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View Full Version : 2020 NBA rules changes/clarifications we need/want to "fix" modern era ball



Scoots
05-03-2019, 09:57 AM
Kirk Goldsberry wrote a book called Sprawl Ball about the changes to the game by the explosion of 3 point shots.

His point, which is something we've talked about here before, is that it's not that there are too many 3s but that post play is devalued, so his suggestions are to make the game more interesting, reduce the 3, and add value for post players.

His suggestions are interesting:

1. The 3 point line's location
a. Leave it to each team to put their line wherever they want it (soccer, baseball, and hockey allow each venue to be different).
I. Teams could have the option to put the line anywhere or nowhere.
II. Teams could be restricted to a range of line locations, like from 22' to 30'.
b. Put the line at wherever it needs to be for the league to average 33.3%, with regular adjustments as needed. Based on last year that would be 25.77'.
c. Make the arc consistent all the way around (ideally with a wider court but not required).
2. Institute a 3 second call for players in the corner 3 area, so nobody can just camp there waiting for a kick out.
3. Narrow the lane. It was widened because centers were too valuable, now they are not valuable enough so let's narrow it.
4. Allow goal tending on 3 point shots.

I like some of his ideas, I think we need to adjust the defensive rules to make the game harder on wings and easier on post players too. He also didn't suggest the euro rules about in the cylinder.

Thoughts?

warfelg
05-03-2019, 10:08 AM
Allowing teams to decide where they want the 3 point line is stupid.

IndyRealist
05-03-2019, 10:28 AM
The simplest fix is to remove the corner 3. It makes the arc easier to guard and takes away the shortest 3, which is the one that questionable shooters take.

Alternately, you can leave it exactly the same and make shots inside the arc 3pts, outside the arc 4pts. That make a 50% shooter inside the arc 1.5pps and a 33% outside shooter 1.33pps, when both those guys are 1.0pps currently. That incentivizes teams to play inside the arc.

warfelg
05-03-2019, 10:35 AM
Actually I hate all of those suggestions. I think that to move on from this, allow some level of contact on the wings, donít call the rip throughs, start calling contact initiated by the offense, make calls under the rim, actually call moving picks.

So you allow tighter defense of guys out wide, defenders wonít be afraid to actually use their arms, and offensive players get that open.

Thatís what will change this.

Scoots
05-03-2019, 02:30 PM
Allowing teams to decide where they want the 3 point line is stupid.

Stupid is a bit harsh. Crazy, or out there maybe, but there is SOME logic to it. The Warriors would put theirs at 28 feet, the Jazz at 3 feet. It certainly would be different and interesting.

Scoots
05-03-2019, 02:33 PM
The simplest fix is to remove the corner 3. It makes the arc easier to guard and takes away the shortest 3, which is the one that questionable shooters take.

Alternately, you can leave it exactly the same and make shots inside the arc 3pts, outside the arc 4pts. That make a 50% shooter inside the arc 1.5pps and a 33% outside shooter 1.33pps, when both those guys are 1.0pps currently. That incentivizes teams to play inside the arc.

I agree on the corner 3, though I think doing that and moving the line back some amount makes sense too.

The 3/4 point split just feels strange, but it's not a bad suggestion.

crewfan13
05-03-2019, 03:08 PM
I think the idea to move the 3pt line back to a point where the league average fg% would be 33.3% makes alot of sense. It still benefits teams to try to find great shooters, but at least the whole league wouldnt be chucking 3s.

Rigjt now the math is in favor of the 3. Moving the line to the 33% mark each year washes that out somewhat. It would encourage teams to try building their team another way since the math wouldnt be so obviously titled to encourage 3s only.

Scoots
05-03-2019, 04:03 PM
I think the idea to move the 3pt line back to a point where the league average fg% would be 33.3% makes alot of sense. It still benefits teams to try to find great shooters, but at least the whole league wouldnt be chucking 3s.

Rigjt now the math is in favor of the 3. Moving the line to the 33% mark each year washes that out somewhat. It would encourage teams to try building their team another way since the math wouldnt be so obviously titled to encourage 3s only.

The best shot in the NBA right now is Harden getting fouled shooting a 3.

Giannis94
05-03-2019, 04:20 PM
The best shot in the NBA right now is Harden getting fouled shooting a 3.

Every 3 pt shot that harden takes and makes should be worth 4 pts for harden but every single time he complains or wines should be -2 pts.

