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jericho
05-14-2019, 10:26 PM
We all know the draft was rigged again. Anyways that's not what this is about. I posted this a while back ago but I think it needs to be brought back because the system clearly sucks. It should be done in front of the cameras not behind closed doors. Anyways here is my proposal. The week before the playoffs starts or the finals start get the teams that didn't make the playoffs and put them in a round robin tournament to determine who gets the 1st pick. This will make teams to build better rosters to either compete in the playoffs or in the draft tournament. Making the league more competitive. It will also give the fan base of the teams that are not in the playoffs something to root for generating more money for the nba. Some kinks need to be added and fixed here and there but I think this will fix a lot of things

bucketss
05-14-2019, 10:31 PM
i can imagine some players not playing hard so they don't get replaced by a lotta pick that plays the same position.

Scoots
05-14-2019, 10:53 PM
Lots of discussion about this in the past.

jericho
05-15-2019, 12:32 AM
i can imagine some players not playing hard so they don't get replaced by a lotta pick that plays the same position.

It all depends if they would like to get paid on contract time. It's not just about who is replacing you it's about you making that money as well.

TakeYourL
05-15-2019, 02:24 AM
League could be more competitive easily if they cut a few teams like the pelicans, and fix the ridiculously pointless salary cap.

No other league needs or has a salary cap 1/10 as complicated as the nbas, what does the NBA actually think they are accomplishing with that nonsense....

And what is nbas reasoning for doing the lotto picks behind closed doors? Have they ever gave a real reason?

Seems like a star leaves a small market, and that small market team mysteriously jumps up the draft board.

ManningToTyree
05-15-2019, 05:13 AM
You can come up with a narrative as to why itís rigged every single year. Itís not. Itís just a bad system


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oakmont_4
05-15-2019, 06:07 AM
The draft format worked perfectly. It did exactly what it was intended to do - punish teams for blatantly tanking. In the NBA you canít have teams tanking like that because itís such a star driven league.

The 3 worst teams all ended up with worse picks they were intended to get.

STOP TANKING

itís bad for the league.

Iím a Boston fan living in NY and this mornings ride in listening to sports radio was the best Iíve had in years and thatís after winning multiple championships in multiple sports as a Boston fan

Every Knicks fan crying this morning ďhow are bad teams ever supposed to get better!? Itís not fair. Wahhhh wahhhĒ

Hereís a couple tips
-Donít tank.
-Donít trade your best young player for nothing but cap space
-hire better management
-scout, draft and develop better

Look at the top 8 teams in the playoffs this year
Boston - never tanked, had 1 #1 pick and traded back for a player they scouted really well.

GS - no #1 picks yet landed 3 great players in the draft thatís the core of their dynasty

HOU - no #1 picks

Portland - no #1 picks

Milwaukee - no #1 picks

Toronto - no #1 picks

Denver - no #1 picks

Philadelphia is the only team in the top 8 that went the tanking route. Out of all those top picks they only landed 2 very good players. 1 is deeply flawed. The other has injury concerns and likely doesnít have a prolonged career due to that injury history.


What do all of these top teams have in common? They never tanked. They did their homework and drafted and developed players which in return attracted great players or great complimentary players. Theyíre all well run organizations with good management, ownership and coaching.

When you tank, you breed a losing atmosphere and create turmoil within the organization that takes years to break. Yes this is a star driven league. But you also need a winning culture and complimentary players that fit together and employ a system that works for the talent on the roster. You canít just depend on having 1 top 5 player and expect to be a contender. Just ask LeBron.

HowFit
05-15-2019, 07:30 AM
The draft format worked perfectly. It did exactly what it was intended to do - punish teams for blatantly tanking. In the NBA you canít have teams tanking like that because itís such a star driven league.

The 3 worst teams all ended up with worse picks they were intended to get.

STOP TANKING

itís bad for the league.

Iím a Boston fan living in NY and this mornings ride in listening to sports radio was the best Iíve had in years and thatís after winning multiple championships in multiple sports as a Boston fan

Every Knicks fan crying this morning ďhow are bad teams ever supposed to get better!? Itís not fair. Wahhhh wahhhĒ

Hereís a couple tips
-Donít tank.
-Donít trade your best young player for nothing but cap space
-hire better management
-scout, draft and develop better

Look at the top 8 teams in the playoffs this year
Boston - never tanked, had 1 #1 pick and traded back for a player they scouted really well.

GS - no #1 picks yet landed 3 great players in the draft thatís the core of their dynasty

HOU - no #1 picks

Portland - no #1 picks

Milwaukee - no #1 picks

Toronto - no #1 picks

Denver - no #1 picks

Philadelphia is the only team in the top 8 that went the tanking route. Out of all those top picks they only landed 2 very good players. 1 is deeply flawed. The other has injury concerns and likely doesnít have a prolonged career due to that injury history.


What do all of these top teams have in common? They never tanked. They did their homework and drafted and developed players which in return attracted great players or great complimentary players. Theyíre all well run organizations with good management, ownership and coaching.

When you tank, you breed a losing atmosphere and create turmoil within the organization that takes years to break. Yes this is a star driven league. But you also need a winning culture and complimentary players that fit together and employ a system that works for the talent on the roster. You canít just depend on having 1 top 5 player and expect to be a contender. Just ask LeBron.

Well detailed explaining why it was rigged...

