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View Full Version : Are the refs interjecting themselves too much?



warfelg
04-04-2019, 10:02 AM
I bring this up because of the past week of questionable ejections and technicals given.

Popovich - Ejected 1:03 into the game
Jokic - Ejected 2 times in the last month
KD - Ejected after a very questionable foul


Earlier this year Trae Young was ejected for a 2 second stare down of a player.

Curry, Durant, Green were all fined after the wild loss. In a game against Brooklyn, DLo was given a tech from the bench, then Embiid and Buter within the next minute. Ben Simmons was ejected with 5 fouls, getting a tech for turning his palms up.

So basic question here:
Are the refs being too thin skinned or are players really crossing the line?

ewing
04-04-2019, 10:55 AM
Of course.

tp13baby
04-04-2019, 11:57 AM
I bring this up because of the past week of questionable ejections and technicals given.

Popovich - Ejected 1:03 into the game
Jokic - Ejected 2 times in the last month
KD - Ejected after a very questionable foul


Earlier this year Trae Young was ejected for a 2 second stare down of a player.

Curry, Durant, Green were all fined after the wild loss. In a game against Brooklyn, DLo was given a tech from the bench, then Embiid and Buter within the next minute. Ben Simmons was ejected with 5 fouls, getting a tech for turning his palms up.

So basic question here:
Are the refs being too thin skinned or are players really crossing the line?

Pop had a chance to just walk away with a t and he kept going.

Jokic besides Washington has been ejected by Tony brothers 3 of his 4 times.

Honestly players should shut up and let refs do there own thing...

Scoots
04-04-2019, 11:58 AM
Yes. The issue is that the refs are too young overall.

kdspurman
04-04-2019, 12:16 PM
Pop had a chance to just walk away with a t and he kept going.

Jokic besides Washington has been ejected by Tony brothers 3 of his 4 times.

Honestly players should shut up and let refs do there own thing...

Pop did not deserve that 2nd T. It was a ridiculous ejection. He deserved to be tossed vs the Kings, he flipped out (& he had reason) But this was just a bs move by the ref

warfelg
04-04-2019, 12:16 PM
Pop had a chance to just walk away with a t and he kept going.

Jokic besides Washington has been ejected by Tony brothers 3 of his 4 times.

Honestly players should shut up and let refs do there own thing...

So when there was a bad call, and Tim Duncan got a tech from the bench because he laughed, Duncan should have done what?

I'm sorry yes, the refs have the authority on the court, but the fact that players can't even talk to some of these refs without getting a tech is absurd. It's easier to say "So-and-so could have walked away" than it is for them to actually do it.

warfelg
04-04-2019, 12:17 PM
Pop did not deserve that 2nd T. It was a ridiculous ejection. He deserved to be tossed vs the Kings, he flipped out (& he had reason) But this was just a bs move by the ref

I agree. Pops ejection was the definition of petty.

kdspurman
04-04-2019, 12:21 PM
Refs definitely seem thin skinned

MarkieMark48
04-04-2019, 01:38 PM
Id rather them be too quick on the whistle than just stand there and be called every name under the sun while someone shoots free throws thinking "I just have to take this **** bc the NBA wants this guy in the game"

tp13baby
04-04-2019, 01:55 PM
So when there was a bad call, and Tim Duncan got a tech from the bench because he laughed, Duncan should have done what?

I'm sorry yes, the refs have the authority on the court, but the fact that players can't even talk to some of these refs without getting a tech is absurd. It's easier to say "So-and-so could have walked away" than it is for them to actually do it.

Talk to these refs? Most the time they donít shut up, up and down the court. Flop consistently and it just gets old.

Duncanís t was one in a million.

MarkieMark48
04-04-2019, 03:09 PM
Talk to these refs? Most the time they donít shut up, up and down the court. Flop consistently and it just gets old.

Duncanís t was one in a million.

this... when a player feels like they get fouled, its more important to them to make sure to let the referee know they missed the call and then call them whatever name(s) they feel appropriate than get back and play defense.... you see this almost every possession, literally.

dhopisthename
04-04-2019, 03:57 PM
I think refs are getting tired of players whining about every single call. The problem is that refs miss some calls every game and players instead of accepting it feel the need to belittle the refs and usually add a few four letter words.

