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Chronz
03-01-2019, 01:58 PM
Been seeing this argument about trans equality come up alot, mostly within the LGBTQ community itself or my leftist friends, prison charges and restroom controversy but it's becoming a talking point in athletics too. Been seeing the collegiate memes of men dominating women but apparently this martina navratilova chick has come under fire for her allegedly transphobic stance. Now we here at psd are beyond such accusatory behavior, so without getting political, let's discuss the pros and cons.

Possible pros. The league gets more exciting and might actually become profitable with juwanna mann.

Possible cons. League gets fuglier.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2019, 02:51 PM
Nope. We should not. I continue to slide left as I age, but sports is something totally different to me. Men are simply physically more capable in nearly every sport there is. So unless we want women's sports to disappear, we need to keep men out, regardless of whether they identify, or change to women.

tp13baby
03-01-2019, 03:03 PM
No. I have nothing against transgender or whatever you want to identify as. No soul would have ever thought we would get to this point where you can identify as you want. I am okay with that. Identify as you want, but boy/girl female/male when it comes to organizations/sports I do believe this needs to fall in line of sex. Not gender. The bodies are wired different, men have testosterone in large amounts important for muscle. Estrogen vs testosterone is an unfair advantage. In sports you aren’t aloud to increase hormones to give you an advantage. So why is it fair when someone else has an advantage with testosterone and someone else has estrogen. It’s not.

Htownballa1622
03-01-2019, 03:18 PM
Pretty simple.

"That's going to be a no for me dawg."- Randy Jackson voice.

ewing
03-01-2019, 03:27 PM
Sure. the league is awful. it won't get better any other way

Alayla
03-01-2019, 03:49 PM
for me it depends how early they started hormone treatments if they where on blockers 13 or younger there really isn't a reason not to allow them. But if they fully developed as male then tranisitioned like 18-25 etc etc or even later then they do fundimentally have an advantage.

ewing
03-01-2019, 03:52 PM
for me it depends how early they started hormone treatments if they where on blockers 13 or younger there really isn't a reason not to allow them. But if they fully developed as male then tranisitioned like 18-25 etc etc or even later then they do fundimentally have an advantage.

Thanks Alayla. Do other sports organizations use qualifies like this now?


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Redrum187
03-01-2019, 04:07 PM
We don't change organized sports to fit around people with mental disorders. As others have mentioned, it's highly unfair for a genetic male who identifies as female to compete against a sis female. More importantly, we aren't addressing the root of the problem (the transgender's mental disorder)... we would only continue to change facts/science to match up with their delusion. Mental health is a huge problem in the United States and I hope one day we stop pretending/chopping body parts off and start actually trying to treat people with these kinds of conditions.

ewing
03-01-2019, 04:08 PM
We don't change organized sports to fit around people with mental disorders. As others have mentioned, it's highly unfair for a genetic male who identifies as female to compete against a sis female. More importantly, we aren't addressing the root of the problem (the transgender's mental disorder)... we would only continue to change facts/science to match up with their delusion. Mental health is a huge problem in the United States and I hope one day we stop pretending/chopping body parts off and start actually trying to treat people with these kinds of problems.

If I was trans I would not want you treating me

Scoots
03-01-2019, 04:14 PM
This seems a simple thing but the determination of who should or should not qualify for female sports is incredibly difficult and there is no concrete answer yet.

That said, a former male is going to have an unfair advantage and will be excluded if the objective is a level playing field for women, and other than for marketing purposes is almost certain to be.

Redrum187
03-01-2019, 04:19 PM
If I was trans I would not want you treating me

Because I wouldn't go along with your delusion just as I wouldn't go along and confirm someone is really hearing phantom voices? One of the fundamental principles of treating people with mental disorders is to not confirm their delusion. That isn't treating, that is straight up abuse.

Redrum187
03-01-2019, 04:29 PM
I don't think many people are capable of seeing the load of hypocrisy within this subject.

Many people believe that if a genetic male identifies as a female, then they are a female and should not be treated any differently than a sis female. If you subscribe to that ideology, then having a physical advantage is an IRRELEVANT excuse to disqualify a trans from playing professional sports. I mean, look at sis males... I'm only 6'2 and not extremely athletic while Giannis is damn near 7'0 and extremely athletic.