Heediot
05-15-2019, 07:33 AM
The draft format worked perfectly. It did exactly what it was intended to do - punish teams for blatantly tanking. In the NBA you canít have teams tanking like that because itís such a star driven league.

The 3 worst teams all ended up with worse picks they were intended to get.

STOP TANKING

itís bad for the league.

Iím a Boston fan living in NY and this mornings ride in listening to sports radio was the best Iíve had in years and thatís after winning multiple championships in multiple sports as a Boston fan

Every Knicks fan crying this morning ďhow are bad teams ever supposed to get better!? Itís not fair. Wahhhh wahhhĒ

Hereís a couple tips
-Donít tank.
-Donít trade your best young player for nothing but cap space
-hire better management
-scout, draft and develop better

Look at the top 8 teams in the playoffs this year
Boston - never tanked, had 1 #1 pick and traded back for a player they scouted really well.

GS - no #1 picks yet landed 3 great players in the draft thatís the core of their dynasty

HOU - no #1 picks

Portland - no #1 picks

Milwaukee - no #1 picks

Toronto - no #1 picks

Denver - no #1 picks

Philadelphia is the only team in the top 8 that went the tanking route. Out of all those top picks they only landed 2 very good players. 1 is deeply flawed. The other has injury concerns and likely doesnít have a prolonged career due to that injury history.


What do all of these top teams have in common? They never tanked. They did their homework and drafted and developed players which in return attracted great players or great complimentary players. Theyíre all well run organizations with good management, ownership and coaching.

When you tank, you breed a losing atmosphere and create turmoil within the organization that takes years to break. Yes this is a star driven league. But you also need a winning culture and complimentary players that fit together and employ a system that works for the talent on the roster. You canít just depend on having 1 top 5 player and expect to be a contender. Just ask LeBron.

Toronto has no lottery picks on the roster.

I think Denver has Jamal Murray as the only top 10 pick.

GS and Mil were built without needing to resort to getting a high end pick.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2019, 07:36 AM
Well detailed explaining why it was rigged...

Yeah, 7 of the 8 top teams in the NBA never had a #1 pick yet itís rigged... Ok.

warfelg
05-15-2019, 07:50 AM
First off, the way they do the lottery is almost impossible to rig anymore.

Secondly.....this was awesome. I've been wanting some type of flattened odds for a long time to do something like this. The only thing I'm not a big fan of is how far down the board some absolutely terrible teams got pushed. But overall I think this accomplished what they wanted it to. 2 teams with a 6% chance and 1 team with a 2% chance of jumping into the top 4 did jump. That's the intent. Last year those teams would have had a 5%, 2% and 1% chance respectively to make a top 3 jump. So this changing of the odds did what it was supposed to.

IndyRealist
05-15-2019, 08:31 AM
The first lottery was done on camera and everyone said it was rigged. Being live won't change anything.

SiteWolf
05-15-2019, 08:35 AM
How often does this subject really come up in years there's no supposed definitive #1 pick?
I still don't get the need to flatten out the odds THIS much....it doesn't happen in any other sport, does it? (to an extent in hockey). I mean I understand the idea of 'tankers' not directly benefiting in a sport where only 5 play at one time and only 12 are eligible to in any given game, but still....

SiteWolf
05-15-2019, 08:39 AM
The first lottery was done on camera and everyone said it was rigged. Being live won't change anything.

can't remember the name of the movie...it was no classic, but entertaining....where employees of the lottery got together and repainted the numbers of specific ping pong balls so that those balls were slightly heavier and therefore would always be the first to pop in for the drawing.......so yeah, just making the drawing live doesn't change the ability of rigging it

warfelg
05-15-2019, 08:44 AM
can't remember the name of the movie...it was no classic, but entertaining....where employees of the lottery got together and repainted the numbers of specific ping pong balls so that those balls were slightly heavier and therefore would always be the first to pop in for the drawing.......so yeah, just making the drawing live doesn't change the ability of rigging it

Part of the process of the lottery is before every drawing, they take every ball out, weigh it, let the team reps inspect them.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2019, 09:07 AM
How often does this subject really come up in years there's no supposed definitive #1 pick?
I still don't get the need to flatten out the odds THIS much....it doesn't happen in any other sport, does it? (to an extent in hockey). I mean I understand the idea of 'tankers' not directly benefiting in a sport where only 5 play at one time and only 12 are eligible to in any given game, but still....

No other sport is comparable to the NBA. Much smaller rosters. Less draft rounds which equals smaller talent pool. No other draft has as big of an impact as the top of the NBA draft.

People have such short term memories. Thereís reasons the lottery exists. Without it, we know for a fact what will happen. Every time thereís a LeBron or Zion in the draft itís a race to the bottom. You have 5-10 teams flat out tanking for the worst record.

What good is it for the league when 30% of their league literally isnít trying to win games.

The only people who get mad at the lottery are the fans of teams who didnít win it. Move on. Itís there for a very good reason. Itís not perfect but Iíd much rather watch teams who tank get screwed than watch a third of the league not try at all for 82 games

Scoots
05-15-2019, 09:45 AM
League could be more competitive easily if they cut a few teams like the pelicans, and fix the ridiculously pointless salary cap.

No other league needs or has a salary cap 1/10 as complicated as the nbas, what does the NBA actually think they are accomplishing with that nonsense....

And what is nbas reasoning for doing the lotto picks behind closed doors? Have they ever gave a real reason?