Scoots
04-04-2019, 04:17 PM
Pop did not deserve that 2nd T. It was a ridiculous ejection. He deserved to be tossed vs the Kings, he flipped out (& he had reason) But this was just a bs move by the ref

I just assumed he asked to be booted.

ewing
04-04-2019, 07:06 PM
The players do complain to much. I wouldnít mind the refs making them get in line more. That said the refs also interject themselves into the game too much


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tp13baby
04-04-2019, 07:44 PM
The OP brought up Jokic. He deserved both ejections. Pop had to be wanting to get ejected. These players have so many stops to talk to the refs but they ***** through the game when the refs miss something. Harden doesnít get one call and he starts to ***** until the refs get one back.

There is a great piece about refs. There is a shortage in sports for refs. And this is because coaches, fans and athletes disrespect the hell out of refs. Itís a hard job. So why the hell is it okay for players to kick fans out for getting called boy, barely touching them but they ride the **** out of refs?

Itís sad when refs are actually demanding lock outs because they need to more just to ref a game. One that pays 6 figures. **** is stressful and the shortage and early retirements reflect that.

cmellofan15
04-04-2019, 07:53 PM
Both parties need to be held accountable, but not by each other.

c.c.
04-05-2019, 12:17 AM
Yes

More-Than-Most
04-05-2019, 12:30 AM
go watch the last 2 sixers/bucks game where giannis got 42 fta and 40 plus points on foul calls.

c.c.
04-05-2019, 01:03 AM
go watch the last 2 sixers/bucks game where giannis got 42 fta and 40 plus points on foul calls.

Let that been Harden

More-Than-Most
04-05-2019, 01:10 AM
Let that been Harden

exactly what i said in game thread... tre was trying to cover up for it but had it been harden he would have gotten roasted.

SiteWolf
04-05-2019, 08:44 AM
The NBA has done this to themselves and now have the worst of both worlds IMO.......back when I actually watched the NBA the officiating got more biased and out front (the beginning of the Jordan rules)...but at least players were a 'little' more respectful towards authority in general (officials, coaches, league)......now dozens of players expect Jordan rules, players have too much influence overall, the complaining has passed ridiculous, and officiating has counteracted by trying to interject themselves even more. Good times.

ewing
04-05-2019, 09:20 AM
The NBA has done this to themselves and now have the worst of both worlds IMO.......back when I actually watched the NBA the officiating got more biased and out front (the beginning of the Jordan rules)...but at least players were a 'little' more respectful towards authority in general (officials, coaches, league)......now dozens of players expect Jordan rules, players have too much influence overall, the complaining has passed ridiculous, and officiating has counteracted by trying to interject themselves even more. Good times.

great post

Scoots
04-05-2019, 10:24 AM
The NBA has done this to themselves and now have the worst of both worlds IMO.......back when I actually watched the NBA the officiating got more biased and out front (the beginning of the Jordan rules)...but at least players were a 'little' more respectful towards authority in general (officials, coaches, league)......now dozens of players expect Jordan rules, players have too much influence overall, the complaining has passed ridiculous, and officiating has counteracted by trying to interject themselves even more. Good times.

This, and the rules changes changing the demands on the officials and the massive brain drain the NBA officials crew has had over the last several years has left the NBA in need of better officials. Unfortunately the only thing they can do is wait and keep trying to get better by having officials fail, trying to train them, and bringing in new officials to try. It's going to take years to get better.

Add to that that I think they need another official on the floor. If there were 4 then each official would have shorter distances to travel which would both make them better officials and extend careers of officials. Right now officials have to, by the way the game is being called and played, watch hands ... if there was another official the increase in capacity can be allocated to feet and we can catch illegal screens and travels more.

The refs allowing offensive players to push off, and the refs calling so many ticky tack swipes on defense has resulted in players constantly complaining when they don't get the expected call on offense, and the defender are frustrated because they are not allowed to touch offensive players but the offensive players can shove them off ... the most common complaint I've heard from defenders as games is "What do you expect me to do???" surrounded by explicit language.

LaVar Ball
04-05-2019, 10:49 AM
Bring the back the rules of the 90s. With hand-checking


Problem solved.

Scoots
04-05-2019, 10:52 AM
Bring the back the rules of the 90s. With hand-checking


Problem solved.

