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Scoots
04-01-2019, 11:48 AM
Coach K has concerns with NCAA handling it. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2019/03/30/mike-krzyzewski-wants-ncaa-play-end-nba-one-and-done/3322188002/

When we were talking about it last off-season I had questions about how it was going to be managed when players were developed by a team that didn't hold their NBA rights. Well, we didn't have to wait until next year. The Warriors sat their best non NBA rights player for the showcase games to "hide" him, Alen Smailagic 6'10" from Serbia. Apparently it pissed off several teams who sent people just to see him. This kind of thing is going to get worse and I don't see a solution.

Chronz
04-01-2019, 12:28 PM
What's the big deal again?

Cal827
04-01-2019, 01:15 PM
One of Coach K's quotes was the following:

“And that should include what an athlete gets, how he's been taken care of, whether or not there's a reentry if something – really, it's deep. And if we only look at it shallow, then we're doing a disservice to the kids. And that's why I would hope that the NCAA has someone leading this to figure it all out.”


That's great, but remember this is the NCAA. They care about the profit margin and don't give a flying **** about the Kids. Asking an organization to give the students things, and take proper care of them so it would minimize the risks (For example, if they don't make the NBA) and are set up post-collegiate basketball, that is used to doing ****all for them probably won't lead to anything significant unfortunately.

Edit: My bad, I thought that after drafting, they were supposed to stay with the NBA team (or their affiliate) once being drafted. I didn't know that they could possibly be placed back

crewfan13
04-01-2019, 01:36 PM
Not exactly the article, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out. There's a real benefit to all parties if you can figure out a rule that keeps the kids in school who should be in school and get the kids to the league who can play in the league asap.

I'm okay with re entry to ncaa, but I'm not a fan of draft and stash if that's what people want to bring to the ncaa. I think an interesting move would be to set a hard stop in the draft. If you want to come out of high school and are drafted in the lotto, you can stay in the league. If you're not taken in the lotto, you're no longer draft eligible (you still can make a choice to declare or not, so if you dont want to be drafted, you wont be). Then expand the same rules to freshman but maybe bump the requirements to top 20 or first round.

Scoots
04-01-2019, 02:15 PM
Paying the athletes is a bit of an issue because they will probably want a lot more money than there is to go around. Even if the NCAA decided to pay the athletes and to make no money for the schools I suspect the system will collapse and it won't make much of a difference to the student athletes who are "planning" on multi-million dollar contracts in their future.

cmellofan15
04-01-2019, 04:30 PM
Zion walked so future basketball players could fly

They need to treat these athletes like they are humans and let them make money for their skilled labor. They aren't horses you can just trot out and reward with nice snacks and a cushy stable. Give them the opportunity to go straight to the NBA/G League and make it a viable option, or just allow them to be paid through endorsements and selling their likeness.

beasted86
04-01-2019, 07:42 PM
Zion walked so future basketball players could fly

They need to treat these athletes like they are humans and let them make money for their skilled labor. They aren't horses you can just trot out and reward with nice snacks and a cushy stable. Give them the opportunity to go straight to the NBA/G League and make it a viable option, or just allow them to be paid through endorsements and selling their likeness.

The latter is the solution but they're too foolish to realize it.

crewfan13
04-01-2019, 09:41 PM
I'm for ncaa reform and the amateur athlete line is such a load of crap. But allowing players to get paid for their likeness is a very slippery slope. It changes the game in recruiting and in all honesty, unless you cap earnings, it's going to turn into paying for play if yoh allow athletes to get paid for their likeness. Wealthy boosters will just start paying $100k+ for a signed jersey as soon as the kid graduates high school as a recruiting tool for the big programs.

Heediot
04-02-2019, 08:13 AM
coach k feels the one and done would suffice when he is retired.

Heediot
04-02-2019, 08:16 AM
Paying the athletes is a bit of an issue because they will probably want a lot more money than there is to go around. Even if the NCAA decided to pay the athletes and to make no money for the schools I suspect the system will collapse and it won't make much of a difference to the student athletes who are "planning" on multi-million dollar contracts in their future.

budget properly, and the market will dictate itself.

Heediot
04-02-2019, 08:51 AM
^^^

Pats forum

Scoots
04-02-2019, 09:37 AM
budget properly, and the market will dictate itself.

But it's not a free market. By law colleges can't have unequal distribution of money between sports.

IndyRealist
04-02-2019, 11:39 AM
But it's not a free market. By law colleges can't have unequal distribution of money between sports.

Free markets don't work past a community level anyway.

ewing
04-02-2019, 11:47 AM
Free markets don't work past a community level anyway.

yeah, if everything is free what kind of market is that?

Scoots
04-02-2019, 01:04 PM
yeah, if everything is free what kind of market is that?

hehe

zookman65
04-05-2019, 09:30 PM
There will still be plenty of mediocre players with no NBA prospects to fill out every team in the country and bore us to death with low quality basketball until March Madness hits in which we all get excited over low quality basketball due to gambling brackets etc.

warfelg
04-06-2019, 09:00 AM
I put forth my same proposal I have the last few years with some tweaks:

1) Do away with one and done. It was don’t to protect teams from themselves and it’s made things worse.