Seems like a star leaves a small market, and that small market team mysteriously jumps up the draft board.

Comparing the NBA cap to the NFL doesn't really work fundamentally. The NFL has fewer benefits, shorter careers, non-guaranteed contracts, and individual players are far less important to the team.

Scoots
05-15-2019, 09:51 AM
The draft format worked perfectly. It did exactly what it was intended to do - punish teams for blatantly tanking. In the NBA you canít have teams tanking like that because itís such a star driven league.

The 3 worst teams all ended up with worse picks they were intended to get.

STOP TANKING

itís bad for the league.

Iím a Boston fan living in NY and this mornings ride in listening to sports radio was the best Iíve had in years and thatís after winning multiple championships in multiple sports as a Boston fan

Every Knicks fan crying this morning ďhow are bad teams ever supposed to get better!? Itís not fair. Wahhhh wahhhĒ

Hereís a couple tips
-Donít tank.
-Donít trade your best young player for nothing but cap space
-hire better management
-scout, draft and develop better

Look at the top 8 teams in the playoffs this year
Boston - never tanked, had 1 #1 pick and traded back for a player they scouted really well.

GS - no #1 picks yet landed 3 great players in the draft thatís the core of their dynasty

HOU - no #1 picks

Portland - no #1 picks

Milwaukee - no #1 picks

Toronto - no #1 picks

Denver - no #1 picks

Philadelphia is the only team in the top 8 that went the tanking route. Out of all those top picks they only landed 2 very good players. 1 is deeply flawed. The other has injury concerns and likely doesnít have a prolonged career due to that injury history.


What do all of these top teams have in common? They never tanked. They did their homework and drafted and developed players which in return attracted great players or great complimentary players. Theyíre all well run organizations with good management, ownership and coaching.

When you tank, you breed a losing atmosphere and create turmoil within the organization that takes years to break. Yes this is a star driven league. But you also need a winning culture and complimentary players that fit together and employ a system that works for the talent on the roster. You canít just depend on having 1 top 5 player and expect to be a contender. Just ask LeBron.

Good post.

The Warriors absolutely tanked ... no tank no Draymond, no title in 2015, no run at a title in 2016, no KD. And all of those teams made decisions at some point in the last decade that were intended to build for the future but that would result in more losses in the short term ... that's tanking. It's the HARD tanking that the NBA PR people disliked enough to get this change.

Houston was the original team that tanked hard in the 80s that lead to the creation of the lottery, it's been adjusted about 8 times since and someone always has a problem with the results.

There is no perfect solution.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2019, 10:00 AM
Good post.

The Warriors absolutely tanked ... no tank no Draymond, no title in 2015, no run at a title in 2016, no KD. And all of those teams made decisions at some point in the last decade that were intended to build for the future but that would result in more losses in the short term ... that's tanking. It's the HARD tanking that the NBA PR people disliked enough to get this change.

Houston was the original team that tanked hard in the 80s that lead to the creation of the lottery, it's been adjusted about 8 times since and someone always has a problem with the results.

There is no perfect solution.

Yeah I agree. Thereís a difference. I consider the tanking the hard tanking. The Knicks, Sixers, Cleveland style where you gut your roster. Make decisions that are based solely on future considerations.

Then thereís just bad teams that arenít trying to improve. That happens in every sport and Iím ok with it.

But when youíre trading away stars. Taking on loads of bad contracts and intentionally trying to lose. Thatís bad for the league.

GS, Boston, Brooklyn are great examples of turning the roster but not trying to bottom out. Theyíre still building something with their moves. Theyíre actively trying to get better despite lacking talent. Losing because you lack talent is one thing. Intentionally losing and giving away talent to do so is another.

However - Draymond was a 2nd round pick. Had nothing to do with any tanking.

Scoots
05-15-2019, 10:00 AM
The first lottery was done on camera and everyone said it was rigged. Being live won't change anything.

The current method is considerably harder to rig than the method used in 84. But I agree, people will always believe it's rigged.

Scoots
05-15-2019, 10:01 AM
How often does this subject really come up in years there's no supposed definitive #1 pick?
I still don't get the need to flatten out the odds THIS much....it doesn't happen in any other sport, does it? (to an extent in hockey). I mean I understand the idea of 'tankers' not directly benefiting in a sport where only 5 play at one time and only 12 are eligible to in any given game, but still....

I don't think most fans realized just how incredibly big the change to the odds was.

Scoots
05-15-2019, 10:04 AM
Part of the process of the lottery is before every drawing, they take every ball out, weigh it, let the team reps inspect them.

And there is no ball assigned to a team. The lottery uses a number of balls for each selection, and the numbered balls are randomly assigned to those combinations. So a "heavier ball" would not produce a single result.

Scoots
05-15-2019, 10:06 AM
The only people who get mad at the lottery are the fans of teams who didnít win it. Move on. Itís there for a very good reason. Itís not perfect but Iíd much rather watch teams who tank get screwed than watch a third of the league not try at all for 82 games

And those teams are usually the teams that were tanking. They build up in their mind that the 1st pick is their "right" and thus the upset when they don't get it. It's basic psychology, and the teams and media play into it.

Oh well, nothing to do about it now, though I wouldn't be surprised if the NBA adjusted the percentages again in a few years.

