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View Full Version : Blind Comparison, what more do you need to know?



Chronz
03-24-2019, 07:21 PM
Yeah I know, unless you're familiar with the era and/or saw the them play, it's impossible to compare. **** all dat. Tell me who's better or what more you might need to know. And yes, they played vs each other.

Player A vs Player B




Player A vs Players B
Years Served: 16 vs 17
All-NBA 1st : 1 vs 1
DPOY : 2 vs 0
All-Def. 1st: 2 vs 0
All-Def. 2nd : 0 vs 3
RS Win%: 58.6 vs 57.3
PS Win% 50.5 vs 51.8
NBA Chips: 1 vs 0


STATS (PER 36):
Player A: 20-10-1 (3.3blk)
Player B: 22-10-2 (2.6blk)


APBR Metrics:
Player A: 21.2 PER, .166 WSx48
Player B: 21.0 PER, .150 WSx48

Jamiecballer
03-24-2019, 07:30 PM
Yeah I know, unless you're familiar with the era and/or saw the them play, it's impossible to compare. **** all dat. Tell me who's better or what more you might need to know. And yes, they played vs each other.

Player A vs Player B




Player A vs Players B
Years Served: 16 vs 17
All-NBA 1st : 1 vs 1
DPOY : 2 vs 0
All-Def. 1st: 2 vs 0
All-Def. 2nd : 0 vs 3
RS Win%: 58.6 vs 57.3
PS Win% 50.5 vs 51.8
NBA Chips: 1 vs 0


STATS (PER 36):
Player A: 20-10-1 (3.3blk)
Player B: 22-10-2 (2.6blk)


APBR Metrics:
Player A: 21.2 PER, .166 WSx48
Player B: 21.0 PER, .150 WSx48
I think you'd be stupid to look at that and say that you have anywhere near enough to say. So the answer is: a whole lot.

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ewing
03-24-2019, 09:12 PM
J


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Heediot
03-24-2019, 10:02 PM
zo vs. ewing?

tredigs
03-25-2019, 10:54 AM
C'mon Chronz. That's not enough information in the least. And PER/WS-48 as the two APBR stats is weak.

crewfan13
03-25-2019, 11:57 AM
I do think it's fair statistical question though. From the stats given, what's the least amount of additional information (besides name) needed to be at least relatively confident in making a judgment?

Chronz
03-25-2019, 12:01 PM
Lol read the damn post.

ewing
03-25-2019, 12:03 PM
I do think it's fair statistical question though. From the stats given, what's the least amount of additional information (besides name) needed to be at least relatively confident in making a judgment?

The numbers are far to close to make a judgement without an eye test

Scoots
03-25-2019, 01:20 PM
I'll wait until we have a stat that reliably reflects defensive impact ... then I want that stat.

tredigs
03-25-2019, 01:42 PM
I'll wait until we have a stat that reliably reflects defensive impact ... then I want that stat.

Very difficult as so much of defense is about prevention, rather than actual created stats. That said, I'm liking PIPM (DPIPM) for publicly available stats these days. As far as Defensive PIPM, it rates the worst defenders as Devin Booker and Trae Young. The best as Rudy Gobert for bigs and Covington for wings. And Giannis 5th both in offense and defense PIPM. The top 5 in multi-year PIPM being Curry - gap - Giannis, KD, Embiid, Anthony Davis, Harden, Lebron and Jokic. The top 3 in multi-year defnsive PIPM being Gobert, RoCo and Draymond. Math checks out.

tredigs
03-25-2019, 01:49 PM
2018/19 PIPM with multi-year PIPM on the right hand side: https://www.bball-index.com/18-pipm/


Player Impact Plus-Minus is a metric that combines traditional boxscore value with luck-adjusted on/off player data to estimate how much value a player adds to their team.

Luck-adjusted data, developed by Nathan Walker, is used to adjusted for factors that are out of an individual team or player’s control. For instance, free throw shooting and three point shooting can cause wide variance in the specific ratings, but in studies it has been shown that teams and players have limited control over makes or misses. Another example is adjusting for rebounding and turnovers to attempt to limit the noise from the final values.

The boxscore component is calculated off a regression from a 15-year RAPM sample. Especially on offense, there is real value to be found in the traditional boxscore. Combining that with more advanced play by play data, PIPM is able to see who is adding value that the boxscore is unable to capture.