Doesn't solve all the other changes and issues.

ewing
04-05-2019, 11:04 AM
This, and the rules changes changing the demands on the officials and the massive brain drain the NBA officials crew has had over the last several years has left the NBA in need of better officials. Unfortunately the only thing they can do is wait and keep trying to get better by having officials fail, trying to train them, and bringing in new officials to try. It's going to take years to get better.

Add to that that I think they need another official on the floor. If there were 4 then each official would have shorter distances to travel which would both make them better officials and extend careers of officials. Right now officials have to, by the way the game is being called and played, watch hands ... if there was another official the increase in capacity can be allocated to feet and we can catch illegal screens and travels more.

The refs allowing offensive players to push off, and the refs calling so many ticky tack swipes on defense has resulted in players constantly complaining when they don't get the expected call on offense, and the defender are frustrated because they are not allowed to touch offensive players but the offensive players can shove them off ... the most common complaint I've heard from defenders as games is "What do you expect me to do???" surrounded by explicit language.

Add more refs to decrease the number of BS fouls called. Sorry Scoots thatís counter intuitive. More refs equals more fouls. They need to change the way they call the game.


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Scoots
04-05-2019, 11:47 AM
Add more refs to decrease the number of BS fouls called. Sorry Scoots thatís counter intuitive. More refs equals more fouls. They need to change the way they call the game.

Yes and no. If the refs were more consistent the players would adjust and end up committing fewer fouls and thus get fewer called. The issue is the missed calls not the called ones.

Every time Harden pushes off with a no call reinforces his belief that he is allowed to push off. The result of that is that when he is correctly called for pushing off he gets more upset and is more likely to get a technical. If he was called every time he pushed off he would stop pushing off and we would reduce foul calls, reduce frustration of players, and have a better game overall.

warfelg
04-05-2019, 11:53 AM
Add more refs to decrease the number of BS fouls called. Sorry Scoots thatís counter intuitive. More refs equals more fouls. They need to change the way they call the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes I was going to say this.

The issue was, IMO, that the NBA put in the idea of allowing refs to just tech up anyone that gets 'demonstrative' with them is what triggered this. What's 'demonstrative'? Obviously some refs view that as any little talking back, while others take that as much more. And that's the issue I'm seeing with it. There's little consistency to what players can do in reaction to a call and that's a huge issue. When we see players get a tech after being called for a foul and giving a "WTF" look; then the next game get to have a 15 second spirited conversation with a ref and have nothing come with it is the problem to me.

I think the NBA needs a better definition of the line that gets crossed. Giving players techs that are just looking for answers is something that 'crosses the line' to me. How can you not even have the chance to understand as to why they were called for something? In my opinion these games that are called so tight are some of the most tense games and the product ends up suffering.

ewing
04-05-2019, 11:53 AM
Yes and no. If the refs were more consistent the players would adjust and end up committing fewer fouls and thus get fewer called. The issue is the missed calls not the called ones.

Every time Harden pushes off with a no call reinforces his belief that he is allowed to push off. The result of that is that when he is correctly called for pushing off he gets more upset and is more likely to get a technical. If he was called every time he pushed off he would stop pushing off and we would reduce foul calls, reduce frustration of players, and have a better game overall.

What? The issue is 100% the called ones. Harden might push off some and he might get away with it some but he also draws 10 fouls a games that should be no calls. Would you prefer it happen 20 times instead?

warfelg
04-05-2019, 11:58 AM
Yes and no. If the refs were more consistent the players would adjust and end up committing fewer fouls and thus get fewer called. The issue is the missed calls not the called ones.

Every time Harden pushes off with a no call reinforces his belief that he is allowed to push off. The result of that is that when he is correctly called for pushing off he gets more upset and is more likely to get a technical. If he was called every time he pushed off he would stop pushing off and we would reduce foul calls, reduce frustration of players, and have a better game overall.

Or on the flip side, he isn't called for the push off, the defender gets mad, and gets called for a tech when saying there should be a call.

Scoots
04-05-2019, 02:10 PM
Yes I was going to say this.

