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More-Than-Most
05-28-2019, 10:16 AM
The newest article out involves the lakers but this isnt just a laker thing but a league thing considering who is part of this... I find this to be insanely shady all the way around

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1759314/report-lebrons-agent-complained-to-adam-silver-about-luke-walton


The Los Angeles Lakers continue to dominate headlines for the wrong reasons, as a report surfaced Tuesday morning which details how LeBron James' camp wanted the organization to fire now-former head coach Luke Walton.

During a November lunch meeting between Adam Silver and members of James' business team, the superstar's agent, Rich Paul, approached the league's commissioner to tell him that Walton wasn't the right coach for the Lakers, sources told ESPN's Baxter Holmes.

Silver reportedly shrugged off the comments and asked Paul who the right coach would be, to which James' agent apparently replied with Tyronn Lue - James' former bench boss with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Rumors persisted throughout the season that Walton's job was in jeopardy, but he ultimately didn't part ways with the Lakers until after their 37-45 campaign was complete. According to Holmes, Paul had back-channel discussions with media, during which he criticized Walton's lineup decisions and minutes distribution.

More-Than-Most
05-28-2019, 10:22 AM
in no way shape or form should an agent be able to go to the commissioner of the league and try to get a coach fired and get another one hired all for the player he represents.... not even if its a lebron james... this is insanely terrible.

ewing
05-28-2019, 10:22 AM
LeBron wouldn't use 'back channel" methods to be shady or manipulative. He's a good guy

Hawkeye15
05-28-2019, 10:24 AM
The NBA let itself become this way. They can live with it. Kinda like the US let ourselves become what we are, suck it up

ewing
05-28-2019, 10:26 AM
The NBA let itself become this way. They can live with it. Kinda like the US let ourselves become what we are, suck it up

your boyfriend ruined the league

warfelg
05-28-2019, 10:57 AM
Sad thing is this isn't even the craziest part of this story:

"There was one time when Kobe, who I worked with for 18 years, was going back to play in Madison Square Garden, and he had just seen 'The Dark Knight,'" Pelinka said. "Obviously, you guys saw that movie, and he's like, 'Hey, hook me up with dinner with Heath Ledger, because he got so locked into that role. I want to know how he mentally went there.' So, he had dinner with Heath, and he talked about how he locks in for a role.

"And Kobe used some of that in his game against the Knicks."

"The Dark Knight" was released in July 2008, six months after Ledger died. A source with direct knowledge said no such arrangement was made and no dinner ever took place.

smith&wesson
05-28-2019, 11:05 AM
in no way shape or form should an agent be able to go to the commissioner of the league and try to get a coach fired and get another one hired all for the player he represents.... not even if its a lebron james... this is insanely terrible.

Lebron is so spineless for this.. you have hundreds of millions of dollars, and have no issues with getting someone fired. Coaches donít get paid that much. Lebron pulling these strings is exactly why no one wants to go play with him. People realize what a control freak he really is and has no problem scapegoating others for his short comings. Disgusting. I hope the lakers strike out and roll out with the exact same team. **** this guy and his legacy

smith&wesson
05-28-2019, 11:09 AM
The NBA let itself become this way. They can live with it. Kinda like the US let ourselves become what we are, suck it up

Or make a change. . Silver should have said ďlisten Rich youíre an agent for players. You have no say in a franchiseí coaching decisions. Iíd advise you and your client to do more homework before you decide where he wants to sign and to ensure it is the best fit and best decision for him. Thanks for stopping byĒ gtfo lol

Hawkeye15
05-28-2019, 11:14 AM
your boyfriend ruined the league

oh this was coming dude.

Hawkeye15
05-28-2019, 11:15 AM
Or make a change. . Silver should have said ďlisten Rich youíre an agent for players. You have no say in a franchiseí coaching decisions. Iíd advise you and your client to do more homework before you decide where he wants to sign and to ensure it is the best fit and best decision for him. Thanks for stopping byĒ gtfo lol

problem is the revenue stream doesn't exist without the players being the front and center of the entire league. They control everything at this point.

Scoots
05-28-2019, 11:25 AM
LeBron wouldn't use 'back channel" methods to be shady or manipulative. He's a good guy

LeBron doesn't have a history of getting coaches fired and players traded for "his" replacement, his agent and his "people" do. This time it took down the coach, the GM, the training staff, and some players ... not done yet.

Chronz
05-28-2019, 11:31 AM
In other news, lebron makes teams greater with his intellect

Scoots
05-28-2019, 11:33 AM
problem is the revenue stream doesn't exist without the players being the front and center of the entire league. They control everything at this point.

Agents used to have a lot more power than they do now. Now the players have more power.

Chris Webber got Don Nelson fired in the 90s then left the team the next year anyhow. Nothing new.

I don't have an issue with players/agents WANTING more control, it's up to GMs, Presidents, and Owners to not give it to them.

beasted86
05-28-2019, 11:37 AM
Sad thing is this isn't even the craziest part of this story:

Surprise surprise an agent is a liar. That's a funny lie, but not surprising.

ewing
05-28-2019, 11:43 AM
oh this was coming dude.

leadership matters. LeBron is the most powerful person in the league. He set a very bad example

TrueFan420
05-28-2019, 11:44 AM
LeBron doesn't have a history of getting coaches fired and players traded for "his" replacement, his agent and his "people" do. This time it took down the coach, the GM, the training staff, and some players ... not done yet.

Not the GM heís still there. The president. Also heís likely shooting for ownership so he can try and buy.

smith&wesson
05-28-2019, 11:51 AM
In other news, lebron makes teams greater with his intellect

I like Frank Vogel. But I think lebron and his camp wanted Lue no ?

ewing
05-28-2019, 11:58 AM
In other news, lebron makes teams greater with his intellect

Nope. He is a moron. He makes teams better b/c he is really good at playing basketball.

Scoots
05-28-2019, 12:13 PM
Not the GM heís still there. The president. Also heís likely shooting for ownership so he can try and buy.

Yeah, mis-spoke. The GM may yet not survive though I suppose.

crewfan13
05-28-2019, 12:15 PM
leadership matters. LeBron is the most powerful person in the league. He set a very bad example

How is this a bad example? LeBron the GM hasn't been very good. I'll fully admit that. But to his defense, alot of that was born out of incompetence by the cavs organization. They had years to build a team around him when he was young. They couldnt do it. AD has gone through the same thing in NO. Why do we expect great players to rot on bad teams under inept leadership?

Admittedly, as a fan of a team like the bucks, stars having all the power kind of sucks and is scary. Giannis has the power to basically tell the bucks what he wants them to do. And it sucks because he can tell them sign all of these guys and if it doesn't work, he can just leave and blame management for not building a team around him.