Rad_Racing
05-03-2019, 04:57 PM
Every 3 pt shot that harden takes and makes should be worth 4 pts for harden but every single time he complains or wines should be -2 pts.

Every arena will need to add the ability for negative scores...I'm ok with this.

Giannis94
05-03-2019, 04:59 PM
Every arena will need to add the ability for negative scores...I'm ok with this.

I'm also okay with it. I'm tired of the whinning and complaining if you're not willing to be a banger/G like Giannis and others that attack the lane and not ***** foot around it like harden does.

warfelg
05-03-2019, 06:21 PM
Stupid is a bit harsh. Crazy, or out there maybe, but there is SOME logic to it. The Warriors would put theirs at 28 feet, the Jazz at 3 feet. It certainly would be different and interesting.

I donít think itís harsh. One of the standards of basketball is the dimensions are the exact same no matter where you play. Allowing teams to change the value of shots at a distance without a universal standard is stupid.

Bostonjorge
05-03-2019, 06:52 PM
Donít need any gimmicks with the 3 pointer. Just go back to zero zones. That will instantly bring back the post up game.

Scoots
05-03-2019, 08:10 PM
I donít think itís harsh. One of the standards of basketball is the dimensions are the exact same no matter where you play. Allowing teams to change the value of shots at a distance without a universal standard is stupid.

They are not universal though. They are different in europe and the NBA has changed the dimensions of parts of the court multiple times.

Baseball does it. Hockey does it. Soccer does it. It's not without precedence.

Scoots
05-03-2019, 08:12 PM
Donít need any gimmicks with the 3 pointer. Just go back to zero zones. That will instantly bring back the post up game.

I think it's too late for that. What you get then is Harden only going 1 on 1 even more on his 3s. The zone hurt post play no question, but now defenders have to be out at the line on shooters so much it's not really a problem for post players to get room, it's that their shots are not worth as much.

nastynice
05-03-2019, 08:59 PM
Just push the 3pt line back by 2 feet. Along the sideline push it back like 4 inches.make it a little trickier trying to set up those corner shots, gotta make sure behind 3 without stepping out of bounds

Chronz
05-03-2019, 09:20 PM
Allowing teams to decide where they want the 3 point line is stupid.

I like it, that way we can have different strats and styles of play.

I wouldn't narrow the lane defensively but we should have an offensive line so bigs could post up deeper

ewing
05-03-2019, 09:34 PM
Let them play defense and donít let guys take 5 steps


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ewing
05-03-2019, 09:36 PM
Actually I hate all of those suggestions. I think that to move on from this, allow some level of contact on the wings, donít call the rip throughs, start calling contact initiated by the offense, make calls under the rim, actually call moving picks.

So you allow tighter defense of guys out wide, defenders wonít be afraid to actually use their arms, and offensive players get that open.

Thatís what will change this.

Bingo


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nastynice
05-03-2019, 10:14 PM
Go back in time and stop Steph Curry's God like shooting development

ewing
05-04-2019, 12:25 AM
Go back in time and stop Steph Curry's God like shooting development

He might be the best shooter but he wasnít the first and isnít the only


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Chronz
05-04-2019, 12:28 AM
He might be the best shooter but he wasnít the first and isnít the only


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Before Curry, nobody knew how to count

goingfor28
05-04-2019, 01:48 AM
Call traveling
Suspensions for flopping
Allow defense, no more soft touch fouls

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IndyRealist
05-04-2019, 06:46 AM
Before Curry, nobody listened to the people who knew how to count

Fixed that for ya.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2019, 07:08 AM
Bingo


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this

more defense... its not fair how we handicap the defense and let the offense do whatever... Its not fair that Harden/JJ can kick out their legs and get contact... Its not fair embiid can do a swim move with no real chance of shooting to the basket because all he cares about in that moment is contact or that giannis can just drive with his head down every single game and force contact and get 20 FTA a game... I have major issues with this league and how 3 pointer it has become but the biggest issue is how this league is officiated daily and how refs can change whatever they see fit from quarter to quarter and how the offense gets away with murder.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2019, 07:10 AM
I'm also okay with it. I'm tired of the whinning and complaining if you're not willing to be a banger/G like Giannis and others that attack the lane and not ***** foot around it like harden does.

you didnt just really say this **** after you watched the last 2 games right? Giannis isnt a banger... he is a guy who jumps into contact and gets calls and everyone is ****ing sick of it. Announcers all night were literally mocking the fouls last night... just stop.

crewfan13
05-04-2019, 09:03 AM
The best shot in the NBA right now is Harden getting fouled shooting a 3.