2) Draft change: Players selected straight from HS must spend 3 years in the GL. Yes this requires every NBA team to have a GL team. There’s I think 2 holdouts. Tell them tough **** sell the team if you don’t like it.

Conversely, players that go to the NCAA stay at least 2 years, but are NBA eligible as soon as they are drafted.

So here’s your best of both worlds. Players can get paid, but they wait an extra year. In both cases teams are protected from themselves.

3) If a team selects a HS player, they may still select in the top 5 the next year. Select 2 straight HS players and lose the ability to pick in the top 5 the next year.

If a team selects an NCAA player, the lose the ability to have a top 2 pick the following year.

This prevents teams from selecting 3 straight top HS players and being able to “double up” on top picks/prolonged tanking.

4) Minimum of 1 NCAA player must be drafted in a 3 year cycle. Again this one is to prevent prolonged tanking of multiple season and “stashing” players in the GL while sucking.

5) Expand rosters to 18 protected players with a max of 15 in the NBA at a time. Think of this like the MLB 40 man roster idea.

6) HS players being held in the GL can be traded in NBA trades. This really opens up new possibilities.

7) Expand the drafts to 3 rounds.

Scoots
04-06-2019, 01:30 PM
I put forth my same proposal I have the last few years with some tweaks:

1) Do away with one and done. It was don’t to protect teams from themselves and it’s made things worse.

2) Draft change: Players selected straight from HS must spend 3 years in the GL. Yes this requires every NBA team to have a GL team. There’s I think 2 holdouts. Tell them tough **** sell the team if you don’t like it.

Conversely, players that go to the NCAA stay at least 2 years, but are NBA eligible as soon as they are drafted.

So here’s your best of both worlds. Players can get paid, but they wait an extra year. In both cases teams are protected from themselves.

3) If a team selects a HS player, they may still select in the top 5 the next year. Select 2 straight HS players and lose the ability to pick in the top 5 the next year.

If a team selects an NCAA player, the lose the ability to have a top 2 pick the following year.

This prevents teams from selecting 3 straight top HS players and being able to “double up” on top picks/prolonged tanking.

4) Minimum of 1 NCAA player must be drafted in a 3 year cycle. Again this one is to prevent prolonged tanking of multiple season and “stashing” players in the GL while sucking.

5) Expand rosters to 18 protected players with a max of 15 in the NBA at a time. Think of this like the MLB 40 man roster idea.

6) HS players being held in the GL can be traded in NBA trades. This really opens up new possibilities.

7) Expand the drafts to 3 rounds.

I am 100% in on all of this.

The GL draft thing followed by the same players being re-drafted into the NBA never made sense to me.

warfelg
04-06-2019, 04:01 PM
I am 100% in on all of this.

The GL draft thing followed by the same players being re-drafted into the NBA never made sense to me.

Yea. I’ve always been about let them get paid, but also make there be a wait for choosing that route.

Maybe less guys pick the quick pay. Maybe it increases it. But I think it gives a route, improves the GL, and makes the nba overall better.

zookman65
04-10-2019, 11:29 PM
Why force them to play in the GL? So a LeBron, Kobe, Luka, type player needs to be forced to stay in a GL for 3 years because they chose not to go to college. Replacing one artificial barrier with an even more onerous one. I dont get it.

warfelg
04-11-2019, 07:50 AM
Why force them to play in the GL? So a LeBron, Kobe, Luka, type player needs to be forced to stay in a GL for 3 years because they chose not to go to college. Replacing one artificial barrier with an even more onerous one. I dont get it.

Paid GL money, shoe deal, sponsorship money, year round training. Those are things you wouldn't get in the NCAA.

Veteran players don't want HS kids coming in because it's cheaper for teams to pay draft picks. GM's talk about how the one and done has made it harder for them to scout talent. Coaches talk about how they just don't have time to develop guys, especially teams that pick a little later.

LeBron was a rarity in how ready he was. Kobe took 2-3 years to develop. Luka is a Euro player so wouldn't be subject to that.

Consider those names you said, and then these names straight from high school: Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Darius Mies, Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, JR Smith, Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith, DeShawn Stevenson, DeSagana Diop, Robert Swift, Martell Webster, Gerald Green. Those are all guys straight from college to NBA that either took real long to develop (Harrington, Lewis, Smith, Green) or never never developed because either they had to do too much too fast, or never saw the court. Could some of those guys still have been busts? Sure. But I think that there's a good chance some of them pan out a bit better if they got playing time or had that more focused coaching.

zookman65
04-11-2019, 11:51 PM
Paid GL money, shoe deal, sponsorship money, year round training. Those are things you wouldn't get in the NCAA.

Veteran players don't want HS kids coming in because it's cheaper for teams to pay draft picks. GM's talk about how the one and done has made it harder for them to scout talent. Coaches talk about how they just don't have time to develop guys, especially teams that pick a little later.