But I don't get why we expect players not to do that. We judge legacies on championships won, but we expect players to just live with the crappy management or coaching decisions they are dealt.

Look at AD like I said. But in a different light, look at a kemba walker. He's not a superstar, but he's never been given even a remotely competent team. Would our opinions of him be different if he somehow ended up in San Antonio and played alongside kawhi for 2-3 years as a 2nd fiddle? Probably. But hes just rotted on a trash team for years.

ewing
05-28-2019, 12:26 PM
How is this a bad example? LeBron the GM hasn't been very good. I'll fully admit that. But to his defense, alot of that was born out of incompetence by the cavs organization. They had years to build a team around him when he was young. They couldnt do it. AD has gone through the same thing in NO. Why do we expect great players to rot on bad teams under inept leadership?

Admittedly, as a fan of a team like the bucks, stars having all the power kind of sucks and is scary. Giannis has the power to basically tell the bucks what he wants them to do. And it sucks because he can tell them sign all of these guys and if it doesn't work, he can just leave and blame management for not building a team around him.

But I don't get why we expect players not to do that. We judge legacies on championships won, but we expect players to just live with the crappy management or coaching decisions they are dealt.

Look at AD like I said. But in a different light, look at a kemba walker. He's not a superstar, but he's never been given even a remotely competent team. Would our opinions of him be different if he somehow ended up in San Antonio and played alongside kawhi for 2-3 years as a 2nd fiddle? Probably. But hes just rotted on a trash team for years.
What he should do is shut up and play out his contract

crewfan13
05-28-2019, 01:02 PM
What he should do is shut up and play out his contract

Again, this is so dumb. We judge him on how much he wins but he shouldn't use the power he has to help his team win. If his organization hires someone incompetent, then he should just sit back and let it happen.

ewing
05-28-2019, 01:13 PM
Again, this is so dumb. We judge him on how much he wins but he shouldn't use the power he has to help his team win. If his organization hires someone incompetent, then he should just sit back and let it happen.

Yes. LeBron should not get to pick all his co-workers. You and him are just entitled

SiteWolf
05-28-2019, 01:28 PM
Yet in the past, when I've said that players and agents have too much control in sports (in particular the NBA) I've been told categorically that I was wrong.

Players make more than coaches, making it harder to coach. Some players make astronomically more, giving them at least indirect control of who their coach is. Then there's the LeBrons...even the league thinks they need to bend to his desires.

warfelg
05-28-2019, 01:41 PM
Surprise surprise an agent is a liar. That's a funny lie, but not surprising.

Not surprising an agent lies, but that's a significant lie to tell.

Chronz
05-28-2019, 02:04 PM
I like Frank Vogel. But I think lebron and his camp wanted Lue no ?

k, lets just not make mountains outta molehills


Nope. He is a moron. He makes teams better b/c he is really good at playing basketball.
disagree, one of the greatest basketball minds ever, hes always been good at basketball, its when he exerts his will on the franchise that they win chips.

ewing
05-28-2019, 02:14 PM
disagree, one of the greatest basketball minds ever, hes always been good at basketball, its when he exerts his will on the franchise that they win chips.

dumb as a stump

crewfan13
05-28-2019, 02:25 PM
Yet in the past, when I've said that players and agents have too much control in sports (in particular the NBA) I've been told categorically that I was wrong.

Players make more than coaches, making it harder to coach. Some players make astronomically more, giving them at least indirect control of who their coach is. Then there's the LeBrons...even the league thinks they need to bend to his desires.

Maybe it's because the players are significantly more important than a coach.

crewfan13
05-28-2019, 02:31 PM
Yes. LeBron should not get to pick all his co-workers. You and him are just entitled

LOL. You're probably just jealous that you aren't valuable enough to your org for them to actually take your input on organizational decisions.

If a player is good enough that a franchise is willing to listen to their input on coaching, player and GM decisions, they should absolutely consider it, especially considering the league is filled with incompetent front office folks who run franchises into the ground regularly.

ewing
05-28-2019, 02:50 PM
LOL. You're probably just jealous that you aren't valuable enough to your org for them to actually take your input on organizational decisions.

If a player is good enough that a franchise is willing to listen to their input on coaching, player and GM decisions, they should absolutely consider it, especially considering the league is filled with incompetent front office folks who run franchises into the ground regularly.

but he's an idiot

Hawkeye15
05-28-2019, 02:58 PM
but he's an idiot

I would rather be rich and stupid than smart and broke

RowBTrice
05-28-2019, 03:01 PM
lebron has ruined the NBA.

crewfan13
05-28-2019, 03:03 PM
but he's an idiot

And while untrue, it doesn't matter if he's an idiot or not. You can think his GM style decisions suck while still recognizing he's earned that right by being the single most important peice of any franchise he's part of.

Your rationale also implies that the coaches and GMs hired by orgs without players input are all competent. They are not.

JAZZNC
05-28-2019, 04:51 PM
I would rather be rich and stupid than smart and broke

I'm just broke, dumb, and incredibly good looking. Guess it could be worse.

warfelg
05-28-2019, 04:55 PM
I'm just broke, dumb, and incredibly good looking. Guess it could be worse.

Ashton Kutcher? Is that you? :rimshot:

JAZZNC
05-28-2019, 04:57 PM
And while untrue, it doesn't matter if he's an idiot or not. You can think his GM style decisions suck while still recognizing he's earned that right by being the single most important peice of any franchise he's part of.

Your rationale also implies that the coaches and GMs hired by orgs without players input are all competent. They are not.

The only problem is that most of his "GM decisions" work ok while he's there because he's so good but when he leaves they are crippling (at the very least costly) to your franchise. I mean I applaud the Lakers for not bending to LBJs will on Lue. Why would the give a guy a 5yr deal when he very obviously can't coach and is just a LeBron yes man? If they had done that you end up with a guy that you have to fire (and pay) as soon as LeBron leaves. And they will likely end up trading a bunch of assets for the future for an guy like AD who will lead your team exactly nowhere when LeBron leaves. I dunno. LeBron is great and may have earned the right to make decisions but that doesn't make the decisions right or smart.

IKnowHoops
05-28-2019, 06:02 PM
dumb as a stump

What is your IQ?

SiteWolf
05-28-2019, 06:47 PM
LOL. You're probably just jealous that you aren't valuable enough to your org for them to actually take your input on organizational decisions.

If a player is good enough that a franchise is willing to listen to their input on coaching, player and GM decisions, they should absolutely consider it, especially considering the league is filled with incompetent front office folks who run franchises into the ground regularly.

And players, who have never held a job in their lives, are somehow more qualified to make large business decisions? More valuable to an organization or not, they're not somehow better businessmen or talent evaluators.