If you're fighting for "equality" then it's not a matter of "equal results" but a matter of "equal opportunity". I had the same equal opportunity to join the NBA but I never tried as I knew I wouldn't be good enough. So if you believe trans are no different than the sis people they identify as you cannot use that excuse. If the merits of a genetic male who identifies as female are good enough to get him in the WNBA then they should have the right to play in that league.

R. Johnson#3
03-01-2019, 04:42 PM
Nope.

I'll call a he a she and vice versa but there are physical differences between men and women. In general men are bigger than women. The athletic men can carry much more mass than the athletic women. If you're a man who feels like a woman I'll accept that but you were still given a mans body.

R. Johnson#3
03-01-2019, 04:58 PM
We don't change organized sports to fit around people with mental disorders. As others have mentioned, it's highly unfair for a genetic male who identifies as female to compete against a sis female. More importantly, we aren't addressing the root of the problem (the transgender's mental disorder)... we would only continue to change facts/science to match up with their delusion. Mental health is a huge problem in the United States and I hope one day we stop pretending/chopping body parts off and start actually trying to treat people with these kinds of conditions.

I strongly disagree with what I've bolded here. Look no further than homosexuality which was considered a mental disorder up until 1987. There's a reason the gay community embraces the trans community the way that they do. There's never really been a whole lot of attention on transgender people up until recently so there isn't a whole lot of knowledge or understanding amongst the masses besides it being a mental disorder.

Over the past year and a bit I've become friends with a transgender woman and I can say with confidence that it's not a mental disorder. You learn a lot more from speaking to people than you do from studies on them.

valade16
03-01-2019, 05:01 PM
If a Trans person tried to play in the WNBA it would be more exposure and media coverage for the WNBA than they'd ever had. They probably don't want someone playing in the WNBA, but their marketers do want them to try.

ewing
03-01-2019, 05:35 PM
Because I wouldn't go along with your delusion just as I wouldn't go along and confirm someone is really hearing phantom voices? One of the fundamental principles of treating people with mental disorders is to not confirm their delusion. That isn't treating, that is straight up abuse.

What is a “mental disorder”?


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Hawkeye15
03-01-2019, 05:42 PM
What is a “mental disorder”?


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liking the Knicks or Wolves for sure

Redrum187
03-01-2019, 05:45 PM
I strongly disagree with what I've bolded here. Look no further than homosexuality which was considered a mental disorder up until 1987. There's a reason the gay community embraces the trans community the way that they do. There's never really been a whole lot of attention on transgender people up until recently so there isn't a whole lot of knowledge or understanding amongst the masses besides it being a mental disorder.

Over the past year and a bit I've become friends with a transgender woman and I can say with confidence that it's not a mental disorder. You learn a lot more from speaking to people than you do from studies on them.

It's really impossible to compare homosexuality with transgenderism. Homosexuality is in reference to someone's sexual preference while transgenderism is when a person's mind is disconnected/not consistent with their genetic sex. We can use science to determine if someone is male or female but there is no "gay gene".

Furthermore, not all mental disorders are the same. There is a negative stigma that everyone with a mental disorder must be crazy. Transgendered people are not crazy... the people going along with it and the people chopping body parts off to "treat" this mental condition are the crazy ones and they aren't the ones with the mental disorder. Many people with mental disorders are capable of living relatively normal lives... in fact, after 25 years of being friends with someone they finally told me they have body dysmorphia. No one in our circle of friends would have ever of guessed.

Dade County
03-01-2019, 07:05 PM
Been seeing this argument about trans equality come up alot, mostly within the LGBTQ community itself or my leftist friends, prison charges and restroom controversy but it's becoming a talking point in athletics too. Been seeing the collegiate memes of men dominating women but apparently this martina navratilova chick has come under fire for her allegedly transphobic stance. Now we here at psd are beyond such accusatory behavior, so without getting political, let's discuss the pros and cons.

Possible pros. The league gets more exciting and might actually become profitable with juwanna mann.

Possible cons. League gets fuglier.

No! Men possessed by demons should not be playing against women in athletic sports. This act, behavior, and movement, is the work of the devil and his followers. (Also look into the food, drinks and drugs most people consume (use), and whats happening to are DNA...etc)

James 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

ewing
03-01-2019, 07:22 PM
liking the Knicks or Wolves for sure

Definitely


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IndyRealist
03-01-2019, 08:55 PM
There is a transgender fighter in MMA, Fallon Fox. Any arguments you have about being physically superior in basketball are laughable by comparison. The argument for/against transgender pro athletes will not be decided in the WNBA.