LeBron was a rarity in how ready he was. Kobe took 2-3 years to develop. Luka is a Euro player so wouldn't be subject to that.

Consider those names you said, and then these names straight from high school: Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Darius Mies, Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, JR Smith, Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith, DeShawn Stevenson, DeSagana Diop, Robert Swift, Martell Webster, Gerald Green. Those are all guys straight from college to NBA that either took real long to develop (Harrington, Lewis, Smith, Green) or never never developed because either they had to do too much too fast, or never saw the court. Could some of those guys still have been busts? Sure. But I think that there's a good chance some of them pan out a bit better if they got playing time or had that more focused coaching.

Thanks for the reply. I more clearly understand your point. Agree that getting paid and intensified GL coaching relative to an NBA style game probably advantageous in long run over the "faux-college" experience.

warfelg
04-12-2019, 08:04 AM
Thanks for the reply. I more clearly understand your point. Agree that getting paid and intensified GL coaching relative to an NBA style game probably advantageous in long run over the "faux-college" experience.

To me what happens with my proposal is we can stop having the "NCAA should pay them" argument with basketball. It allows the separation some that guys that want to get paid, get paid. Guys that prefer college get college. The reason I have different timelines for the two (3 years GL vs 2 years college) is I believe that there needs to be some 'reward' for going to college or else the NCAA would suffer big time from it.

I think in this you would see some recent high picks go through the draft ASAP. Zion, Simmons, AD would likely put in a few GL years as opposed to college. But think of a few lower recruited 1-and-dones that might not be picked high or might have developed more staying. Fultz, Jackson, Smith. You would have a better idea of what they are like.

A guy that I picture this benefits the most is a guy like Skas Labissiere. Came out after 1 year, had the knee problems, didn't get run with the Kings, isn't getting run with the Trailblazers. But he's a talented guy. So if he either had an extra year at Kentucky or had 2 more years in the GL think of the extra coaching and time he would have had to develop. Then by the time he's NBA eligible teams know more what they are getting out of him without having to worry about what it means for their season.

And where this becomes interesting (IMO) is think you are a team like the Dallas Mavericks. You got Luka and Porz going into next year. And lets assume none of the freshmen in this class are available, and the Mavs end up with the number 1 pick. Do you take the 2 year college player in Ja Morant who can play for you right away? Or do take a draft eligible James Wiseman (2019's top recruit) and know he won't help you until 2022-2023 season? What about if you are a team like the Suns, who aren't close, but at the same time need to get better? I think at the top of the draft it creates some interesting situations.

I think it also really helps out some guys. Take 2019's #20 recruit, Onlyeka Okongwu a 6-8 PF. He could go to USC (like he is going to), or he could get in the draft, fall to the lower 1st, and end up with say a team like the Indiana Pacers who are great at developing players. Then he can get in their system, get NBA coaching, NBA fitness, be in camp with the Pacers. I think it takes some guys like that and helps put them in a position to succeed.e

Scoots
04-12-2019, 09:36 AM
To me what happens with my proposal is we can stop having the "NCAA should pay them" argument with basketball. It allows the separation some that guys that want to get paid, get paid. Guys that prefer college get college. The reason I have different timelines for the two (3 years GL vs 2 years college) is I believe that there needs to be some 'reward' for going to college or else the NCAA would suffer big time from it.

I think in this you would see some recent high picks go through the draft ASAP. Zion, Simmons, AD would likely put in a few GL years as opposed to college. But think of a few lower recruited 1-and-dones that might not be picked high or might have developed more staying. Fultz, Jackson, Smith. You would have a better idea of what they are like.

A guy that I picture this benefits the most is a guy like Skas Labissiere. Came out after 1 year, had the knee problems, didn't get run with the Kings, isn't getting run with the Trailblazers. But he's a talented guy. So if he either had an extra year at Kentucky or had 2 more years in the GL think of the extra coaching and time he would have had to develop. Then by the time he's NBA eligible teams know more what they are getting out of him without having to worry about what it means for their season.

And where this becomes interesting (IMO) is think you are a team like the Dallas Mavericks. You got Luka and Porz going into next year. And lets assume none of the freshmen in this class are available, and the Mavs end up with the number 1 pick. Do you take the 2 year college player in Ja Morant who can play for you right away? Or do take a draft eligible James Wiseman (2019's top recruit) and know he won't help you until 2022-2023 season? What about if you are a team like the Suns, who aren't close, but at the same time need to get better? I think at the top of the draft it creates some interesting situations.

I think it also really helps out some guys. Take 2019's #20 recruit, Onlyeka Okongwu a 6-8 PF. He could go to USC (like he is going to), or he could get in the draft, fall to the lower 1st, and end up with say a team like the Indiana Pacers who are great at developing players. Then he can get in their system, get NBA coaching, NBA fitness, be in camp with the Pacers. I think it takes some guys like that and helps put them in a position to succeed.e

Another side to your proposal is that the G-league would quickly make more money than it is now which means those players will start making more money which will cause more to choose that route. NCAA then becomes a college thing and not the pro-sports thing they are trying make it be. Best of both worlds.