MarkieMark48
05-15-2019, 10:07 AM
Why would the NBA rig it for New Orleans? Asking for a friend

Scoots
05-15-2019, 10:11 AM
Yeah I agree. Thereís a difference. I consider the tanking the hard tanking. The Knicks, Sixers, Cleveland style where you gut your roster. Make decisions that are based solely on future considerations.

Then thereís just bad teams that arenít trying to improve. That happens in every sport and Iím ok with it.

But when youíre trading away stars. Taking on loads of bad contracts and intentionally trying to lose. Thatís bad for the league.

GS, Boston, Brooklyn are great examples of turning the roster but not trying to bottom out. Theyíre still building something with their moves. Theyíre actively trying to get better despite lacking talent. Losing because you lack talent is one thing. Intentionally losing and giving away talent to do so is another.

However - Draymond was a 2nd round pick. Had nothing to do with any tanking.

The Warriors did all those things hard tanking teams do. The Warriors traded away their best player for an injured player they never planned to play. They then told their two best players they were injured (both players publicly expressed their frustration that the team wasn't playing them), they dumped their roster for a bunch of youth to give tryouts to, and lost at an incredible rate down the stretch to try to keep their 1st round pick one more year. Had they not done that they would have picked behind Detroit in the 2nd round and Draymond would have been drafted by Detroit and not the Warriors. The difference is that the Warriors didn't start the hard tank until the 2nd part of the season and didn't tank for the 1st pick but just a top 7 pick to keep their pick.

A lot of the "bad teams" are intentionally bad, they are just better at the process of getting bad that they are not as transparent as teams like Phoenix/Philly which is where they became a PR problem for the NBA.

ChI_ShIzzLe
05-15-2019, 10:55 AM
The draft format worked perfectly. It did exactly what it was intended to do - punish teams for blatantly tanking. In the NBA you canít have teams tanking like that because itís such a star driven league.

The 3 worst teams all ended up with worse picks they were intended to get.

STOP TANKING

itís bad for the league.

Iím a Boston fan living in NY and this mornings ride in listening to sports radio was the best Iíve had in years and thatís after winning multiple championships in multiple sports as a Boston fan

Every Knicks fan crying this morning ďhow are bad teams ever supposed to get better!? Itís not fair. Wahhhh wahhhĒ

Hereís a couple tips
-Donít tank.
-Donít trade your best young player for nothing but cap space
-hire better management
-scout, draft and develop better

Look at the top 8 teams in the playoffs this year
Boston - never tanked, had 1 #1 pick and traded back for a player they scouted really well.

GS - no #1 picks yet landed 3 great players in the draft thatís the core of their dynasty

HOU - no #1 picks

Portland - no #1 picks

Milwaukee - no #1 picks

Toronto - no #1 picks

Denver - no #1 picks

Philadelphia is the only team in the top 8 that went the tanking route. Out of all those top picks they only landed 2 very good players. 1 is deeply flawed. The other has injury concerns and likely doesnít have a prolonged career due to that injury history.


What do all of these top teams have in common? They never tanked. They did their homework and drafted and developed players which in return attracted great players or great complimentary players. Theyíre all well run organizations with good management, ownership and coaching.

When you tank, you breed a losing atmosphere and create turmoil within the organization that takes years to break. Yes this is a star driven league. But you also need a winning culture and complimentary players that fit together and employ a system that works for the talent on the roster. You canít just depend on having 1 top 5 player and expect to be a contender. Just ask LeBron.

How about a team like the Bulls?? who werenít tanking but were riddled with injuries to their core players..ended up getting shafted and dropped 3 spots after losing 60 games. It goes both ways. Iíd say they shouldíve just kept the original format. Teams with a superstar player in the 11th or 8th slots shouldnít have that high odds of winning the lottery over the teams that really need that talent on their rosters. As much as I hate both teams, I feel bad for the Knicks and Cavs. They werenít tanking as much as they were just losing based on the severe lack of talent.

Dade County
05-15-2019, 11:08 AM
League could be more competitive easily if they cut a few teams like the pelicans,

Thank you.

Now Zion & the next top pic have to deal with a organization that just can't seem to build a contending team around a talented player.

7yrs with AD and nothing to show for it.




And what is nbas reasoning for doing the lotto picks behind closed doors? Have they ever gave a real reason?

Seems like a star leaves a small market, and that small market team mysteriously jumps up the draft board.

Smoke and mirrors man. It's a business, and of course it's rigged.

I would really like if Zion came out and says I don't want to play in N.O ("it was rigged for them anyway, why should he have to play here for 3-4yrs or if he signs, 7yrs).

If these young players can get a over sea contract that can pay them between 20mil-40mil coming out of high school they should jump all over that. I am tired of this.

N.O was gifted AD, now since he wants out they are gifted Zion, why? So this can happen all over agin.

JAZZNC
05-15-2019, 11:24 AM
It's not rigged. Why would the NBA want Cleveland having multiple #1s? Why would they want NO getting Zion? Stop with that nonsensical BS. It isn't gonna make the NBA a bunch of money to have the top 2 picks in NO and Memphis.

THE MTL
05-15-2019, 11:25 AM
I think it worked out very nicely. Only thing I would do different is increase the odds 1-3 percentage points for your worse teams. Top 3 isnt bad for the Knicks but you have equally as bad teams like Chicago with 7th pick which isnt right

Dade County
05-15-2019, 11:29 AM
Why would the NBA rig it for New Orleans? Asking for a friend

Where to begin...