The issue was, IMO, that the NBA put in the idea of allowing refs to just tech up anyone that gets 'demonstrative' with them is what triggered this. What's 'demonstrative'? Obviously some refs view that as any little talking back, while others take that as much more. And that's the issue I'm seeing with it. There's little consistency to what players can do in reaction to a call and that's a huge issue. When we see players get a tech after being called for a foul and giving a "WTF" look; then the next game get to have a 15 second spirited conversation with a ref and have nothing come with it is the problem to me.

I think the NBA needs a better definition of the line that gets crossed. Giving players techs that are just looking for answers is something that 'crosses the line' to me. How can you not even have the chance to understand as to why they were called for something? In my opinion these games that are called so tight are some of the most tense games and the product ends up suffering.

I agree. Inconsistency kills.

Scoots
04-05-2019, 02:14 PM
What? The issue is 100% the called ones. Harden might push off some and he might get away with it some but he also draws 10 fouls a games that should be no calls. Would you prefer it happen 20 times instead?

My point is that players are going to take advantage when they are not called for fouls. If they are called for them they adjust. As an example ... Andrew Bogut set moving screens for years, and the few games where he got called for them a couple times in the first quarter he stopped doing them. If he never got away with them he wouldn't get called for them anymore because he'd stop moving on screens.

If a swipe down was 100% called a foul players would completely stop doing it and those fouls would go away.

It's the fact that players can break the rules sometimes and not other times which results in them breaking the rules intentionally and just accepting the calls against them as the cost of the tactic. If every player on every play was held to the actual rules the number of calls would skyrocket for a couple weeks then they'd go back down, and probably go even lower overall.

Scoots
04-05-2019, 02:16 PM
Or on the flip side, he isn't called for the push off, the defender gets mad, and gets called for a tech when saying there should be a call.

Yes. Consistency is what the players say they want and the officiating is the least consistent I've ever seen.

I also don't agree with the playoffs having a different set of "rules". The game should be called consistently all the time. (and I bet Harden agrees)

warfelg
04-05-2019, 02:27 PM
Yes. Consistency is what the players say they want and the officiating is the least consistent I've ever seen.

I also don't agree with the playoffs having a different set of "rules". The game should be called consistently all the time. (and I bet Harden agrees)

I very much agree, and that's where there's an issue to me. There's no set standard of what brings about the tech. And unless the NBA starts putting forth a standard as to what is going to happen it's only going to get worse.

Saddletramp
04-05-2019, 02:36 PM
Add more refs to decrease the number of BS fouls called. Sorry Scoots thatís counter intuitive. More refs equals more fouls. They need to change the way they call the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Letís go the other way then. No blood, no foul.

ewing
04-05-2019, 03:41 PM
My point is that players are going to take advantage when they are not called for fouls. If they are called for them they adjust. As an example ... Andrew Bogut set moving screens for years, and the few games where he got called for them a couple times in the first quarter he stopped doing them. If he never got away with them he wouldn't get called for them anymore because he'd stop moving on screens.

If a swipe down was 100% called a foul players would completely stop doing it and those fouls would go away.

It's the fact that players can break the rules sometimes and not other times which results in them breaking the rules intentionally and just accepting the calls against them as the cost of the tactic. If every player on every play was held to the actual rules the number of calls would skyrocket for a couple weeks then they'd go back down, and probably go even lower overall.

Its not missed calls that should be called its calls that should be play ons. The league decided that any contact on a driver is a foul and guys make a living drawing fouls and blowing by guys that know they have to give them 3 feet of air space or get called for a foul. Unless, we change what is a foul more refs will equal more fouls. We need more good guys with whistles like well you know

Scoots
04-05-2019, 11:54 PM
Letís go the other way then. No blood, no foul.

Need to get rid of all the flagrant rules too or players would be getting suspended every other game.

Scoots
04-05-2019, 11:56 PM
Its not missed calls that should be called its calls that should be play ons. The league decided that any contact on a driver is a foul and guys make a living drawing fouls and blowing by guys that know they have to give them 3 feet of air space or get called for a foul. Unless, we change what is a foul more refs will equal more fouls. We need more good guys with whistles like well you know

I agree, but that's only some of the fouls called, and a lot of them are being called against the rules. If an offensive player creates the contact it should be a play-on or an offensive foul, but it's called on the defender most of the time. If a defender has their hand somewhere "risky" they get the call regardless of whether there was an actual foul or not. Officials guess all the time, and they should never be allowed to do that.