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View Full Version : Wait, who won the Gasol-Val trade again?



Chronz
03-17-2019, 07:00 PM
Haven't followed the Raptors since the trade but I don't think they've lit the world on fire since, I do know their assist rates have increased since.

On the other side, the grizz have been surprisingly competitive and jonas is still putting up monster numbers.

Have the Raptors missed his offense? Did both teams win?

Heediot
03-17-2019, 07:06 PM
Memphis won. I don't think Toronto lost, but Memphis came out on top.

Memphis can re-up him for the rebuild.

I think Toronto is roughly the same or slightly better with Marc. In the long run, Gasol seems like a guy that would re-up for very cheap after his mid 30's. Raps were probably not re-upping all the guys they traded. There might have been a chance they re-sign Jonas, if they fail to re-up Kawhi though. But they are planning with Kawhi there long term and Jonas was going to eat up some needed cap and make the luxury tax issues more complicated.

Heediot
03-17-2019, 07:09 PM
Marc's foot speed get exposed at times and his offense is inconsistent as it was in Memphis. His looks and shots probably went down because Raps have more weapons around him. I think his ability to create in the half court will pay dividend in the playoffs. He can still defend in ways because of his mind and court sense, but like I said some times his feet can't keep up with his brain.

Jamiecballer
03-17-2019, 07:31 PM
Haven't followed the Raptors since the trade but I don't think they've lit the world on fire since, I do know their assist rates have increased since.

On the other side, the grizz have been surprisingly competitive and jonas is still putting up monster numbers.

Have the Raptors missed his offense? Did both teams win?I liked this trade for the grizz from day one. Gasol is way past his best days.

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Bostonjorge
03-17-2019, 07:36 PM
Val trade opened it up for Siakam who’s Toronto’s best offensive big.

TakeYourL
03-17-2019, 07:47 PM
Playoffs will decide this tbh.

Gasol helps them make the jump and none of this other stuff matters.

aman_13
03-17-2019, 08:50 PM
At this point I'm hoping this trade pays off come playoff time.

They miss his efficiency on the offensive end more than anything and also his rebounding. Masai rarely loses trades; he might have lost this one.

aman_13
03-17-2019, 08:50 PM
Val trade opened it up for Siakam who’s Toronto’s best offensive big.

Siakam has been doing great all year.

smith&wesson
03-19-2019, 11:03 AM
Haven't followed the Raptors since the trade but I don't think they've lit the world on fire since, I do know their assist rates have increased since.

On the other side, the grizz have been surprisingly competitive and jonas is still putting up monster numbers.

Have the Raptors missed his offense? Did both teams win?

As a Raptors fan I feel we lost the trade hands down... Memphis made a great trade, Gasol looks like a role player off the bench and even in that role Jonas was way better. I don’t think Gasol can jump over a text book

smith&wesson
03-19-2019, 11:05 AM
At this point I'm hoping this trade pays off come playoff time.

They miss his efficiency on the offensive end more than anything and also his rebounding. Masai rarely loses trades; he might have lost this one.

He def lost this one.... Gasol makes 25 mill and gives you half the production Jonas does with 14 mill

smith&wesson
03-19-2019, 11:06 AM
Val trade opened it up for Siakam who’s Toronto’s best offensive big.

Siakam is a 4, Jonas is a 5, neither of them were taking mins away from one another.

smith&wesson
03-19-2019, 11:07 AM
I liked this trade for the grizz from day one. Gasol is way past his best days.

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+1

smith&wesson
03-19-2019, 11:08 AM
Memphis won. I don't think Toronto lost, but Memphis came out on top.

Memphis can re-up him for the rebuild.

I think Toronto is roughly the same or slightly better with Marc. In the long run, Gasol seems like a guy that would re-up for very cheap after his mid 30's. Raps were probably not re-upping all the guys they traded. There might have been a chance they re-sign Jonas, if they fail to re-up Kawhi though. But they are planning with Kawhi there long term and Jonas was going to eat up some needed cap and make the luxury tax issues more complicated.