By making the 3pt line deeper, it in theory makes his step backs more difficult. By making them more difficult, you likely make it so he's fouled less while shooting 3s since guys won't feel the need to contest the shot as tightly.

IndyRealist
05-04-2019, 09:09 AM
I don't think it's necessary to change the rules to mitigate James Harden when he has yet to win a ring. :shrug:

THE MTL
05-04-2019, 09:53 AM
They need to get rid of this whole "gather step" and switching of the pivot foot. Players are traveling and its obvious.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2019, 10:37 AM
They need to get rid of this whole "gather step" and switching of the pivot foot. Players are traveling and its obvious.

yes... lets make ben simmons even more offensively useless : (

Scoots
05-04-2019, 12:35 PM
By making the 3pt line deeper, it in theory makes his step backs more difficult. By making them more difficult, you likely make it so he's fouled less while shooting 3s since guys won't feel the need to contest the shot as tightly.

He's actually worse when uncontested than when he's fouled.

I think the "safe landing" rules need to be clarified to include a valid distance a player is protected from their initial jumping point.

Scoots
05-04-2019, 12:36 PM
I don't think it's necessary to change the rules to mitigate James Harden when he has yet to win a ring. :shrug:

Most rule changes in NBA history have not been about titles but about imbalance and aesthetics.

Scoots
05-04-2019, 12:37 PM
They need to get rid of this whole "gather step" and switching of the pivot foot. Players are traveling and its obvious.

When and why did they ever add that extra step??

Giannis94
05-04-2019, 12:47 PM
you didnt just really say this **** after you watched the last 2 games right? Giannis isnt a banger... he is a guy who jumps into contact and gets calls and everyone is ****ing sick of it. Announcers all night were literally mocking the fouls last night... just stop.

giannis isn't a player the association has ever seen before

nastynice
05-04-2019, 12:49 PM
He might be the best shooter but he wasnít the first and isnít the only


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He the first and only to actually change the game/range because of his shooting

nastynice
05-04-2019, 12:51 PM
Before Curry, nobody knew how to count

Before curry, everyone counted by 2's.

Guess what golden state counts by?

Same reason I laugh whenever people think Jordans bulls could beat this team :)

goingfor28
05-04-2019, 05:12 PM
Before curry, everyone counted by 2's.

Guess what golden state counts by?

Same reason I laugh whenever people think Jordans bulls could beat this team :)Jordan's Bulls would smoke this GS team. 5 game series max.

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Saddletramp
05-04-2019, 06:01 PM
Allowing teams to decide where they want the 3 point line is stupid.

Yeah, for some reason baseball teams can make up their own dimensions for their playing fields, anywhere else? Nope.

Saddletramp
05-04-2019, 06:41 PM
Actually I hate all of those suggestions. I think that to move on from this, allow some level of contact on the wings, donít call the rip throughs, start calling contact initiated by the offense, make calls under the rim, actually call moving picks.

So you allow tighter defense of guys out wide, defenders wonít be afraid to actually use their arms, and offensive players get that open.

Thatís what will change this.

Agree with all of this. I hate the rip through and offensive initiated contact, even when Harden and Paul do it.

For some reason, if youíre facing a defender, you can block like an offensive lineman. Doesnít happen as much the last few years (after Durant got there so they donít need it as much) but I saw three different plays (without actually looking for them) where GS players (twice by Draymond), just got in the way of Klayís man and just moved around and pushed his elbow outward to block the defender from advancing. Not saying that it was game changing but thatís nine free points. But if your legs are a half inch too far apart or you stick your butt out byjustthismuch, itís an offensive foul.

GREATNESS ONE
05-04-2019, 06:45 PM
4point circles

Saddletramp
05-04-2019, 06:46 PM
Oh, and one more thing.......the NBA wants to get rid of *****ing? Have set rules of what you can or canít say or do. And stick to it. If you can get 1 technical foul and itís a league wide set amount, it wonít deter some of the big name guys from complaining or fighting.

A playerís first tech should be half of his salary for the game and if he gets a second one and gets thrown out, he loses all of his money for that game to charity. Same goes for flagrant fouls. Treat a flagrant 1 and a tech as two strikes and youíre out of the game and you donít get paid. Or go the opposite way and let them play and stop calling it so tight but be consistent.

warfelg
05-04-2019, 06:57 PM
Oh, and one more thing.......the NBA wants to get rid of *****ing? Have set rules of what you can or canít say or do. And stick to it. If you can get 1 technical foul and itís a league wide set amount, it wonít deter some of the big name guys from complaining or fighting.