Scoots
05-28-2019, 06:51 PM
The only problem is that most of his "GM decisions" work ok while he's there because he's so good but when he leaves they are crippling (at the very least costly) to your franchise. I mean I applaud the Lakers for not bending to LBJs will on Lue. Why would the give a guy a 5yr deal when he very obviously can't coach and is just a LeBron yes man? If they had done that you end up with a guy that you have to fire (and pay) as soon as LeBron leaves. And they will likely end up trading a bunch of assets for the future for an guy like AD who will lead your team exactly nowhere when LeBron leaves. I dunno. LeBron is great and may have earned the right to make decisions but that doesn't make the decisions right or smart.

Yes. Also, we should all acknowledge that LeBron went to the Lakers because he wanted to play in LA and they were the more malleable franchise than the Clippers. By LeBron's decision the Lakers planes went out the window, so any plan to build a team for the long haul was scrapped. They refused to sign anything but 1 year deals which lost them good players and politics that come with LeBron cost them others. Teams of players where half of them are trying to get a bigger contract elsewhere in the next year and the other half are on rookie deals are doomed from the start without extremely strong leadership and what they saw was the star player manipulating the front office, trying to get rid of the coach, throwing his teammates under the bus, and, oh yeah, talking about buying the team himself some day, and supposedly being more interested in his other LA pursuits than basketball.

LeBron is an INCREDIBLE basketball player when healthy and engaged. And for that he's worth a lot ... I just don't think the Lakers were up to the challenge of managing what he was going to bring with him.

YAALREADYKNO
05-28-2019, 07:58 PM
ďLebron is the goat, but KD needs to leave and Kawhi, Kyrie, and AD needs to join him so he can win againĒ
-Shannon Sharpe

ďKDís move was weak...but he should come to LA to play with LebronĒ
-Nick Wright

crewfan13
05-28-2019, 08:17 PM
And players, who have never held a job in their lives, are somehow more qualified to make large business decisions? More valuable to an organization or not, they're not somehow better businessmen or talent evaluators.

And agent with no front office experience Rob pelinka is more qualified as a talent evaluator? Or legendary player who's basically failed at many business ventures in magic Johnson is more qualified? Or the front office who had LeBron fall into their lap as the first pick only to surround him with supporting casts of Mo Williams and antwaan Jamison at best were more qualified?

Or what about the front office that has had 7 years with Anthony Davis to only give him a bad fit Demarcus cousins as his other star?

Or what about front offices in Phoenix, sacramento, Memphis and a bunch of other places who've wallowed in mediocrity for years? Heck, I'm a bucks fan and the only reason we won our first playoff series in 18 years was because we drafted a wild card, unknown from Greece who turned into an elite star.

To act like the players who are exerting their will are undermining these great front offices is just wrong. The nba is about stars. If you get stars, you can succeed. Other stars can help get stars. They are probably just as qualified to do that as half the front office people.

cmellofan15
05-28-2019, 09:40 PM
Fantastic drop in dude. Really good addition to the conversation.

You should hear him talk basketball. Same kind of hard hitting analysis

Scoots
05-29-2019, 12:09 AM
ďLebron is the goat, but KD needs to leave and Kawhi, Kyrie, and AD needs to join him so he can win againĒ
-Shannon Sharpe

ďKDís move was weak...but he should come to LA to play with LebronĒ
-Nick Wright

hehe

Scoots
05-29-2019, 12:11 AM
And agent with no front office experience Rob pelinka is more qualified as a talent evaluator? Or legendary player who's basically failed at many business ventures in magic Johnson is more qualified? Or the front office who had LeBron fall into their lap as the first pick only to surround him with supporting casts of Mo Williams and antwaan Jamison at best were more qualified?

Or what about the front office that has had 7 years with Anthony Davis to only give him a bad fit Demarcus cousins as his other star?

Or what about front offices in Phoenix, sacramento, Memphis and a bunch of other places who've wallowed in mediocrity for years? Heck, I'm a bucks fan and the only reason we won our first playoff series in 18 years was because we drafted a wild card, unknown from Greece who turned into an elite star.

To act like the players who are exerting their will are undermining these great front offices is just wrong. The nba is about stars. If you get stars, you can succeed. Other stars can help get stars. They are probably just as qualified to do that as half the front office people.

Memphis actually had some success fairly recently.

ewing
05-29-2019, 05:54 AM
You should hear him talk basketball. Same kind of hard hitting analysis

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heediot
05-29-2019, 09:35 AM
Chronz I know your a bron defender. But dude is a manipulative snake douche. He's a extreme opportunist (like MJ), but he's worse in how he throws he mates under the bus and how he gets others to do his dirty work for him. Trust issue, control freak, that is too caught up in his own image/legacy,

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 10:03 AM
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dunno what theyíre talking about. Iíve enjoyed our discussions in the past.

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 10:05 AM
Chronz I know your a bron defender. But dude is a manipulative snake douche. He's a extreme opportunist (like MJ), but he's worse in how he throws he mates under the bus and how he gets others to do his dirty work for him. Trust issue, control freak, that is too caught up in his own image/legacy,

Yes and yes.

I love him as a player. But the crap he does off court is so distasteful.

crewfan13
05-29-2019, 10:12 AM
Memphis actually had some success fairly recently.

True, but that success netted them at best a 4th place finish in the west and 1 trip to the conference finals where they got swept. And now they're back in a rebuild and have to give up a what could be a high lottery pick that they still owe in a trade. They aren't the worst run franchise by any means, but it's hard to say their front office and personnel decisions have been great.

But that's beside the point. Outside of San Antonio, who's really sustaining success through multiple groups. The formula is land a star or two, usually in the draft, and they recruit more stars to join.

What did LA do before LeBron got their in recent years? They drafted a few guys high in the draft who haven't developed all that much and who they were foolishly unwilling to part with for stars. Outside of LeBron, they've struck in in FA for a few years. Why should LeBron just shut up and let those same people run the org?

And it's not just him. It's alot of stars. That star or playing alongside that star is what makes a place attractive in the nba. Is Milwaukee a free agent hub right now? Probably not, but the idea of playing alongside giannis makes it infinitely more attractive than it was 5-10 years earlier. And that's almost entirely due to the presence of giannis. If those guys are a wildly disproportionately large part of the equation, why should they not exert their power and get guys they want?

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 10:17 AM
k, lets just not make mountains outta molehills.

Iím not. You said he makes teams better with his intellect. In the context of getting Walton fired. Alls Iím saying is if that were the case they would have hired the guy he wanted. If the move was infact based on his decision and or intellect as you put it.