Gasol is already in his mid 30’s. He’s 34 and has a player option for 25 mill next year.

smith&wesson
03-19-2019, 11:11 AM
I’m looking for Gasol to come off the bench and lead that 2nd unit. Our bench has been terrible and my hope is that Gasol can give them a boost with his play making ability. We just got Fred back too, the two of them are basically our entire bench along with OG. Lin needs to be out of the rotation all together he’s trash

Chronz
03-19-2019, 12:50 PM
I apologize for saying the word since like 3 times in one stanza.


Also, idk what stanza means but my drunk self thinks it works here

R. Johnson#3
03-19-2019, 03:58 PM
I was an avid JV fan and got excited about this trade the moment it went down. I'm getting less and less excited with each passing day though. JV was consistent, reliable offence and rebounding. Gasol has been up and down on both ends of the floor since he's come over. He's not the defensive stalwart he once was but that was expected.

It's going to come down to the playoffs and I trust that Nick Nurse will realize that Gasol needs to come off the bench. He's more talented than Ibaka but his talents would be much more useful with that 2nd unit. JV's production took a hit when he came off the bench and so does Ibaka's. Gasol's definitely does too but he's more of a playmaker than both of those guys which is what our 2nd unit really needs.

Basically his playmaking and defence will need to take a big step up come playoff time. If he can get a little more consistent with the scoring then that's a bonus. If he doesn't, then this may be Masai's first real L because that 25 mil will not be fun to have next year.

Bostonjorge
03-21-2019, 12:29 AM
Siakam has been balling since the trade. Gasol trade was most likely to have a big body for Embiid.

Cal827
03-21-2019, 12:33 AM
Siakam has been balling since the trade. Gasol trade was most likely to have a big body for Embiid.

The odd thing is, that at least from the games I've seen. JV has stood his own or outplayed Embiid. Of course I'm not sure if he could persist for a 7 game series, but he seems to step it up against the opposing bigs (Especially in cases where they say the other guy has a big advantage e.g. A few years ago against Whiteside before they both got hurt).

I'm happy that people are recognizing JV's ability though. We'll see what happens in the post season, cause I feel Gasol gives the team the bigger chance to go farther (as we could play him in other situations, like the Bucks or Celtics). Essentially Boom or Bust for us.

Heediot
03-21-2019, 07:50 AM
Gasol is already in his mid 30’s. He’s 34 and has a player option for 25 mill next year.

I feel you, that's what I mean after he opt in for another year, he'll be the type of dude that won't get greedy/snake like like those Banana boat boys. Wade played Chicago for the money. I see Gasol signing a friendly deal if he likes Toronto or a friendly deal with another contender. You might even see him restructure the contract like his bro, Timmy, Dirk and those type of guys and not take the full opt in. Although I expect him to opt in.

I think with Jonas in Memphis, he has the green light. For the past half decade he had to play 3rd to 5th fiddle which effected his output and development (or what we see from it). He is showing everyone what he is capable of on offense. Good for him. If he had Marc's IQ, he'd be dominant on both ends (or at least above average on D). Even if Jonas was here still, he'd be putting up the same numbers pre injury and not the ones you see in Memphis. So we have to gauge the trade for the Raptors through that aspect. I definitely agree Memphis won the trade though.

We will see though, it doesn't mater what happens in the regular season. We've seen DD and Kyle put up allstars numbers and then slip a bunch when it matters. Let's hope Marc can elevate the team in ways when it matters.

Jamiecballer
03-21-2019, 08:00 AM
His numbers are essentially the same adjusted for more mins on the court. He is doing what he did in Toronto.

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FlakeyFool
03-21-2019, 08:18 AM
extends the "window" another year after kawhi leaves. Masai has been trying to trade him for the past few years now

Heediot
03-21-2019, 08:24 AM
His numbers are essentially the same adjusted for more mins on the court. He is doing what he did in Toronto.

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interesting... I still feel he is better maximized elsewhere.

zn23
03-21-2019, 09:26 AM
This was a huge blunder by Masai.

JV was having a career year with the raps. Maybe it was due to a contract year, Who knows? He was always consistently solid, and then this season he raised his game and now he's tearing it up with the Grizz.