A playerís first tech should be half of his salary for the game and if he gets a second one and gets thrown out, he loses all of his money for that game to charity. Same goes for flagrant fouls. Treat a flagrant 1 and a tech as two strikes and youíre out of the game and you donít get paid. Or go the opposite way and let them play and stop calling it so tight but be consistent.

I actually heard a good suggestion on this one:
Bring back the captain patch. 2 per team. If they are on the floor, they are the only ones allowed to talk to the refs. If neither is on the floor, designate 1 player as that guy. If you arenít the designated player or the captain, instant tech for talking back.

TakeYourL
05-04-2019, 07:17 PM
Not liking this suggestion but something needs to change, the NBA has become the most cookie cutter league in sports. Everything and everyone looks the same now. Fundamentals are completely dead, the game looks exactly like a AAU game now.

Scoots
05-04-2019, 07:45 PM
Not liking this suggestion but something needs to change, the NBA has become the most cookie cutter league in sports. Everything and everyone looks the same now. Fundamentals are completely dead, the game looks exactly like a AAU game now.

I don't think any of that is true, except that I do think something has to change.

ewing
05-04-2019, 07:52 PM
Before curry, everyone counted by 2's.

Guess what golden state counts by?

Same reason I laugh whenever people think Jordans bulls could beat this team :)

You guys are boring


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KG2TB
05-04-2019, 08:12 PM
Call traveling
Suspensions for flopping
Allow defense, no more soft touch fouls

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This would make the game so much more watchable for me. Especially the traveling and palming that goes on. It drives me up a wall. Basketball is a game of skill. Being a pro and traveling your *** off isnít impressive. I havenít watched much basketball this year and I tuned in for most of the Bucks/Celts game, and I never knew giannis traveled so much. He has to travel on 40% of his drives.

TakeYourL
05-04-2019, 09:38 PM
I don't think any of that is true, except that I do think something has to change.

The entire league is building the same type of teams pretty much, looking for the same type of players, looking to play exactly the same style of ball.

You find more fundamentals in college basketball now, that's not even an exaggeration.

goingfor28
05-04-2019, 11:24 PM
Another one for me: I hate that an offensive player can be driving with a clear pass to the basket and a defender is allowed to jump in front last second to get a charge. That isn't defense. It's lame.

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Scoots
05-04-2019, 11:25 PM
The entire league is building the same type of teams pretty much, looking for the same type of players, looking to play exactly the same style of ball.

You find more fundamentals in college basketball now, that's not even an exaggeration.

The Spurs, Nuggets, Rockets, and Warriors, to name 4 all play very different styles.

The average college game is far below the average NBA game in fundamentals too. There are fundamental errors in the NBA sure, but the pace is MUCH faster and the windows of opportunity are much smaller. I think the refs have allowed some of the fundamentals to slip in their officiating. But, because of the NBA style of play, the rebounders in college who block out are generally not good enough to make the NBA so that fundamental skill is certainly rare these days in the NBA.

Saddletramp
05-05-2019, 12:20 AM
Another one for me: I hate that an offensive player can be driving with a clear pass to the basket and a defender is allowed to jump in front last second to get a charge. That isn't defense. It's lame.

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Most charges are lame. When a guy just slides over, puts his hands down and expects to be knocked down, itís lame. I wish those would be no calls or blocks every time.

cmellofan15
05-05-2019, 12:44 AM
smart players will always find ways to work around and exploit the rules. the NBA needs to actually follow up and enforce their rule changes if they want to see changes.

Scoots
05-05-2019, 12:51 AM
smart players will always find ways to work around and exploit the rules. the NBA needs to actually follow up and enforce their rule changes if they want to see changes.

This

Scoots
05-05-2019, 12:52 AM
Most charges are lame. When a guy just slides over, puts his hands down and expects to be knocked down, itís lame. I wish those would be no calls or blocks every time.

I'd be fine with the refs doing no-calls when any "foul" is deemed to not have effected the outcome of the play.

goingfor28
05-05-2019, 10:32 AM
Most charges are lame. When a guy just slides over, puts his hands down and expects to be knocked down, itís lame. I wish those would be no calls or blocks every time.Yup. Me too.

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nastynice
05-05-2019, 02:02 PM
Jordan's Bulls would smoke this GS team. 5 game series max.

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lol, cute

It's not about supporting the warriors or opposing the bulls, it's about 3 equals more than 2. It's not a fair comparison, of course golden state would smoke that team, golden state plays by 3's.