1.
It put them in the position of power, and not having to feel force in future negotiations. They already have their future key asset.

2.
Teams now have to out bid each other even more now, because N.O already has the prize. Matter affect, they have both prizes in AD & Zion.

3.
Now the N.O fan base and their owners have something else to focus on. They can still sale tickets and keep their organization a float. When a trade gets done, they will be able to surround Zion with good young talent; they have been placed in a win, win situation.

If N.O trades with the knicks, they can team up Zion & R.J, this alone is beneficial for N.O in future contract talks with both players. They are best friends now, so teaming them up is perfect; they wouldn't want to lave each other unless something crazy happens.

Dade County
05-15-2019, 11:37 AM
It's not rigged. Why would the NBA want Cleveland having multiple #1s? Why would they want NO getting Zion? Stop with that nonsensical BS. It isn't gonna make the NBA a bunch of money to have the top 2 picks in NO and Memphis.

They are saving those organizations. Key free agents don't lineup and sign there. Their front offices have not built true contenders. Both teams fan basses are tired to the point, they will stop showing up.

I'm not worried about Memphis getting the 2nd pick; it's about N.O being gifted again with a bonafide top tier talent. For this cycle to happen all over again years down the line.

MarkieMark48
05-15-2019, 12:16 PM
It's not rigged. Why would the NBA want Cleveland having multiple #1s? Why would they want NO getting Zion? Stop with that nonsensical BS. It isn't gonna make the NBA a bunch of money to have the top 2 picks in NO and Memphis.

This... The NBA wanted Zion in New York, and if it was rigged this would be the year to rig it for New York and it wouldn't have looked rigged.

Scoots
05-15-2019, 12:35 PM
How about a team like the Bulls?? who werenít tanking but were riddled with injuries to their core players..ended up getting shafted and dropped 3 spots after losing 60 games. It goes both ways. Iíd say they shouldíve just kept the original format. Teams with a superstar player in the 11th or 8th slots shouldnít have that high odds of winning the lottery over the teams that really need that talent on their rosters. As much as I hate both teams, I feel bad for the Knicks and Cavs. They werenít tanking as much as they were just losing based on the severe lack of talent.

So should the picks go to teams based on judged merit?

Also teams that are "bad" or "injured" are often both things on purpose ... and that's called tanking too, it's just not as blatant as what some other teams do.

TakeYourL
05-15-2019, 01:19 PM
Comparing the NBA cap to the NFL doesn't really work fundamentally. The NFL has fewer benefits, shorter careers, non-guaranteed contracts, and individual players are far less important to the team.

I hear all that, but for all the crazy salary cap rules in the NBA, and the different types of contracts, and the millions of rules, And the matching salaries stuff, wait to sign this guy so it doesn't count against the Cap, and all this crazy nonsense it takes to build a roster.....

None of it really accomplishes anything but a headache for everyone involved.


Thank you.

Now Zion & the next top pic have to deal with a organization that just can't seem to build a contending team around a talented player.

7yrs with AD and nothing to show for it.




Smoke and mirrors man. It's a business, and of course it's rigged.

I would really like if Zion came out and says I don't want to play in N.O ("it was rigged for them anyway, why should he have to play here for 3-4yrs or if he signs, 7yrs).

If these young players can get a over sea contract that can pay them between 20mil-40mil coming out of high school they should jump all over that. I am tired of this.

N.O was gifted AD, now since he wants out they are gifted Zion, why? So this can happen all over agin.

The amount of work the NBA does to help bad small market teams stay in business is completely nuts.

Zion in NY would of been a ratings/ticket sales/ESPN hype machine Bonanza. Duke games were pulling in more views than NBA games this year by a lot, imagine Zion in NY, what that could of done for the NBA.

But nah, "let's give him to pelicans to save their franchise, because we know no top tier players will want to go there".

****, I ain't never seen a Pelican fan in my whole damn life.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2019, 01:31 PM
I hear all that, but for all the crazy salary cap rules in the NBA, and the different types of contracts, and the millions of rules, And the matching salaries stuff, wait to sign this guy so it doesn't count against the Cap, and all this crazy nonsense it takes to build a roster.....

None of it really accomplishes anything but a headache for everyone involved.



The amount of work the NBA does to help bad small market teams stay in business is completely nuts.

Zion in NY would of been a ratings/ticket sales/ESPN hype machine Bonanza. Duke games were pulling in more views than NBA games this year by a lot, imagine Zion in NY, what that could of done for the NBA.

But nah, "let's give him to pelicans to save their franchise, because we know no top tier players will want to go there".

****, I ain't never seen a Pelican fan in my whole damn life.

Fans crack me up.

NO is too small of a market for Zion, the NBA would be so much better if Zion was in the NY market!!!

Also fans

The Knicks should trade Zion to NO for AD!!!

TakeYourL
05-15-2019, 01:39 PM
Fans crack me up.

NO is too small of a market for Zion, the NBA would be so much better if Zion was in the NY market!!!

Also fans

The Knicks should trade Zion to NO for AD!!!

It shouldn't crack you up.

AD hates it so much he tried forcing a trade 2 years before his contract was up.

And Zion is clearly not interested in being there either.

You guys want to keep pretending bad small market teams in the NBA aren't weighing down the entire league when they clearly are.