He's playing as well as he played for the Raps right now for Grizz. Gasol is playing pretty much the same as well, except he's declining as a player.

Heediot
03-21-2019, 09:30 AM
I think Jonas expires next year.

aman_13
03-21-2019, 12:53 PM
Here is the thing about Val though, he can't do what Marc did last night. The Raptors needed his playmaking ability to take some pressure off Kawhi and Lowry. That's why they made the trade.

As long as he's making reads, spreading the floor and hitting threes, the Raptors got what they wanted.

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zn23
03-21-2019, 02:17 PM
I think Jonas expires next year.

He's got a player option next season, as does Gasol.

I think the expectation was that he was going to opt out and become a free agent where he could've gotten $20M/year if he wanted.

smith&wesson
03-21-2019, 04:14 PM
He's got a player option next season, as does Gasol.

I think the expectation was that he was going to opt out and become a free agent where he could've gotten $20M/year if he wanted.

He will probably opt out to get more money.

smith&wesson
03-21-2019, 04:17 PM
I feel you, that's what I mean after he opt in for another year, he'll be the type of dude that won't get greedy/snake like like those Banana boat boys. Wade played Chicago for the money. I see Gasol signing a friendly deal if he likes Toronto or a friendly deal with another contender. You might even see him restructure the contract like his bro, Timmy, Dirk and those type of guys and not take the full opt in. Although I expect him to opt in.

I think with Jonas in Memphis, he has the green light. For the past half decade he had to play 3rd to 5th fiddle which effected his output and development (or what we see from it). He is showing everyone what he is capable of on offense. Good for him. If he had Marc's IQ, he'd be dominant on both ends (or at least above average on D). Even if Jonas was here still, he'd be putting up the same numbers pre injury and not the ones you see in Memphis. So we have to gauge the trade for the Raptors through that aspect. I definitely agree Memphis won the trade though.

We will see though, it doesn't mater what happens in the regular season. We've seen DD and Kyle put up allstars numbers and then slip a bunch when it matters. Let's hope Marc can elevate the team in ways when it matters.

yeah but Jonas always came up big in the playoffs.. If he opts out I hope we can sign him, and maybe restructure gasols deal. That's unlikely though.

Jamiecballer
03-21-2019, 05:47 PM
yeah but Jonas always came up big in the playoffs.. If he opts out I hope we can sign him, and maybe restructure gasols deal. That's unlikely though.Me too

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Eagles4Lyfe
03-24-2019, 10:25 AM
:laugh: so typical people creaming themselves because they stare at empty numbers he's producing on a bottom feeder and think he's sick.

The man still sucks defensively. Jonas if given the chance always can put up double doubles but his defense is atrocious.

I love the trade and would still do the trade now knowing what we still know.
Some teams going to pay him 20M and suffer. I hope Gasol opts in because I highly doubt any team will give him.20M and we trade him at deadline if Kawhi leaves.

smith&wesson
03-24-2019, 10:43 AM
:laugh: so typical people creaming themselves because they stare at empty numbers he's producing on a bottom feeder and think he's sick.

The man still sucks defensively. Jonas if given the chance always can put up double doubles but his defense is atrocious.

I love the trade and would still do the trade now knowing what we still know.
Some teams going to pay him 20M and suffer. I hope Gasol opts in because I highly doubt any team will give him.20M and we trade him at deadline if Kawhi leaves.

He’s owed 25 million next year obviously he’s going to opt in ...

Chronz
03-24-2019, 03:00 PM
:laugh: so typical people creaming themselves because they stare at empty numbers he's producing on a bottom feeder and think he's sick.

The man still sucks defensively. Jonas if given the chance always can put up double doubles but his defense is atrocious.

I love the trade and would still do the trade now knowing what we still know.
Some teams going to pay him 20M and suffer. I hope Gasol opts in because I highly doubt any team will give him.20M and we trade him at deadline if Kawhi leaves.

They've been traded for each other, we can see how each has produced on each other's team. I don't get your point, whos helped both teams more in your view?

Jamiecballer
03-24-2019, 07:32 PM
[emoji23] so typical people creaming themselves because they stare at empty numbers he's producing on a bottom feeder and think he's sick.