GREATNESS ONE
03-01-2019, 09:00 PM
I mean we have them on PSD, I say fair game for all!!!!

Lakers + Giants
03-01-2019, 09:05 PM
Was about to mention juwanna mann til I saw you included that in your post. lmao.

R. Johnson#3
03-01-2019, 09:06 PM
It's really impossible to compare homosexuality with transgenderism. Homosexuality is in reference to someone's sexual preference while transgenderism is when a person's mind is disconnected/not consistent with their genetic sex. We can use science to determine if someone is male or female but there is no "gay gene".

Furthermore, not all mental disorders are the same. There is a negative stigma that everyone with a mental disorder must be crazy. Transgendered people are not crazy... the people going along with it and the people chopping body parts off to "treat" this mental condition are the crazy ones and they aren't the ones with the mental disorder. Many people with mental disorders are capable of living relatively normal lives... in fact, after 25 years of being friends with someone they finally told me they have body dysmorphia. No one in our circle of friends would have ever of guessed.

If a man thought he was attracted to another man he was deemed to have a mental disorder.

If a man has a penis but feels like a woman he's deemed to have a mental disorder.

There, I did it.

Science says you need a penis and vagina to make life. Homosexuality makes people interested in the same genitalia. Science says if you have a penis you're a man. Transgenderism makes you feel like you might be a woman in a mans body. Considering homosexuality goes against science and the idea of pro creation would you classify that as a mental disorder as well?

Transgenderism much like homosexuality can't be defined by anything physical.

Cracka2HI!
03-01-2019, 09:09 PM
Trans women are still men athletically. Men should not be able to compete in women's sports.

IndyRealist
03-01-2019, 09:09 PM
Let's cut through all the pseudoscience BS, and maybe ask an expert?

On Fallon Fox:

Eric Vilain, the director of the Institute For Society And Genetics at UCLA, worked with the Association of Boxing Commissions when they wrote their policy on transgender athletes. He stated in Time magazine that "Male to female transsexuals have significantly less muscle strength and bone density, and higher fat mass, than males"[11] and said that, to be licensed, transgender female fighters must undergo complete "surgical anatomical changes ..., including external genitalia and gonadectomy and subsequently a minimum of two years of hormone replacement therapy, administered by a board certified specialist. In general concurrence with peer-reviewed scientific literature,[18] he states this to be "the current understanding of the minimum amount of time necessary to obviate male hormone gender related advantages in sports competition". Vilain reviewed Fox's medical records and said she has "clearly fulfilled all conditions."[2] When asked if Fox could, nonetheless, be stronger than her competitors, Vilain replied that it was possible, but noted that "sports is made up of competitors who, by definition, have advantages for all kinds of genetics reasons".[11] Fox herself responded to the controversy with an analogy comparing herself to Jackie Robinson in a guest editorial for a UFC and MMA news website:[19]

Has anybody ever watched the movie 42? Remember when commentators said Jackie Robinson had an unfair advantage because black people had "larger heel bones" than the white men he was competing with? Are we repeating history yet again with bogus bone claims? Can we couple these bogus claims with Rogan's horrible language that was aimed at me from the video I put out last week? I'm a transgender woman. I deserve equal treatment and respect to other types of women. I feel that all of this is so ridiculously unnecessary and horribly mean spirited.

Redrum187
03-01-2019, 09:43 PM
If a man thought he was attracted to another man he was deemed to have a mental disorder.

If you think you're attracted to one sex, then you are... We all know why homosexuality has been vilified. We can use science and nature to show sexual attraction and mental health are completely unrelated. Don't get real science mixed with yesteryear's fake science.


If a man has a penis but feels like a woman he's deemed to have a mental disorder.

There, I did it.

Yes, because the brain doesn't match up with his genetic sex. There is a disconnect. This more often than not creates what they call "gender dysphoria" which needs to be properly treated... not by other people pretending/confirming their delusion or by chopping off body parts.


Science says you need a penis and vagina to make life. Homosexuality makes people interested in the same genitalia. Science says if you have a penis you're a man. Transgenderism makes you feel like you might be a woman in a mans body. Considering homosexuality goes against science and the idea of pro creation would you classify that as a mental disorder as well?

Who says homosexuality goes against science? How does it? Homosexuality goes against procreation... but not against science. Sexual preference has as much to do with science as liking Dr. Pepper over Coca-Cola.