IndyRealist
05-15-2019, 01:40 PM
The Knicks sell out their games regardless of who is on the roster. Most of the road games Zion will have will sell out, so again it doesn't matter what team he is on.

Y'all act like ESPN didn't cover Lebron in Cleveland. If Zion is half as good as people here think, it won't matter if he plays in Siberia.

Scoots
05-15-2019, 01:57 PM
I hear all that, but for all the crazy salary cap rules in the NBA, and the different types of contracts, and the millions of rules, And the matching salaries stuff, wait to sign this guy so it doesn't count against the Cap, and all this crazy nonsense it takes to build a roster.....

None of it really accomplishes anything but a headache for everyone involved.

The good team executives actually mostly love the complicated cap because it gives them more ways to maneuver. Pretty much all of those rules are there for legit reasons, it's just that they built over decades of negotiations between the league and the NFLPA so there are a lot of them.

For example, many people don't know that veteran players on minimum 1 year deals don't count 100% of their contract against the cap. The league actually reimburses teams for a portion of their salary. The idea there is to keep veterans in the league longer rather than have teams just filling their roster with super cheap rookies.

Dade County
05-15-2019, 04:03 PM
****, I ain't never seen a Pelican fan in my whole damn life.

:laugh2:

I never thought about it, me neither!

Dade County
05-15-2019, 04:05 PM
It shouldn't crack you up.

AD hates it so much he tried forcing a trade 2 years before his contract was up.

And Zion is clearly not interested in being there either.

You guys want to keep pretending bad small market teams in the NBA aren't weighing down the entire league when they clearly are.

#Facts

warfelg
05-15-2019, 04:21 PM
1128722480003256320

Heediot
05-15-2019, 04:29 PM
1128722480003256320

Why did he go to duke and not ucla lmao?

warfelg
05-15-2019, 05:46 PM
Why did he go to duke and not ucla lmao?

You know that post is a joke, poking fun at everyone saying Zion should refuse to lay in NO because it's not a big enough market, right?

SiteWolf
05-15-2019, 07:36 PM
The Knicks sell out their games regardless of who is on the roster. Most of the road games Zion will have will sell out, so again it doesn't matter what team he is on.

Y'all act like ESPN didn't cover Lebron in Cleveland. If Zion is half as good as people here think, it won't matter if he plays in Siberia.

The Knicks don't sell out regardless....they were at 95% this year, which was 18th in the league not far above the Pelicans...they were at 97.6% last year, 15th....

SiteWolf
05-15-2019, 07:39 PM
It shouldn't crack you up.

AD hates it so much he tried forcing a trade 2 years before his contract was up.

And Zion is clearly not interested in being there either.

You guys want to keep pretending bad small market teams in the NBA aren't weighing down the entire league when they clearly are.

Who do you define as a bad small market team? These things are cyclical and depend heavily on a team's sometimes luck in hitting it big in a draft or two and the ability to use that to bring in top FAs.

People act like Golden State has been a prime spot for a long time....but they were nothing before the current group ended up in Oakland.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2019, 09:14 PM
It shouldn't crack you up.

AD hates it so much he tried forcing a trade 2 years before his contract was up.

And Zion is clearly not interested in being there either.

You guys want to keep pretending bad small market teams in the NBA aren't weighing down the entire league when they clearly are.

Market has nothing to do with it. Poor organizations are the problem and itís a self made problem.

Small market teams with success
San Antonio
Toronto
Milwaukee
Golden State

Large market teams poorly run
LAL
Chicago
New York

-why havenít all the major free agents been flocking to these cities. Why are players like Giannis and Duncan and so wanting to stay in a small market? Because the teams are well run organizations that draft well and develop talent. NO has been terrible at this and thatís why players like Davis want to leave. And poorly run organizations like the Knicks have attracted nothing since Amare Stoudemire. Maybe KD will save their ownership because he flat out just wants to be in NY. But even then I have my doubts.

Heediot
05-15-2019, 09:18 PM
You know that post is a joke, poking fun at everyone saying Zion should refuse to lay in NO because it's not a big enough market, right?

yeah. just trying to spin it back.

TheDish87
05-16-2019, 09:41 AM
doing lotto tounrey is the most commons duggestion and it remains the dumbest suggestion for so many reasons.

TakeYourL
05-16-2019, 03:43 PM
Who do you define as a bad small market team? These things are cyclical and depend heavily on a team's sometimes luck in hitting it big in a draft or two and the ability to use that to bring in top FAs.

People act like Golden State has been a prime spot for a long time....but they were nothing before the current group ended up in Oakland.

Any teams that are massively dependent on revenue sharing to make it.

These are the same teams that are also dependent on landing studs in the draft, because no stars want to be on those teams.

That's why I'm 100% convinced the lottery is rigged.

Guess who are the 2 poorest teams in the NBA.. Memphis & and NO. It's no coincidence they got picks 1 & 2.

If they didn't get those picks those franchises would probably go into complete irrelevance for who knows how long.

When you think about everything the NBA does to help these teams it's completely insane. It's the only league that does this.

TakeYourL
05-16-2019, 03:52 PM
Market has nothing to do with it. Poor organizations are the problem and itís a self made problem.