The man still sucks defensively. Jonas if given the chance always can put up double doubles but his defense is atrocious.

I love the trade and would still do the trade now knowing what we still know.
Some teams going to pay him 20M and suffer. I hope Gasol opts in because I highly doubt any team will give him.20M and we trade him at deadline if Kawhi leaves.Get a clue. His number are essentially identical to his numbers year in year out for a "top feeder" - adjusted for the increase of 7 mpg lmao

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Jamiecballer
03-24-2019, 07:34 PM
They've been traded for each other, we can see how each has produced on each other's team. I don't get your point, whos helped both teams more in your view?For context this guy used to be a regular on the raptors forum until his neverending Masai Ujiri sucks comments became too embarrassing even for him

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zn23
03-25-2019, 11:00 PM
JV just had another monster game and completely dominated Steven Adams.

I think we have to get real about the trade - it wasn't good.

Gasol has been OK. Not terrible, not great, but JV coming off the bench gave the raps an edge over the other teams. Hard to trade a guy who's young and having a career year.

aman_13
03-26-2019, 12:48 AM
JV just had another monster game and completely dominated Steven Adams.

I think we have to get real about the trade - it wasn't good.

Gasol has been OK. Not terrible, not great, but JV coming off the bench gave the raps an edge over the other teams. Hard to trade a guy who's young and having a career year.

They lost the trade on paper but Gasol gives them that much needed playmaking the elite teams like the Warriors get from the 4 or 5. He changes the offense and makes them less predictable. The Raptors have significantly increased their assist percentage since the trade and are now actually starting to look for him to create.

As long he's stretching teams out with his 3 point shooting, playing decent defense (sometimes really good) and creating for others, he gives the Raptors what they have been missing for years from that position.



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Rivera
03-26-2019, 09:09 AM
Gasol was traded for the playoffs. We will know the true value for the Raps come playoff time. People forget the game slows down come playoff time and teams are forced to run more halfcourt sets. This is where Gasol can shine. Hes a better team defender than JV, hes a better passer than JV, and I believe hes a better screen setter than JV.

Before I call Gasol completley washed, I need to see him for why he was brought in. JV cannot create or pass from the high post like Gasol can. Gasol in the high post opens up the floor way more for Toronto than JV did and granted, JV did get better as a shooter but their skills sets are not equal and their roles on the floor are not equal

aman_13
03-26-2019, 04:25 PM
Gasol was traded for the playoffs. We will know the true value for the Raps come playoff time. People forget the game slows down come playoff time and teams are forced to run more halfcourt sets. This is where Gasol can shine. Hes a better team defender than JV, hes a better passer than JV, and I believe hes a better screen setter than JV.

Before I call Gasol completley washed, I need to see him for why he was brought in. JV cannot create or pass from the high post like Gasol can. Gasol in the high post opens up the floor way more for Toronto than JV did and granted, JV did get better as a shooter but their skills sets are not equal and their roles on the floor are not equal+1

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Chronz
03-26-2019, 08:12 PM
What exactly are you guys expecting from Gasol this post season? Team wise, individually? Cuz Im not gonna lie, this is giving me wierd Zubac for stretch-5 vibes

aman_13
03-26-2019, 08:49 PM
What exactly are you guys expecting from Gasol this post season? Team wise, individually? Cuz Im not gonna lie, this is giving me wierd Zubac for stretch-5 vibes

I think he's already showing it. The Raptors are cutting and moving without the ball more than before. The turnovers have actually increased because they are so pass happy. The Raptors have been critisized for years because they play a predictable style of basketball and because they over rely on the backcourt. The offense is as diversified as i can remember. I think fans look at his counting stats and think he's not producing or not contributing but he's made a difference. The rebounding concerns are fair though.

aman_13
03-31-2019, 05:35 PM
Got this from another board but i thought i share this here for discussion purposes.

Here are where the Raps rank when Gasol is on the court:

114.8 ortg (1st)
102.0 drtg (1st)
12.8 net rtg (1st)
68.2 ast% (1st)
59.0 efg% (1st)
62.1 TS% (1st)
50.2 fg% (1st)
42.4 3fg% (1st)

Chronz
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Got this from another board but i thought i share this here for discussion purposes.

