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View Full Version : Where would a healthy Brandon Roy have ranked these past few years?



Chronz
03-03-2019, 08:32 PM
Been binging on old school hoops(2K era) lately and I revisited the series between the Rockets and Blazers. Back when Ron Artest and Shane Battier used to tag team every teams opposing star swing and Roy still lit them up. During this series Metta named Roy the best he'd ever played against. Kobe once named him as the only other guy with as complete of an offensive game as him.

Anyone else feel as tho there was a time between the Kobe/Wade-Harden reign where he would have had his crack at the leagues best SG? Oddly enough, Roy was the first guy Daryl Morey targeted as the GM(assistant?) of the Rockets, when Roy went to Portland they traded the pick (Rudy Gay) for Shane Battier and went all in on a rapidly deteriorating core


I might be underselling Wade here but lets review Roy's finest seasons before the injuries;

Wins ROY playing behind a young Z-Bo in Yr.1.
Makes All-Star game Y2 while leading the Blazers to respectability in the West (41Wins). And then...


2008-09 Season (Age 24): 54 Wins, leagues slowest offense yet its most efficient(cant think of too many combinations like that) and Roy becomes an All-NBA Second teamer(Kobe and Wade made first team) averaging 23-5-5 with 123 O-RTG(in a league with an average of 108). 24 PER and .223WS/48 to boot.

This is what I like to think of as his baseline once he enters his prime which usually comes around ages 27-31 imo.

His 2010 Season was when the injuries first began to surface, he still had a fine season(50Wins) but his production and recognition were both down a peg from the year prior(All-NBA3rd Team), making matters worse was the poor chemistry between he and Andre Miller (Roy demanded more touches at some point). By the time the playoffs came around Roy's knees were wrecked. His 2011 season was subpar but he had that 1 memorable game against the eventual champion Mavs where he willed his team to a win in ways neither Kobe nor LeBron could that post season.






So lets start from 2011, lets say he comes back strong, the team won 48 games with a ****** version of him, fair to bump that back up to peak levels? Rose wins MVP this year, prolly no stopping that given the strong narrative but could Roy have made it interesting? Kobe made first team, Wade and Manu are the only other SG who made an All-NBA team, I think its fair to say both Wade and Kobe rank higher still but the gap is closing...



2012: instead of retiring, hes entering his best days. Here are the guys hes competing against for best SG;
Kobe: 1st Teamer, production below Roy's baseline

Wade: 3rd teamer, Champion, production superior to Roy's baseline.

James Harden (6MOY, insanely efficient production and posted 29-5-5(per36) in his time without RWB(31-5-6 without KD). I feel like this season gets underrated because he roasted benches but it was still historic and a harbinger of things to come.


Prolly still behind one of them.




2013 is when it gets interesting, Kobe has his final good season, playing in a D'Antoni-ish system for much of the year allowed him to have abit of a bounce back season individually before bursting his achilles. Makes All-NBA 1st team for his troubles.

Wade continues to see his health decline but has strong/comparable numbers still, has one final championship run in him and makes All-NBA 3rd Team for the last time.

Harden gets his own team and interestingly enough posts very similar numbers at roughly the same stages as Roy had in his breakout (slight advtantage in Roys favor IMO). Harden makes an All-NBA 3rd team but goes on to shoot 39% against a RWB-less OKC team in the playoffs.

I think this year comes down to Wade and Roy personally.



2014
Kobe is gone. Wade remains an All-Star but one that is done winning anything else of note. Outside of Harden (who essentially replicates his season from the year prior) only a young(24) DeRozen enters the conversation making his first All-Star game. This one goes easily to a still only 29 year old Roy.



2015 and '16
Ditto as the year above only Harden sees a pretty big uptick in production, above Roy's baseline. Jimmy Butler and Klay Thompson officially arrive. From here on out it really depends on how you think Roy would have continued to grow with the league but I think hes clearly the best these 3 years.


Harden was unlocked under D'Antoni to where I think its safe to say hes the best after 2017 but then I remember his poor playoff showing and I think we could even hold out to 2018.





Thoughts on if Roy could have achieved that status as the games best SG, maybe win an MVP or was he pretty much capped out at 24 years old?

GREATNESS ONE
03-03-2019, 09:29 PM
4th best SG ever right ahead of Harden :p

Redrum187
03-05-2019, 12:08 PM
I've always been a ROY fan, but absolutely not. It's not really even close for me.

