make Tatum and Brown better.

Boston
PG CP3
SG Brown
SF Tatum/Hayward
PF Morris
C Capela

Houston
PG Rozier
SG Harden/Smart
SF Gordon
PF Tucker
C Horford/Baynes

Saddletramp
06-11-2019, 02:17 PM
Baynes canít be included unless he cuts his hair. Thatís just gross.

Saddletramp
06-11-2019, 02:18 PM
All kidding aside, Iíd do it.

Oakmont_4
06-11-2019, 02:20 PM
Baynes canít be included unless he cuts his hair. Thatís just gross.

He already cut it for the playoffs haha

Saddletramp
06-11-2019, 04:15 PM
He already cut it for the playoffs haha

Then where do I sign?

mightybosstone
06-11-2019, 04:43 PM
This deal would have to be broken out into 2 separate trades but can be viewed as 1 large trade. I think it makes a ton of sense for both sides.

Houstonís already closer to GS already now that KD is done and Cousins likely wonít be back. However, they still need to improve.

Trade 1
Horford S&T 4/$90m
Smart
Baynes (opts in)

For CP3, 2 first round picks

*Horford deal breaks down like this. Yr1 $25m, Yr2 $22m, Yr3 $18m, Yr4 $15m. This is broken down like this for trade purposes and an expected decline as Horford ages

Trade 2
Rozier S&T 4/$60m

For Capela

For Houston this is a win. Horford provides leadership and range that Capela canít. The pick and roll/pop possibilities are deadly between Harden and Horford. Irving/Horford was good but Harden is even better. Houston also gets 2 scrappy defenders in Smart and Baynes. Smart will really be great matching up against Klay. Rozier is a great PG for their system he just needs to be more consistent but starting minutes and a clearly defined role should really help.

For Boston, they get a nice young C who aligns with Tatum and Browns timelines better than Horford. His deal is cap friendly and he can rebound and defend better than anyone Boston has had at C in a long time. CP3ís contract is terrible but he wonít be asked to shoulder much of a load in Boston like he was in Houston. His main objective is to run the offense and make Tatum and Brown better.

Boston
PG CP3
SG Brown
SF Tatum/Hayward
PF Morris
C Capela

Houston
PG Rozier
SG Harden/Smart
SF Gordon
PF Tucker
C Horford/Baynes

Nah. I'd pass. The Horford and Capela swap I'd definitely be on board with. But I just don't think that Rozier, Smart and Baynes = Chris Paul. Even this older Paul in decline is probably still a top 30-40 player in the league. Those guys are all just role players at this point. They weren't even good enough to justify getting 20 minutes apiece in the postseason this year (although Smart was admittedly banged up).

Also, I'm pretty sure this is a moot point, because sign and trades don't work this way. You can't sign and trade a guy and throw a bunch of other players on top of that contract. You can only sign and trade that one playeróbut someone correct me if I'm wrong on this...

Oakmont_4
06-11-2019, 04:52 PM
Nah. I'd pass. The Horford and Capela swap I'd definitely be on board with. But I just don't think that Rozier, Smart and Baynes = Chris Paul. Even this older Paul in decline is probably still a top 30-40 player in the league. Those guys are all just role players at this point. They weren't even good enough to justify getting 20 minutes apiece in the postseason this year (although Smart was admittedly banged up).

Also, I'm pretty sure this is a moot point, because sign and trades don't work this way. You can't sign and trade a guy and throw a bunch of other players on top of that contract. You can only sign and trade that one playeróbut someone correct me if I'm wrong on this...

Youíre incorrect. It used to work that way under the old CBA but it was changed.

Now you can package S&T players with other players on the roster. However, it gets complicated because their outgoing salary only counts as half their dollar figure but the incoming is the full amount. So it makes matching salaries more difficult.

In this case
Horford at $25M would count as the full $25M for Houston. But only counts as $12.5M for Boston as outgoing. So what this prevents is Boston using Horford to take back another MAX player all by himself. It forces the trading team to include more assets.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/05/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare.html

Oakmont_4
06-11-2019, 05:01 PM
Nah. I'd pass. The Horford and Capela swap I'd definitely be on board with. But I just don't think that Rozier, Smart and Baynes = Chris Paul. Even this older Paul in decline is probably still a top 30-40 player in the league. Those guys are all just role players at this point. They weren't even good enough to justify getting 20 minutes apiece in the postseason this year (although Smart was admittedly banged up).

Also, I'm pretty sure this is a moot point, because sign and trades don't work this way. You can't sign and trade a guy and throw a bunch of other players on top of that contract. You can only sign and trade that one playeróbut someone correct me if I'm wrong on this...

I donít know that you can really use playoff minutes as a barometer. Rozier was blocked by Kyrie playing nearly 37mpg. Obviously Rozier isnít stealing minutes from Kyrie. Granted Rozier had a down year but he was clearly frustrated with his role. Itís no excuse for his action but I wouldnít totally commit him to just a role player yet. Heíll never be a super star but heís certainly capable of putting up the numbers CP3 posted this past year in a larger role.

Smart is a role player but a top end role player. A highly specialized defensive player. All NBA and he delivers so much more than what shows on the stat sheet.

Baynes is clearly a role player. But solid.