I still have Lebron as the best player in the world. I just donít see why he throws his weight around the way he does. He needs to trust the organization he signed up to play for. Everyone knew they werenít going to be very good this year with the make up of the team. His injury all but guaranteed them to miss the playoffs. You would think those things would occur to him for year one with the Lakers instead of scapegoating a coach. Which coach could have lead this team to the playoffs with lebron being injured for the amount of time that he was ?

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 10:21 AM
LOL. You're probably just jealous that you aren't valuable enough to your org for them to actually take your input on organizational decisions.

If a player is good enough that a franchise is willing to listen to their input on coaching, player and GM decisions, they should absolutely consider it, especially considering the league is filled with incompetent front office folks who run franchises into the ground regularly.

You mean like how lebron pushed the cavs to give Tristan Thompson and Jr Smith ridiculous contracts ??? And then lebron leaves ? Youíre right every organization should be lucky to have a player with such stroke of genius.

.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2019, 10:27 AM
You mean like how lebron pushed the cavs to give Tristan Thompson and Jr Smith ridiculous contracts ??? And then lebron leaves ? Youíre right every organization should be lucky to have a player with such stroke of genius.

.

Being on the player side, you might be aware of, and have some understanding of the cap, but you don't look more than 1 year out, ever. Big difference in "intellect" from different perspectives.

crewfan13
05-29-2019, 10:43 AM
You mean like how lebron pushed the cavs to give Tristan Thompson and Jr Smith ridiculous contracts ??? And then lebron leaves ? Youíre right every organization should be lucky to have a player with such stroke of genius.

.

Or the same LeBron that won them their only title in franchise history? And they only have that ring because after lebron left, they stunk bad enough to win the lotto and end up with 3 number 1 picks, 1 of which was kyrie and 2 that turned into love.

You don't think cavs fans would take bad contracts 20 times out of 20 to get the only ring in franchise history and also get multiple other finals appearances?

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 10:48 AM
Being on the player side, you might be aware of, and have some understanding of the cap, but you don't look more than 1 year out, ever. Big difference in "intellect" from different perspectives.

I think the word ďintellectĒ was miss used here all together. Letís face it some of these players didnít even go to college. Lebron has a great basketball iq. Thereís no question there. But heís not a gm, and when he demanded for those players to get paid it handicapped their ability to rebuild around lebron. That and the fact that Irving totally bailed. I think thereís a huge difference between being smart and being a smart ***.

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 10:49 AM
Or the same LeBron that won them their only title in franchise history? And they only have that ring because after lebron left, they stunk bad enough to win the lotto and end up with 3 number 1 picks, 1 of which was kyrie and 2 that turned into love.

You don't think cavs fans would take bad contracts 20 times out of 20 to get the only ring in franchise history and also get multiple other finals appearances?

Lebron didnít do that alone. And that speaks to his talent on the court. Not his ďintellectĒ off of it

Also, are you really crediting lebron for leaving the cavs the first time ? You say that as if Lebron planned to leave and expected the cavs to get all those first round picks. Iíve never seen a player get credited this way. Itís astonishing that youíre praising a guy who bailed on his team and crediting him for the team being so bad that they got consecutive picks as a result. Incredible.

JR Smith and Thompson are role players. Easily replaceable ones at that.. youíre giving them entirely way to much credit

Hawkeye15
05-29-2019, 11:00 AM
I think the word ďintellectĒ was miss used here all together. Letís face it some of these players didnít even go to college. Lebron has a great basketball iq. Thereís no question there. But heís not a gm, and when he demanded for those players to get paid it handicapped their ability to rebuild around lebron. That and the fact that Irving totally bailed. I think thereís a huge difference between being smart and being a smart ***.

going to college doesn't make you smart, but it does give you the ability to acquire knowledge. LeBron is a good businessman, but yeah, I was agreeing with you to some extent. Maybe he will be a good FO guy, but from his perspective as a player, he isn't going to make good decisions when it comes to the cap on his roster.

Rivera
05-29-2019, 11:04 AM
do we really care about this? or our we fake outraged?

I mean cool, who cares?

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 11:16 AM
going to college doesn't make you smart, but it does give you the ability to acquire knowledge. LeBron is a good businessman, but yeah, I was agreeing with you to some extent. Maybe he will be a good FO guy, but from his perspective as a player, he isn't going to make good decisions when it comes to the cap on his roster.

Youíre right it doesnít. But high school being your highest level of education doesnít make you an intellect either.

Itís easy to be a business man when youíre a walking brand. Weíre talking about a guy who got a $100 mill from Nike at 18 before he ever bounced a ball on an nba court. Iíll give you that same money and ask you to make some investments or have people lined up to endorse you. I bet you come out looking like a great businessman too. All this equates to him being a highly valuable asset due to his talent. Not his intellect.

He's made decisions based on him. His best chance to win that year. He doesnít care if those contracts handicap a team moving forward because his formula has always been to just bail to another team. Did it twice to the Cavs once to the Heat. He wanted young players (Wiggins/Bennet)+ picks traded for Love. Now he wants Ingram/Kuzma etc + picks to be traded for Davis. He wanted Blatt gone now he called for Waltonís head.

I just think itís old and the rest of the league knows whatís up, hence why the Lakers are having a hard time building around him. Until some other spineless guy like Durant bails them out

ewing
05-29-2019, 11:21 AM
going to college doesn't make you smart, but it does give you the ability to acquire knowledge. LeBron is a good businessman, but yeah, I was agreeing with you to some extent. Maybe he will be a good FO guy, but from his perspective as a player, he isn't going to make good decisions when it comes to the cap on his roster.

Letís stop the BS. LeBron is a basketball player. That platform he was given as a basketball player has given him everything. Heís not a great business man or an actor or smart. He is historically good at basketball


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smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 11:23 AM
do we really care about this? or our we fake outraged?

I mean cool, who cares?

His pattern is so painfully obvious. But youíre right itís def a fake outrage lol.

I would have liked to see him finish his career in a better way though as I am a lebron fan. I just think these sorta things he gets tied to are way beneath him. Like getting a coach fired in an irrelevant year.

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 11:23 AM
Letís stop the BS. LeBron is a basketball player. That platform he was given as a basketball player has given him everything. Heís not a great business man or an actor or smart. He is historically good at basketball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

💯

Rivera
05-29-2019, 11:39 AM
His pattern is so painfully obvious. But youíre right itís def a fake outrage lol.

I would have liked to see him finish his career in a better way though as I am a lebron fan. I just think these sorta things he gets tied to are way beneath him. Like getting a coach fired in an irrelevant year.

i mean i get it. but the TOP players have had power for years, before LBJ. Hes just the first one as the TOP player in the social media era.


If people is outraged, and post why cool. Others, especially in this social media era, tend to follow the trend and just pile on. Im wondering whos really upset by this vs whos being fake upset

Cause I would ask those who were upset, how does this affect you or your team?