Small market teams with success
San Antonio
Toronto
Milwaukee
Golden State

Large market teams poorly run
LAL
Chicago
New York

-why havenít all the major free agents been flocking to these cities. Why are players like Giannis and Duncan and so wanting to stay in a small market? Because the teams are well run organizations that draft well and develop talent. NO has been terrible at this and thatís why players like Davis want to leave. And poorly run organizations like the Knicks have attracted nothing since Amare Stoudemire. Maybe KD will save their ownership because he flat out just wants to be in NY. But even then I have my doubts.

It doesn't matter if NY has been a terrible franchise.

They don't depend on the NBA to help them, and they don't need to take $ from other teams to survive.

Being located in NY will never be a reason stars don't want to come to NY.

The NBA works overtime to force players.to go to bad teams in terrible markets, and than the NBA gives those teams money that other teams made.

The entire league is basically set up to help small market teams. The entire system is a joke.

TakeYourL
05-16-2019, 03:59 PM
The good team executives actually mostly love the complicated cap because it gives them more ways to maneuver. Pretty much all of those rules are there for legit reasons, it's just that they built over decades of negotiations between the league and the NFLPA so there are a lot of them.

For example, many people don't know that veteran players on minimum 1 year deals don't count 100% of their contract against the cap. The league actually reimburses teams for a portion of their salary. The idea there is to keep veterans in the league longer rather than have teams just filling their roster with super cheap rookies.

That's exactly why the nba having the most insanely complicated and strict cap is so stupid.

Not even most GM's and executives can figure out how to build a roster with this nonsense.

And even if you make all the right moves, 1 bad contract can set you back 4 years.

No one is benefiting from this.

Tanking and waiting years to clear cap is the only thing this cap system has done successfully.

colinskik
05-16-2019, 04:09 PM
The draft format worked perfectly. It did exactly what it was intended to do - punish teams for blatantly tanking. In the NBA you canít have teams tanking like that because itís such a star driven league.

The 3 worst teams all ended up with worse picks they were intended to get.

STOP TANKING

itís bad for the league.

Iím a Boston fan living in NY and this mornings ride in listening to sports radio was the best Iíve had in years and thatís after winning multiple championships in multiple sports as a Boston fan

Every Knicks fan crying this morning ďhow are bad teams ever supposed to get better!? Itís not fair. Wahhhh wahhhĒ

Hereís a couple tips
-Donít tank.
-Donít trade your best young player for nothing but cap space
-hire better management
-scout, draft and develop better

Look at the top 8 teams in the playoffs this year
Boston - never tanked, had 1 #1 pick and traded back for a player they scouted really well.

GS - no #1 picks yet landed 3 great players in the draft thatís the core of their dynasty

HOU - no #1 picks

Portland - no #1 picks

Milwaukee - no #1 picks

Toronto - no #1 picks

Denver - no #1 picks

Philadelphia is the only team in the top 8 that went the tanking route. Out of all those top picks they only landed 2 very good players. 1 is deeply flawed. The other has injury concerns and likely doesnít have a prolonged career due to that injury history.


What do all of these top teams have in common? They never tanked. They did their homework and drafted and developed players which in return attracted great players or great complimentary players. Theyíre all well run organizations with good management, ownership and coaching.

When you tank, you breed a losing atmosphere and create turmoil within the organization that takes years to break. Yes this is a star driven league. But you also need a winning culture and complimentary players that fit together and employ a system that works for the talent on the roster. You canít just depend on having 1 top 5 player and expect to be a contender. Just ask LeBron.

Go back to Boston.

Scoots
05-16-2019, 04:11 PM
Any teams that are massively dependent on revenue sharing to make it.

These are the same teams that are also dependent on landing studs in the draft, because no stars want to be on those teams.

That's why I'm 100% convinced the lottery is rigged.

Guess who are the 2 poorest teams in the NBA.. Memphis & and NO. It's no coincidence they got picks 1 & 2.

If they didn't get those picks those franchises would probably go into complete irrelevance for who knows how long.

When you think about everything the NBA does to help these teams it's completely insane. It's the only league that does this.

How does that explain the Suns, Cavs, Clippers, Wizards, Bulls, etc getting the first pick?

It's insane that someone thinks the NBA commits felonies every year to help billionaires get the right ping pong balls.

Scoots
05-16-2019, 04:13 PM
That's exactly why the nba having the most insanely complicated and strict cap is so stupid.

Not even most GM's and executives can figure out how to build a roster with this nonsense.

And even if you make all the right moves, 1 bad contract can set you back 4 years.

No one is benefiting from this.

Tanking and waiting years to clear cap is the only thing this cap system has done successfully.

How can "all the right moves" mesh with "1 bad contract"?

The players benefit.

Instead of just complaining please detail your perfect system.

tp13baby
05-16-2019, 04:31 PM
That's exactly why the nba having the most insanely complicated and strict cap is so stupid.

Not even most GM's and executives can figure out how to build a roster with this nonsense.

And even if you make all the right moves, 1 bad contract can set you back 4 years.

No one is benefiting from this.

Tanking and waiting years to clear cap is the only thing this cap system has done successfully.

Nothing is really complicated about the cap. And teams shouldnít have consequences for signing players to terrible contracts? Canít just clear ****** contracts with no cost. Most GMs know what to do. Most understand you build through the draft, save your cap until you become fringe contenders and spend money since you get bird rights. Or if you are a big market, make room for next years free agent class.

Cal827
05-16-2019, 05:40 PM
One worry that would probably be brought up would be players sustaining bad injuries during that tournament.