Asking one team to score 1.5 baskets for every basket the other team scores, it's just not gonna happen. That's too big a discrepancy

nastynice
05-05-2019, 02:04 PM
Another one for me: I hate that an offensive player can be driving with a clear pass to the basket and a defender is allowed to jump in front last second to get a charge. That isn't defense. It's lame.

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I like how they call charges. First one to the spot wins, seem fair and straight forward to me

Raps18-19 Champ
05-05-2019, 02:40 PM
Allow basket interference to dramatically enhance a big man's value.

lakerfan85
05-05-2019, 03:31 PM
They need to start calling traveling and carrying..

TakeYourL
05-05-2019, 03:40 PM
The Spurs, Nuggets, Rockets, and Warriors, to name 4 all play very different styles.

The average college game is far below the average NBA game in fundamentals too. There are fundamental errors in the NBA sure, but the pace is MUCH faster and the windows of opportunity are much smaller. I think the refs have allowed some of the fundamentals to slip in their officiating. But, because of the NBA style of play, the rebounders in college who block out are generally not good enough to make the NBA so that fundamental skill is certainly rare these days in the NBA.

Those teams dlnt really play that different, they just have differrnt players, so scheme slightly changes to them.

Otherwise it's the same ****, even pop has abandoned his way of playing, because in his own words, fundamentals don't matter in the NBA.

But I do agree that the speed of the game is a major reason for it, and why you see more fundamentals in college, bring done by players who won't make the nba.

It's all about being the longest, most athletic, and being abke to shoot, the rest barely matters in the NBA anymore.

cmellofan15
05-05-2019, 03:49 PM
It's all about being the longest, most athletic, and being abke to shoot, the rest barely matters in the NBA anymore.

so you're saying it comes down to the team that shoots the best and plays the best defense? shocking

goingfor28
05-05-2019, 05:20 PM
lol, cute

It's not about supporting the warriors or opposing the bulls, it's about 3 equals more than 2. It's not a fair comparison, of course golden state would smoke that team, golden state plays by 3's.

Asking one team to score 1.5 baskets for every basket the other team scores, it's just not gonna happen. That's too big a discrepancyThose Bulls teams would out defend and out rebound GS by a mile. It really wouldn't be close. Put Pippen/Jordan on KD. The other on Stef. And let Rodman bang down low.

People thought Pat Bev bothered GS? I'd love to see how they react to Rodman :laugh2:

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warfelg
05-05-2019, 06:28 PM
Those Bulls teams would out defend and out rebound GS by a mile. It really wouldn't be close. Put Pippen/Jordan on KD. The other on Stef. And let Rodman bang down low.

People thought Pat Bev bothered GS? I'd love to see how they react to Rodman :laugh2:

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Cross defending:
Rodman - Green
Pippen - KD
MJ - Steph
(Going 96 version)
Harper - Klay
Longly - Looney

But then the Bulls having Kukoc, Kerr, Wennington VS Livingston, Iggy, and....? is what would really tip it to the Bulls for me.

Saddletramp
05-05-2019, 09:54 PM
Those Bulls teams would out defend and out rebound GS by a mile. It really wouldn't be close. Put Pippen/Jordan on KD. The other on Stef. And let Rodman bang down low.

People thought Pat Bev bothered GS? I'd love to see how they react to Rodman :laugh2:

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Also, imagine Draymond trying his garbage on Jordan or Rodman.

goingfor28
05-05-2019, 10:43 PM
Also, imagine Draymond trying his garbage on Jordan or Rodman.Dray might literally die

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nastynice
05-06-2019, 03:57 AM
Those Bulls teams would out defend and out rebound GS by a mile. It really wouldn't be close. Put Pippen/Jordan on KD. The other on Stef. And let Rodman bang down low.

People thought Pat Bev bothered GS? I'd love to see how they react to Rodman :laugh2:

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Bulls aren't out defending anyone, lol, they have never in their entire 3 peat once had to defend a player at 37 ft.

We have 3 players that require that.

It's not even a bulls vs warriors thing, it's an era thing. Bulls ain't beating the Warriors, period, the game evolved forward not backward. The bulls ain't even beating last years rockets. In a 7 game series last year's rockets are probably gonna Avg 140 pts a game, lol

*omg, I just caught that, Jordan can't guard curry, lmaoooo. You gonna have jordan chasing him all over the court so he can stand in the corner on offense to get his breath back? Cmon man..