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 11:49 AM
i mean i get it. but the TOP players have had power for years, before LBJ. Hes just the first one as the TOP player in the social media era.


If people is outraged, and post why cool. Others, especially in this social media era, tend to follow the trend and just pile on. Im wondering whos really upset by this vs whos being fake upset

Cause I would ask those who were upset, how does this affect you or your team?

Thatís fair. Iíve always said lebron deals with more scrutiny because heís the first nba super star that really grew up in the social media era. Iím with you on that.

Star players have always had power to an extent. But heís not above using that power even when itís peti.. having a coach fired in a year thatís completely irrelevant should be beneath Lebron, but itís not. Some of the back lash on social media is self inflected as a result.

smith&wesson
05-29-2019, 11:50 AM
But youíre right. Kawhi doesnít even go on social media and was a target for a year and a half simply for putting his health first. Players seem to get scrutinized no matter what they do in this era and thatís something to consider as well.

Rivera
05-29-2019, 12:02 PM
Thatís fair. Iíve always said lebron deals with more scrutiny because heís the first nba super star that really grew up in the social media era. Iím with you on that.

Star players have always had power to an extent. But heís not above using that power even when itís peti.. having a coach fired in a year thatís completely irrelevant should be beneath Lebron, but itís not. Some of the back lash on social media is self inflected as a result.

I cant speak for other posters in this thread, but I live in the "real world". And what I mean by that is your point about "firing a coach in a year should be beneath LeBron". In my role, ive seen high level executives get regular workers who are more towards the bottom fired because they dont like them. Ive seen high level executives set up other high level executives and build a case to them, constantly go to the VP and other higher ups to get that person fired. It should be beneath them as well considering their stature but its not.

People want to be comfortable, like who they work with, and people dont want other people pushing/tempering/challenging/trying to take power from people in power.

but this is why we are fans, because fans are short for fanatics, and we go crazy for the sports/teams/players we love and will look for ways to villify people we hate. its just life, even at your normal job.

thank god ive gotten older and learned how to balance life, what to get outraged and what not to get outraged about

crewfan13
05-29-2019, 12:55 PM
Lebron didnít do that alone. And that speaks to his talent on the court. Not his ďintellectĒ off of it

Also, are you really crediting lebron for leaving the cavs the first time ? You say that as if Lebron planned to leave and expected the cavs to get all those first round picks. Iíve never seen a player get credited this way. Itís astonishing that youíre praising a guy who bailed on his team and crediting him for the team being so bad that they got consecutive picks as a result. Incredible.

JR Smith and Thompson are role players. Easily replaceable ones at that.. youíre giving them entirely way to much credit

I'm not crediting him, I'm saying that's how dysfunctional management for that org was. The only way they could build a contender around lebron was to luck into a bunch of first overall picks.The point is that I've never said lebrons GM decisions have been good. But thats basically true of quite a few front offices.

Sure JR and TT were bad signings. But look around the league. Basically every single team has bad signings. Guys like Tim Hardaway, Tony snell, mozgov, crabbe, batum, both plumlees and a ton of other contracts get added around the league every single year. And this year, there will be teams who kiss out on the major FAs, have money and overspend on mediocre guys. It always happens and it will continue to happen.

And that's my point. It's not that lebron is a great GM. But to act like there's 30 great GMs out there and players having say is undermining these great individuals is just wrong.

And that's my point. I don't think that lebron is a great GM. But I also think there's some bad GMs out there too, and lebron in particular, has dealt with some bad ones. So to act like players shouldn't have an impact in this league where they are the product and they are disproportionately important is foolish. It's not crossing a line to exert your will on a franchise especially when alot of the franchises that these guys are exerting their will on have failed the players. Again take AD as an example. Should be just wallow in mediocrity because his management team can't build a winner around him? Or does there come a point where he should try to take matters into his own hands when they've failed him for 7 years?

ewing
05-29-2019, 02:24 PM
I'm not crediting him, I'm saying that's how dysfunctional management for that org was. The only way they could build a contender around lebron was to luck into a bunch of first overall picks.The point is that I've never said lebrons GM decisions have been good. But thats basically true of quite a few front offices.

Sure JR and TT were bad signings. But look around the league. Basically every single team has bad signings. Guys like Tim Hardaway, Tony snell, mozgov, crabbe, batum, both plumlees and a ton of other contracts get added around the league every single year. And this year, there will be teams who kiss out on the major FAs, have money and overspend on mediocre guys. It always happens and it will continue to happen.

And that's my point. It's not that lebron is a great GM. But to act like there's 30 great GMs out there and players having say is undermining these great individuals is just wrong.

And that's my point. I don't think that lebron is a great GM. But I also think there's some bad GMs out there too, and lebron in particular, has dealt with some bad ones. So to act like players shouldn't have an impact in this league where they are the product and they are disproportionately important is foolish. It's not crossing a line to exert your will on a franchise especially when alot of the franchises that these guys are exerting their will on have failed the players. Again take AD as an example. Should be just wallow in mediocrity because his management team can't build a winner around him? Or does there come a point where he should try to take matters into his own hands when they've failed him for 7 years?

When he is a free agent


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smith&wesson
05-31-2019, 10:22 AM
I cant speak for other posters in this thread, but I live in the "real world". And what I mean by that is your point about "firing a coach in a year should be beneath LeBron". In my role, ive seen high level executives get regular workers who are more towards the bottom fired because they dont like them. Ive seen high level executives set up other high level executives and build a case to them, constantly go to the VP and other higher ups to get that person fired. It should be beneath them as well considering their stature but its not.

People want to be comfortable, like who they work with, and people dont want other people pushing/tempering/challenging/trying to take power from people in power.

but this is why we are fans, because fans are short for fanatics, and we go crazy for the sports/teams/players we love and will look for ways to villify people we hate. its just life, even at your normal job.

thank god ive gotten older and learned how to balance life, what to get outraged and what not to get outraged about

I get it. But again the reality is Lebron knew this year was a wash when he got hurt anyway. To scapegoat the coach when the make up of the roster was clearly to blame is a deflection that wasnít needed. In any case I think Waltonís days were numbered and it was inevitable that he was going to be fired so I guess they wanted to get it out of the way.

mightybosstone
05-31-2019, 01:41 PM
problem is the revenue stream doesn't exist without the players being the front and center of the entire league. They control everything at this point.

Shouldn't they be, though? If they're the ones making the owners of the league billions of dollars, they ought to have more say in how things are run.

That being said, I don't know that an agent should be able to go to the league's commissioner and get a player fired. But I'm not so sure that's necessarily what happened here. If Lebron wanted Walton fired, all he had to do was go to the Lakers' front office and say, "I want a coaching change or I'm out."