You said you'd have it about a week before the finals. So Suppose one of the Toronto-Milwaukee or Golden State-Portland series goes long and we see the Finals start in June. For all of those bad teams, it means that they basically haven't played for at least 2 months (perhaps longer, depending on late season injuries). I'd be worried that we'd see an increase of injures (like we saw with the lockout) for that week+ of the tournament.

Also what does that mean for guys who might've played through the season, but needed some sort of surgery (that they get at the end of the year)? Many players get procedures like arthroscopic surgeries (or even shoulder/hip/back/foot/etc procedures) after the season ends... Are FO's going to ask them to hang tight (and potentially risk the start of their next season) for this tournament?

Oakmont_4
05-16-2019, 06:20 PM
Go back to Boston.

Nah. I love being around these sorry NY teams while my teams rake in the wins and championships. It makes it so much more fun

Oakmont_4
05-16-2019, 06:23 PM
It doesn't matter if NY has been a terrible franchise.

They don't depend on the NBA to help them, and they don't need to take $ from other teams to survive.

Being located in NY will never be a reason stars don't want to come to NY.

The NBA works overtime to force players.to go to bad teams in terrible markets, and than the NBA gives those teams money that other teams made.

The entire league is basically set up to help small market teams. The entire system is a joke.

Youíre so off base. I agree. Being in NY isnít the reasons players donít come. Itís because theyíre a joke of a franchise. Just as players donít hate New Orleans, they just donít want to come to a poorly run franchise.

So yes. If youíre choosing between 2 poorly run franchises a player will choose the better city. But that has nothing to do with why the player would be unhappy. Theyíre unhappy because their organization sucks and they donít win games. The market is NOT the issue. Itís just easy to blame.

If NO won as much as San Antonio (both small markets) players would love to go there.

colinskik
05-16-2019, 08:45 PM
Nah. I love being around these sorry NY teams while my teams rake in the wins and championships. It makes it so much more fun

Their teams are good, but the city is garbage. Rather have it the NY way.

Scoots
05-16-2019, 09:31 PM
Nothing is really complicated about the cap. And teams shouldnít have consequences for signing players to terrible contracts? Canít just clear ****** contracts with no cost. Most GMs know what to do. Most understand you build through the draft, save your cap until you become fringe contenders and spend money since you get bird rights. Or if you are a big market, make room for next years free agent class.

Certainly if some of us idiot fans can understand it a whole staff of highly paid pros can.

Oakmont_4
05-17-2019, 06:18 AM
Their teams are good, but the city is garbage. Rather have it the NY way.

Have you even been? NY is overcrowded, crumbling and dirty. Boston is being totally renovated and gorgeous.

TheDish87
05-17-2019, 09:56 AM
Yea, but Boston is probably the most racist city in sports.

Oakmont_4
05-17-2019, 12:26 PM
Yea, but Boston is probably the most racist city in sports.

Yeah, ok.

TheDish87
05-17-2019, 12:29 PM
its pretty well known at this point. lots of opposing players have spoke about it.

Oakmont_4
05-17-2019, 01:10 PM
its pretty well known at this point. lots of opposing players have spoke about it.

Itís actually called an opinion. Shared by a minority of people. Most of whom donít frequent the city.

TheDish87
05-17-2019, 01:25 PM
yea its not an issie...

https://theundefeated.com/features/boston-five-major-sports-teams-launch-initiative-to-combat-racism/

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/celtics-will-have-be-prepared-address-racism-boston

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/incidents-fenway-exposes-boston-sports-racism

Oakmont_4
05-17-2019, 01:49 PM
yea its not an issie...

https://theundefeated.com/features/boston-five-major-sports-teams-launch-initiative-to-combat-racism/

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/celtics-will-have-be-prepared-address-racism-boston

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/incidents-fenway-exposes-boston-sports-racism

I never denied any past issues or current happenings. Clearly every city has racist people who do racists things. Thanks for point out the obvious. Yes, thereís racist people in Boston. Yes there have been racial incidents. And yes Boston, in the 70ís and earlier was a very racist city.

This is not what you said though. You stated Boston is (meaning currently today) probably the MOST racist city in sports.

That is an opinion. Not a fact. And I disagree with it entirely.

TheDish87
05-17-2019, 01:59 PM
dude, come on this is pretty well known in recent years. sure, every city has racist fans but none of them are as documented as Boston for a reason. the fact that each major sports franchise has teamed up to combat should be pretty ****in telling dont you think?

crewfan13
05-17-2019, 02:34 PM
How does that explain the Suns, Cavs, Clippers, Wizards, Bulls, etc getting the first pick?

It's insane that someone thinks the NBA commits felonies every year to help billionaires get the right ping pong balls.

This! The lotto is always rigged. Sometimes it's rigged for the big teams, sometimes the small teams, sometimes they rig it to add good players to good teams or good players to bad teams.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-17-2019, 02:38 PM
Never understood why people thought a live lottery would solve their insecurities. The very first lottery was done live any that's the one most people called rigged.

Oakmont_4
05-17-2019, 02:38 PM
dude, come on this is pretty well known in recent years. sure, every city has racist fans but none of them are as documented as Boston for a reason. the fact that each major sports franchise has teamed up to combat should be pretty ****in telling dont you think?

Provide facts. Iíll listen. Not one instance articles. Right now you have a weak argument.

TheDish87
05-17-2019, 03:49 PM
They werent one instance articles