Here are where the Raps rank when Gasol is on the court:

114.8 ortg (1st)
102.0 drtg (1st)
12.8 net rtg (1st)
68.2 ast% (1st)
59.0 efg% (1st)
62.1 TS% (1st)
50.2 fg% (1st)
42.4 3fg% (1st)
Good lord you guys might be right. Win win trade ?

zn23
03-31-2019, 08:07 PM
Got this from another board but i thought i share this here for discussion purposes.

Here are where the Raps rank when Gasol is on the court:

114.8 ortg (1st)
102.0 drtg (1st)
12.8 net rtg (1st)
68.2 ast% (1st)
59.0 efg% (1st)
62.1 TS% (1st)
50.2 fg% (1st)
42.4 3fg% (1st)

Interesting....

IndyRealist
03-31-2019, 08:37 PM
Got this from another board but i thought i share this here for discussion purposes.

Here are where the Raps rank when Gasol is on the court:

114.8 ortg (1st)
102.0 drtg (1st)
12.8 net rtg (1st)
68.2 ast% (1st)
59.0 efg% (1st)
62.1 TS% (1st)
50.2 fg% (1st)
42.4 3fg% (1st)

While those numbers are accurate, I'm confused as to where the rank comes from? Are they comparing -only- when Gasol is on the floor vs. other teams' whole game averages, including when they play bench players? Regardless, they seem to be better with Gasol on the floor, which is really the only takeaway from this. I don't know how that compares to when JV was there.

Jamiecballer
03-31-2019, 09:09 PM
Quality of competition should be considered too. We have played through an insanely easy portion of our schedule for the same time period.

And yeah the rank does require explains

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aman_13
03-31-2019, 11:15 PM
While those numbers are accurate, I'm confused as to where the rank comes from? Are they comparing -only- when Gasol is on the floor vs. other teams' whole game averages, including when they play bench players? Regardless, they seem to be better with Gasol on the floor, which is really the only takeaway from this. I don't know how that compares to when JV was there.

He's been starting recently but yes there is missing information. However, they have looked noticablly better as Gasol has gotten more comfortable. They are almost running their entire offense through him and it is looking as balanced and diversified as i can remember. Gasol's passing makes them very unpredictable. He's also improved a lot on the other end.

aman_13
03-31-2019, 11:17 PM
Good lord you guys might be right. Win win trade ?

I think so.

aman_13
03-31-2019, 11:21 PM
Quality of competition should be considered too. We have played through an insanely easy portion of our schedule for the same time period.

And yeah the rank does require explains

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I thought he looked quiet impressive against OKC even when he wasn't scoring. Honestly, i'm just amazed at how quickly they have changed their offense and is it any coincidence that their three point shooting has considerabbly improved since the AS break? I think part of it has to do with the looks they are getting and the manner in which they are getting them.

Jamiecballer
04-01-2019, 02:31 PM
I thought he looked quiet impressive against OKC even when he wasn't scoring. Honestly, i'm just amazed at how quickly they have changed their offense and is it any coincidence that their three point shooting has considerabbly improved since the AS break? I think part of it has to do with the looks they are getting and the manner in which they are getting them.Yeah, I agree. My reticence over this move centered mainly on how he would be used, I didnt see them using him as effectively as they are now doing offensively. I thought they would waste his passing and that has nor been the case

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R. Johnson#3
04-01-2019, 03:07 PM
I thought he looked quiet impressive against OKC even when he wasn't scoring. Honestly, i'm just amazed at how quickly they have changed their offense and is it any coincidence that their three point shooting has considerabbly improved since the AS break? I think part of it has to do with the looks they are getting and the manner in which they are getting them.

I agree. It definitely took a little while but he's settled in nicely. He's definitely not the rebounder or inside scorer that JV is but his passing and playmaking has done so much for everyone else. When Gasol does a pick and pop we always have cutters now. If he attacks and the help comes he usually finds the kick out. With JV you just had to close out and not bite on his pump fake.