Furthermore, something can "go against procreation" but it still has absolutely nothing to do with having a mental disorder. If you get a vasectomy, you will no longer be able to have children. Does that mean you now have a "mental disorder"?

Your arguments are not very well thought out. No offense...


Transgenderism much like homosexuality can't be defined by anything physical.

What are you talking about. It is absolutely defined... If someone says they are female but have XY chromosomes, then we know there is something wrong here. Either the person is lying or the person genuinely thinks they are a female. We can use science to verify this.

Silent
03-01-2019, 10:17 PM
Pretty simple.

"That's going to be a no for me dawg."- Randy Jackson voice.


^

blams
03-02-2019, 01:42 AM
If you think you're attracted to one sex, then you are... We all know why homosexuality has been vilified. We can use science and nature to show sexual attraction and mental health are completely unrelated. Don't get real science mixed with yesteryear's fake science.



Yes, because the brain doesn't match up with his genetic sex. There is a disconnect. This more often than not creates what they call "gender dysphoria" which needs to be properly treated... not by other people pretending/confirming their delusion or by chopping off body parts.



Who says homosexuality goes against science? How does it? Homosexuality goes against procreation... but not against science. Sexual preference has as much to do with science as liking Dr. Pepper over Coca-Cola.

Furthermore, something can "go against procreation" but it still has absolutely nothing to do with having a mental disorder. If you get a vasectomy, you will no longer be able to have children. Does that mean you now have a "mental disorder"?

Your arguments are not very well thought out. No offense...



What are you talking about. It is absolutely defined... If someone says they are female but have XY chromosomes, then we know there is something wrong here. Either the person is lying or the person genuinely thinks they are a female. We can use science to verify this.Sex is biological while gender is a social construct.

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Scoots
03-02-2019, 11:50 AM
Let's cut through all the pseudoscience BS, and maybe ask an expert?

On Fallon Fox:

And women are being excluded from some women's sports because their bodies produce more or less of some chemicals. There is no "final" answer yet, there may never been a single answer that works for everybody.

ewing
03-02-2019, 11:57 AM
And women are being excluded from some women's sports because their bodies produce more or less of some chemicals. There is no "final" answer yet, there may never been a single answer that works for everybody.

I agree with this. I definitely think those born male (producing T like males do etc) have an unfair advantage in sports but transgender issues in general are something not fully understood right now. Unfortunately, for some reason when we don't understand something fully people often gravitate to having a hard line on things.

R. Johnson#3
03-02-2019, 05:47 PM
If you think you're attracted to one sex, then you are... We all know why homosexuality has been vilified. We can use science and nature to show sexual attraction and mental health are completely unrelated. Don't get real science mixed with yesteryear's fake science.

Over time people gain understanding. It's not that it was "fake science" it's that nobody really understood homosexuality. Decades ago it was just deemed a mental disorder and that was that. Much like transgenderism has been up until recently. I feel like you're missing my point.




Yes, because the brain doesn't match up with his genetic sex. There is a disconnect. This more often than not creates what they call "gender dysphoria" which needs to be properly treated... not by other people pretending/confirming their delusion or by chopping off body parts.

This is where I bring up my friend who is a perfectly happy transgender woman. She hasn't gotten the surgery but she takes hormones and goes by a woman's name. This is not a disease. From what she's told me she felt confused and unsure of herself when she was a man. She dealt with depression and felt isolated from her peers. What's changed all of that is her taking hormones and acting like a woman. She hasn't chopped off her dick but yes, she takes hormones and wants to be referred to as a woman. The only thing I've seen negatively affect her is when people go out of their way to call her a man. I've seen people misgender her by accident, apologize immediately and she was fine with it. If this is a disease (which I don't believe it is) then the proper treatment is just to treat them as the gender they'd like to be treated. None of this ze/xe ******** though.




Who says homosexuality goes against science? How does it? Homosexuality goes against procreation... but not against science. Sexual preference has as much to do with science as liking Dr. Pepper over Coca-Cola.

Furthermore, something can "go against procreation" but it still has absolutely nothing to do with having a mental disorder. If you get a vasectomy, you will no longer be able to have children. Does that mean you now have a "mental disorder"?

Humans are made to pro create. Science says to pro create you need a penis and a vagina. Homosexuality urges men against the natural way of things. Science says if you have a penis you're a man. Transgenderism urges biological men against the natural way of things. They're both mental and not physical.