Hawkeye15
05-31-2019, 01:48 PM
Shouldn't they be, though? If they're the ones making the owners of the league billions of dollars, they ought to have more say in how things are run.

That being said, I don't know that an agent should be able to go to the league's commissioner and get a player fired. But I'm not so sure that's necessarily what happened here. If Lebron wanted Walton fired, all he had to do was go to the Lakers' front office and say, "I want a coaching change or I'm out."

I mean, it's a union. Follows the same rules as any union would, only more money is at stake. The players should have plenty of control, but they are more replaceable than billionaires at the end of the day.

mightybosstone
05-31-2019, 02:13 PM
I mean, it's a union. Follows the same rules as any union would, only more money is at stake. The players should have plenty of control, but they are more replaceable than billionaires at the end of the day.

Are they, though? If an owner wakes up tomorrow and says "I'm out," that team will get sold and bought by someone else, and it might have zero impact on the team or the league. But if a superstar player wakes up tomorrow and says "I'm going play in Europe. Later," that player's team is screwed and it's a huge black mark on the league.

Your league is only as good as your talent, and superstar athletes mean more to the success of the NBA than they do in any other sport. IMO, star athletes should have more of the power in the league. We just don't like it because it goes against how we think of businesses being run as a society. In almost any other business, the most important person is the person writing the paychecks at the top, but those guys don't really drive the success of the league in the NBA. The star players do.

Hawkeye15
05-31-2019, 02:29 PM
Are they, though? If an owner wakes up tomorrow and says "I'm out," that team will get sold and bought by someone else, and it might have zero impact on the team or the league. But if a superstar player wakes up tomorrow and says "I'm going play in Europe. Later," that player's team is screwed and it's a huge black mark on the league.

Your league is only as good as your talent, and superstar athletes mean more to the success of the NBA than they do in any other sport. IMO, star athletes should have more of the power in the league. We just don't like it because it goes against how we think of businesses being run as a society. In almost any other business, the most important person is the person writing the paychecks at the top, but those guys don't really drive the success of the league in the NBA. The star players do.

yes, the players are easily more replaceable than billionaires. While I understand where your point is coming from, without billionaires (and there aren't many), sports leagues at the highest level would struggle.

People are mindless drones. Fans may get pissed in the moment, but they always come back.

mightybosstone
05-31-2019, 02:41 PM
yes, the players are easily more replaceable than billionaires. While I understand where your point is coming from, without billionaires (and there aren't many), sports leagues at the highest level would struggle.
According to Forbes, there are 607 billionaires in the U.S. in 2019. If one billionaire bails, another will take his/her place. And that's only counting American billionaires. There are probably billionaires in other countries who'd love to own an NBA franchise; plus NBA teams are often run by groups of individuals (some of them not billionaires at all), so consider all those lowly millionaires out there willing to dish out some dollars to own 10% of a franchise.

Meanwhile, there are how many legitimate NBA superstars in the league right now? 8-10? I guarantee you that if those 8-10 players up and decided they wanted to play in Europe tomorrow, that would have a FAR greater impact on the league than if 8-10 owners decided they wanted to sell their teams.


People are mindless drones. Fans may get pissed in the moment, but they always come back.
Maybe? But fans will only watch if the product is entertaining and they believe they're watching the greatest athletes in the world. If the talent isn't there, they won't care (I'm looking at you MLS). Just because you have a product for people to consume doesn't mean they have to consume it. There's a reason why franchises that win more games are generally more profitable and sell more tickets than franchises that are in the bottom third of the league every season.

cmellofan15
05-31-2019, 03:33 PM
Letís stop the BS. LeBron is a basketball player. That platform he was given as a basketball player has given him everything. Heís not a great business man or an actor or smart. He is historically good at basketball


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hahahahahahahahahahahaha you are so precious. lebron wins rings, stimulates economies of entire cities, changed the entire financial landscape of the nba, and puts kids in colleges.

i bet you miss the good ol days when lebron would have had to drink out of a different water fountain don't ya??

ewing
05-31-2019, 04:31 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahaha you are so precious. lebron wins rings, stimulates economies of entire cities, changed the entire financial landscape of the nba, and puts kids in colleges.

i bet you miss the good ol days when lebron would have had to drink out of a different water fountain don't ya??

youre a weird guy

beasted86
06-01-2019, 07:02 PM
Letís stop the BS. LeBron is a basketball player. That platform he was given as a basketball player has given him everything. Heís not a great business man or an actor or smart. He is historically good at basketball


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That's a stupid way to limit a person. By that analogy Martha Stewart was just good at teaching how to be a homemaker. Kim Kardashian only good at doing amateur porn.

If you take $100 and turn it into $1000 you deserve much of the credit because there's too many that have squandered their image and money, IE: Iverson. Nobody is arguing LeBron or Kim Kardashian are geniuses at economics, but they have enough sense to understand who to put around them, the basics of marketing, and how to manage their money.

flea
06-01-2019, 08:16 PM
He needs more help.

ewing
06-02-2019, 06:51 AM
That's a stupid way to limit a person. By that analogy Martha Stewart was just good at teaching how to be a homemaker. Kim Kardashian only good at doing amateur porn.

If you take $100 and turn it into $1000 you deserve much of the credit because there's too many that have squandered their image and money, IE: Iverson. Nobody is arguing LeBron or Kim Kardashian are geniuses at economics, but they have enough sense to understand who to put around them, the basics of marketing, and how to manage their money.

Iím not limiting him. Heís the annoying entitled child. Iím not calling him a great business man bc he managed not to squander the millions of dollars that have been thrown at him. Heís a basketball player. Thatís not an insult. He a stupid basketball player that wants me to think he is a renaissance man now that is an insult


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warfelg
06-02-2019, 07:31 AM
So Adam Silver called out the situation in his pre-finals interview. Said how it's basically disturbing to him that an agent had such deep access, and he was glad the AD trade backfired.

Gsmith
06-02-2019, 05:32 PM
Lots to comment on, but I'll try to address a few points such as players are easily replaceable than billionaires, team success does not equal value, the most important person in the business, and the philosophical superstars to Europe exodus. This is not an organized response.


According to Forbes, there are 607 billionaires in the U.S. in 2019. If one billionaire bails, another will take his/her place. And that's only counting American billionaires. There are probably billionaires in other countries who'd love to own an NBA franchise; plus NBA teams are often run by groups of individuals (some of them not billionaires at all), so consider all those lowly millionaires out there willing to dish out some dollars to own 10% of a franchise.


Are they, though? If an owner wakes up tomorrow and says "I'm out," that team will get sold and bought by someone else, and it might have zero impact on the team or the league. But if a superstar player wakes up tomorrow and says "I'm going play in Europe. Later," that player's team is screwed and it's a huge black mark on the league.