Hawkeye15
03-05-2019, 12:26 PM
yeah his trajectory and his abilities would have made him probably the best combo guard in the game potentially. While he was older for a "young guy", I think his room to grow was still there because he never relied on explosiveness.

I personally feel he would have been an MVP candidate, yes. And more complete than Harden.

ewing
03-05-2019, 12:30 PM
The defenses would have gotten waaay to complicated for him


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Chronz
03-05-2019, 02:13 PM
So that's 2 outta 3 that say better than harden. Like wayyyy better ?

TakeYourL
03-05-2019, 02:29 PM
Roy was one of my favorite players, his game was so clean and pretty.

Hawkeye15
03-05-2019, 02:53 PM
So that's 2 outta 3 that say better than harden. Like wayyyy better ?

Come playoffs, yes. Defensively, Roy wasn't very good, but he was better than Harden. He was also seemingly better in tight situations. I think he was a better leader as well. Harden is a scoring machine that attracts a lot of attention, but when the whistle tightens up in the playoffs, his game goes downward.

Oefarmy2005
03-05-2019, 03:18 PM
Well, you have players like Roy who are average athletically but have a ridiculous work ethic and have to hang it up after a few years due to injury. On the other hand, you have players like Wiggins who have incredible god given athleticism and do nothing with it(except making the Wolves an even bigger embarrassment from the FO stand point). I Roy would have been really good. Like really, really good. I doubt he would have been as good of a scorer as Harden, but I also think he would have had a much better +/- and overall impact in the win column. I think it's very close between him and Wade and Harden is a bit of a step down form both.

Hawkeye15
03-05-2019, 04:14 PM
Well, you have players like Roy who are average athletically but have a ridiculous work ethic and have to hang it up after a few years due to injury. On the other hand, you have players like Wiggins who have incredible god given athleticism and do nothing with it(except making the Wolves an even bigger embarrassment from the FO stand point). I Roy would have been really good. Like really, really good. I doubt he would have been as good of a scorer as Harden, but I also think he would have had a much better +/- and overall impact in the win column. I think it's very close between him and Wade and Harden is a bit of a step down form both.

Roy had the athletic ability of "feel". It's hard to describe, but you know what I mean. The ability to understand body positioning, how your man is directing his weight, etc. When Roy was able to get a man on his hip, he pinned him, and was able to create space off pure instinct. He was strong too, absorbing contact well while keeping control. He didn't perfect his craft due to injury, but would have likely shot more FT's, and been able to take advantage of the open lanes in his later 20's.

Plus the dude was awesome in clutch time.

I agree, not the scorer Harden is, but overall I think he elevates his teammates more, his game translates to the playoffs better, and he defends better.

ewing
03-05-2019, 11:15 PM
Roy had the athletic ability of "feel". It's hard to describe, but you know what I mean. The ability to understand body positioning, how your man is directing his weight, etc. When Roy was able to get a man on his hip, he pinned him, and was able to create space off pure instinct. He was strong too, absorbing contact well while keeping control. He didn't perfect his craft due to injury, but would have likely shot more FT's, and been able to take advantage of the open lanes in his later 20's.

Plus the dude was awesome in clutch time.

I agree, not the scorer Harden is, but overall I think he elevates his teammates more, his game translates to the playoffs better, and he defends better.

I agree and will go a step further . I think his athletic ability as a whole was underrated bc he like most guys with great “feel” he made things look easy a lot


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aman_13
03-05-2019, 11:51 PM
He was so special. We missed out on a potential hall of fame career.

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Hawkeye15
03-06-2019, 01:05 PM
I agree and will go a step further . I think his athletic ability as a whole was underrated bc he like most guys with great “feel” he made things look easy a lot


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well we totally discard what we can't measure when it comes to athletic ability. Part of why a combine is ridiculous to me. Cool if a guy can jump 47". Can he feel a guy on his hip about to go with him? Cause James Harden can, and you WILL foul him, and he can't jump 30"..

"feel" got Rod Strickland and Sam Cassell success.

valade16
03-08-2019, 12:09 AM
This thread makes me sad.

GREATNESS ONE
03-08-2019, 12:16 AM
This thread makes me sad.

:laugh2: I was waiting for your response!

Hawkeye15
03-08-2019, 03:12 PM
This thread makes me sad.

I think of you anytime I post about Blazers misfortunes.