There was a time when people treated homosexuality the same way you're treating transgenderism. I urge you to actually talk to a transgender person. You'll learn a whole lot if you can resist your urge to look down on them.

Your vasectomy example is moot. A vasectomy is a choice while being transgender is not. Even if you want to call it a mental disorder, you don't get to choose to have a mental disorder.




What are you talking about. It is absolutely defined... If someone says they are female but have XY chromosomes, then we know there is something wrong here. Either the person is lying or the person genuinely thinks they are a female. We can use science to verify this.

There's nothing wrong, they're just transgender.

If a guy wants to bang another guy then we know something is wrong there. Science says humans pro create and to do that you need a penis and a vagina. Either that guy is lying or that guy genuinely wants to bang another guy. We can use science to verify this.

ewing
03-03-2019, 01:25 AM
Over time people gain understanding. It's not that it was "fake science" it's that nobody really understood homosexuality. Decades ago it was just deemed a mental disorder and that was that. Much like transgenderism has been up until recently. I feel like you're missing my point.





This is where I bring up my friend who is a perfectly happy transgender woman. She hasn't gotten the surgery but she takes hormones and goes by a woman's name. This is not a disease. From what she's told me she felt confused and unsure of herself when she was a man. She dealt with depression and felt isolated from her peers. What's changed all of that is her taking hormones and acting like a woman. She hasn't chopped off her dick but yes, she takes hormones and wants to be referred to as a woman. The only thing I've seen negatively affect her is when people go out of their way to call her a man. I've seen people misgender her by accident, apologize immediately and she was fine with it. If this is a disease (which I don't believe it is) then the proper treatment is just to treat them as the gender they'd like to be treated. None of this ze/xe ******** though.





Humans are made to pro create. Science says to pro create you need a penis and a vagina. Homosexuality urges men against the natural way of things. Science says if you have a penis you're a man. Transgenderism urges biological men against the natural way of things. They're both mental and not physical.

There was a time when people treated homosexuality the same way you're treating transgenderism. I urge you to actually talk to a transgender person. You'll learn a whole lot if you can resist your urge to look down on them.

Your vasectomy example is moot. A vasectomy is a choice while being transgender is not. Even if you want to call it a mental disorder, you don't get to choose to have a mental disorder.





There's nothing wrong, they're just transgender.

If a guy wants to bang another guy then we know something is wrong there. Science says humans pro create and to do that you need a penis and a vagina. Either that guy is lying or that guy genuinely wants to bang another guy. We can use science to verify this.

Your heart is a good place [emoji106]


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Redrum187
03-03-2019, 02:34 AM
Over time people gain understanding. It's not that it was "fake science" it's that nobody really understood homosexuality. Decades ago it was just deemed a mental disorder and that was that. Much like transgenderism has been up until recently. I feel like you're missing my point.

It was absolutely fake science. Homosexuality has been culturally blasted in America. Religion gave people a reason to act on their disgust with homosexuals. I don't disagree people genuinely thought it was a mental disorder, but it simply doesn't fit any of the criteria of one whatsoever. There wasn't an ounce of logical reasoning or science to back that claim up as there is with transgender people having a mental disorder.

"Scientists" and psychologists back then, pertaining to homosexuality, tried to make science conform to their beliefs, not the other way around. Being objective means we base our conclusions off of the results we experience even if it's contrary to our hypothesis. They didn't do it then, and you aren't doing it now.

A perfect example of how people (not just in American culture either) detested homosexuality and couldn't be objective about it is arguably the biggest hero of the 20th century, Alan Turing. He ultimately cracked the enigma which allowed the allies in WWII to save hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) yet he was not given the recognition for it when he was alive. In fact, he was prosecuted for being gay...


This is where I bring up my friend who is a perfectly happy transgender woman. She hasn't gotten the surgery but she takes hormones and goes by a woman's name. This is not a disease. From what she's told me she felt confused and unsure of herself when she was a man. She dealt with depression and felt isolated from her peers. What's changed all of that is her taking hormones and acting like a woman. She hasn't chopped off her dick but yes, she takes hormones and wants to be referred to as a woman. The only thing I've seen negatively affect her is when people go out of their way to call her a man. I've seen people misgender her by accident, apologize immediately and she was fine with it. If this is a disease (which I don't believe it is) then the proper treatment is just to treat them as the gender they'd like to be treated. None of this ze/xe ******** though.