As I mentioned this trade canít be viewed as these 3 equaling CP3. Itís not meant to. Itís to be viewed as 1 trade. Because it essentially is. Horfords a superior player to Capela, but older. Similar to how CP3 is better than the other 3, but older. And yes weíd be getting CP3 at a discount because his contract truly is that bad.

mightybosstone
06-11-2019, 08:55 PM
I donít know that you can really use playoff minutes as a barometer. Rozier was blocked by Kyrie playing nearly 37mpg. Obviously Rozier isnít stealing minutes from Kyrie. Granted Rozier had a down year but he was clearly frustrated with his role. Itís no excuse for his action but I wouldnít totally commit him to just a role player yet. Heíll never be a super star but heís certainly capable of putting up the numbers CP3 posted this past year in a larger role.
I agree the guy is capable of more, but this sentence is just unequivocally false. I like Rozier, but the dude has consistently been an inefficient scorer with limited playmaking ability. His best season in 17-18, he boasted a 52% TS% with a 17.7% AST% and averaged 16 points and 4 assists on less than 40% shooting in 36 minutes per game. By comparison, Paul is coming off his worst season in probably more than a decade and still put up 16 and 8 in only 32 minutes a night on 42% shooting with a 56% TS% and a 39% AST%.

They're not comparable as players. It's not remotely close.


Smart is a role player but a top end role player. A highly specialized defensive player. All NBA and he delivers so much more than what shows on the stat sheet.

Baynes is clearly a role player. But solid.
This I can agree with. Both guys are solid, but easily replaceable. Of the three players, Smart might be my favorite, but none of them replaces Paul's playmaking skills or efficient scoring as Houston's No. 2.


As I mentioned this trade canít be viewed as these 3 equaling CP3. Itís not meant to. Itís to be viewed as 1 trade. Because it essentially is. Horfords a superior player to Capela, but older. Similar to how CP3 is better than the other 3, but older. And yes weíd be getting CP3 at a discount because his contract truly is that bad.
But do those four guys make the Rockets better than they are today with Paul and Capela? The answer is pretty easily "no" for me. And the deal doesn't save Houston enough cap room to go out and add another star player in free agency to make up the difference.

I'm all for making a move, but if it's just a lateral deal or something that doesn't make the Rockets better on paper, I'd much rather just keep the core in place that's the second best team in the Western Conference.

Oakmont_4
06-11-2019, 10:07 PM
I agree the guy is capable of more, but this sentence is just unequivocally false. I like Rozier, but the dude has consistently been an inefficient scorer with limited playmaking ability. His best season in 17-18, he boasted a 52% TS% with a 17.7% AST% and averaged 16 points and 4 assists on less than 40% shooting in 36 minutes per game. By comparison, Paul is coming off his worst season in probably more than a decade and still put up 16 and 8 in only 32 minutes a night on 42% shooting with a 56% TS% and a 39% AST%.

They're not comparable as players. It's not remotely close.


This I can agree with. Both guys are solid, but easily replaceable. Of the three players, Smart might be my favorite, but none of them replaces Paul's playmaking skills or efficient scoring as Houston's No. 2.


But do those four guys make the Rockets better than they are today with Paul and Capela? The answer is pretty easily "no" for me. And the deal doesn't save Houston enough cap room to go out and add another star player in free agency to make up the difference.

I'm all for making a move, but if it's just a lateral deal or something that doesn't make the Rockets better on paper, I'd much rather just keep the core in place that's the second best team in the Western Conference.

Fair points. I shouldíve been more clear in my quick analysis. When I stated Rozier could put up similar numbers I was strictly referencing PTs, Asts, etc. CP3 is clearly a more efficient player, no argument there and playing next to Harden that is important, Iíll grant you that.

However, you state this was CP3ís worst season in a decade. You expect him to get better with age? Iím not knocking CP3, in fact I think heíll age rather gracefully but I think numbers similar to last season are what you can expect going forward. He canít shoulder the load he used to. However, heíll still have stints of greatness, but they wonít last over prolonged periods. He wonít be able to continually log 32 mpg, thatíll drop under 30. Heíll miss more games each year, need more rest and load management. It just is what it is. And with what Houston wants to accomplish, I donít think that can be your #2 guy no matter how great Harden is and how great CP3 can be on some nights, but not every night.

Smart, easily replaceable? No. Irreplaceable not saying that either. But you need to watch him more to see what he brings. There are few Marcus Smarts in the league. Not saying heís a star. But heís unique and not easily found.

As for Rozier. I think heís better suited for Houstonís system than Bostonís which is why he hasnít really flourished (among other reasons of course). A system that lets him run and shoot without fear could really bring out the best in him. Yes he will need to improve his efficiency and consistency, but similar to how Houstonís system has brought the best out of players like Gordon, Tucker, Ariza etc... you could expect similar results with Rozier. These are all role player type guys but really Houstonís system elevated them to be more than that.

Personally, I think the trade makes you better now and in the future. Horford is a massive addition. Capela is younger and more athletic. Burt Horfords range, defense, IQ and ability to pass gives Houston an entirely new dimension. And as i mentioned previous, Smarts your game changer on defense. The momentum swinging hustle plays he makes on a nightly basis are something Houston hasnít had. Losing CP3ís playmaking ability I think is overstated. Hardens so ball dominant I donít know that youíd notice much of a drop off. And Horfords playmaking, passing ability and range would be a greater advantage over Capela than CP3 is over Rozier at this point in his career. GS knows how to play against this current version of Houston and they know how to beat them as theyíve proven time and again. The Houston my trade creates presents a whole new set of problems for GS they havenít seen yet.

... Oh and it canít be stated enough. You get out of that terrible CP3 contract.

I wonít change your mind clearly and thatís ok. We can agree to disagree. I enjoyed the back and forth though. Educated analysis of ideas and proposals without the dismissive insults was fun.

JoBlowDownTheSt
06-13-2019, 05:52 AM
Its not happening