Your league is only as good as your talent, and superstar athletes mean more to the success of the NBA than they do in any other sport. IMO, star athletes should have more of the power in the league. We just don't like it because it goes against how we think of businesses being run as a society. In almost any other business, the most important person is the person writing the paychecks at the top, but those guys don't really drive the success of the league in the NBA. The star players do.



Meanwhile, there are how many legitimate NBA superstars in the league right now? 8-10? I guarantee you that if those 8-10 players up and decided they wanted to play in Europe tomorrow, that would have a FAR greater impact on the league than if 8-10 owners decided they wanted to sell their teams.


1. For the argument of billionaires are more replaceable than players; It's not about how many billionaires there are, it's about a smaller group of wealthy owners that can withstand losses longer than a larger group of rich players. The highest profile player, Lebron James is not a billionaire. In a strike, the lowly millionaires can hold out longer, and retain ownership rights, more than the NBA player who has an average 3 year career and can only get their maximum valued contract within a 5 year window. The owners aren't trying to sway the 8-10 superstars to accept the union deal, they are trying to sway players 8-12 on the bench of each team. If Rockets' Tillman Fertitta doesn't make any money during an NBA year, he still has his other businesses. If Houston player doesn't make money during any NBA year, they probably can't generate comparable profits.

2. Profit can come with success but they are not dependent on each other. The most valuable NBA franchise is the New York Knicks. Literally every other team is more successful but less valuable. David Stern/CP3/Lakers trade shows how ownership change can affect the league. Even if GSW win they still need to see if the current team success is worth the expenses of the roster/depth, venue change, and long term vision.

3. While the owner may not drive the success of the league, they get the financial risks and benefits. The Wizards still have to pay Wall his contract whether he over or under preforms and the financial losses from his absence. Some would argue that going with the cap spike vs smoothing (led by cp3/lebron) only benefited the top superstars at that present time at the expense of the future.

4. The philosophical superstar(s) going to Europe has its own challenges. How does the superstar get the equivalent of the super-max from the Euro club? How does this affect their personal branding/endorsements if they are not playing the top competition, or not having the exposure and access to NBA streaming revenue? Will all 8-10 superstars go to the same league? It's an MLS argument of NBA talent in Europe. The NBA survived a season without Kawhi as a superstar.

I hope my replies were commenting on your intended points.

beasted86
06-03-2019, 02:00 PM
Iím not limiting him. Heís the annoying entitled child. Iím not calling him a great business man bc he managed not to squander the millions of dollars that have been thrown at him. Heís a basketball player. Thatís not an insult. He a stupid basketball player that wants me to think he is a renaissance man now that is an insult


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What makes LeBron entitled? He wants control? He wants his work to be easier? Isn't that what we all want? There are a lot of character flaws with LeBron but he's not worse than anyone else.

But as far as stating he's just a basketball player, I disagree. He can be primarily known as a basketball player, but also be a successful entrepreneur. Magic Johnson has proven this. There are tons of other cases.

ewing
06-03-2019, 05:23 PM
What makes LeBron entitled? He wants control? He wants his work to be easier? Isn't that what we all want? There are a lot of character flaws with LeBron but he's not worse than anyone else.

But as far as stating he's just a basketball player, I disagree. He can be primarily known as a basketball player, but also be a successful entrepreneur. Magic Johnson has proven this. There are tons of other cases.

Yes he is. He is a giant baby and an attention whore that takes no responsibility for loses and consistently throws his teammates under the bus. He is a great basketball player but a immature brat.


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beasted86
06-03-2019, 10:48 PM
Yes he is. He is a giant baby and an attention whore that takes no responsibility for loses and consistently throws his teammates under the bus. He is a great basketball player but a immature brat.


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He wants attention, he has an inflated ego, and he's a bad co-worker. I think everyone has one of these co-workers already if you work in an office environment. I'm sure you don't spend your nights badmouthing those people. Call me when LeBron does something worth being called a bad person for. Maybe being a really dirty play or fighting a teammate or cheating or using drugs. If this is all you have, then no way is he worse than anyone else.

In other news, Jay-Z is a billionaire. I guess he's just a rapper........ meanwhile his champagne company, art work collection, and management company all make more money than his music does.

ewing
06-04-2019, 06:16 AM
He wants attention, he has an inflated ego, and he's a bad co-worker. I think everyone has one of these co-workers already if you work in an office environment. I'm sure you don't spend your nights badmouthing those people. Call me when LeBron does something worth being called a bad person for. Maybe being a really dirty play or fighting a teammate or cheating or using drugs. If this is all you have, then no way is he worse than anyone else.

In other news, Jay-Z is a billionaire. I guess he's just a rapper........ meanwhile his champagne company, art work collection, and management company all make more money than his music does.

I donít work with him and I already talk ****. Iím sure most people who played with LeBron talk trash about him when they gets home. Why do you think no one wants to play with him anymore and no one wants to be in his stupid space jam movie? He just tried to trade his whole team mid season for the second year in a row. He got injured and showed up for the game late with a glass of wine so the headline could still be about him. Heís not Ted Bundy. Heís still is an insufferable prick I wouldnít want to be around day in and out. Why would I buy into the idea that he would be a successful business man without basketball?



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SiteWolf
06-04-2019, 08:20 AM
Wealthy people aren't wealthy strictly based on their own business acumen. Artists/athletes in particular build their wealth beyond their primary career because they surround themselves with people with strong business acumen.

Hawkeye15
06-04-2019, 02:28 PM
Iím not limiting him. Heís the annoying entitled child. Iím not calling him a great business man bc he managed not to squander the millions of dollars that have been thrown at him. Heís a basketball player. Thatís not an insult. He a stupid basketball player that wants me to think he is a renaissance man now that is an insult


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nobody is saying LeBron can split the atom. But to claim he isn't intelligent in the tone you continue to push, is naive, and pure hater. When you are that big, that young, TRUST me, you will have buzzards around you forever. His ability to stay out of trouble, keep his money/image managed perfectly, his ability to keep grounded despite that attention, is very intelligent. Whether you think so or not...

Again, if he weren't great at basketball, would he be a millionaire? Of course not. But would he be a successful human being? Absolutely. Same can't be said of a lot of athletes.

Hawkeye15
06-04-2019, 02:29 PM
Wealthy people aren't wealthy strictly based on their own business acumen. Artists/athletes in particular build their wealth beyond their primary career because they surround themselves with people with strong business acumen.

correct. But I promise you, most people who don't know how to manage wealth lose it, because they surround themselves with the wrong people. Being able to build a foundation or platform for financial growth takes intelligence, period.