When are you and other people going to see that just because someone appears to be happy doesn't mean they don't have a mental disorder? I brought up my friend, who by all accounts appeared to be 100% mentally healthy, but recently disclosed she has body dysmorphia. Are you saying because she appears perfectly happy and healthy, she too doesn't have a mental disorder? Is body dysmorphia not considered a mental disorder now? Being "happy" doesn't make the phantom voices a schizophrenic person believes they hear real... they still have a mental disorder. My friend being wicked gorgeous and outside of her perception of her own body is relatively happy... she's successful... amazing social skills... extremely lovable. That doesn't take away from the fact she has a mental disorder.

I ask that you reconsider 2 points you adamantly believe in: 1.) If you're happy you don't have a mental disorder. 2.) Going along with someone's delusions are good as long as the person with the mental disorder is "happy" in their false reality.


Humans are made to pro create. Science says to pro create you need a penis and a vagina. Homosexuality urges men against the natural way of things. Science says if you have a penis you're a man. Transgenderism urges biological men against the natural way of things. They're both mental and not physical.

Nature shows heterosexual urges are predominant but that homosexuality STILL occurs. Homosexuality is not "unnatural" in spite of making it impossible to procreate. You're arbitrarily assigning "procreation" as the standard for "science". In nature, a tiger and a lion can procreate and have a liger. The liger is, however, incapable of procreating. Science verifies this. Science doesn't show we "are created to procreate" but rather dictates the requirements in order to procreate. This is a huge and fundamental difference you aren't understanding. Stop inferring that because it takes a penis and a vagina to procreate that science says we were created to procreate.


There was a time when people treated homosexuality the same way you're treating transgenderism. I urge you to actually talk to a transgender person. You'll learn a whole lot if you can resist your urge to look down on them.

Maybe you have the urge to look down on people with mental disorders... I mean, you reference your genetic male friend as a "she" which is abuse.... just as it's abuse to go along with a schizophrenic person's delusion that God really is telling them to drown their own children in the bath tub.

I have talked with a handful of transgendered people. They don't all agree with every point I make, but they are human beings and should not be avoided because they have a mental disorder.

You can keep trying to compare homosexuality with transgenderism but you have absolutely nothing to base it on other than fake science in a time when people persecuted homosexuals. Science says if you have XY chromosomes you are a male, if you have XX chromosomes you're a female... but you instead ignore science to fit your social agenda. You and the left wing would have us scribble and ignore that part of science out of existence because it doesn't fit your personal belief/agenda. It's no different than the supposed scientists of yesteryear ignoring the science that disproved homosexuals having mental disorders. They had a belief, science countered it and so they ignored it and allowed the persecution of homosexuals all because God says it's an abomination.


Your vasectomy example is moot. A vasectomy is a choice while being transgender is not. Even if you want to call it a mental disorder, you don't get to choose to have a mental disorder.

A vasectomy being a choice is moot. You tried making procreation the standard for having a mental disorder. No one even made the argument that "because homosexuals are incapable of producing, they have a mental disorder". You only further proved my point in that it was fake science. No one believes that today... or at least no one credible does. If there is a linkage between homosexuality and a mental disorder it has yet to be published. However, a 6th grader learns what a male and female is with real and definable scientific standards. Only now, a certain group of people are wanting to ignore that part or say the studies are "incomplete" because it doesn't back up their delusions. Sorry... as Ben Shapiro says, "FACTS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS."


There's nothing wrong, they're just transgender.

If a guy wants to bang another guy then we know something is wrong there. Science says humans pro create and to do that you need a penis and a vagina. Either that guy is lying or that guy genuinely wants to bang another guy. We can use science to verify this.

Alright... why is something wrong if a guy wants to bang another guy? Please... if you don't respond to anything else, respond to this... Why do you think nature and science believes everything must procreate when there are countless examples where this isn't the case? There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with two men wanting to bang... science doesn't give us morals... science explains things... how is it wrong then? Humans twist science to fit their own agenda... they did it back when homosexuals were prosecuted and now they are doing it when it comes to transgenders.

IndyRealist
03-03-2019, 12:31 PM
For something to be classified as a mental disorder, it has to adversely affect your ability to cope with everyday life. Being transgender is not classified as a mental disorder. If you say it is, then you are fundamentally wrong and every argument you make based on that assumption is also wrong.

Deviation from the norm is not inherently an illness.

Scoots
03-03-2019, 01:07 PM
I think the point, whatever it was, has been made. If you want to continue discussing it there are better places on PSD for it.