Hawkeye15
06-04-2019, 02:30 PM
I donít work with him and I already talk ****. Iím sure most people who played with LeBron talk trash about him when they gets home. Why do you think no one wants to play with him anymore and no one wants to be in his stupid space jam movie? He just tried to trade his whole team mid season for the second year in a row. He got injured and showed up for the game late with a glass of wine so the headline could still be about him. Heís not Ted Bundy. Heís still is an insufferable prick I wouldnít want to be around day in and out. Why would I buy into the idea that he would be a successful business man without basketball?



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well LeBron is a type A. Those types are literally insufferable to work with, we all know that. It's hard enough when that type A is Debbie in accounting, but it's nearly impossible when it's the CEO.

ewing
06-04-2019, 09:31 PM
well LeBron is a type A. Those types are literally insufferable to work with, we all know that. It's hard enough when that type A is Debbie in accounting, but it's nearly impossible when it's the CEO.

Listen to yourself. The poor guy has been given stuff from the time he was a teen. Omg and heís a type A. Please heís jerk. Thatís it. Iím not impressed that he hasnít wasted all his money. Iím also not impressed that he doesnít eat eat other people or rape. he is no more a great business man then the guys that own the teams he plays for are great basketball players. Heís a dick

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cmellofan15
06-04-2019, 11:21 PM
Listen to yourself. The poor guy has been given stuff from the time he was a teen. Omg and heís a type A. Please heís jerk. Thatís it. Iím not impressed that he hasnít wasted all his money. Iím also not impressed that he doesnít eat eat other people or rape. he is no more a great business man then the guys that own the teams he plays for are great basketball players. Heís a dick

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You're just a poster on PSD..you know nothing about business, managing money, or being a great basketball player. More basketball posting, less commentary about business practices and morality, dick.

Pierzynski4Prez
06-05-2019, 12:00 AM
You're just a poster on PSD..you know nothing about business, managing money, or being a great basketball player. More basketball posting, less commentary about business practices and morality, dick.

I'm a poster on PSD too. Is it safe to assume I know nothing about business or managing my money? Guess I should drop out of my doctoral courses since I have a PSD account.

ewing
06-05-2019, 07:14 AM
You're just a poster on PSD..you know nothing about business, managing money, or being a great basketball player. More basketball posting, less commentary about business practices and morality, dick.

Iím an exceptional poster


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WaDe03
06-05-2019, 10:27 AM
You're just a poster on PSD..you know nothing about business, managing money, or being a great basketball player. More basketball posting, less commentary about business practices and morality, dick.

This, no one on PSD knows anything or has done anything. Weíre all failures and idiots.

WaDe03
06-05-2019, 10:28 AM
I'm a poster on PSD too. Is it safe to assume I know nothing about business or managing my money? Guess I should drop out of my doctoral courses since I have a PSD account.

Obviously, just give it up.

Hawkeye15
06-05-2019, 10:28 AM
Listen to yourself. The poor guy has been given stuff from the time he was a teen. Omg and heís a type A. Please heís jerk. Thatís it. Iím not impressed that he hasnít wasted all his money. Iím also not impressed that he doesnít eat eat other people or rape. he is no more a great business man then the guys that own the teams he plays for are great basketball players. Heís a dick

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what on earth did he ever do to you? My god. You become unhinged anytime you get into it regarding LeBron. Take a deep breath, step back, and relax brother.

Hawkeye15
06-05-2019, 10:30 AM
Lots to comment on, but I'll try to address a few points such as players are easily replaceable than billionaires, team success does not equal value, the most important person in the business, and the philosophical superstars to Europe exodus. This is not an organized response.










1. For the argument of billionaires are more replaceable than players; It's not about how many billionaires there are, it's about a smaller group of wealthy owners that can withstand losses longer than a larger group of rich players. The highest profile player, Lebron James is not a billionaire. In a strike, the lowly millionaires can hold out longer, and retain ownership rights, more than the NBA player who has an average 3 year career and can only get their maximum valued contract within a 5 year window. The owners aren't trying to sway the 8-10 superstars to accept the union deal, they are trying to sway players 8-12 on the bench of each team. If Rockets' Tillman Fertitta doesn't make any money during an NBA year, he still has his other businesses. If Houston player doesn't make money during any NBA year, they probably can't generate comparable profits.

2. Profit can come with success but they are not dependent on each other. The most valuable NBA franchise is the New York Knicks. Literally every other team is more successful but less valuable. David Stern/CP3/Lakers trade shows how ownership change can affect the league. Even if GSW win they still need to see if the current team success is worth the expenses of the roster/depth, venue change, and long term vision.

3. While the owner may not drive the success of the league, they get the financial risks and benefits. The Wizards still have to pay Wall his contract whether he over or under preforms and the financial losses from his absence. Some would argue that going with the cap spike vs smoothing (led by cp3/lebron) only benefited the top superstars at that present time at the expense of the future.

4. The philosophical superstar(s) going to Europe has its own challenges. How does the superstar get the equivalent of the super-max from the Euro club? How does this affect their personal branding/endorsements if they are not playing the top competition, or not having the exposure and access to NBA streaming revenue? Will all 8-10 superstars go to the same league? It's an MLS argument of NBA talent in Europe. The NBA survived a season without Kawhi as a superstar.

I hope my replies were commenting on your intended points.

MBT is awesome, standoffish but awesome. I also think at times he argues just to argue.

Without the people willing to take on, and run NBA franchises, these players would have nothing. That is not to say they shouldn't have a massive stake in the game, they should. They make half the money for crying out loud (Show me any other large business where the employees make that). But the owners have the power ultimately. Whomever has the money always controls it all. Been that way since the beginning of time...

ewing
06-05-2019, 11:55 AM
what on earth did he ever do to you? My god. You become unhinged anytime you get into it regarding LeBron. Take a deep breath, step back, and relax brother.

He been on my TV acting like an ******* for 15 years.


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WaDe03
06-05-2019, 12:01 PM
He been on my TV acting like an ******* for 15 years.


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Nearly everyone *****es. Jordan did the same **** and even fought teammates instead of throwing them under the bus lol. At the end of the day LeBrons the 2nd best player and itís not up for debate. Respect the greatness while you still can brother!

Hawkeye15
06-05-2019, 12:12 PM
He been on my TV acting like an ******* for 15 years.


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hahaha, fair enough

look you can hate a guy for any reason you like. I do..

ewing
06-05-2019, 06:18 PM
Nearly everyone *****es. Jordan did the same **** and even fought teammates instead of throwing them under the bus lol. At the end of the day LeBrons the 2nd best player and itís not up for debate. Respect the greatness while you still can brother!

Why canít I think he is great and an annoying *****


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